WeeNix
610
·
930
·
about 9 years

Why not try Benji van den Broek again? Central midfielder, captain of his team in the Jupiler League (ok, not a great league, but higher than SSP). Does it matter he wasn't apparently popular with the team? I wouldn't have thought so....was it Duncan Cole who was an outsider in the 82 AWs? Didn't seem to stop him being a good player

There are any number of players that could be tried, but Anfony has gone so far down a path with youngsters (who wont be peaking until either the 2022 or 2026 World Cups) that he can't turn back now

Starting XI
900
·
2.5K
·
over 12 years

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

EPL wrote:

Not a great game by any stretch.

IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey. 

NC were far better technically. Their short game was good. The were prepared to play through and or around. Ver seldom long or over the top.

The 2 best players on the park were the NC #10 and #18. Clever, strong NZ couldn't cope with them. Roll on Fiji.

One other thing Sky..You need to move Fred and Harry Ngata on..with the greatest respect they are mono tone, no enthusiasm for the game. Their tactical appreciation is sadly lacking. Fred is just down tight boring!!

Put chotey alongside Piney.

Pretty sure OFC hired the commentators for this game

OFC had nothing to do with producing the broadcast. It was all on the host broadcaster (New Caledonia). Assume Sky sent their own commentators over.

Also, Harry wasn't on the coverage. It was Gordon Watson who I thought did an excellent job. Agree with comments about Fred though.

Marquee
4.1K
·
5.6K
·
almost 12 years

We are to fickle as fans... it was a bad day yes, but previously when we had these we got beaten,.. atleast this did not happen. I think in general we have improved under Hudson, we haven't moved as far away from Ricki's day as some of os would have like, but progress has been made.

I do love how we say that this is our best team ever attacking wise... remembering two of our best players in Rojas and Barbs both failed to make it in Europe and our bright star in Tuiloma is lucky to make the bench. Thomas plays in a good league, but not a great one.

We over rate our players and then punish them for not being superstars... hard to win with that mentality.

I don't particularly rate Dyer, but at least he showed up, Rojas was AWOL last night.

Starting XI
2.5K
·
3.2K
·
almost 12 years

It's beyond me that anyone tries to defend, see any positives, in a 0:0. It is sub-standard and that to often.

First Team Squad
270
·
1.9K
·
about 17 years

My view. A very useful point, even more useful was that we denied NC three points. 

Monty Patterson was poor BUT he doesn't hide, doesn't seem to let such a bad miss get to him. He'll prove to be a good international player moving forward.

Durante was good, so was Thomas. Rojas was hot and cold - mainly cold, but that's him.

However, I cannot understand the favouritism shown to certain players by Anthony Hudson. Moses Dyer is the obvious one as most of us seem to be aware. Was Henry Cameron injured? If not, his club released him, he flew all the way here to get no game minutes at all. Two 24 hr plus flights for Moses Dyer to get picked ahead of him. And I haven't even mentioned Bill Tuiloma.

I just don't get it.

Again, I just don't get it.

Marquee
2.1K
·
8.2K
·
about 17 years

number8 wrote:

It's beyond me that anyone tries to defend, see any positives, in a 0:0. It is sub-standard and that to often.


Exactly.  What about a bit of ambition - we are talking about playing teams ranked below us with less resources.  There are some difficulties in playing in the islands but that was hardly a hostile atmosphere and the pitch was good.  The lack of combinations and absence of passing football was pretty disappointing, and the failure to get the quality attacking players we have into good areas is the big disappointment

Phoenix Academy
110
·
190
·
almost 10 years

chopah wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

EPL wrote:

Not a great game by any stretch.

IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey. 

NC were far better technically. Their short game was good. The were prepared to play through and or around. Ver seldom long or over the top.

The 2 best players on the park were the NC #10 and #18. Clever, strong NZ couldn't cope with them. Roll on Fiji.

One other thing Sky..You need to move Fred and Harry Ngata on..with the greatest respect they are mono tone, no enthusiasm for the game. Their tactical appreciation is sadly lacking. Fred is just down tight boring!!

Put chotey alongside Piney.

Pretty sure OFC hired the commentators for this game

OFC had nothing to do with producing the broadcast. It was all on the host broadcaster (New Caledonia). Assume Sky sent their own commentators over.

Also, Harry wasn't on the coverage. It was Gordon Watson who I thought did an excellent job. Agree with comments about Fred though.

So good, such an arrogant and confident reply only to be made to look like a muppet... but woah watch out Chopah, I dont know how Patrick will take being wrong (even though he is half the time). Don't make him look like too much of a fool or he'll ban you!

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
about 17 years

Hard News wrote:

Cole Peverley (although i think he is injured).  Alex Rufer.

Wait- you're not advocating Peverley for AWs are you?

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

chopah wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

EPL wrote:

Not a great game by any stretch.

IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey. 

NC were far better technically. Their short game was good. The were prepared to play through and or around. Ver seldom long or over the top.

The 2 best players on the park were the NC #10 and #18. Clever, strong NZ couldn't cope with them. Roll on Fiji.

One other thing Sky..You need to move Fred and Harry Ngata on..with the greatest respect they are mono tone, no enthusiasm for the game. Their tactical appreciation is sadly lacking. Fred is just down tight boring!!

Put chotey alongside Piney.

Pretty sure OFC hired the commentators for this game

OFC had nothing to do with producing the broadcast. It was all on the host broadcaster (New Caledonia). Assume Sky sent their own commentators over.

Also, Harry wasn't on the coverage. It was Gordon Watson who I thought did an excellent job. Agree with comments about Fred though.

Happy to be corrected! My apologies.
Marquee
7.4K
·
9.5K
·
over 13 years

The story from Hudson all along is we're going to the world cup and we're going to do better (which I take it means get out of our group). Australia used to put 7 past these teams and couldn't get to a world cup, how can we expect to do the same if we struggle to a draw?

Early retirement
3.1K
·
34K
·
about 17 years

Feverish wrote:

Wait- you're not advocating Peverley for AWs are you?

If the other options are our absent midfield from last night yes.  It was tongue in cheek but he's put in better SS Premiership shifts in the last two years than players that were in that squad.

I also go back to my point last night that if New Caledonia could try and play football with ostensibly a lesser squad than why the fudge couldn't we?

Starting XI
900
·
2.5K
·
over 12 years

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

EPL wrote:

Not a great game by any stretch.

IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey. 

NC were far better technically. Their short game was good. The were prepared to play through and or around. Ver seldom long or over the top.

The 2 best players on the park were the NC #10 and #18. Clever, strong NZ couldn't cope with them. Roll on Fiji.

One other thing Sky..You need to move Fred and Harry Ngata on..with the greatest respect they are mono tone, no enthusiasm for the game. Their tactical appreciation is sadly lacking. Fred is just down tight boring!!

Put chotey alongside Piney.

Pretty sure OFC hired the commentators for this game

OFC had nothing to do with producing the broadcast. It was all on the host broadcaster (New Caledonia). Assume Sky sent their own commentators over.

Also, Harry wasn't on the coverage. It was Gordon Watson who I thought did an excellent job. Agree with comments about Fred though.

Happy to be corrected! My apologies.

all good mate - I wasn't sure myself so I went with what you said - it's only when I was reading this story from GGW that I noticed that bit.

Starting XI
1.8K
·
4.1K
·
about 17 years

Hard News wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Wait- you're not advocating Peverley for AWs are you?

If the other options are our absent midfield from last night yes.  It was tongue in cheek but he's put in better SS Premiership shifts in the last two years than players that were in that squad.

I also go back to my point last night that if New Caledonia could try and play football with ostensibly a lesser squad than why the fudge couldn't we?

Peverley makes the SS prem look easy and when the Phoenix were in the habit of playing Manny in midfield I watched Peverley make him look like a clown in a pre season game. I mean, he wasn't just better, it wasn't even a competition and Manny knew it too.  Could you say the same about some of the others we've seen on board recently? 

Marquee
2.1K
·
8.2K
·
about 17 years

reg22 wrote:

Hard News wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Wait- you're not advocating Peverley for AWs are you?

If the other options are our absent midfield from last night yes.  It was tongue in cheek but he's put in better SS Premiership shifts in the last two years than players that were in that squad.

I also go back to my point last night that if New Caledonia could try and play football with ostensibly a lesser squad than why the fudge couldn't we?

Peverley makes the SS prem look easy and when the Phoenix were in the habit of playing Manny in midfield I watched Peverley make him look like a clown in a pre season game. I mean, he wasn't just better, it wasn't even a competition and Manny knew it too.  Could you say the same about some of the others we've seen on board recently? 

I don't like slagging off young guys but I watched Lewis pretty closely on Saturday and he did look out of his depth, he just gave the ball away far too freely.  I also think Liam Graham's passing is a bit of a worry.  We can't build pressure in the final third

Legend
260
·
120K
·
almost 15 years

I'll wade into this carefully to help fill in some rather large blanks. I'm not going to comment on the referee’s performance because it's very easy to throw stones. I can tell you from my own experience I did New Cal v Tahiti in Honiara in 2012 Nations Cup, sent 2 off that were wrong decisions and was sent home. I was one of the more experienced officials behind O'Leary. GGW and Miles Davis were there commentating scratching their heads, 2nd Best watched from stands and even Patrick lamented about my shocker so I know first-hand about how to stuff up a WCQ and how easy it is to do that.

To pull back the curtain a little you must understand one thing - there is no money in refereeing. There is no one out there looking to put money into refereeing and there are no sponsors lining up. There are no professional referees in OFC/NZ and there will not be... probably ever. All the money in football goes into teams/players. In the Islands, people with money get a lot of mana/honour/power in sponsoring the local team. I have no issue with that as it is what it is and as a fan, it’s not about us referees. It does seem though that the public expect a matching level of performance and it does become about us when it all goes wrong.

The best example of this I can give you is that the referees enter a car in a Formula one race. All the 10 teams are kitted up and ready to roll with these machines that are capable of incredible things. In the back of the grid is the referee’s car that looks like a Flintstone mobile. That Flintstone mobile is expected to be competitive and when they are not, well what the hell is going on man!!! If the Flintstone mobile somehow does well, then everyone goes 'See? You don't need resources cause you are going well!' It’s the exception, not the norm. When you understand that, you then understand the problem in general.

Generally, the referees in the islands get very limited opportunities to get any kind of meaningful experience and coaching. Most of them are given a FIFA badge and get their 1st real dose of coaching at an OFC tournament. I have heard of a couple of guys that got their badge in their 2nd year of refereeing. For most in NZ, you would probably be looking to get into lower men’s leagues in your 2nd year let alone have a badge to referee at international level. These guys are very quiet and shy/humble people generally but such lovely guys to talk with and softly spoken. Regrettably, their personality style is not made for big stadium matches with pressure and fans going nuts. When you put them in a room with other referees on a coaching course and looking for feedback, they barely say anything because in their culture, it’s better to be silent than speak and be wrong. So how then do you give these guys the coaching they need and get them to open up? It’s very difficult. 3 of the last 4 RDOs for OFC have been from NZ (Ken Wallace, then Massimo Raveino from Tahiti, then Mark Hester (not Mike) and now its job shared between Kevin Stoltenkamp and Neil Poloso from Solomon Islands I believe) Kevin is new to the role but having seen Mark and Ken in action, they are both very good. The standard of football on their national leagues is generally the 1st 10 mins of helter skelter, the heat and lack of fitness kicks in, and then 80 mins of hoofball and tackles that come about because of tiredness. There is no assessor to give then the coaching they need to say 'hey man, this is incorrect' and as a team, they will not criticise each other cause it’s not in their culture. Any assessor that is there will generally say 'very good no issues'

With WCQ, neutrality is insisted upon by FIFA. There is no compromise on that. You can't use officials from NZ as they are in that pool so you look around at who you can use from the available countries that are neutral and can referee the game. Do you get in officials from Australia? Ok who pays for that? What budget does it come from? If it comes from referee’s budget, does that mean you have to cancel a couple of coaching courses to pay for that? If so, that’s coaching the guys need that’s taken away but then for that WCQ game..... You get in referees from Australia and you take away the limited opportunities OFC referees get. OFC officials don't venture out of OFC. Peter O'Leary was invited to the AFC Cup and that was probably the only time I know of. So then how do you get these guys experience on bigger matches? Judging by the responses on here we need better officials but no one has the answer as to HOW THIS SHOULD HAPPEN once you take away the limited opportunities to improve them and it goes around in circles.

It’s all a balancing act that no one really sees but the simple line is 'oh we need better referees'. It’s not that easy because there are so many elements in play that a lot of it conspires against this happening. All except money. It’s the root of all evil but would fix a lot of issues in referee world and provide so many more resources to help all these referees improve.

and 6 others
Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

chopah wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

chopah wrote:

EPL wrote:

Not a great game by any stretch.

IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey. 

NC were far better technically. Their short game was good. The were prepared to play through and or around. Ver seldom long or over the top.

The 2 best players on the park were the NC #10 and #18. Clever, strong NZ couldn't cope with them. Roll on Fiji.

One other thing Sky..You need to move Fred and Harry Ngata on..with the greatest respect they are mono tone, no enthusiasm for the game. Their tactical appreciation is sadly lacking. Fred is just down tight boring!!

Put chotey alongside Piney.

Pretty sure OFC hired the commentators for this game

OFC had nothing to do with producing the broadcast. It was all on the host broadcaster (New Caledonia). Assume Sky sent their own commentators over.

Also, Harry wasn't on the coverage. It was Gordon Watson who I thought did an excellent job. Agree with comments about Fred though.

Happy to be corrected! My apologies.

all good mate - I wasn't sure myself so I went with what you said - it's only when I was reading this story from GGW that I noticed that bit.

Yeah I had seen a tweet from OFC saying that because NC and NZ were broadcasting the game, they wouldn't be. Assumed that meant they had nothing to do with broadcast which was wrong, sorry!
Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

Chris Kerr wrote:
snip

Very well written Chris. You lament about the lack of money, but there's no shortage of money floating around OFC. Biggest issue is that people in charge of things prefer to stroke their own ego's with shark like the Presidents Cup rather than putting it where it would actually help.

Not just a refereeing issue either - look at this year's Nations Cup. Port Moresby has 4 stadiums, one of which is literally right outside the stadium used for the ONC games and good enough for Fifa to play U20 WWC games there. Yet they play every single game of the tournament on the one pitch - as well as a bunch of meaningless games in a completely unrelated tournament during the same week.

So much incompetence at OFC, which unfortunately puts a shade on the people there who are actually good at what they do (and that is most of them).

Not to say that NZF is not partly to blame here - why the fudge did we not just put out our best XI? Chose to play no midfield while we left Bill and Themi on the bench. Astounding.

We didn't fail to win yesterday because of the refereeing.

Legend
7.4K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

Didn't think the refereeing was that bad to be honest? Only saw the second half, but seemed to get all the major decisions right, didn't miss a heck of a lot and allowed the game to flow?

Could possibly have cautioned Boxall or given a foul against him for his push on Kai, but we see worse not given in the A-league each game day.

I thought the reffing I saw was an improvement on the A-league! Our last A-league game had two CCM freebie free-kicks given right at the end of the halves and much of a similiar standard treated quite differently. Which is nothing out of the ordinary for the league. 

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

Biggest concern with the reffing for mine was that all four officials (including the fourth official) ran over to be in the middle of the dust up before the red card was shown!

4th official literally ran 50 meters across the field to become involved. Much better to watch from a distance in case anything happens away from the middle of the action. Reeks of inexperience for mine.

Starting XI
1.8K
·
4.1K
·
about 17 years

Chris Kerr wrote:

I'll wade into this carefully to help fill in some rather large blanks. I'm not going to comment on the referee’s performance because it's very easy to throw stones. I can tell you from my own experience I did New Cal v Tahiti in Honiara in 2012 Nations Cup, sent 2 off that were wrong decisions and was sent home. I was one of the more experienced officials behind O'Leary. GGW and Miles Davis were there commentating scratching their heads, 2nd Best watched from stands and even Patrick lamented about my shocker so I know first-hand about how to stuff up a WCQ and how easy it is to do that.

To pull back the curtain a little you must understand one thing - there is no money in refereeing. There is no one out there looking to put money into refereeing and there are no sponsors lining up. There are no professional referees in OFC/NZ and there will not be... probably ever. All the money in football goes into teams/players. In the Islands, people with money get a lot of mana/honour/power in sponsoring the local team. I have no issue with that as it is what it is and as a fan, it’s not about us referees. It does seem though that the public expect a matching level of performance and it does become about us when it all goes wrong.

The best example of this I can give you is that the referees enter a car in a Formula one race. All the 10 teams are kitted up and ready to roll with these machines that are capable of incredible things. In the back of the grid is the referee’s car that looks like a Flintstone mobile. That Flintstone mobile is expected to be competitive and when they are not, well what the hell is going on man!!! If the Flintstone mobile somehow does well, then everyone goes 'See? You don't need resources cause you are going well!' It’s the exception, not the norm. When you understand that, you then understand the problem in general.

Generally, the referees in the islands get very limited opportunities to get any kind of meaningful experience and coaching. Most of them are given a FIFA badge and get their 1st real dose of coaching at an OFC tournament. I have heard of a couple of guys that got their badge in their 2nd year of refereeing. For most in NZ, you would probably be looking to get into lower men’s leagues in your 2nd year let alone have a badge to referee at international level. These guys are very quiet and shy/humble people generally but such lovely guys to talk with and softly spoken. Regrettably, their personality style is not made for big stadium matches with pressure and fans going nuts. When you put them in a room with other referees on a coaching course and looking for feedback, they barely say anything because in their culture, it’s better to be silent than speak and be wrong. So how then do you give these guys the coaching they need and get them to open up? It’s very difficult. 3 of the last 4 RDOs for OFC have been from NZ (Ken Wallace, then Massimo Raveino from Tahiti, then Mark Hester (not Mike) and now its job shared between Kevin Stoltenkamp and Neil Poloso from Solomon Islands I believe) Kevin is new to the role but having seen Mark and Ken in action, they are both very good. The standard of football on their national leagues is generally the 1st 10 mins of helter skelter, the heat and lack of fitness kicks in, and then 80 mins of hoofball and tackles that come about because of tiredness. There is no assessor to give then the coaching they need to say 'hey man, this is incorrect' and as a team, they will not criticise each other cause it’s not in their culture. Any assessor that is there will generally say 'very good no issues'

With WCQ, neutrality is insisted upon by FIFA. There is no compromise on that. You can't use officials from NZ as they are in that pool so you look around at who you can use from the available countries that are neutral and can referee the game. Do you get in officials from Australia? Ok who pays for that? What budget does it come from? If it comes from referee’s budget, does that mean you have to cancel a couple of coaching courses to pay for that? If so, that’s coaching the guys need that’s taken away but then for that WCQ game..... You get in referees from Australia and you take away the limited opportunities OFC referees get. OFC officials don't venture out of OFC. Peter O'Leary was invited to the AFC Cup and that was probably the only time I know of. So then how do you get these guys experience on bigger matches? Judging by the responses on here we need better officials but no one has the answer as to HOW THIS SHOULD HAPPEN once you take away the limited opportunities to improve them and it goes around in circles.

It’s all a balancing act that no one really sees but the simple line is 'oh we need better referees'. It’s not that easy because there are so many elements in play that a lot of it conspires against this happening. All except money. It’s the root of all evil but would fix a lot of issues in referee world and provide so many more resources to help all these referees improve.

that's an awesome post chris

Cock
2.7K
·
16K
·
almost 15 years
I'm intrigued how this compares locally. What money is in refereeing in NZ? You would think for the ASBP or whatever is calls itself now, that you would sell advertising on referees shirts that generate income because it's now on TV. Does OFC consider this when the product is on TV in different markets and they sell the rights to help fund their program? After all, they broadcast it so know where it goes to. Southern got a boat to pay Irish guys in what's meant to be an amateur competition because of TV so there will be businesses wanting to get their logos on the front of referee shirts surely. Specsavers seems to be the rage...
Trialist
62
·
48
·
over 10 years

So come Mar20 next year away at Fiji, All Whites need a draw/win to make the return game Mar27 in Welly one where a win would seal it (or draw, if they won game in Fiji). 

If Fiji win one game in that home-away though it would give them (and NewCal) a shot at winning group in their home-away series in Jun17. 

Tahiti & Solomons all square with a win each in other group so one with best record vs PNG next year progresses to group winner home-away playoff for Oceania with that winner to meet 5th placed South American team this time next year. 

Clear enough I hope?!

Phoenix Academy
82
·
400
·
over 10 years

Chris Kerr wrote:

I'll wade into this carefully to help fill in some rather large blanks. I'm not going to comment on the referee’s performance because it's very easy to throw stones. I can tell you from my own experience I did New Cal v Tahiti in Honiara in 2012 Nations Cup, sent 2 off that were wrong decisions and was sent home. I was one of the more experienced officials behind O'Leary. GGW and Miles Davis were there commentating scratching their heads, 2nd Best watched from stands and even Patrick lamented about my shocker so I know first-hand about how to stuff up a WCQ and how easy it is to do that.

To pull back the curtain a little you must understand one thing - there is no money in refereeing. There is no one out there looking to put money into refereeing and there are no sponsors lining up. There are no professional referees in OFC/NZ and there will not be... probably ever. All the money in football goes into teams/players. In the Islands, people with money get a lot of mana/honour/power in sponsoring the local team. I have no issue with that as it is what it is and as a fan, it’s not about us referees. It does seem though that the public expect a matching level of performance and it does become about us when it all goes wrong.

The best example of this I can give you is that the referees enter a car in a Formula one race. All the 10 teams are kitted up and ready to roll with these machines that are capable of incredible things. In the back of the grid is the referee’s car that looks like a Flintstone mobile. That Flintstone mobile is expected to be competitive and when they are not, well what the hell is going on man!!! If the Flintstone mobile somehow does well, then everyone goes 'See? You don't need resources cause you are going well!' It’s the exception, not the norm. When you understand that, you then understand the problem in general.

Generally, the referees in the islands get very limited opportunities to get any kind of meaningful experience and coaching. Most of them are given a FIFA badge and get their 1st real dose of coaching at an OFC tournament. I have heard of a couple of guys that got their badge in their 2nd year of refereeing. For most in NZ, you would probably be looking to get into lower men’s leagues in your 2nd year let alone have a badge to referee at international level. These guys are very quiet and shy/humble people generally but such lovely guys to talk with and softly spoken. Regrettably, their personality style is not made for big stadium matches with pressure and fans going nuts. When you put them in a room with other referees on a coaching course and looking for feedback, they barely say anything because in their culture, it’s better to be silent than speak and be wrong. So how then do you give these guys the coaching they need and get them to open up? It’s very difficult. 3 of the last 4 RDOs for OFC have been from NZ (Ken Wallace, then Massimo Raveino from Tahiti, then Mark Hester (not Mike) and now its job shared between Kevin Stoltenkamp and Neil Poloso from Solomon Islands I believe) Kevin is new to the role but having seen Mark and Ken in action, they are both very good. The standard of football on their national leagues is generally the 1st 10 mins of helter skelter, the heat and lack of fitness kicks in, and then 80 mins of hoofball and tackles that come about because of tiredness. There is no assessor to give then the coaching they need to say 'hey man, this is incorrect' and as a team, they will not criticise each other cause it’s not in their culture. Any assessor that is there will generally say 'very good no issues'

With WCQ, neutrality is insisted upon by FIFA. There is no compromise on that. You can't use officials from NZ as they are in that pool so you look around at who you can use from the available countries that are neutral and can referee the game. Do you get in officials from Australia? Ok who pays for that? What budget does it come from? If it comes from referee’s budget, does that mean you have to cancel a couple of coaching courses to pay for that? If so, that’s coaching the guys need that’s taken away but then for that WCQ game..... You get in referees from Australia and you take away the limited opportunities OFC referees get. OFC officials don't venture out of OFC. Peter O'Leary was invited to the AFC Cup and that was probably the only time I know of. So then how do you get these guys experience on bigger matches? Judging by the responses on here we need better officials but no one has the answer as to HOW THIS SHOULD HAPPEN once you take away the limited opportunities to improve them and it goes around in circles.

It’s all a balancing act that no one really sees but the simple line is 'oh we need better referees'. It’s not that easy because there are so many elements in play that a lot of it conspires against this happening. All except money. It’s the root of all evil but would fix a lot of issues in referee world and provide so many more resources to help all these referees improve.

This is one of the most intelligent and insightful posts I've seen on this forum. Thanks Chris!

Marquee
1.3K
·
5.3K
·
almost 17 years

Re: ofc referees, the a league should invite a non nz ofc ref every so often.

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

Bullion wrote:

Re: ofc referees, the a league should invite a non nz ofc ref every so often.

Maybe to be the fourth official, but the standards asked of Australian and NZ officials is so high that I very much doubt a random OFC official will make the grade anytime soon.
Legend
7.4K
·
15K
·
almost 17 years

patrick478 wrote:

Bullion wrote:

Re: ofc referees, the a league should invite a non nz ofc ref every so often.

Maybe to be the fourth official, but the standards asked of Australian and NZ officials is so high that I very much doubt a random OFC official will make the grade anytime soon.

not sure if serious.

I remember Neil Fox doing a traffic light display and dishing out cards left, right and centre in a ASBP or precursor game and also anything Ben WIlliams every did.

Phoenix Academy
71
·
200
·
almost 10 years

Jaume wrote:

'IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey'.

I would add Thomas to that list

No way can you add Thomas to that list. He plays in the second best division out of all the All Whites. He's being mismanaged and played too deep.

This is the problem with New Zealand. We immediately assume that because someone (in this case Thomas) plays in a 'good' league they must play for the All Whites!!!!

Have any of the management actually been to watch Thomas play lately or, and I am guessing here, is he just in the squad/team because of who he plays for? That's not good enough. Hudson should be picking players that fit into his system (if he really has one) and not pick a player because he plays for a good team and then try to find a space for him on the pitch.

Im sure that Thomas is a good player but if you are not going to play him in his best position then he shouldnt be in the team. The football world is littered with coaches that pick the best 11 players and then try to make a team out of them. It should be the other way around. You look at the way you want to play and the formation you want to use and then pick the right players for each position and if that means certain players miss out because there is someone else (better perhaps) in that position so be it. 

Starting XI
500
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2.1K
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over 14 years

That's not good enough. Hudson should be picking players that fit into his system (if he really has one) and not pick a player because he plays for a good team and then try to find a space for him on the pitch.

Absolutely on the money, other than we should be sacking Hudson, for the 'system' he plays, and most of the board of NZ Football for persisting with it. Shuffling Thomas into a Deep lying midfield role was quite ridiculous.

Legend
260
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120K
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almost 15 years

Jeff Vader wrote:
I'm intrigued how this compares locally. What money is in refereeing in NZ? You would think for the ASBP or whatever is calls itself now, that you would sell advertising on referees shirts that generate income because it's now on TV. Does OFC consider this when the product is on TV in different markets and they sell the rights to help fund their program? After all, they broadcast it so know where it goes to. Southern got a boat to pay Irish guys in what's meant to be an amateur competition because of TV so there will be businesses wanting to get their logos on the front of referee shirts surely. Specsavers seems to be the rage...
With respect to the fact that I am still an active official on the SSP as its now known, I'm not gonna touch that at all.. Talk to NZF, read their financial statements, get involved in your local federation and ask questions. Become an active proponent for referees. Nothing changes if you do nothing and expect different outcomes.
Phoenix Academy
240
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360
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over 10 years

Chris Kerr wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:
I'm intrigued how this compares locally. What money is in refereeing in NZ? You would think for the ASBP or whatever is calls itself now, that you would sell advertising on referees shirts that generate income because it's now on TV. Does OFC consider this when the product is on TV in different markets and they sell the rights to help fund their program? After all, they broadcast it so know where it goes to. Southern got a boat to pay Irish guys in what's meant to be an amateur competition because of TV so there will be businesses wanting to get their logos on the front of referee shirts surely. Specsavers seems to be the rage...
With respect to the fact that I am still an active official on the SSP as its now known, I'm not gonna touch that at all.. Talk to NZF, read their financial statements, get involved in your local federation and ask questions. Become an active proponent for referees. Nothing changes if you do nothing and expect different outcomes.

Really interesting post Chris (the first one). One of my main frustrations about the officiating over the 2 games was the corner from Saturday. As a football fan it is simple things like that which become really annoying and make the game look very amateur

WeeNix
230
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620
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over 9 years

I think one of the main issues the AW have is a scoring problem. Since Hudson took charge, the AW have played 15 matches, in which they have scored 18 goals, which is barely more than a goal per match considering 7 of those matches have been against the Islands and . 8 times it's been only one (Uzbekistan, China, Myanmar, Oman, Solomon Islands, New Caledonia, Mexico and USA), four times there was no goal (Thailand, South Korea, PNG, New Caledonia) and only three times we found the back of net more than once (Fiji -3-, Vanuatu -5- y New Caledonia -2-). When you see it that way, 10 from those 18 goals came from 3 of the 15 matches. In the others 12 there's been only 8 goals. 

The goalscorers have been:

Wood 6

Rojas 3

Fallon 2

Tzimopoulos 1

McGlinchey 1

Barbarouses 1

Adams 1

Patterson 1

Brockie 1

Smeltz 1

So the only two players who have been able to score in a regular basis have been Wood and Rojas. And I think that's the most concerning thing, we have no replacement for Wood nor another player who can find the net when we need it. If he doesn't score, the most probable thing is that we end the match with just one goal or no goal at all. Brockie has been awful for the AW but Smeltz doesn't seem to be one of Hudson's favourite despite been a proved goalscorer. And the Fallon thing is out of the question IMO, he's a bench warmer for a team in the England 6th tier, but for some reason he is still getting picked. But more than a player issue I think this is a team issue, clearly the way we play is made to not concede, but not thought to score and win matches, which is what we need against the Islands in the WCQ matches.

Marquee
4.1K
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5.6K
·
almost 12 years

Do people forget we are New Zealand?

WeeNix
780
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750
·
over 9 years

Jaume wrote:

'IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey'.

I would add Thomas to that list

No way can you add Thomas to that list. He plays in the second best division out of all the All Whites. He's being mismanaged and played too deep.

This is the problem with New Zealand. We immediately assume that because someone (in this case Thomas) plays in a 'good' league they must play for the All Whites!!!!

Have any of the management actually been to watch Thomas play lately or, and I am guessing here, is he just in the squad/team because of who he plays for? That's not good enough. Hudson should be picking players that fit into his system (if he really has one) and not pick a player because he plays for a good team and then try to find a space for him on the pitch.

Im sure that Thomas is a good player but if you are not going to play him in his best position then he shouldnt be in the team. The football world is littered with coaches that pick the best 11 players and then try to make a team out of them. It should be the other way around. You look at the way you want to play and the formation you want to use and then pick the right players for each position and if that means certain players miss out because there is someone else (better perhaps) in that position so be it. 

Understand your points but NZ doesnt have a wealth of talent available and Herbert came up with his 3-4-3 effort because in his words it was the only way he could get all his best players on the pitch. 

Marquee
7.4K
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9.5K
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over 13 years

Yeah, in nz you don't have the luxury of choosing players to fit a system, you need to choose a system to fit your players.

Phoenix Academy
71
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200
·
almost 10 years

AlfStamp wrote:

Jaume wrote:

'IMO to many players not good enough to be internationals.

Monty Paterson, Dyer, Hudson Wi Hongi, Liam Graham, Kip Kelvey'.

I would add Thomas to that list

No way can you add Thomas to that list. He plays in the second best division out of all the All Whites. He's being mismanaged and played too deep.

This is the problem with New Zealand. We immediately assume that because someone (in this case Thomas) plays in a 'good' league they must play for the All Whites!!!!

Have any of the management actually been to watch Thomas play lately or, and I am guessing here, is he just in the squad/team because of who he plays for? That's not good enough. Hudson should be picking players that fit into his system (if he really has one) and not pick a player because he plays for a good team and then try to find a space for him on the pitch.

Im sure that Thomas is a good player but if you are not going to play him in his best position then he shouldnt be in the team. The football world is littered with coaches that pick the best 11 players and then try to make a team out of them. It should be the other way around. You look at the way you want to play and the formation you want to use and then pick the right players for each position and if that means certain players miss out because there is someone else (better perhaps) in that position so be it. 

Understand your points but NZ doesnt have a wealth of talent available and Herbert came up with his 3-4-3 effort because in his words it was the only way he could get all his best players on the pitch. 

Sorry but I simply do not accept that. It doesn't have to be a pool of talent in NZ as there are plenty of Kiwi players around the world. Having said that I am sure that a good coach eg Ramon could get together 16 NZ based players and after a weeks training beat any of the island teams with ease.

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
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15K
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over 14 years

Having said that I am sure that a good coach eg Ramon could get together 16 NZ based players and after a weeks training beat any of the island teams with ease.

Ramon needs his Spaniards in order to do well.
Phoenix Academy
71
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200
·
almost 10 years

patrick478 wrote:

Having said that I am sure that a good coach eg Ramon could get together 16 NZ based players and after a weeks training beat any of the island teams with ease.

Ramon needs his Spaniards in order to do well.

he certainly likes a 'few' foreign players in his teams but I am sure that if allowed to pick any 16 players from NZ he could groom them to beat all the island teams and qualify for the play offs

Marquee
970
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6.5K
·
over 11 years

patrick478 wrote:

[quote=accrington stanley]

Having said that I am sure that a good coach eg Ramon could get together 16 NZ based players and after a weeks   6 weeks training beat any of the island teams with ease.

fixed

Marquee
970
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6.5K
·
over 11 years

Costa Rica 4 US 0

Looks like the US's turn to have their horror in Honiara" type moment. And add some. Two games played, nul points. Bottom of the Hex.

Legend
2.5K
·
17K
·
about 17 years

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Costa Rica 4 US 0

Looks like the US's turn to have their horror in Honiara" type moment. And add some. Two games played, nul points. Bottom of the Hex.

Not really the same though, is it? Losing to a team whose captain plays for Real Madrid vs losing to a team whose captain played for AS Mont-Dore.

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