Crowds - The thread of Australian whining

Marquee
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8.2K
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about 17 years
Bluemagic wrote:
Tegal wrote:

Actually, I think if those things make someone who goes to all games lose interest (or that they hate it) then it's probably put a casual fan off more. 

During the 6 weeks with no games in wellington, even I lost interest. So I can only imagine how much interest a more casual fan would have lost. 

Now that we've had a fair few games in a row, I'm right back into it again. But then I looked at the schedule and there isn't another game for a month again, so that disappointed me again. Had a conversation with someone at work who had heard about a lot of nix games in welington, and the buzz of us winning. She asked when the next game was, I said a month and she said "damn, oh well" and lost interest immediately. 

I agree with this, I think the sporadic home games make people in Wellington feel disconnected from the team. Plus it seems to me that there's been no marketing for games in Wellington at all really. I saw a thread on the Nix's Facebook page asking why people aren't coming and a bunch of people said "it's too expensive" and the official Nix FB response was "but we had $10 tickets in the Huawei Bay last game and we still got a low crowd" and a bunch of people said "really? I never heard about that". I only saw it mentioned once on the Nix page and on here I think.


If I wasn't a season member and/or on here all the time I don't think I'd even know when home games were because there's f-all pregame media coverage and f-all advertising. And that's probably the people who aren't coming - people who would have an interest in coming to games but aren't going to seek out when and where games are. 

I get the feeling that the club have given up getting the crowds up in Wellington and are just trying to push the Eden Park game to make up the money. 

Look you're not going to fill Westpac stadium unless its a major playoff game so why not make it $10 sit anywhere. I know an Aucklander who went to your last game and said it cost $60 for tickets (and they were allocated) which is ridiculous considering the stadium was two thirds empty. By all accounts the security is often officious if you try to change seats. Make it cheaper and let people sit anywhere. Better more bums on seats for less charge.


Because it's already been shown that pricing isn't the only thing keeping people away.  In economic terms, it's no price elastic.  Far too simplistic to say make it cheap and people will flock to turn up
Tegal
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Head Sleuth
3K
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19K
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about 17 years

They would to a point. But it wouldn't necessarily increase gate revenues. 

Actually felt like they got the pricing about right this season (for season tickets anyway). Reevaluating that now though (and so will welnix)

But yeah it's fairly obvious that there are factors outside of price that affect attendance. Traditionally (I think) attendances tend to increase toward the end of the season as we play meaningful games. 

I will actually be interested to see what crowd numbers will be for the FFA cup (if we end up in it) as theoretically every game is meaningful, and as you progress through the cup, the games are perceived to be more and more meaningful. It'd provide a perfect example of how much attendance increases due to the importance of the game. 

Early retirement
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34K
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about 17 years

By no accounts is security officious.  I never use my seat.

Listen here Fudgeface
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over 14 years
Hard News wrote:

By no accounts is security officious.  I never use my seat.

You got told off for standing on a seat once...
Early retirement
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34K
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about 17 years

...and since then I've done it 3 times without a word.

Marquee
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almost 17 years
Leggy wrote:
ForteanTimes wrote:
Leggy wrote:
ForteanTimes wrote:
Leggy wrote:
[quote=Tegal]

Actually, I think if those things make someone who goes to all games lose interest (or that they hate it) then it's probably put a casual fan off more. 

During the 6 weeks with no games in wellington, even I lost interest. So I can only imagine how much interest a more casual fan would have lost. 

Now that we've had a fair few games in a row, I'm right back into it again. But then I looked at the schedule and there isn't another game for a month again, so that disappointed me again. Had a conversation with someone at work who had heard about a lot of nix games in welington, and the buzz of us winning. She asked when the next game was, I said a month and she said "damn, oh well" and lost interest immediately. 

[/quote

Obviously not real football supporters.



That's actually not fair. Leading a busy life influences how you relate to football. If football gets pushed to your periphery by games not being played at home than other things will come to the focus. Work, family, stress, illness can all take footballs' place pretty easily.




I lead a busy life but football  to me is the number thing ( apart from  my wife)  in my life. All the other things mentioned are part of life, but to me football is right up there. You are either a supporter or you are not.
One of my mates is a Spurs fan and last Sunday over a few beers I asked him when was the last time he watched a live game.
Answer--- I only watch the highlights. Real football supporter- I don't think so.


So how many times do you get to Old Trafford then this season?


Pretty stupid comment from someone that comes across as reasonably intelligent. I watch as many live games as possible plus I watch as many other games as I can. If I lived in Manchester ( thank God I don't) and could afford it, I would probably be one of the 75000 every game.

 

No your comment was daft and if you think it through you'll realise that.

So what qualifies a "real football supporter?"  What you really mean is supporting  a club rather than football in general as you alluded to Tegal not being a real supporter of the Nix cuse he got p*ssed off with the whole nightmare that was the first few months of the season. Even though he's been around for ever and still posted on here regularly during that time he was going a bit "meh".  The others are those casual Nix supporters who don't turn up to every  match.

So proper supporter:

1) Supports a football team through thick or thin?

2) Attends every home and away match they feasibly can?

3) Was born within spitting distance of the home ground?

0r my favorite:

4) Has played the game at some level, (insert the level played at as being the minimum need to be a real football supporter/understand the game).

I knew a Wolves fan who attended Phoenix matches during season one then lost interest partially due to finaces but I'm fairly sure that's resolved, but mainly as he thought the level of the football was so crap. Is he a real football supporter? Club supporter tick Yes for Wolves, he attended loads of matches when he lived in Wolverhampton. Footbal supporter? Big "x": cuse he wouldn't watch local football and support his local team. Hmm tricky...

 Those fans that went on to form FC United? They got frustrated with the Glaziers and formed a different football club rather than see out the Glaziers. Blimey that sort of puts Tegal's fug of a couple of weeks into persepective. Club supporter big "x". Football supporter possibly a big tick. Hmm tricky...

I've read numerous times on football forums fans like yourself Leggy as being labelled  "plastics"  by "real" supporters of big clubs because you guys don't meet the first 2 or 3 points on my above list for the football club they support.

Hell I even jokingly called FrankieMac a Nix Plastic cuse he's always f*cking off back to living in London the bloody great plastic and supporting that lesser team West Ham.

You see labelling people as "not real football supporters" is ludicrous because there is always someone who is going to be more "real" than you. It's not black and white and there are just too many factors. You just come over as pompous if you do.

 

Also Manchester is not such a bad place to live I have 20 odd relatives still living in Greater Manchester and they love it. Particularly at the moment as they all support Manchester's proper club...

 

LG
Legend
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23K
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almost 17 years

The real Manchester club you mean? Light blue tops??

The unique thing about the Nix is that no one really had a chance to support anyone else. After Aucklands turn, it was ours. Would have been interesting if the Knights had still existed when the Nix were started.

Fans like atrick, show that people can e attracted to the game and it is these types of fans that need to be encouraged.

Marquee
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Lonegunmen wrote:

The real Manchester club you mean? Light blue tops??

The unique thing about the Nix is that no one really had a chance to support anyone else. After Aucklands turn, it was ours. Would have been interesting if the Knights had still existed when the Nix were started.

Fans like atrick, show that people can e attracted to the game and it is these types of fans that need to be encouraged.

Agree. That's why NZ needs a second A-League team - domestic rivalry would do wonders for domestic interest. Precedents everywhere, just look across the Ditch. Time NZF pulled their finger out and talked turkey with the FFA.

Blue Cod
93
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760
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over 14 years

Being an active ACFC fan (I know, that'll come as a surprise to some) I wouldn't like to see an Auckland A League side join the Nix as it would be the end of ACFC and the ASBP. An Auckland A League side would simply suck up all the attention and money. That in turn would mean an end to O League participation too and the Fifa Club World Cup as any A League club has to be registered with the Asian Confederation and not Oceania (even though the Nix can't qualify for the AFC). 

However as the last big urban centre in Australasia without an A League club I probably think its inevitable someone will bankroll an Auckland A League franchise one day. I just hope its way down the line so we can enjoy a few more good years of the ASBP, O League and CWC.

Appiah without the pace
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19K
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almost 17 years


yup because the introdcution of the the warriors shut down the local league competition.

Legend
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15K
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about 17 years

Patrick is the shining example of what we want to happen here - casuals becoming tragics. 

Does Leggy even attend phoenix games?

Appiah without the pace
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19K
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almost 17 years

He lives in Aus.

Marquee
420
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about 17 years

people who care about who is or isn't a "real football supporter" can fuck off and get a fucking life.

Early retirement
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34K
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about 17 years

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.

Marquee
420
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about 17 years
Hard News wrote:

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.


Exactly. And with bigger crowds and more money, the "die-hard I'm the best supporter ever I'm so special" people can still walk to the stadium from Huntly through the snow and prove how amazing they are, only they will support a better team.
Legend
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15K
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about 17 years

^ agree with all of this 


lol

Legend
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22K
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over 15 years
Cosimo wrote:
Hard News wrote:

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.


Exactly. And with bigger crowds and more money, the "die-hard I'm the best supporter ever I'm so special" people can still walk to the stadium from Huntly through the snow and prove how amazing they are, only they will support a better team.


Or take advantage of the $10 stadium parking 30 mins before kick off

First Team Squad
500
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1.9K
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over 16 years

i have a season pass but have only been to one home match this season,through a combination of being broke, migraines, friend who usually drives and goes halves in petrol having a knee operation so unable to drive and a few other things happening in my life. i may or may not make it to a few more games this season, after only missing a couple of games since season one,

 i have been a little pissed off with missing so many games but shit happens and life carries on. the big gaps between home games has not helped and i am totally opposed to home away games so do not attend them.(except the ring of dirt match v sydney) which i wish i had missed.

Marquee
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6.8K
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over 13 years
Bluemagic wrote:

Being an active ACFC fan (I know, that'll come as a surprise to some) I wouldn't like to see an Auckland A League side join the Nix as it would be the end of ACFC and the ASBP. An Auckland A League side would simply suck up all the attention and money. That in turn would mean an end to O League participation too and the Fifa Club World Cup as any A League club has to be registered with the Asian Confederation and not Oceania (even though the Nix can't qualify for the AFC). 

However as the last big urban centre in Australasia without an A League club I probably think its inevitable someone will bankroll an Auckland A League franchise one day. I just hope its way down the line so we can enjoy a few more good years of the ASBP, O League and CWC.


Inasmuch as I would like to see more good quality NZ teams playing in the A-league, this simply will not happen in the present set up.
Actually, it should not happen in the present set-up whereby Phoenix is an exception among other HAL clubs. People tend to forget this.

Unlike other sports with NZ franchise teams in trans-Tasman competitions (netball, NRL, etc), the HAL is unique in that it exists within the realm of a global sport with global/regional competitions played on regional boundary lines. The Nix - located in an OFC city - was given a periodic license to play in a AFC competition. People like Frank Lowy pushed our cause (actually the cause of a NZ franchise in general) very early on, because we (a NZ franchise) were part of the HAL just before Australia moved to AFC. But we have to keep reapplying, and we cannot take part in the Asian Cup games if we won the league or the GF.

 I don't think we need another club on the same shaky premises. It would only make sense investing in another franchise here if New Zealand moved to AFC. Yes, we would lose the benefit of Auckland City or Waitakere or whoever going to the Club Champs, and maybe it would get harder to qualify to the WC (but it may also get somewhat easier, but that is another topic).

Crowds would likely improve if we had another "proper" HAL club as per above, i.e. if we were part of AFC, simply because the broadcasters would eventually give more attention to the local NZ clubs, perhaps more than they give to the netball teams?
Marquee
420
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6.3K
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about 17 years
Junior82 wrote:
Cosimo wrote:
Hard News wrote:

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.


Exactly. And with bigger crowds and more money, the "die-hard I'm the best supporter ever I'm so special" people can still walk to the stadium from Huntly through the snow and prove how amazing they are, only they will support a better team.


Or take advantage of the $10 stadium parking 30 mins before kick off



Cars are the devil's work. Makes people soft.
Marquee
4.4K
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6.8K
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over 13 years

However, I do not think the local clubs (ASBP etc) would disappear - they would continue to play just like the regional clubs in Australia. That is where a few good players would come from or move to. Not everybody has to play at the HAL level.

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years
Cosimo wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
Cosimo wrote:
Hard News wrote:

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.


Exactly. And with bigger crowds and more money, the "die-hard I'm the best supporter ever I'm so special" people can still walk to the stadium from Huntly through the snow and prove how amazing they are, only they will support a better team.


Or take advantage of the $10 stadium parking 30 mins before kick off



Cars are the devil's work. Makes people soft.

Cars make me more manly. 
Moisturiser makes people soft.
Marquee
420
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6.3K
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about 17 years
Junior82 wrote:
Cosimo wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
Cosimo wrote:
Hard News wrote:

'real football supporters' aren't what will make Rob and Gareth STFU about a travelling show.  It's getting joe-sixpack to turn up and enjoy his day out that is the difference between 7k and 12k.


Exactly. And with bigger crowds and more money, the "die-hard I'm the best supporter ever I'm so special" people can still walk to the stadium from Huntly through the snow and prove how amazing they are, only they will support a better team.


Or take advantage of the $10 stadium parking 30 mins before kick off



Cars are the devil's work. Makes people soft.

Cars make me more manly. 

Moisturiser makes people soft.


Speak for yourself. You're just not using it properly.
Legend
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22K
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over 15 years

I use it like I would swarfega.

Problem?


Marquee
420
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6.3K
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about 17 years
Junior82 wrote:

I use it like I would swarfega.

Problem?



No, no, not at all *backs away quietly*
Opinion Privileges revoked
4.8K
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9.9K
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over 14 years

The Stadium is where it is because of the ease to get there with trains and buses. If everyone's just going to use their cars like some nancy-boy Aucklander, they might as well have had it out at Paremata anyway. That's one reason why the Knights sucked - who wants to go all the way to Albania to watch football?

Of all the suggestions that have arisen in this thread, TV advertising is the only one which seems like it hasn't been tried yet.

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years
Doloras wrote:

If everyone's just going to use their cars like some nancy-boy Aucklander, they might as well have had it out at Paremata anyway. 


FYI I'm partial to long or short blacks, not lattes.


Must try harder
96
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1.5K
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about 17 years
Junior82 wrote:

I use it like I would swarfega.

Problem?




No         ,       not really       ....      maybe a little .....
Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years
FU BLU wrote:
Junior82 wrote:

I use it like I would swarfega.

Problem?




No         ,       not really       ....      maybe a little .....

You see many people make the mistake of using "a little".
You've got to slap it on and rub it in well...
Several times even.

Marquee
4.4K
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6.8K
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over 13 years

How did we get from the crowd attendances to manly skin care in a single page? (rolls his eyes in appreciation)

Appiah without the pace
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19K
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almost 17 years
Doloras wrote:

Of all the suggestions that have arisen in this thread, TV advertising is the only one which seems like it hasn't been tried yet.

I’m not convinced by advertising argument. Given there is an article in both papers just about every day, and 2 or 3 stories on the TV news, I find it hard to believe that potential attendees don’t know the Phoenix play. Whether they know the precise details is another story. But if you know the Phoenix play, want to go, then it’s not hard to find out when or where. Do people really read bus shelter ads? I doubt it. 

I’m not convinced that if we double our marketing budget it would suddenly increase the number of people going.

Appiah without the pace
6.6K
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19K
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almost 17 years

On a side note, all our big crowds have been either season 2007/8, or at the very start or very end of each season. While crowds are lowest in the middle of season.

Summation: Bangwagon.

Starting XI
1.6K
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2.6K
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almost 17 years

As an inaugural season ticket holder and with only three games missed over that time I think the crowd formula is pretty simple:

4k  

the we were shit and so was the weather, hard core fan base.  Would have been shirts off in the sleet but we weren't good enough to be leading and we hadn't looked like it in previous matches.  


Why do we have this club and how long will it last.


>4k-7k a combo of:

lower to middling league placing, but maybe improving team performances, but cold/wet/windy enough that it's an effort to want to get there 

OR

team struggling a bit, not in definate playoffs contention, but showing signs of life, getting some better media coverage, showing a trend towards midtable, and a nice day

OR

team doing mid table-ish, without setting the world on fire, but Xmas holidays, or Wgtn anniv, students not back 


This is the angsty, we need to do this, need to do that, all sorts of ideas tossed around, how do we get good, sort of fan post time.  We are just at the top end of that range now. 


>7k-10k

Team is in contention for playoffs; 5th-7th, reasonably decent day, not a holiday and students back and we've been getting some positive press about improving play.  Can also get above 7k if the team's been on a bit of a run but the weather's not great, so long as it's not a holiday.


Ooooh, getting sort of exciting.  More frequent, but just hopeful, if now less sarcastic/flippant We're going to win the League chants.


>10k

Team is top four and playing football worth watching - by the measure of the non-hardcore entertainment seeking wider sports audience. We've had some positive media for a while, the less hard-core and winner-backing crowds have started to get along to a game and seen the team play well, so we've built numbers up over a couple of good home games.  Not holidays, nor crap weather, but at this standard of play can hold numbers better with poor-ish weather.  Students are back.  Playoffs are guaranteed and we think we are in the hunt.


This is the Home play-off Game, Home Play-off Game, buzzy period, and the We're going to win the League chants are getting a tinge of real hope about them.


 

Marketing makes very little difference, I think, until you are at the 7k level and have a "product" that stands up to the more casual fans' decent entertainment test.  In that context I think the first half of the CCM game did us a bit of harm.  We'd had a few good, mainly away, results, some more positive media; the numbers built a bit and we served up crap.


The dodgy playing times I am guessing can cost us something like 1k, maybe more, if it's a problem for getting families and the less central Wellington region supporters along.  But it's hard to get a good read on that as the club will often try to compensate with a cheap ticket deal or kids free type of promo.  


That's my feel for it over the years, and I think there is a moderately predictable pattern to it, as a broad rule of thumb.  




Starting XI
1.6K
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2.6K
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almost 17 years
2ndBest wrote:
Doloras wrote:

Of all the suggestions that have arisen in this thread, TV advertising is the only one which seems like it hasn't been tried yet.

I’m not convinced by advertising argument. Given there is an article in both papers just about every day, and 2 or 3 stories on the TV news, I find it hard to believe that potential attendees don’t know the Phoenix play. Whether they know the precise details is another story. But if you know the Phoenix play, want to go, then it’s not hard to find out when or where. Do people really read bus shelter ads? I doubt it. 

I’m not convinced that if we double our marketing budget it would suddenly increase the number of people going.

Yep, I'm not going to know when the Opera is on if I'm not in the slightest bit interested.  But if the Stones are coming to town I'll be looking it up, and in time to get a seat before they sell out.  (Or White Stripes or Snoop Dog or Pearl Jam or what's your poison).

I am convinced it's not marketing.  It's performance that get's people seeing some positive press and word of mouth and starting to think, maybe I could check out the Nix.  I believe it's only THEN you need enough marketing to make it easy for more casual supporters to find the next game times and booking details.  Being on good terms with the press and helping them get out the good stories and back-up 'colour' articles is probably helpful though, you'd think so at least.
Marquee
970
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6.5K
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over 11 years
mjp2 wrote:
2ndBest wrote:
Doloras wrote:

Of all the suggestions that have arisen in this thread, TV advertising is the only one which seems like it hasn't been tried yet.

I’m not convinced by advertising argument. Given there is an article in both papers just about every day, and 2 or 3 stories on the TV news, I find it hard to believe that potential attendees don’t know the Phoenix play. Whether they know the precise details is another story. But if you know the Phoenix play, want to go, then it’s not hard to find out when or where. Do people really read bus shelter ads? I doubt it. 

I’m not convinced that if we double our marketing budget it would suddenly increase the number of people going.

Yep, I'm not going to know when the Opera is on if I'm not in the slightest bit interested.  But if the Stones are coming to town I'll be looking it up, and in time to get a seat before they sell out.  (Or White Stripes or Snoop Dog or Pearl Jam or what's your poison).


I am convinced it's not marketing.  It's performance that get's people seeing some positive press and word of mouth and starting to think, maybe I could check out the Nix.  I believe it's only THEN you need enough marketing to make it easy for more casual supporters to find the next game times and booking details.  Being on good terms with the press and helping them get out the good stories and back-up 'colour' articles is probably helpful though, you'd think so at least.

Of course it is. Everything else is just flannel.

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years
2ndBest wrote:

On a side note, all our big crowds have been either season 2007/8, or at the very start or very end of each season. While crowds are lowest in the middle of season.

Summation: Bangwagon.


Awkward...
Appiah without the pace
6.6K
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19K
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almost 17 years

Crowd for each game by how far through the season


Appiah without the pace
6.6K
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19K
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almost 17 years
Junior82 wrote:
2ndBest wrote:

On a side note, all our big crowds have been either season 2007/8, or at the very start or very end of each season. While crowds are lowest in the middle of season.

Summation: Bangwagon.


Awkward...

All aboard!

Appiah without the pace
6.6K
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19K
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almost 17 years
Jerzy Merino wrote:
mjp2 wrote:
2ndBest wrote:
Doloras wrote:

Of all the suggestions that have arisen in this thread, TV advertising is the only one which seems like it hasn't been tried yet.

I’m not convinced by advertising argument. Given there is an article in both papers just about every day, and 2 or 3 stories on the TV news, I find it hard to believe that potential attendees don’t know the Phoenix play. Whether they know the precise details is another story. But if you know the Phoenix play, want to go, then it’s not hard to find out when or where. Do people really read bus shelter ads? I doubt it. 

I’m not convinced that if we double our marketing budget it would suddenly increase the number of people going.

Yep, I'm not going to know when the Opera is on if I'm not in the slightest bit interested.  But if the Stones are coming to town I'll be looking it up, and in time to get a seat before they sell out.  (Or White Stripes or Snoop Dog or Pearl Jam or what's your poison).


I am convinced it's not marketing.  It's performance that get's people seeing some positive press and word of mouth and starting to think, maybe I could check out the Nix.  I believe it's only THEN you need enough marketing to make it easy for more casual supporters to find the next game times and booking details.  Being on good terms with the press and helping them get out the good stories and back-up 'colour' articles is probably helpful though, you'd think so at least.

Of course it is. Everything else is just flannel.

Perhaps.

But if we won 6 in a row to start the seaon do you think we'd get 10K to the 7th game? Doubt it. Casual punter would still hold off toward the end of the season where there is more on the line.

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years
2ndBest wrote:

Crowd for each game by how far through the season



A pedantic and painful request:
Would it be possible to use a different colour for the home/away matches in Dorkland, ChCh, Dunners, Smigglesville and Palmy? Would be interesting to see the spread in both timing and crowd numbers (I suspect no real trend but possibly a slightly higher than average Wgtn crowd number).

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