Good post Dougie and on the money
I kinda wonder if in some respects, like you mentioned above, you do market a 'come and see Spains WC winner David Villa try defeat your Phoenix'. As was mentioned, people latched on the FU tour so where have they gone? Do they need big names?
As we don't really have any massive/global names, do we included opposition players that have big names and attach that to it as a draw card?
I wrote this back on page 159 6 weeks ago and believe it's relevant.
----------------------------------------------
The answer to this is simple - WIN!
I would imagine that if the Nix have a great start to the year, by playing good football, scoring goals, and in the top 3, then the crowds will come. I believe that a sustained winning run would see crowds to regularly top 10k and then if the Nix are in contention, the last few home games of the season may see crowds of up to 15k depending on weather etc.
Nix mgmt have said they believe regular home marketing pushes does little towards increasing crowd sizes, so i guess we need to take them at their word on this as i assume they will have done some analysis of their marketing spend and subsequent outcomes.
They are better off putting their marketing dollar in their pocket and use it for the really big games (say Mel City with Villa) and then when the team is doing well to help further fuel the buzz that will have naturally been created.
To me it's about winning. We've all been to games and know the fantastic atmosphere and most of us have raved about it to our friends, work colleagues etc until we're blue in the face, but I would say that avenue is done and dusted now in terms of increasing the numbers on a regular sustainable basis. As mentioned the club have tried marketing and believe it doesn't work.
Crowds are static, the only thing we haven't really done is a sustained winning streak, other than perhaps the tailend of the season in which we played Newcastle and Perth in the playoffs.
---------------------------------------------
There is quite good debate on that page - http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/wellington...
Although the starting point to a season is an interesting one and I admit i thought the crowd would have been around the 8.5-9.5k on Saturday given the new signings, EPL games, nice day etc etc...
I also said this a few posts down on that page...
----------------------------------------------
I have worked in Sports Marketing at domestic sports franchise so I guess have some idea. I suspect the Nix have tried as much as they can, remember they've been doing this since 2007 now. I am loathe to say to them 'don't bother its too hard' as plenty of people told me that too when I was working in the industry but I believe their marketing and promotions dept because they're on a limited budget are best left to capitalise on momentum...
It's a good debate, but sometimes practicalities win through.
The only real thing we haven't 'tried' is winning...
I still think that winning should be the icing on the cake, if you rely on winning - one bad season/stretch and all good will/momentum could be gone.
I wrote this back on page 159 6 weeks ago and believe it's relevant.
----------------------------------------------
The answer to this is simple - WIN!
I would imagine that if the Nix have a great start to the year, by playing good football, scoring goals, and in the top 3, then the crowds will come. I believe that a sustained winning run would see crowds to regularly top 10k and then if the Nix are in contention, the last few home games of the season may see crowds of up to 15k depending on weather etc.
Nix mgmt have said they believe regular home marketing pushes does little towards increasing crowd sizes, so i guess we need to take them at their word on this as i assume they will have done some analysis of their marketing spend and subsequent outcomes.
They are better off putting their marketing dollar in their pocket and use it for the really big games (say Mel City with Villa) and then when the team is doing well to help further fuel the buzz that will have naturally been created.
To me it's about winning. We've all been to games and know the fantastic atmosphere and most of us have raved about it to our friends, work colleagues etc until we're blue in the face, but I would say that avenue is done and dusted now in terms of increasing the numbers on a regular sustainable basis. As mentioned the club have tried marketing and believe it doesn't work.
Crowds are static, the only thing we haven't really done is a sustained winning streak, other than perhaps the tailend of the season in which we played Newcastle and Perth in the playoffs.
---------------------------------------------
There is quite good debate on that page - http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/wellington...
Although the starting point to a season is an interesting one and I admit i thought the crowd would have been around the 8.5-9.5k on Saturday given the new signings, EPL games, nice day etc etc...
I also said this a few posts down on that page...
----------------------------------------------
I have worked in Sports Marketing at domestic sports franchise so I guess have some idea. I suspect the Nix have tried as much as they can, remember they've been doing this since 2007 now. I am loathe to say to them 'don't bother its too hard' as plenty of people told me that too when I was working in the industry but I believe their marketing and promotions dept because they're on a limited budget are best left to capitalise on momentum...
It's a good debate, but sometimes practicalities win through.
The only real thing we haven't 'tried' is winning...
I still think that winning should be the icing on the cake, if you rely on winning - one bad season/stretch and all good will/momentum could be gone.
The average kiwi only has the attention span for winning teams though. We seem to be a country completely uninterested in any team or group unless theyre at the top of their game.
Yes but the point is that given winning is outside of the marketing departments control and even for those throughout the rest of the organisation has an element of randomness to it, how can we lift crowds even when we aren't winning? Or if we are winning, what is the best way to capitalise on it with the resources we have?
Sitting back and hoping we win every season isn't a very sound strategy.
I wrote this back on page 159 6 weeks ago and believe it's relevant.
----------------------------------------------
The answer to this is simple - WIN!
I would imagine that if the Nix have a great start to the year, by playing good football, scoring goals, and in the top 3, then the crowds will come. I believe that a sustained winning run would see crowds to regularly top 10k and then if the Nix are in contention, the last few home games of the season may see crowds of up to 15k depending on weather etc.
Nix mgmt have said they believe regular home marketing pushes does little towards increasing crowd sizes, so i guess we need to take them at their word on this as i assume they will have done some analysis of their marketing spend and subsequent outcomes.
They are better off putting their marketing dollar in their pocket and use it for the really big games (say Mel City with Villa) and then when the team is doing well to help further fuel the buzz that will have naturally been created.
To me it's about winning. We've all been to games and know the fantastic atmosphere and most of us have raved about it to our friends, work colleagues etc until we're blue in the face, but I would say that avenue is done and dusted now in terms of increasing the numbers on a regular sustainable basis. As mentioned the club have tried marketing and believe it doesn't work.
Crowds are static, the only thing we haven't really done is a sustained winning streak, other than perhaps the tailend of the season in which we played Newcastle and Perth in the playoffs.
---------------------------------------------
There is quite good debate on that page - http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/wellington...
Although the starting point to a season is an interesting one and I admit i thought the crowd would have been around the 8.5-9.5k on Saturday given the new signings, EPL games, nice day etc etc...
I also said this a few posts down on that page...
----------------------------------------------
I have worked in Sports Marketing at domestic sports franchise so I guess have some idea. I suspect the Nix have tried as much as they can, remember they've been doing this since 2007 now. I am loathe to say to them 'don't bother its too hard' as plenty of people told me that too when I was working in the industry but I believe their marketing and promotions dept because they're on a limited budget are best left to capitalise on momentum...
It's a good debate, but sometimes practicalities win through.
The only real thing we haven't 'tried' is winning...
I still think that winning should be the icing on the cake, if you rely on winning - one bad season/stretch and all good will/momentum could be gone.
This. Feel like the Wellington and NZ sporting public in general are mostly bandwagoners, though, and it's hard to shift an entire culture.
Look at Toronto FC for a complete counter point to the Phoenix - they haven't won anything in 8 years; haven't even made the playoffs. They are a complete shambles. They still get 20k+ to every game. Of course, there is a huge population difference, but there is also way more competition in the sporting market there.
Yes but the point is that given winning is outside of the marketing departments control and even for those throughout the rest of the organisation has an element of randomness to it, how can we lift crowds even when we aren't winning? Or if we are winning, what is the best way to capitalise on it with the resources we have?
Sitting back and hoping we win every season isn't a very sound strategy.
Yes but the point is that given winning is outside of the marketing departments control and even for those throughout the rest of the organisation has an element of randomness to it, how can we lift crowds even when we aren't winning? Or if we are winning, what is the best way to capitalise on it with the resources we have?
Sitting back and hoping we win every season isn't a very sound strategy.
Agree - I'm sure it's a terrible strategy, but maybe the Nix aren't sustainable fulltime in WLG, which is why they need to look at AKL and maybe CHC 2-3 times a year, which I know pisses off the 'hardcore' Nix fan, but sometimes practicalities win through.
I guess largely my point is driven by the fact that the club seem to believe they have tried pretty much everything to get bigger crowds. And at times they are successful but generally only for a game before support dies away again. Take the 10k promo last season, which got the crowd to 10k (or fractionally under), but that was a lot of work from many of the YF fans and YF 'mgmt'
Just my thoughts as I think so many things have been tried over the years and basically supports pretty much stalls at around the 6-7k mark.
But I still think winning is key as I have mentioned above and BWTCF makes a good point here too - However it is also true that a cycle of success infects a certain percentage of the Johnny-come-latelies with "the bug" that the core have. Then, during the next, inevitable, lean patch the core is bigger than it was before. Yes, the core will shrink a little during the lean patch... that's natural too as some of the less well infected core defect/lose interest.
8th, 6th, 4th, 6th, 4th, 10th, 9th
average 6.7th
We can't win all the time but averaging in the middle of the bottom half arguably is not a great way to hold a fan base.
Our BEST period 4th, 6th, 4th is barely above mid table.
I still think we could do better around public transport, everyone should know that they can bring in food and water is free, not sure what to do regarding parking - maybe remove it as exclusively a season ticket holder benefit and have it for season ticket and club members (and maybe nix six?). Have nix six for family and kid options, nix six get large discount to club membership so can get other benefits without being full season ticket holder.
I think the match day experience needs to also be made a point of difference and something superior to watching on tv - YF put in so much effort into this - is there more that we and the club can do here? are we comfortable going full RBB, flares/fights/capos/broken seats/inflated egos etc.
On that point, I did mention to the stadium that they'd be better off making their rules a bunch of things you CAN do rather than a list of things you CAN'T do.
Small change, but think that sort of thing makes a world of difference to peoples enjoyment.
Last 20 games at Westpac Stadium: WLDWLDDLLLDLWDWLDLLL
P 20, W 4, D 6, L 10
We have won 4 out of our last 20 games at Westpac Stadium, so your chances of seeing a win at Westpac Stadium are currently 20%.
We have not won at Westpac Stadium for our last 5 games there and are currently on a 3 game losing streak.
We really need to fix that.
This from Richard Reid (CEO of Capital Football)...interesting letter and although at times has some strange points (like pointing out the Warriors and multiplying every registered player by 4 for instance), but his very last sentence resonates...
--------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone,
I write to you today for two reasons;
1) I can :)
2) The article in this morning’s paper (& other like stories) re. The Phoenix.
Football is on a roll in NZ & particularly so in Wellington.
Our numbers are holding up @ adults level, we have 10% growth in juniors, 20% growth in girls, spectacular numbers in Futsal so much so that the % increase is rendered irrelevant & 17% of our registered players are females, by our estimates within two years 1 in 4 registered players will be so. These are statistics to be very pleased of & it is all down to you, the clubs, players & schools; there are 18k registered player’s within Capital Football & I can assure that ALL other sports would “kill” for numbers such as these!!
As the Phoenix enter into, inarguably their most important two seasons, this & next; they need the football families help. Their license to participate in the A League has two seasons to run, all other Aussie A League clubs have recently had their licenses extended for the next twenty, so by that simple fact we should all be concerned.
Over the last couple of years Capital Football have worked closely, & continue to do so, with the Phoenix on a variety of projects. They are excellent to deal with & I know a few of the people personally & they are proud Wellingtonians doing the right thing by the city not for any other reason.
If you multiply our registered players by a “family factor” of four that’s 72,000 in our Capital Football family & it’s all of you who this is directly aimed at; football in Wellington needs your support & the easiest way is to go to the game.
The football community can do nothing about the “floating fan”, those that only go when the teams win (look under Warriors in dictionary) it’s up to Ernie & the players to get that right.
Here’s a statistic; Stoke-on-Trent (Stoke City) have a population of 270k, they have an average home attendance of 27k (10% of the total population), they have no chance of winning the English Premier League so why do they do it? My guess would be because it’s important to the city.
The next Phoenix home game is on Sunday 26 October @ 5 p.m.
You never really know what you've got until you no longer have it.
Richard Reid
What a bloody great email. I want to weep.
I think it also needs players to be fired up about the city and the people
equals: Daniel
equals: Tim Brown
equals: Ben Sigmund
and throw in a little razzle dazzle: Felipe, Daniel, Leo
and passion: Ricki and most of the names above
Think Kenny definitely could be in this category, as could Louis, Mike McG, Doyle (if he comes right)...Burns perhaps and the new boys perhaps...Rodriguez looked good in the Football United tour. I really want to see Boyd back in the mix. He has earned his right to be there for mine. I don't remember these threatening BS paper stories when Terry was there, but turn up or we'll take it away now seems to be a common theme. Anyway of negotiating with sky for a delayed broadcast in Welly? Yeh, yeh I know...
but it means passion on the pitch and giving your all...entertain us and we'll come and bring along a lot of others. As Tegal says above 5 out of the last 6 losses at Westpac. Losing to late goals and missing chances. Looking like you aren't prepared. All these things are negatives...If you lose after leaving everything out on the pitch people will come and support that and respect that.
Are any of the players in danger of having a corner like Daniel?
Still dont understand why they think if we are top 4 they could get 25000 to Eden Park or is that based on them giving away shed loads of tickets as the game has been under written by the stadium or the council.
They cant be basing that thinking on any that has happened in football in Auckland in the recent past
Ok as I have just come back from Stoke (staying right next to the Britannia Stadium), I can tell you the population of North Staffs is 469,000 (Newcastle is a separate city administratively, but the centre of Newcastle is about 5 K from Britannia).
I went to see the Port Vale versus Bristol City match, a game which is closer in standard to the A League (although after watching Bristol I think they would beat Phoenix by at least 5).
Port Vale got 3500 fans on the night, so for a smaller city with a lower standard of football we do alright with 7500 or whatever it was.
Stoke pull support from a wider catchment and play teams like Manchester United, hardly a fair comparison to make.
If we can't afford to have a team in Wellington then I will miss it greatly, but I get sick of hearing about not supporting the club when I am a season ticket holder and have only missed two games.
They probably have forgotten about the Auckland Knights when they think they will get 25000.
You never really know what you've got until you no longer have it.
Richard Reid
See http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10818609 for example
I really want to see Boyd back in the mix. He has earned his right to be there for mine.
I think it also needs players to be fired up about the city and the people
equals: Daniel
equals: Tim Brown
equals: Ben Sigmund
and throw in a little razzle dazzle: Felipe, Daniel, Leo
and passion: Ricki and most of the names above
Think Kenny definitely could be in this category, as could Louis, Mike McG, Doyle (if he comes right)...Burns perhaps and the new boys perhaps...Rodriguez looked good in the Football United tour. I really want to see Boyd back in the mix. He has earned his right to be there for mine. I don't remember these threatening BS paper stories when Terry was there, but turn up or we'll take it away now seems to be a common theme. Anyway of negotiating with sky for a delayed broadcast in Welly? Yeh, yeh I know...
but it means passion on the pitch and giving your all...entertain us and we'll come and bring along a lot of others. As Tegal says above 5 out of the last 6 losses at Westpac. Losing to late goals and missing chances. Looking like you aren't prepared. All these things are negatives...If you lose after leaving everything out on the pitch people will come and support that and respect that.
Are any of the players in danger of having a corner like Daniel?
Yeah, one thing to take from politics is the 'cult of personality' - not sure how to promote/create such a person but could be one way to appeal to some people. Ifill and Daniel before I suppose.
I would pay to see Mallard and Collins munt each other in a game of bubble football at half time.
Throw in Harvey Norman from the greens and Colin Craig and we could make them the draw card with Nix on at halftime instead.
Ok as I have just come back from Stoke (staying right next to the Britannia Stadium), I can tell you the population of North Staffs is 469,000 (Newcastle is a separate city administratively, but the centre of Newcastle is about 5 K from Britannia).
I went to see the Port Vale versus Bristol City match, a game which is closer in standard to the A League (although after watching Bristol I think they would beat Phoenix by at least 5).
Port Vale got 3500 fans on the night, so for a smaller city with a lower standard of football we do alright with 7500 or whatever it was.
Stoke pull support from a wider catchment and play teams like Manchester United, hardly a fair comparison to make.
If we can't afford to have a team in Wellington then I will miss it greatly, but I get sick of hearing about not supporting the club when I am a season ticket holder and have only missed two games.
Blackburn is probably a good example.
Throw in Harvey Norman from the greens
Ok as I have just come back from Stoke (staying right next to the Britannia Stadium), I can tell you the population of North Staffs is 469,000 (Newcastle is a separate city administratively, but the centre of Newcastle is about 5 K from Britannia).
I went to see the Port Vale versus Bristol City match, a game which is closer in standard to the A League (although after watching Bristol I think they would beat Phoenix by at least 5).
Port Vale got 3500 fans on the night, so for a smaller city with a lower standard of football we do alright with 7500 or whatever it was.
Stoke pull support from a wider catchment and play teams like Manchester United, hardly a fair comparison to make.
If we can't afford to have a team in Wellington then I will miss it greatly, but I get sick of hearing about not supporting the club when I am a season ticket holder and have only missed two games.
Thanks for that, Mr. Buzz Killington
When we won consistently we got 30000 in to watch once...winning is a big contributor..as is discretionary $ spend.
The team needs a star and currently we really don't have one. This isn't determinative for crowds but it is a factor.
The side is very short on star power, it's basically a collection of journeymen plus McGlinchey.
I can't wait to watch the team again live but I have to say there isn't any one player that I am actually particularly excited about watching in the way I have been previously with Ifil, Felipe, Daniel (I last watched live in 2010 so I know these are old school names).
What do you mean by hierarchy? Never experienced this. Never ever got the impression that anyone is being elitist either. In fact it's what I like about yellow fever...especially compared to some of the other supporter groups around (RBB)
Tegal, quick as ever to reply to me! I say elitist and hierarchal because that's what YF is. If you're not in the 'in group' of 15-20 people you aren't in anything. Very difficult to put views across on here without being slammed. Very hard to get new chants going if you don't go to the BB or know any of the hardcore. It's almost as if there is a sense of arrogance on here where if it's not said by the usual a-team then it doesn't mean anything. Similar in terms of negative comments. People have negative views in life, instead of slamming it and ignore it, why don't you take them on board as constructive feedback?
Last home game YF was dead as can be. A fairly regular fan shouted "FIRE UP FEVER, COME ON WHERE ARE YA,' to which a number of fever fans turned around and pointed at him as if 'who does he think he is, he telling us to fire up' .. It was a challenge laid down, why instead of being dour and negative you put your voice in behind the boys and get it going.
I know people who rather not stand in the fever zone because of the type of attitude being portrayed.
But anyone can start chants and people generally join in, so I still don't understand what you're on about. I'd be annoyed at someone shouting at me to fire up too, maybe he should have started a chant instead of demanding an atmosphere from others?
As for the forums, people disagree about things. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you elitist.
You seem to have invented this 'in group' in your head as you seem to like to be on the outside of it. This is evidenced by you constantly challenging the same people on twitter.
I have never once seen someone shot down for starting a chant. I have never once seen somebody act as if they're superior to anyone else in the fever zone.
https://twitter.com/patrick478/status/521181534405...
I rest my case, nothing has changed in 7 months.
All class by Smithy, telling a fan to 'fuck off and go to the other aisles' because he wasn't chanting
Where does it say that people in the zone have to chant?
Still haven't heard back from you in regards to meeting over a beer to get your insight into how the Zone can be improved. Next time you accuse me of being 'elitist' - remember that I genuinely wanted your input into how things could improve and you just ignored the offer.
What do you mean by hierarchy? Never experienced this. Never ever got the impression that anyone is being elitist either. In fact it's what I like about yellow fever...especially compared to some of the other supporter groups around (RBB)
Tegal, quick as ever to reply to me! I say elitist and hierarchal because that's what YF is. If you're not in the 'in group' of 15-20 people you aren't in anything. Very difficult to put views across on here without being slammed. Very hard to get new chants going if you don't go to the BB or know any of the hardcore. It's almost as if there is a sense of arrogance on here where if it's not said by the usual a-team then it doesn't mean anything. Similar in terms of negative comments. People have negative views in life, instead of slamming it and ignore it, why don't you take them on board as constructive feedback?
Last home game YF was dead as can be. A fairly regular fan shouted "FIRE UP FEVER, COME ON WHERE ARE YA,' to which a number of fever fans turned around and pointed at him as if 'who does he think he is, he telling us to fire up' .. It was a challenge laid down, why instead of being dour and negative you put your voice in behind the boys and get it going.
I know people who rather not stand in the fever zone because of the type of attitude being portrayed.
But anyone can start chants and people generally join in, so I still don't understand what you're on about. I'd be annoyed at someone shouting at me to fire up too, maybe he should have started a chant instead of demanding an atmosphere from others?
As for the forums, people disagree about things. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you elitist.
You seem to have invented this 'in group' in your head as you seem to like to be on the outside of it. This is evidenced by you constantly challenging the same people on twitter.
I have never once seen someone shot down for starting a chant. I have never once seen somebody act as if they're superior to anyone else in the fever zone.
https://twitter.com/patrick478/status/521181534405...
I rest my case, nothing has changed in 7 months.
All class by Smithy, telling a fan to 'fuck off and go to the other aisles' because he wasn't chanting
Where does it say that people in the zone have to chant?
Still haven't heard back from you in regards to meeting over a beer to get your insight into how the Zone can be improved. Next time you accuse me of being 'elitist' - remember that I genuinely wanted your input into how things could improve and you just ignored the offer.
The offer is very nice Patrick, truly, but i would rather place my feedback over the forums at this point in time as I am currently in a very busy time of the year. I never intended to ignore you, I actually thought I had sent a reply late last night. I apologise. - may be in a few weeks I will take you up on this and buy the second round. Cheers.
Last 20 games at Westpac Stadium: WLDWLDDLLLDLWDWLDLLL
P 20, W 4, D 6, L 10
We have won 4 out of our last 20 games at Westpac Stadium, so your chances of seeing a win at Westpac Stadium are currently 20%.
We have not won at Westpac Stadium for our last 5 games there and are currently on a 3 game losing streak.
We really need to fix that.
That isn't good is it.
But Im amazed that price seems to be a factor - its not expensive anymore , adults and kids prices have dropped, and a season ticket is bugger all. Lets face it, there aint that much to do in Wellington, and its an afternoon out. A chance to have a moan! FFS even the food has improved.
But when you see that the Wellington Lions crowds have dropped from 20,000 to 2,000 over 10 years, then something is up.
But when you see that the Wellington Lions crowds have dropped from 20,000 to 2,000 over 10 years, then something is up.
It is not rocket science.
Sky happened.
Sky does not want people to go to the games live, because they make their money when people watch the games on TV. In particular sky wants people watching games in pubs.
So sky has a vested interest in encouraging:
1. games to be played at times which suit TV audiences, and not live attendances. e.g. rugby games at 2.30pm suit live audiences, rugby games at 7.30pm suit tv audiences.
2. pubs to screen sky, so that sky is a premium entertainment brand, which has the side effect of trying to lure people into the pubs in the city for a good night out and not to the ground.
3. live coverage IN THE CITY THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED IN, to both pubs and private homes, MUST reduce attendances.
The sports administrators who sell out to Sky are making a conscious decision to erode their live attendances supporter base to fund Sky's profits. This is a short term decision. Eventually crowds dwindle. As crowds dwindle and people watch the game on tv, they become less likely to buy merchandise over time. They are also then exposed to competing sports on tv, and become less committed fans.
This started in the 80's in NZ Rugby, and has gradually increased each decade since.
Now the rugby supporter base is a pale shadow of it's old self, and now they can't demand as much for their TV rights, and they are struggling to make the books balance because without the people through the gates the next generation(s) of fans are not getting the bug... to them, the tribalism that is infused by being part of a crwod and hearing and feeling the roar of that crowd, has been lost. There are generations now who grow up with their relationship to their team being through the TV screen.
And now with Sky HD and live pause, they are EVEN LESS vested in their team, because if the game is a bit boring they can live pause it, do something else and then fast forward through the boring bits and catch up.
Block the live broadcasts in the city the games are being played in. If you don't do that, you will never grow the crowds. They did it for test match cricket in Australia when the crowd numbers WORLDWIDE were in the toilet for test cricket, and now look at the test crowds in Australia.
It's SO SIMPLE. But for some reason sports administrators in New Zealand either don't get it, or keep ignoring it, or simply lack the balls to stand up to Sky and do what they have to do to save their sport.
What do you mean by hierarchy? Never experienced this. Never ever got the impression that anyone is being elitist either. In fact it's what I like about yellow fever...especially compared to some of the other supporter groups around (RBB)
Tegal, quick as ever to reply to me! I say elitist and hierarchal because that's what YF is. If you're not in the 'in group' of 15-20 people you aren't in anything. Very difficult to put views across on here without being slammed. Very hard to get new chants going if you don't go to the BB or know any of the hardcore. It's almost as if there is a sense of arrogance on here where if it's not said by the usual a-team then it doesn't mean anything. Similar in terms of negative comments. People have negative views in life, instead of slamming it and ignore it, why don't you take them on board as constructive feedback?
Last home game YF was dead as can be. A fairly regular fan shouted "FIRE UP FEVER, COME ON WHERE ARE YA,' to which a number of fever fans turned around and pointed at him as if 'who does he think he is, he telling us to fire up' .. It was a challenge laid down, why instead of being dour and negative you put your voice in behind the boys and get it going.
I know people who rather not stand in the fever zone because of the type of attitude being portrayed.
But anyone can start chants and people generally join in, so I still don't understand what you're on about. I'd be annoyed at someone shouting at me to fire up too, maybe he should have started a chant instead of demanding an atmosphere from others?
As for the forums, people disagree about things. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you elitist.
You seem to have invented this 'in group' in your head as you seem to like to be on the outside of it. This is evidenced by you constantly challenging the same people on twitter.
I have never once seen someone shot down for starting a chant. I have never once seen somebody act as if they're superior to anyone else in the fever zone.
https://twitter.com/patrick478/status/521181534405...
I rest my case, nothing has changed in 7 months.
All class by Smithy, telling a fan to 'fuck off and go to the other aisles' because he wasn't chanting
Where does it say that people in the zone have to chant?
Still haven't heard back from you in regards to meeting over a beer to get your insight into how the Zone can be improved. Next time you accuse me of being 'elitist' - remember that I genuinely wanted your input into how things could improve and you just ignored the offer.
The offer is very nice Patrick, truly, but i would rather place my feedback over the forums at this point in time as I am currently in a very busy time of the year. I never intended to ignore you, I actually thought I had sent a reply late last night. I apologise. - may be in a few weeks I will take you up on this and buy the second round. Cheers.
But when you see that the Wellington Lions crowds have dropped from 20,000 to 2,000 over 10 years, then something is up.
It is not rocket science.
Sky happened.
Sky does not want people to go to the games live, because they make their money when people watch the games on TV. In particular sky wants people watching games in pubs.
So sky has a vested interest in encouraging:
1. games to be played at times which suit TV audiences, and not live attendances. e.g. rugby games at 2.30pm suit live audiences, rugby games at 7.30pm suit tv audiences.
2. pubs to screen sky, so that sky is a premium entertainment brand, which has the side effect of trying to lure people into the pubs in the city for a good night out and not to the ground.
3. live coverage IN THE CITY THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED IN, to both pubs and private homes, MUST reduce attendances.
The sports administrators who sell out to Sky are making a conscious decision to erode their live attendances supporter base to fund Sky's profits. This is a short term decision. Eventually crowds dwindle. As crowds dwindle and people watch the game on tv, they become less likely to buy merchandise over time. They are also then exposed to competing sports on tv, and become less committed fans.
This started in the 80's in NZ Rugby, and has gradually increased each decade since.
Now the rugby supporter base is a pale shadow of it's old self, and now they can't demand as much for their TV rights, and they are struggling to make the books balance because without the people through the gates the next generation(s) of fans are not getting the bug... to them, the tribalism that is infused by being part of a crwod and hearing and feeling the roar of that crowd, has been lost. There are generations now who grow up with their relationship to their team being through the TV screen.
And now with Sky HD and live pause, they are EVEN LESS vested in their team, because if the game is a bit boring they can live pause it, do something else and then fast forward through the boring bits and catch up.
Block the live broadcasts in the city the games are being played in. If you don't do that, you will never grow the crowds. They did it for test match cricket in Australia when the crowd numbers WORLDWIDE were in the toilet for test cricket, and now look at the test crowds in Australia.
It's SO SIMPLE. But for some reason sports administrators in New Zealand either don't get it, or keep ignoring it, or simply lack the balls to stand up to Sky and do what they have to do to save their sport.
The only problem with this is that people are not watching the Nix in big numbers on Sky either (15,000 was the quoted number i heard this week) so that leaves the problem that a lot more people would watch it live if it was on Free To Air (if that's whats needed).
Westpac stadsium has a s*** atmosphere for both Football and Rugby so a rectangular stadium is still needed too. Blocking out the games in the local area but on Free To Air seems logical to me.
You compete with Sunday 6pm News on One which is historically, the biggest watch in NZ
The time zones are all wrong. The FFA ain't changing them anytime soon
Last 20 games at Westpac Stadium: WLDWLDDLLLDLWDWLDLLL
P 20, W 4, D 6, L 10
We have won 4 out of our last 20 games at Westpac Stadium, so your chances of seeing a win at Westpac Stadium are currently 20%.
We have not won at Westpac Stadium for our last 5 games there and are currently on a 3 game losing streak.
We really need to fix that.
I think this is a great point.
12/13 we won 5 home games but 1 was in Auckland and 1 in Dunedin. So that's 3 that season
13/14 we won 3 home games but 1 was in Auckland. So that's two that season.
Plus this year a loss first up.
God that is deperessing!
Win games, get the people back, not rocket science.
You compete with Sunday 6pm News on One which is historically, the biggest watch in NZ
The time zones are all wrong. The FFA ain't changing them anytime soon
This is a huge thing for me, the times are focused on the Australian TV audience, not the NZ one, which means that it is never going to be at the right time for Sky or Live crowds here, which is crazy.
Grim times, grim measures.
I think we need to bring out the bouncy castles, face painting and novelty one-off strips.
Perhaps also something for the kids.
Grim times, grim measures.
I think we need to bring out the bouncy castles, face painting and novelty one-off strips.
Perhaps also something for the kids.
And more fridge magnets.
And half time bed making competitions. They were a winner.
Social media could do with a shake up, whoever runs the Academy facebook page does a great job, lots of daily behind the scenes updates showing what the players are regularly up to. The Nix page is just news articles that already appear on like 6 other sites and match day updates. Engaging more people here would only help with crowd numbers
15000 views on sky for nix games, if half of those people were based in Wellington and tunred up to the game and watched it live we'd have had 15000 people at the game!
It all seems really simple to us as fans and I for one have had my rants on FB about lack of understanding from the club and the media. So because I'm a foundation member and have had dealings with Kyla Lange (thundersticks) in recent fan forums I sent her an email along the lines on my rence FB rant about how we as fans knew it wasn't our fault the team was losing and the gameday expereince wasnt appealing to non-football people. Firstly, credit to Kyla for actually responding - she never fails to impress me with the fact she reads these emails and responds.
Her comments were interesting - apparently Dome is a die hard fan and loves the nix! and as always the dom post has chosen to print the bad news stories above all the good news ones ie record memberships this year!
I responded to that saying that perhaps we need to stop giving the dom post free bad new comments to write about - the rugby/cricket reporters just love to stick the boot in especially when their own codes are "failing". Anyway she is well aware of the speed the print media pick up the bad stuff, and is as frustrated by it as we are.
I cheekily suggested that maybe she'd like to have a word with the Whittakers marketing team - everything they touch turns to gold! Sure they are selling chocolate but hey it couldn't hurt right? They are a locally based company and they have run some amazing campaigns lately - particularly the chocolate milk frenzy.
I for one hoppe like hell that the club manages to get the support form the local community they deserve, I would die if the nix end up not having a league to play in!
