I lolled
All Whites' Oceania/Asia Confederation Conundrum
Well there you have it. FIFA president nufc_nz has said it won't happen.
IBTL
OK then how about if NZ joins Asia within the next 10 years, I promise to never use this forum again. If (when) they don't, you have to donate $1000 to charity.
Who is gonna take me up on this because all of you seem so sure this is actually a viable option. At first I laughed at you, then I felt sorry for you because you are so naive.
Show yourselves.
I don't think it's likely to happen within 10 years and I'm not betting a grand on anything, so I'm not taking that deal. However there's no harm in discussing the pros and cons of it and putting the idea out there - the OFC is a joke to most global football fans so it's not like it would only be us who might be in favour of merging the whole thing into the AFC either. If you don't think it will ever happen and don't think it's worth discussing then no one is forcing you to engage with this thread.
Edit: that may have come off a bit harsher than I meant it...
Bottom line is Asia dont want us or anyone else from Oceania in their confederation. They dont even want the Nix in the A-League.
And to those saying 'we should just join the final round of Asian qualifying'... its hard enough for a lot of countries now that Aussie moved in, so what makes you all think that we have a chance of moving in at someone elses expense? I dont think a single country in Asia, bar possibly Australia, would be keen on that move.
Its just not happening.
Yeah, how about you actually read the fucking thread?
A lot of the discussion is actually about the Oceania champions joining the final stage of Asian qualifying (or some other variant of that) which is not the same as Oceania being merged with Asia.
Bottom line is Asia dont want us or anyone else from Oceania in their confederation. They dont even want the Nix in the A-League.
And to those saying 'we should just join the final round of Asian qualifying'... its hard enough for a lot of countries now that Aussie moved in, so what makes you all think that we have a chance of moving in at someone elses expense? I dont think a single country in Asia, bar possibly Australia, would be keen on that move.
Its just not happening.
Well it means they get another guaranteed spot competing against consistently weaker opposition (Oceania champions) rather than a playoff with Sth America so actually there is a real trade off for them there. Not sure why you are writing it off that quickly actually - not saying thy'd accept it but actually there is some bargaining power for Oceania.
Bottom line is Asia dont want us or anyone else from Oceania in their confederation. They dont even want the Nix in the A-League.
And to those saying 'we should just join the final round of Asian qualifying'... its hard enough for a lot of countries now that Aussie moved in, so what makes you all think that we have a chance of moving in at someone elses expense? I dont think a single country in Asia, bar possibly Australia, would be keen on that move.
Its just not happening.
You might be right but do you not think Asia would at least consider getting a straight run at 5 spots via pool play, rather that having to contest one of those spots in a play-off with South America?
Hmm, do we think we can past New Zealand in pool play easier, or the 5th placed South American team in a play-off easier? If I was them I'd at least think about it.
Fuck me JD - not often we're almost in word for word agreement!
Yeah, how about you actually read the fucking thread?
A lot of the discussion is actually about the Oceania champions joining the final stage of Asian qualifying (or some other variant of that) which is not the same as Oceania being merged with Asia.
You've definitely regressed again nufc_nz. Was it just too much effort being mature, or was your account hacked?
It's called having a laugh. Try it sometime. You know I like to wind people up sometimes.
#chillax
It's just that you've made such great strides over the last few weeks. I realise that making a few sensible comments has probably taken a toll on you and you feel the need to blow off steam, but it would be a shame to see you fall off the wagon completely.
Think of me as your AA sponsor.
It's just that you've made such great strides over the last few weeks. I realise that making a few sensible comments has probably taken a toll on you and you feel the need to blow off steam, but it would be a shame to see you fall off the wagon completely.
Think of me as your AA sponsor.
I'm sure a banstick would
Bottom line is Asia dont want us or anyone else from Oceania in their confederation. They dont even want the Nix in the A-League.
And to those saying 'we should just join the final round of Asian qualifying'... its hard enough for a lot of countries now that Aussie moved in, so what makes you all think that we have a chance of moving in at someone elses expense? I dont think a single country in Asia, bar possibly Australia, would be keen on that move.
Its just not happening.
You might be right but do you not think Asia would at least consider getting a straight run at 5 spots via pool play, rather that having to contest one of those spots in a play-off with South America?
Hmm, do we think we can past New Zealand in pool play easier, or the 5th placed South American team in a play-off easier? If I was them I'd at least think about it.
I just think they would rather have existing member nations into the final 6 under Asia, than a newbies nation, who isnt even geographically part of Asia, or part of its cultures or traditions. Its a massive cluster fuk basically. And you need to think of everything else that will come with it as well. What happens to the ASB Prem/Nix, who plays ACL when they finish top of their respective tables? ACFC or the Nix? Or both? Do we get told the Nix need to then move back to NZ?
I just think its more trouble than its worth. I dont even think we're consistently good enough either. Like someone said, it wont happen in the next 10years and thats probably a good thing. We might be a bit better with a bigger professional player base by then
I'm sure a banstick would
I'm sure a banstick would
You have misunderstood me. I meant nothing stops me from falling off the wagon. I'm still on the wagon, maybe I have put an arm over the side, but i'm still on it !
Bottom line is Asia dont want us or anyone else from Oceania in their confederation. They dont even want the Nix in the A-League.
And to those saying 'we should just join the final round of Asian qualifying'... its hard enough for a lot of countries now that Aussie moved in, so what makes you all think that we have a chance of moving in at someone elses expense? I dont think a single country in Asia, bar possibly Australia, would be keen on that move.
Its just not happening.
You might be right but do you not think Asia would at least consider getting a straight run at 5 spots via pool play, rather that having to contest one of those spots in a play-off with South America?
Hmm, do we think we can past New Zealand in pool play easier, or the 5th placed South American team in a play-off easier? If I was them I'd at least think about it.
I just think they would rather have existing member nations into the final 6 under Asia, than a newbies nation, who isnt even geographically part of Asia, or part of its cultures or traditions. Its a massive cluster fuk basically. And you need to think of everything else that will come with it as well. What happens to the ASB Prem/Nix, who plays ACL when they finish top of their respective tables? ACFC or the Nix? Or both? Do we get told the Nix need to then move back to NZ?
I just think its more trouble than its worth. I dont even think we're consistently good enough either. Like someone said, it wont happen in the next 10years and thats probably a good thing. We might be a bit better with a bigger professional player base by then
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things. I agree that the latter is fraught with difficulty and unlikely to happen. The former would be simple though and has some real advantages for both parties.
I'm sure a banstick would
You have misunderstood me. I meant nothing stops me from falling off the wagon. I'm still on the wagon, maybe I have put an arm over the side, but i'm still on it !
Don't you mean "nothing stops me from staying on the wagon"? If you're planning to fall off the wagon then you might as well just ban yourself now.
I assume we all agree that in this analogy you being "on the wagon" means you've not been quite as much of a twat recently?
Typical behaviour of a recovering addict to have lapses, however, and for the addict to try and test the commitment of their support network to the addict's recovery.
I'm sure a banstick would
You have misunderstood me. I meant nothing stops me from falling off the wagon. I'm still on the wagon, maybe I have put an arm over the side, but i'm still on it !
Don't you mean "nothing stops me from staying on the wagon"? If you're planning to fall off the wagon then you might as well just ban yourself now.
I assume we all agree that in this analogy you being "on the wagon" means you've not been quite as much of a twat recently?
Typical behaviour of a recovering addict to have lapses, however, and for the addict to try and test the commitment of their support network to the addict's recovery.
This is confusing. Look, what I'm saying is, I will try not to be a twat. I do however have a couple good gifs that I would like to use.......
I'm sure a banstick would
You have misunderstood me. I meant nothing stops me from falling off the wagon. I'm still on the wagon, maybe I have put an arm over the side, but i'm still on it !
Don't you mean "nothing stops me from staying on the wagon"? If you're planning to fall off the wagon then you might as well just ban yourself now.
I assume we all agree that in this analogy you being "on the wagon" means you've not been quite as much of a twat recently?
Typical behaviour of a recovering addict to have lapses, however, and for the addict to try and test the commitment of their support network to the addict's recovery.
This is confusing. Look, what I'm saying is, I will try not to be a twat. I do however have a couple good gifs that I would like to use.......
Oh enough of the boys club pack mentality. Leave him alone. Stop tryna kill characters!
And term x you should get a ban for calling him a twat
The gif plays.
Back on topic everyone. Or the ban stick will come a knocking.
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things. I agree that the latter is fraught with difficulty and unlikely to happen. The former would be simple though and has some real advantages for both parties.
Yeah dont know why i went on about that actually looking back at it.
I still dont see either as being likely though. I cant see Asia thinking that us joining their final round as being a good thing as it purely means someone else is then missing out on a tonne load of games (probably a West Asia nation), and guess where their president is from. Yes it might mean 5 go straight through, and we may or may not be one of them. But the simple fact that an existing member nation is going to miss out on this round because an inferior country from an inferior confederation wants in, isnt going to go down well.
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the former is how it worked in Glorious 1982, right? We had to beat Australia, Taiwan and Fiji before going up against Kuwait, Saudi and China.
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things. I agree that the latter is fraught with difficulty and unlikely to happen. The former would be simple though and has some real advantages for both parties.
Yeah dont know why i went on about that actually looking back at it.
I still dont see either as being likely though. I cant see Asia thinking that us joining their final round as being a good thing as it purely means someone else is then missing out on a tonne load of games (probably a West Asia nation), and guess where their president is from. Yes it might mean 5 go straight through, and we may or may not be one of them. But the simple fact that an existing member nation is going to miss out on this round because an inferior country from an inferior confederation wants in, isnt going to go down well.
1: They have 4 guranteed spots right now. That will not change.
2: They have a half spot which they play another confed for the right to go. That gets upgraded.
3: Considering they have 5 genuine spots and then an NZ team thrown in, the odds are that its at least there for their team to crack on.
I can't see it being a position positive of negative for AFC because essentially, that half spot becomes a full one but its still touch or go if AFC or OFC go through. Basically as they are now.
Depends how likely they think nz are to get into those top 5 spots every 4 years. I'd argue that if effectively increases their spots from 4.5 to something like 4.7-4.8
There are of course other factors. But its not entirely against their interests.
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things. I agree that the latter is fraught with difficulty and unlikely to happen. The former would be simple though and has some real advantages for both parties.
Yeah dont know why i went on about that actually looking back at it.
I still dont see either as being likely though. I cant see Asia thinking that us joining their final round as being a good thing as it purely means someone else is then missing out on a tonne load of games (probably a West Asia nation), and guess where their president is from. Yes it might mean 5 go straight through, and we may or may not be one of them. But the simple fact that an existing member nation is going to miss out on this round because an inferior country from an inferior confederation wants in, isnt going to go down well.
No country is going to miss out on games if NZ comes in to the last round in Asia. Because the two pools are each expanded to six countries in each. So in fact there will be eleven Asian countries in the playoffs instead of the current ten. Plus each country gets ten playoff games instead of the current eight. Plus no playoff against a South American team. Win win for everyone.
You still seem to be confusing the idea of the Oceania Champs joining the last round of Asian qualifying with NZ actually joining Asia. They are two completely different things. I agree that the latter is fraught with difficulty and unlikely to happen. The former would be simple though and has some real advantages for both parties.
Yeah dont know why i went on about that actually looking back at it.
I still dont see either as being likely though. I cant see Asia thinking that us joining their final round as being a good thing as it purely means someone else is then missing out on a tonne load of games (probably a West Asia nation), and guess where their president is from. Yes it might mean 5 go straight through, and we may or may not be one of them. But the simple fact that an existing member nation is going to miss out on this round because an inferior country from an inferior confederation wants in, isnt going to go down well.
No country is going to miss out on games if NZ comes in to the last round in Asia. Because the two pools are each expanded to six countries in each. So in fact there will be eleven Asian countries in the playoffs instead of the current ten. Plus each country gets ten playoff games instead of the current eight. Plus no playoff against a South American team. Win win for everyone.
Well, not for CONMEBOL or CONCACAF. Surprised this issue hasn't been mentioned and people are talking about Asia going from 4.5 spots to 5 spots as though that's a given.
Personally id rather AFC absorb OFC completely and allow...
1. Phoenix to stay in A League and being allowed to compete in Champions League
2. AFC given a 5th World Cup spot, final round being still two pools of 5. Playoff for 3rd placed teams in each
3. All 11 OFC nations league winners (NZ - Auckland City, Fiji - Ba, PNG - Hekari United etc etc) to compete in the AFC Cup (tier below AFC Champions League which is for emerging nations)
4. 10 OFC nations (excluding NZ who would compete) to compete in the AFC Challenge Cup (see above but internationally) with the winner earning a spot in the AFC Asian Cup.
C'mon Patrick, give the people a little taste...
"The Asian and Oceania football confederations have opened discussions about combining World Cup slots to improve their qualification chances at future tournaments, AFC President Sheikh Salman said."
"We had the Australians in but I think we should look at how we can combine our slots together," the Bahraini told reporters on the sidelines of the AFC Awards in Malaysia when asked if he wanted New Zealand to join the AFC.
"This is something that we are discussing with Oceania and hopefully there will be something on how those legs are to be played. Because geographically we are much closer."
"This is a decision that should be taken by FIFA as well about the half slot, but we will wait, we have time, but this is something that we should look at for the future," he said.
"So far this is just in the beginning stages. I think we need to look at the two continents as a whole, not just by inviting ... because what is going to be left from Oceania."
So this is talking about combining the slots at some point during qualifying, not NZ actually joining Asia.
But it does seem to put to rest the "what's in it for Asia?" question. They can see it would improve their chances, while we obviously think it would also improve ours.
Remaining obstacles are CONMEBOL and CONCACAF (I wonder who has the most votes out of CONMEBOL/CONCACAF and ASIA/OCEANIA?) and also the remainder of Oceania. Will the other Oceania nations see this as improving their chances or would they rather roll the dice in a play-off? Cost may also be a factor for them. I can't realistically see Oceania turning down the opportunity if offered though.
C'mon Patrick, give the people a little taste...
"The Asian and Oceania football confederations have opened discussions about combining World Cup slots to improve their qualification chances at future tournaments, AFC President Sheikh Salman said."
"We had the Australians in but I think we should look at how we can combine our slots together," the Bahraini told reporters on the sidelines of the AFC Awards in Malaysia when asked if he wanted New Zealand to join the AFC.
"This is something that we are discussing with Oceania and hopefully there will be something on how those legs are to be played. Because geographically we are much closer."
"This is a decision that should be taken by FIFA as well about the half slot, but we will wait, we have time, but this is something that we should look at for the future," he said.
"So far this is just in the beginning stages. I think we need to look at the two continents as a whole, not just by inviting ... because what is going to be left from Oceania."
So this is talking about combining the slots at some point during qualifying, not NZ actually joining Asia.
But it does seem to put to rest the "what's in it for Asia?" question. They can see it would improve their chances, while we obviously think it would also improve ours.
Remaining obstacles are CONMEBOL and CONCACAF (I wonder who has the most votes out of CONMEBOL/CONCACAF and ASIA/OCEANIA?) and also the remainder of Oceania. Will the other Oceania nations see this as improving their chances or would they rather roll the dice in a play-off? Cost may also be a factor for them. I can't realistically see Oceania turning down the opportunity if offered though.
Wow!
This has moved as lot faster than I thought it would. If the push is coming from the Head of Asia Confed and there is support from Blatter, who is in the loop, then I would bet that something will happen....and maybe soon.
The fact that they have confirmed that Asia and Oceania have opened discussions on combining the slots actually hugely adds to the probability it will happen.
So it would appear the minimum that will happen is that Asia will playoff against Oceania for a WC slot. However with Blatter saying he wants to scrap the playoff system then the next likely scenario is that the Oceania winner would somehow fold into the Asian system, maybe the final round of pool play.
However what I found really interesting was the wording of the Asia Confed president. He was specifically asked " if he wanted NZ to join the AFC" he replied "we need to look at the two continents as a whole, not just by inviting.....(NZ)....because what is going to be left in Oceania". The key word is"just". He did not say "not by inviting NZ" You could infer from that there is perhaps an idea of AFC absorbing Oceania....maybe just semantics but you never know. What it does spell out is the death of the idea of NZ leaving Oceania and joining AFC. It seems like its either the whole of OC goes into AFC or nothing.
This has huge ramifications for NZ and the AW's. It now appears highly likely that the AW's will play WC qualifying matches in Asia.....and most likely in the final round. That would give us at least 4 and possibly 5 home games. And these are games will mean something and we will be competitive. Bring it on!
You'd think if this happened then AFC may as well absorb OFC?
No one will know until FIFA release the draw paths in 2016 for each confederation. Its looking more then likely that OFC will get CONMEBOL.
If so the All Whites might as well be coached by some local ex-pat, Play there home match at a bigger stadium to get more funds for QATAR 2022.
No one will know until FIFA release the draw paths in 2016 for each confederation. Its looking more then likely that OFC will get CONMEBOL.
If so the All Whites might as well be coached by some local ex-pat, Play there home match at a bigger stadium to get more funds for QATAR 2022.
No one will know until FIFA release the draw paths in 2016 for each confederation. Its looking more then likely that OFC will get CONMEBOL.
If so the All Whites might as well be coached by some local ex-pat, Play there home match at a bigger stadium to get more funds for QATAR 2022.
You'd think if this happened then AFC may as well absorb OFC?
What does AFC get from absorbing OFC. 1/2 spot and NZ
1: they don't need NZ
2: they don't need the other broke ass 10 countries who bring no money, no football, no tv or rights, and no political clout
3: they won't want to cut their pie an extra 11 ways to fund our nations and piss their own members off
4: is Iran really gonna want to travel to Tahiti?
The only only positive is a half spot and thats only what they are talking about.