If we can get the AW into the final round of AFC qualifying and leaving everything else the way it is - we should all go out and buy lotto tickets. That would be too good to be true.
Edit: Sorry, very Australian of me....by saying the AW, I really mean "we in Oceania"
Hey, all I was arguing was that...
"The only 'proposal' on the table is to do with OFC champion joining AFC final stage of WC qualfication."
...is not correct. That statement is not backed up by any quote from AFC but they are taking a look at changing AFC qualification at the moment and ways of gaining that extra half spot. They will look at proposals to bring Oceania in. Now is the time to be pushing it.
With this matter now in the public arena, why isn't NZF making a statement on its position? Even if it's along the lines of "we're greatly interested etc etc.." Afterall, this is one of the most vital issues facing the sport in NZ. It's also an ideal way to keep All Whites in the media cycle because this will drag on for months.
With this matter now in the public arena, why isn't NZF making a statement on its position? Even if it's along the lines of "we're greatly interested etc etc.." Afterall, this is one of the most vital issues facing the sport in NZ. It's also an ideal way to keep All Whites in the media cycle because this will drag on for months.
If you want to control the news cycle on your business you get out there with a statement - even if it's a holding type statement.
With this matter now in the public arena, why isn't NZF making a statement on its position? Even if it's along the lines of "we're greatly interested etc etc.." Afterall, this is one of the most vital issues facing the sport in NZ. It's also an ideal way to keep All Whites in the media cycle because this will drag on for months.
With this matter now in the public arena, why isn't NZF making a statement on its position? Even if it's along the lines of "we're greatly interested etc etc.." Afterall, this is one of the most vital issues facing the sport in NZ. It's also an ideal way to keep All Whites in the media cycle because this will drag on for months.
You also don't really want to jump the gun.
Guess there is a question about who would approve this change (AFC/OFC or the entire ExCo). If it is the whole ExCo then you'd think CONCACAF and CONMEBOL would be against it as they would be losing the chance to playoff with weaker AFC/OFC sides.
I thought FVH had already said something along the lines of how happy he was it was being discussed. I don't know how making a song and dance of it is going to achieve anything beneficial, certainly its not going to influence AFC.
That was a few weeks or so ago wasn't it? this I heard today or yesterday, can't remember where, probably radio sport and 3rd hand
How about the 5th placed AFC side plays in the OFC last stage group? That would be fair.
Terrible idea
All sounds like a positive move to me. Ideally I think extending the final AFC qualifying round from 10 to 12 teams and including the winner of the OFC stage in this would be the best solution for all.
1. Asia has an opportunity to send 5 teams to the WC rather than 4.5
2. NZ stay in OFC and are able to compete in the ONC for a place in the Confederations Cup every four years
3. NZ age group sides still have a better opportunity to compete in FIFA youth tournaments through qualification from Oceania
4. OFC keeps its own identity
5. NZ club sides can still compete in the FIFA World Club Cup
6. Likes of Solomon Is, Fiji, Samoa etc... still have chance for big games against NZ
If the OFC was completely swallowed up and merged with the AFC we would lose the above apart from point number one which would only really benefit Asia.
Either way you could possibly see more players from NZ plying their trade in Asia due to extra exposure. Although Killen and Fitzgerald have done well in China and Japan recently, there are lots of Australians playing in East Asia professionally since Oz moved to the AFC.
Five home games against the likes of UAE, Korea, Japan and Uzbekistan in AFC qualifying sounds brilliant to
With this matter now in the public arena, why isn't NZF making a statement on its position? Even if it's along the lines of "we're greatly interested etc etc.." Afterall, this is one of the most vital issues facing the sport in NZ. It's also an ideal way to keep All Whites in the media cycle because this will drag on for months.
Like this?
Exactly. Not that hard. Was it? Now we've got another positive news story for the media to follow. PR 101
We need to bring back the trans-tasman cup if we cant get into asia. We need to utilize every fifa window to play as many friendly matches as possible with AFC opponents. (Probably will be the cheapest for decent quality teams)
Joining the last stage of AFC (let’s assume it happen) does have its issues.
The key question for me is whether there is separate qualification for the Confeds Cup and for the spot in the Asia WCQ phase.
Either way, OFC qualification would need to start early.
The final stage of Asia WCQ last time ran from June 2012 to June 2013. So assuming there are two more teams, and then an internal playoff between the two groups, you’d expect that would run from June 2016 to November 2017 (which would include some space for friendlies and the Confederations Cup in June 2017). Thus we would need to find our OFC representative by March 2016.
If OFC had a separate path for Confeds Cup and Asia WCQ phase, then you’d expect a tournament style competition in June 2015 for the Confeds Cup, then a subsequent home and away series for four teams over Sept, Oct, Nov 2015 international windows. However there is issues there as the Pacific Game, which was used as the First Stage of OFC WCQ is taking place 4-18 July 2015. Logistically and financially, it seems difficult.
If it is the same path, then there are significant implications if we do another Honiara. That is, no confeds cup, and no final Asia WCQ phase. I guess this may mean a simple home and away series between the 4/5 best teams over Sept, Oct, Nov 2015, Mar 2016 international windows. But then there is a question how you find those 4/5 best teams. Maybe the 4 from last time plus the winner of the Pacific Games.
Well if it was all tied up in one process there would be should enough time to find the OFC champion via a home and away playoff. Could probably even increase it to 6 teams, instead of 4. Would still require some kind of pre tournament to eliminate the other handful of nations.
Ideal but that has happend 1966-1982.
Glen Moss and current All Whites back joining Asia ahead of Japan game:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/9723917/Emblen-right-man-for-the-job-says-Glen-Moss
Moss added the Tokyo game was an opportunity for the All Whites to prove that they could handle a move from Oceania into the Asian confederation.
The 31-year-old said the players all supported such a move.
"We'd much rather play more quality opposition in Asia. I think it's only going to benefit New Zealand football in the long run."
So announced today that the nine Australian clubs have had their license extended for 20 years but the Phoenix only until 2016.
This looks to be held up by the fact that AFC doesn't want someone in Oceania conference in the A-League. It could be if something doesn't happen the Phoenix could be gone?
http://m.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/ffa-extends-hyundai-a-league-licences-to-2034/86298
Was talked about on the radio. The announcement was expected, and they have known all along that they will ahve to go through a different process to get the extension.
I heard on the radio that no announcement will be made on the Nix's licence extension until after this season ends or late next season. With Welnix's wanting Asian Champions League exception and a stadium move - I guess these things take time.
Are there any complaints or debates about the size of the AFC from the countries within it? It seems obvious from the outside that it's just too damn big in terms of the distances teams have to travel but is this ever expressed by fans or federations in there? It would be a lot easier to merge Oceania with Asia if Asia was split in two along East/West lines. Also it would mean teams would play regional rivals more often which might appeal to fans and broadcasters. And it would solve the problems with Confeds Cup numbers that would occur if Oceania was merged into the AFC as it currently is.
I assume that there would have to be sign off from FIFA regarding this but if the big money in the Middle East was behind it I don't imagine it would be too hard from that perspective. Some brown paper bags sent to the right hotel rooms should do the trick
I'm just wondering if there's already any impetus towards splitting AFC in two because I have no idea.
Splitting AFC wont happen ever.
1) West has money, But no where near the money coming to FIFA and the AFC then East. As east really has more money tided into the game(TV rights/sponcership/supporters) , And way more growth then the west nations period.
2) West is 9 nations at most, If there was a spilt you would find country's like Lebanon and Uzbekistan joining UFEA as offered a few years back.
OFC will not merge, It would lose to much money and being governed to meet the AFC criteria means the island nations would just fold as there used to getting some lead way from OFC.
So New Zealand should go it alone? Well the Muppet's running the ASB prem would LOSE any right to play in the ACL as its for Pro clubs only. ASB prem sides would not play in the AFC cup (the poor nations champions league) as they (New Zealand) would have a team playing in the A-League.
NZF would be governed (for once) and would have to take some big steps to meet what's needed for world cup qualifying placings etc etc.
Women's game would just go into overdrive both on and off the pitch.
PNG wanted to join the AFC (Or the elected board at the time) but was over-throne and banned back in 1998, Solomon Islands where invited to join ASEA (then later join/become a AFC member) but turned it down in 2007.
Thankfully, it seems AFC President Shaikh Salman bin Ebrahim Al Khalifa (who is also Bahrain FA President) bears no grudges against us for poaching his national coach, Anthony Hudson months out from Bahrain's Asian Cup appearance:
http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/News/ViewArticl...
“The OFC President’s Cup is yet another exhibition of football as the global game.
"The successful staging of the tournament has truly solidified the strong relationship that is already in existence between Asia, Oceania and CONCACAF, and for that my respect and sincerest appreciation to the OFC President, Mr David Chung and his team for this accomplishment.
"I hope that the success of this tournament would bring about similar initiatives in years to come," he says.
He seems a decent guy, whereas his predecessor Bin Hamman was (apart from being kicked out for taking bribes) not keen on the Phoenix from Oceania taking part in Asian comp the A-League and seemed opposed to Oceania moving closer to involvement with the AFC.
And what's your opinion of OFC President
Mr Chung ?
And what's your opinion of OFC President
Mr Chung ?
He seems a canny politician and quite enterprising in trying to get Oceania direct qualification for the World Cup. Also free of any corruption scandals as yet (unlike his predecessor):
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/football-soccer/news/art...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/ofc-presidents-cup/news/...
OFC President's Cup in Auckland this Month was a "Love Fest" for Three FIFA Confederation Presidents:
"Perhaps more importantly, he believes OFC have to build alliances with other confederations to make any progress on the world stage, especially with March's vote on 2018 World Cup spots and pathways. Oceania hope any playoff will be against an Asian side.
"We can't do anything by ourselves," Chung said. "We have only one vote [on the Fifa executive committee]. Everything needs to be done through relationships."
That's why it's no coincidence that teams from the Cayman Islands (Bodden Town) and Bahrain (Busaiteen) are the representatives from the North American Confederation (Concacaf) and Asian Football Confederation (AFC) respectively.
The Cayman Islands just happens to be the home federation of Concacaf president Jeffrey Webb (who succeeded Jack Warner) and AFC president Salman Al-Khalifa hails from - you guessed it - Bahrain."
Interesting discussion, thanks for the fun read.
However, as an Australian I feel I should point something out: not even Japan has the privilege of jumping directly to the final round of qualification. If the WC qualification spots are merged, the fairest way of doing it would be to have the OFC champions (read: New Zealand), and perhaps the runners up, join in during the first of the two group stages (i.e. join at the same time as Australia, Japan, South Korea etc).
And a couple of other little observations:
- If AFC and OFC were to merge (and I sincerely hope they do), the new confederation would have 57 members, which is only 3 more than UEFA, so I think the suggestions that a combined confederation would be too large and have to split are a bit exaggerated. As for the travel distances, the first round of qualification is a simple two-leg playoff which would be easy to separate by region. And honestly, I doubt that many OFC nations would be able to get through it to the group stages, so it is really a non-issue.
- Joining the AFC has been almost universally beneficial for Australian football. There is more money available for the game than ever, public interest in the sport is at an all-time high (not including World Cups), and the international interest in our domestic league and players is gradually increasing. Based on how it has affected Australia, I seriously doubt the suggestions that staying in the OFC would be more beneficial for NZ football.
Interesting discussion, thanks for the fun read.
However, as an Australian I feel I should point something out: not even Japan has the privilege of jumping directly to the final round of qualification. If the WC qualification spots are merged, the fairest way of doing it would be to have the OFC champions (read: New Zealand), and perhaps the runners up, join in during the first of the two group stages (i.e. join at the same time as Australia, Japan, South Korea etc).
And a couple of other little observations:
- If AFC and OFC were to merge (and I sincerely hope they do), the new confederation would have 57 members, which is only 3 more than UEFA, so I think the suggestions that a combined confederation would be too large and have to split are a bit exaggerated. As for the travel distances, the first round of qualification is a simple two-leg playoff which would be easy to separate by region. And honestly, I doubt that many OFC nations would be able to get through it to the group stages, so it is really a non-issue.
- Joining the AFC has been almost universally beneficial for Australian football. There is more money available for the game than ever, public interest in the sport is at an all-time high (not including World Cups), and the international interest in our domestic league and players is gradually increasing. Based on how it has affected Australia, I seriously doubt the suggestions that staying in the OFC would be more beneficial for NZ football.
1: What difference does it make if Japan have direct qualification or jumping a round? This is talking about direct entry from a confederation point of view. AFC has 4 (is that right?) OFC have 0. If Japan are not good enough to get into the 4, not OFCs fault.
2: If they merged, they would still dominate the lower half of the FIFA rankings so not sure what the comparison to UEFA is. Also Europe tends to operate under one market making their confederation easier to manage. India, Asia, South East Asia, Pacific, Australia, NZ.... far too many different areas where there is not a common rule. Also in Europe, if a team revolts, they are out. If Qatar say 'up yours' everyone would pander to them. The politics of the region make it a completely different kettle of fish to Europe because some countries refuse to see the good for everyone.
3: There is more money for Australia primarily because they have a bigger broadcast market. In NZ, there is SKY. They are not paying for sharkty ASBP coverage as it is and joining AFC would not put more money into our bank from a broadcast perspective and also our teams would get less cash/exposure because of no qualifying to FIFA tournaments. Our national league is not of a quality where anyone would want to pay for it, let alone broadcasters outside NZ. We also play in parks, not stadiums where there are more birds than spectators. How can you even possibly sell that to an international audience.
AFC and OFC will not merge. The island nations will not want to give up the little political clout they have. At the moment, its 10 island nations vs NZ and they all make sure their backs are scratched (ask Temarii) They will not surrender that to be powerless minnows in an expanded (and it will only be split into West Asia and South East Asia so....) confederation where no one gives 2 sharks about them and they lose the direct funding from FIFA. At the moment, OFC island representatives sit on FIFA committees. If it was 1 confederation, that would not happen. Merging give them ZERO benefit and they will never vote for it.
If everything you say about merging is taken as universally true, it would have happened by now.
I think point 1 is around the winnner of Oceania jumping into the final round of asian qualification, and that Japan do not have this privilege.
...but nor would the Oceania Champion. They would have to qualify from Oceania to take a spot in the final group round.
how can it be a true World Cup if every confederation isn't represented?
how can it be a true World Cup if every confederation isn't represented?
Interesting discussion, thanks for the fun read.
However, as an Australian I feel I should point something out: not even Japan has the privilege of jumping directly to the final round of qualification. If the WC qualification spots are merged, the fairest way of doing it would be to have the OFC champions (read: New Zealand), and perhaps the runners up, join in during the first of the two group stages (i.e. join at the same time as Australia, Japan, South Korea etc).
And a couple of other little observations:
- If AFC and OFC were to merge (and I sincerely hope they do), the new confederation would have 57 members, which is only 3 more than UEFA, so I think the suggestions that a combined confederation would be too large and have to split are a bit exaggerated. As for the travel distances, the first round of qualification is a simple two-leg playoff which would be easy to separate by region. And honestly, I doubt that many OFC nations would be able to get through it to the group stages, so it is really a non-issue.
- Joining the AFC has been almost universally beneficial for Australian football. There is more money available for the game than ever, public interest in the sport is at an all-time high (not including World Cups), and the international interest in our domestic league and players is gradually increasing. Based on how it has affected Australia, I seriously doubt the suggestions that staying in the OFC would be more beneficial for NZ football.
IMO it would be very arrogant to design a qualification system weighed against the smaller teams on the basis that the probably won't qualify anyway. The whole point is that everyone has a crack, however remote their chances.
Edited Football Manager 2015 to move NZ into Asia.
Simulated 4 seasons and New Zealand qualified to the final round of the AFC qualifiers finishing third in their group behind Australia and Korea. Won the AFC playoff against China 1-0 on aggregate, but lost 7-2 on aggregate in the Inter Continental playoff against... Mexico!
#JustSaying
Andy Martin hints he will lobby Sepp Blatter for NZ to join the AFC during their scheduled meeting during the u-20 World Cup:
http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/video-nz-football-que...
"Martin also suggested he'll use a scheduled meeting with FIFA President Sepp Blatter to discuss New Zealand's place in the Oceania Confederation.
Asked if the ambitions of New Zealand Football were out of line with other oceania members Martin said "that's where we're starting to look".
"We can't be held back by being part of a confederation where we're being pulled to the lowest common denominator." Martin said.
This after OFC decided to schedule NZ to play five games in ten days in the Olympic qualifiers / Pacific Games next month, despite NZ lobbying for a more reasonable schedule for some time....
Andy Martin hints he will lobby Sepp Blatter for NZ to join the AFC during their scheduled meeting during the u-20 World Cup:
http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/video-nz-football-que...
"Martin also suggested he'll use a scheduled meeting with FIFA President Sepp Blatter to discuss New Zealand's place in the Oceania Confederation.
Asked if the ambitions of New Zealand Football were out of line with other oceania members Martin said "that's where we're starting to look".
"We can't be held back by being part of a confederation where we're being pulled to the lowest common denominator." Martin said.
This after OFC decided to schedule NZ to play five games in ten days in the Olympic qualifiers / Pacific Games next month, despite NZ lobbying for a more reasonable schedule for some time....
Time for us to hit the road...
