Crowds - The thread of Australian whining

First Team Squad
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Couldn't agree more Tonya.

It is, nevertheless, interesting to compare attendences - noting it's numbers through the turnstiles not relative %s that pay the bills. Another factor to bear in mind is the proximity of other teams. WSW travelling supporters probably add 1,500 to 2,000 to attendences at their away games at the Jets and Mariners and significantly more at SFC. The Melbourne derbies add huge numbers of "away" supporters to normal attendence numbers.

Which all makes me hope even more that one day we do get a second A-League franchise in NZ - I could very quickly see that becoming the "hottest ticket in town".

Marquee
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Whitby boy wrote:

Couldn't agree more Tonya.

It is, nevertheless, interesting to compare attendences - noting it's numbers through the turnstiles not relative %s that pay the bills. Another factor to bear in mind is the proximity of other teams. WSW travelling supporters probably add 1,500 to 2,000 to attendences at their away games at the Jets and Mariners and significantly more at SFC. The Melbourne derbies add huge numbers of "away" supporters to normal attendence numbers.

Which all makes me hope even more that one day we do get a second A-League franchise in NZ - I could very quickly see that becoming the "hottest ticket in town".

This. Rivalry is footie's heartbeat. Plus onfield performance.

Legend
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We already have the distance derby.


Grrrrrr rrrrrrrivals!!!!


Oh who am I kidding?  Brink it on ya pack of Dorkland clungewipes.

Marquee
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Junior82 wrote:

We already have the distance derby.


Grrrrrr rrrrrrrivals!!!!


Oh who am I kidding?  Brink it on ya pack of Dorkland clungewipes.

If only we could. Ah... actually, we have.

Legend
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Jerzy Merino wrote:
Junior82 wrote:

We already have the distance derby.


Grrrrrr rrrrrrrivals!!!!


Oh who am I kidding?  Brink it on ya pack of Dorkland clungewipes.

If only we could. Ah... actually, we have.


No we don't.  It's too far to drive to Miramar and I have a flat screen TV (only 32 inch) with Sommet Sport.

Still working on the pony.

Plus Farrington Field seating is too close to the action and there is no cover if it rains.

Marquee
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Congrats on the crowd of 18k Auckland. Pity it takes a mediocre team from another city in 2nd to last place of an Australian competition for you to get out and support a game of football. What is on offer locally must be really shit to watch.

Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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sthn.jeff wrote:

Congrats on the crowd of 18k Auckland. Pity it takes a mediocre team from another city in 2nd to last place of an Australian competition for you to get out and support a game of football. What is on offer locally must be really shift to watch.

Lolz. Well played. 
Starting XI
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sthn.jeff wrote:

Congrats on the crowd of 18k Auckland. Pity it takes a mediocre team from another city in 2nd to last place of an Australian competition for you to get out and support a game of football. What is on offer locally must be really shift to watch.


Thanks for coming to the game up here Jeff
Pity you didnt take some of the good cheer back home with you
Marquee
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Starting XI
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Disgr-Ace
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sthn.jeff wrote:

Congrats on the crowd of 18k Auckland. Pity it takes a mediocre team from another city in 2nd to last place of an Australian competition for you to get out and support a game of football. What is on offer locally must be really shit to watch.


How would they know if they dont watch it?
Maybe they are just as gullilbe as you
Marquee
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ballane wrote:

Really do have to wonder about Gareth and his mouth sometimes.If what is quoted in this morning paper is correct.So on the back of a crap season where your team finished with the wooden spoon and then a shitty start to the new season and despite some good recent results your team is still closer to the bottom than the top.You are disappointed with crowds and reckon more games could go away if people donrt start turning up.So before you have even managed to get some extra punters through the gates you put them off by saying there may be more away home games.Great tactic.


Also just dont understand how for supposed clever business men they seem to think a team in the A league is going to make money.There are better teams owned by more successful business men which dont make money.Did they not check things out before taking over and note how teams in this league struggle to break even.


I 100% supported this view until the weekend.  That Auckland crowd seemed like a bit of a turning point for me.  The Phoenix got 10 or 12k last year when they were crap and this year when they are playing well they get a big crowd - i.e. people there have responded to good form (personally I don't buy the "it's all marketing" angle, they promoted the hell out of last year's gamer and didn't get a big crowd).  Why isn't the same thing happening in Wellington?  I said a few pages back that it was getting harder to defend crowds in Wgtn (i.e. previous issues of cost, form, playing style have all been improved).  So what's keeping people away? Yes it's a one off game but 18k people still turned up and in the past Wellington has been capable of bigger crowds for one off matches (start and end of season etc).  This year, there's a pretty solid 7k and apart from that almost no one off interest.  

Although I do predict a biggish crowd next home game - Wellingtonians hate being shown up by Auckland!
Marquee
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james dean wrote:
ballane wrote:

Really do have to wonder about Gareth and his mouth sometimes.If what is quoted in this morning paper is correct.So on the back of a crap season where your team finished with the wooden spoon and then a shitty start to the new season and despite some good recent results your team is still closer to the bottom than the top.You are disappointed with crowds and reckon more games could go away if people donrt start turning up.So before you have even managed to get some extra punters through the gates you put them off by saying there may be more away home games.Great tactic.


Also just dont understand how for supposed clever business men they seem to think a team in the A league is going to make money.There are better teams owned by more successful business men which dont make money.Did they not check things out before taking over and note how teams in this league struggle to break even.


I 100% supported this view until the weekend.  That Auckland crowd seemed like a bit of a turning point for me.  The Phoenix got 10 or 12k last year when they were crap and this year when they are playing well they get a big crowd - i.e. people there have responded to good form (personally I don't buy the "it's all marketing" angle, they promoted the hell out of last year's gamer and didn't get a big crowd).  Why isn't the same thing happening in Wellington?  I said a few pages back that it was getting harder to defend crowds in Wgtn (i.e. previous issues of cost, form, playing style have all been improved).  So what's keeping people away? Yes it's a one off game but 18k people still turned up and in the past Wellington has been capable of bigger crowds for one off matches (start and end of season etc).  This year, there's a pretty solid 7k and apart from that almost no one off interest.  


Although I do predict a biggish crowd next home game - Wellingtonians hate being shown up by Auckland!



I dunno if Auckland would get consistently big crowds even with a bigger population. A lot of people don't go to the Nix in Wellington because it's a "been there, done that" situation. I can name about 6 people who would go 4-5 times a season in the first 3 seasons but have not been back since, or only go during the play offs. Why would Auckland be any different? I don't think poor attendance to live sporting events is just a Wellington thing.

What makes you think the cost of going has improved? Prices have steadily risen season by season and if you throw in a lean economy people just don't have the sort of disposable income they did in 2007.

I'm glad that there is some dialogue between the club and the stadium though, if they can make the stadium a bit more affordable and user-friendly then it can only help. I've had a shocking season for attendance due to work and sickness, but what I've seen it is slowly heading the right way.
Marquee
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I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.


On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

Starting XI
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Cheap season tickets are great but they're not what will attract casuals. Fever zone price at the gate is $35 iirc, and that is not cheap

Appiah without the pace
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james dean wrote:

I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.


On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

 

Patterns through out the year are decent crowds in the first round and last few round. With a decline in middle rounds. Given our results last year, it's not that surprisinging that our R1 games was done in the average.

First Team Squad
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over 13 years
Whitby boy wrote:

It is, nevertheless, interesting to compare attendences - noting it's numbers through the turnstiles not relative %s that pay the bills.

It's actually tickets sold (and profit per ticket) rather than numbers through the turnstiles. That figure can be misleading. For hurricanes rugby that figure was out by 10000 people at times.
First Team Squad
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james dean wrote:

I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

The two games at the RoF since the Nix started their hot streak have been 7.30pm on a Sunday night and in the middle of a long weekend - the timing halved the number of the group I attend with.

I think the next home game against the Heart will be the first "fair" acid test of attendances following the revitalisation / resurgence. 

I think, given any sort of decent day, we'll get a good crowd (10k+). Of course Gareth will put that down to his tanty rather than the issues with the timing of preceding games. 

First Team Squad
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over 13 years

If the Nix went on a run and got the 4th spot with a home semi/quarter/whateveryoucallit final, how many do you think we would get? I think that is a fairer game to contrast with a heavily promoted, once a season, event in Auckland. I would like to think we could still get 20k.

Starting XI
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Whitby boy wrote:
james dean wrote:

I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

The two games at the RoF since the Nix started their hot streak have been 7.30pm on a Sunday night and in the middle of a long weekend - the timing halved the number of the group I attend with.

I think the next home game against the Heart will be the first "fair" acid test of attendances following the revitalisation / resurgence. 

I think, given any sort of decent day, we'll get a good crowd (10k+). Of course Gareth will put that down to his tanty rather than the issues with the timing of preceding games. 

Sooo much this, I missed both games (7pm on a Sunday is a PRICK to get home from, and I was in Wanganui all day before the Melbourne THUMPING), and I know a few others out of town for long weekends, and can't attend Sunday nights. Yet both still got in the 7,000 range.
I think 16 Feb & 9th Mar are the dates to judge it on 5pm sunday kick-offs, Good weather and the place should be rocking.
Legend
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over 16 years
Fitzy wrote:

Cheap season tickets are great but they're not what will attract casuals. Fever zone price at the gate is $35 iirc, and that is not cheap

this is actually a really good point - cheap season passes are awesome - and will keep the hardcore fans coming back - but in Wellington we want to increase the walkup (casual fans) so reducing the ticket price here would be great - naturally you have to balance attendance vs profit - the old ticketek booking fee for one ticket needs to be revisited. Maybe charging less if the ticket is bought pre-game day - it still amazes me the number of people lining up at the Railway station booking office 25 minutes before game time for tickets. Offering an incentive to buy early might work??

 

Marquee
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Fitzy wrote:

Cheap season tickets are great but they're not what will attract casuals. Fever zone price at the gate is $35 iirc, and that is not cheap

I'm sure its $25/$26. I bought some tickets for a friends 30th against MV it was in the mid twenties for Fever Zone. 
That is one thing to take away from reading comments from news articles reporting on crowds for Phoenix games, the number of people who state that ticket prices are too expensive thinking they are mid $thirties or mid $forties when actual fact they are a lot cheaper - (even more for certain match day promotions) I think that is where some promotion could be used to correct this misinformation.
Marquee
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Got mine for Eden Pk for $27 from ticketek counter Aotea Centre 2 days before match. Fair price.

Legend
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over 16 years

ticket to game is $28? + $7 booking fee from ticketek(?) which is $35 total.

ok just checked ticketk website, silver ticket $23.00, gold $29.00 add to that a variety of booking fees, if you email it to yourself (purchase online it's 5.25) so toal cost under $30.00 for silver.... if however you are stupid enough to buy it at the venue then you get btung an addition $8.00.

So here's the suggestion again - in this digital age why the hell arent the club pushing the casula fans to book online prior to the game - $28.00 for 90 minutes of entertainment is dirt cheap.

Marquee
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theprof wrote:

ticket to game is $28? + $7 booking fee from ticketek(?) which is $35 total.

ok just checked ticketk website, silver ticket $23.00, gold $29.00 add to that a variety of booking fees, if you email it to yourself (purchase online it's 5.25) so toal cost under $30.00 for silver.... if however you are stupid enough to buy it at the venue then you get btung an addition $8.00.

So here's the suggestion again - in this digital age why the hell arent the club pushing the casula fans to book online prior to the game - $28.00 for 90 minutes of entertainment is dirt cheap.

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26
Marquee
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Bullion wrote:
theprof wrote:

ticket to game is $28? + $7 booking fee from ticketek(?) which is $35 total.

ok just checked ticketk website, silver ticket $23.00, gold $29.00 add to that a variety of booking fees, if you email it to yourself (purchase online it's 5.25) so toal cost under $30.00 for silver.... if however you are stupid enough to buy it at the venue then you get btung an addition $8.00.

So here's the suggestion again - in this digital age why the hell arent the club pushing the casula fans to book online prior to the game - $28.00 for 90 minutes of entertainment is dirt cheap.

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

OK. So I'm hitting Wngtn Friday 14th Feb and will be at Cake-tin Sunday. Can I walk into a Paper Plus in central Wngtn Friday and get a $26 ticket then sit wherever I like?

Marquee
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Jerzy Merino wrote:
Bullion wrote:
theprof wrote:

ticket to game is $28? + $7 booking fee from ticketek(?) which is $35 total.

ok just checked ticketk website, silver ticket $23.00, gold $29.00 add to that a variety of booking fees, if you email it to yourself (purchase online it's 5.25) so toal cost under $30.00 for silver.... if however you are stupid enough to buy it at the venue then you get btung an addition $8.00.

So here's the suggestion again - in this digital age why the hell arent the club pushing the casula fans to book online prior to the game - $28.00 for 90 minutes of entertainment is dirt cheap.

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

OK. So I'm hitting Wngtn Friday 14th Feb and will be at Cake-tin Sunday. Can I walk into a Paper Plus in central Wngtn Friday and get a $26 ticket then sit wherever I like?

List of ticketek agencies and box offices. You could purchase a silver ticket in the fever zone (they do generally check fever zone tickets) and then go anywhere as they don't check tickets at any other aisles.
WeeNix
42
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680
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over 14 years

the prices are higher at the stadium on matchday. I'm not sure by how much but they definitely are, as they are for most events. I think that's why there are so many people purchasing from the ticketek at the train station on gameday as they may be cheaper than at the gate.

Marquee
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Bullion wrote:
Jerzy Merino wrote:
Bullion wrote:
theprof wrote:

ticket to game is $28? + $7 booking fee from ticketek(?) which is $35 total.

ok just checked ticketk website, silver ticket $23.00, gold $29.00 add to that a variety of booking fees, if you email it to yourself (purchase online it's 5.25) so toal cost under $30.00 for silver.... if however you are stupid enough to buy it at the venue then you get btung an addition $8.00.

So here's the suggestion again - in this digital age why the hell arent the club pushing the casula fans to book online prior to the game - $28.00 for 90 minutes of entertainment is dirt cheap.

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

OK. So I'm hitting Wngtn Friday 14th Feb and will be at Cake-tin Sunday. Can I walk into a Paper Plus in central Wngtn Friday and get a $26 ticket then sit wherever I like?

http://premier.ticketek.co.nz/Content/Outlets/agencies_nth.aspx

List of ticketek agencies and box offices. You could purchase a silver ticket in the fever zone (they do generally check fever zone tickets) and then go anywhere as they don't check tickets at any other aisles.

That's great thanks. Michael Fowler or St James it is.

Early retirement
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about 17 years

Railway station a good bet as well if you are at that end of town Jerzy.

a.k.a AJ13
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Jerzy Merino wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:

So 18,000 turned up in Auckland and the team obliged with good attacking football and pundits are calling for an Auckland A League franchise. ..

I know an Auckland A League team is probably inevitable...

Biggest crowd in the A-League for Round 17. FFA take note.

Take note of what exactly? FFA are more than aware of what Auckland is like. I cannot see them considering Auckland until another 2 aussie clubs are brought in and become successful, which could take 2-4 seasons. And only then they might consider bringing in Auckland providing  they find another aussie club to balance the league out. Its going to be a huge risk as they wont be wanting an uneven league if/when auckland fuck out yet again.
Still Believin'
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JonoNewton wrote:
Whitby boy wrote:
james dean wrote:

I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

The two games at the RoF since the Nix started their hot streak have been 7.30pm on a Sunday night and in the middle of a long weekend - the timing halved the number of the group I attend with.

I think the next home game against the Heart will be the first "fair" acid test of attendances following the revitalisation / resurgence. 

I think, given any sort of decent day, we'll get a good crowd (10k+). Of course Gareth will put that down to his tanty rather than the issues with the timing of preceding games. 

Sooo much this, I missed both games (7pm on a Sunday is a PRICK to get home from, and I was in Wanganui all day before the Melbourne THUMPING), and I know a few others out of town for long weekends, and can't attend Sunday nights. Yet both still got in the 7,000 range.

I think 16 Feb & 9th Mar are the dates to judge it on 5pm sunday kick-offs, Good weather and the place should be rocking.


There's no doubt the 5-0 thumping of Melbourne got a lot of casuals talking about the Nix again, but Wellington hasn't yet had a chance to respond to that and by the time we play the Heart it will be a full month since the Victory game. I really hope we can beat the Jets this week to keep the impression of a Nix revival happening in the eyes of the public.

The reason there was only 7k at the Victory game was because our home form prior to that was W 1, D 3, L 3 and we were in 9th place.

Agree that the next couple of home games will be a more meaningful test of where Wellington's at.

a.k.a AJ13
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Bullion wrote:
Fitzy wrote:

Cheap season tickets are great but they're not what will attract casuals. Fever zone price at the gate is $35 iirc, and that is not cheap

I'm sure its $25/$26. I bought some tickets for a friends 30th against MV it was in the mid twenties for Fever Zone. 

That is one thing to take away from reading comments from news articles reporting on crowds for Phoenix games, the number of people who state that ticket prices are too expensive thinking they are mid $thirties or mid $forties when actual fact they are a lot cheaper - (even more for certain match day promotions) I think that is where some promotion could be used to correct this misinformation.

Did you buy them online or something? Pretty sure they're $35 at the gate.
Marquee
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about 17 years
Bullion wrote:

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
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over 16 years
nightz wrote:
Midfielder wrote:

Just a better update from last week...

Just on the crowd averages if you consider populations and percentages of populations Syd, Mel & Bris are very close in support numbers…

Centres
Pop in 000's Teams
Average Crowd
Sydney   4,667 SFC + WSW   35,420 0.759%
Melbourne   4,246 MV + Heart   32,650 0.769%
Brisbane   2,190 Roar   16,329 0.746%
Perth   1,897 PG   9,984 0.526%
Adelaide   1,277 AU   11,336 0.888%
Newcastle   420 Jest   12,927 3.078%
Wellington   415 Nix   8,740 2.106%
Central Coast   295 Mariners   9,916 3.361%
     


The above might actually have some meaning if the population totals were accurate.


Then put the right ones in .... as you understand them .... what how far are they out ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population

Sydney New South Wales 4,667,283 20.91%
2 Melbourne Victoria 4,246,345 19.02%
3 Brisbane Queensland 2,189,878 9.81%
4 Perth Western Australia 1,897,548 8.50%
5 Adelaide South Australia 1,277,174 5.72%
6 Gold Coast-Tweed Queensland/New South Wales 590,889 2.65%
7 Newcastle-Maitland New South Wales 418,958 1.88%

Central Coast 282,725 (2006) cencus count ... 
a.k.a AJ13
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Sanday wrote:
Bullion wrote:

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

Yep so not gate. Gate price is actually horrific, Ticketek make such a good and deceiving attempt to lure people into thinking they can turn up match day and pay the same price for tickets that you're mate paid for a day or two earlier. They're a bunch of tit wanks.
Marquee
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AJ13 wrote:
Sanday wrote:
Bullion wrote:

I just checked I got the ticket from a ticketek booking agency (Paper Plus Lower Hutt) and it cost $26

Yep so not gate. Gate price is actually horrific, Ticketek make such a good and deceiving attempt to lure people into thinking they can turn up match day and pay the same price for tickets that you're mate paid for a day or two earlier. They're a bunch of tit wanks.

This is where the club should work with ticketek to create a standardised price no matter where or how you purchase the ticket. Make sure it is an attractive price and hammer it into people.
Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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almost 17 years

Isn't the point of higher prices at the gate to encourage people to pre-purchase tickets? 

That's the part they need to be hammering into people, but the problem is that they don't so its an ultimately pointless exercise. 

Starting XI
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almost 17 years
Whitby boy wrote:
james dean wrote:

I'm not saying Auckland would support a team.  All I'm saying is the argument that people will turn up when the team start playing well seems to have been borne out in Auckland with a big crowd there reflecting good recent form (much bigger than last year) but for some reason hasn't happened in Wellington.On costs, the season tickets this year were fantastic value and cheaper than almost every year other than season 1 I think.

The two games at the RoF since the Nix started their hot streak have been 7.30pm on a Sunday night and in the middle of a long weekend - the timing halved the number of the group I attend with.

I think the next home game against the Heart will be the first "fair" acid test of attendances following the revitalisation / resurgence. 

I think, given any sort of decent day, we'll get a good crowd (10k+). Of course Gareth will put that down to his tanty rather than the issues with the timing of preceding games. 

Agree.  Auckland was the first combination this season of decent weather, on a good winning run, not in the middle of a holiday exodus.  Plus a decent game time and plenty of marketing.
Tegal Fan Club Member #1.5
200
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2.2K
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over 16 years

Auckland population is 1.42 million .... Wellington 397 to 415 K depending on what count you take..

 http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/population/census_counts/2013CensusUsuallyResidentPopulationCounts_MR2013Census.aspx


Using the Sydney / Melbourmne / Brisbane % from the above chart of around 0.75 % or there abouts..

1.420, 000 * 0.0075 is 1420000*.0075 is 10, 650 ...

Wellington gets 2.1% all up but on Wellington games only ... average 7K say 400K population is 1.75 % ..

To get 10K average it needs 2.5% ... Newcastle a similar size city with a RL team gets 3.078% so its possible .. The CC gets 3.36% but has no competition and enjoys travelling SFC & WSW & Jest derby matches match day figures... 

I guess someone in the dungeons of the investment group is doing the number crunching  ...

Your owners live in Wellington and that is a big factor ... 

Two or three big crowds and my guess is the whole thing goes away as an issue... 


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