wood needed to do better then
If you like to compete in a world cup, you have to better, simple as that.
Yep, even Paolo Rossi (versus Brazil in '82) would've scored there. Shins and all.
All Whites vs Peru | Second leg | Thurs 16 Nov | 3:15pm | SS1
They don't deserve anything. The standard of football in Oceania compared to the rest of the world is pathetic.
It'd be terrible preparation for the WC Finals if we had automatic qualification. Where would the tough games be? (as Valeo alluded to in a prior post).
We couldn't trust FIFA with this anyway, remember how they balked on Oceania's automatic path in 2006? One moment we thought the winner of the Socceroos v All Whites games would be enough, 'nek minute' we were confronted with the fifth place South American side.
I'm glad the players had more bollocks that some of you and Martin have, calling it an embarrassment and saying how intimidating a few jet planes can be...Martin played the same card for the travelling supporters too, if you felt intimidated by a plane flyover then you definitely shouldn't be travelling to a football ground.
I think intimidating is the wrong word. Disrupting is the right one.
The video above showed the planes circling the hotel in the morning. I actually don't have too much of a problem with that, although jets are fudgeing noisy.
The fighter jets in isolation would be fine, as you say it was just a bit of a stunt and probably relatively good natured.
The fireworks in isolation would be fine as well.
But when you start to add everything together it gets a bit much. The thing I have most of a problem with is actually the issue with the flight being redirected to Chile. That goes beyond banter and shows the Peruvian government actively disrupting preparations.
I'm glad the players had more bollocks that some of you and Martin have, calling it an embarrassment and saying how intimidating a few jet planes can be...Martin played the same card for the travelling supporters too, if you felt intimidated by a plane flyover then you definitely shouldn't be travelling to a football ground.
I was genuinely expecting the nz anthem to be booed...but it wasnt further illustrating that as bad as it seems the intimidation was actually very tame as far as south America goes...
I think intimidating is the wrong word. Disrupting is the right one.
The video above showed the planes circling the hotel in the morning. I actually don't have too much of a problem with that, although jets are fudgeing noisy.
The fighter jets in isolation would be fine, as you say it was just a bit of a stunt and probably relatively good natured.
The fireworks in isolation would be fine as well.
But when you start to add everything together it gets a bit much. The thing I have most of a problem with is actually the issue with the flights.
that's fair enough
disruptive I think is a good term for the shenanigans
I would be interested to hear how kiwi fans were treated
So the Peru fans took the whole laser eye kiwi thing pretty figuratively.
I would be interested to hear how kiwi fans were treated
As good as gold (as long as Peru won) I'd imagine.
So the Peru fans took the whole laser eye kiwi thing pretty figuratively.
But they obviously worked it around to suit themselves. The laser is supposed to beam out from the kiwi and towards its target.
I don't think anyone expected the air force to open fire - I mean that would start a war wouldn't it?
It's more a case of wondering whether any consideration was given in regards to player (and citizen!) welfare when you decide to fly war planes low over the city solely to intimidate the opposition. If they'd put on a whole show, with colors, ribbons etc that would have been different, and I'm sure they would have had a whole safety plan in place.
Somehow I get the feeling this mission was more 'spur of the moment' which again begs the question of what on earth would have happened if an accident took place and the sole reason to fly the planes was to scare us off.
We lost to a better team, we get it, we saw the game too.
But to say it's perfectly fine to do all these immoral things to intimidate and get extra advantage from outside the pitch, and that we shouldn't complain because that's just naivete, well, that's just laughable really.
And to blame ourselves for it happening because of Martin's comments, even more laughable.
Go and re-read those comments. You know what? HE WAS 100% CORRECT. And given this hindsight, we should have done exactly what they did to us! If I knew what was going to go on, hell, I would've been outside the Peruvian hotel letting off fireworks!
Now also go and re-read that open letter Stuff published from the Peruvian guy. Many people praised it, and said "yea f*ck you Martin" (INCLUDING ME!). Now here we are, and that open letter has been proven to be an absolute joke. It was probably just to stop us doing things here I guess, while all along they were always going to do their sh*tty things.
In hindsight, the real naivete we are displaying here is that we didn't do this stuff to them first.
I would be interested to hear how kiwi fans were treated
As good as gold (as long as Peru won) I'd imagine.
Yep, if social media is anything to go by.
I would have feared for their safety had we won.
I've seen a lot of comment saying the NZ team played bad, only played hoofball, completely outclassed etc. Crap!
I think we did really really well in this play-off series and played best we could with the various cards we'd been dealt with. With just a wee bit of better luck with injuries, bounce of the ball and ref calls it could have been quite different. Sure Peru held the ball a lot and had technically better skills but at the end of the day the final score was only 2-0 with them having 60% possession and they only got their second goal relatively late in the game. We had some good chances too but didn't get the the bounce of the ball on those occasions. How about giving our guys some credit where its due. Sure Peru were more snazzy with heaps more possession but still they only got 2 - not 5 or 6 or 7! We were still well in it for most of the game.
We did well all things considered.
I don't think anyone expected the air force to open fire - I mean that would start a war wouldn't it?
The fact it happened in Latin America still left me feeling very uncomfortable with this flyover.
I think intimidating is the wrong word. Disrupting is the right one.
The video above showed the planes circling the hotel in the morning. I actually don't have too much of a problem with that, although jets are fudgeing noisy.
The fighter jets in isolation would be fine, as you say it was just a bit of a stunt and probably relatively good natured.
The fireworks in isolation would be fine as well.
But when you start to add everything together it gets a bit much. The thing I have most of a problem with is actually the issue with the flight being redirected to Chile. That goes beyond banter and shows the Peruvian government actively disrupting preparations.
The laser pointing is what i would take issue with, given the long term damage it can potentially do when shone in someone's eye(s), think that's pretty low.
Otherwise not much issue with the rest (fireworks, jets etc.).
I think intimidating is the wrong word. Disrupting is the right one.
The video above showed the planes circling the hotel in the morning. I actually don't have too much of a problem with that, although jets are fudgeing noisy.
The fighter jets in isolation would be fine, as you say it was just a bit of a stunt and probably relatively good natured.
The fireworks in isolation would be fine as well.
But when you start to add everything together it gets a bit much. The thing I have most of a problem with is actually the issue with the flights.
that's fair enough
disruptive I think is a good term for the shenanigans
I would be interested to hear how kiwi fans were treated
From what every Kiwi fan who was there that I follow on social media has said, they couldn't have been treated any better
Anthem wasn't booed or whistled, home fans happy to say hi and ask for photos, we were seated with the home fans in a non-segregated area. Given we got beat 2-0 so that did make it all easy.
In regards to Martins comments, I was solely referring to his concerns for travelling supporters due to the flyover.
I don't think anyone expected the air force to open fire - I mean that would start a war wouldn't it?
It's more a case of wondering whether any consideration was given in regards to player (and citizen!) welfare when you decide to fly war planes low over the city solely to intimidate the opposition. If they'd put on a whole show, with colors, ribbons etc that would have been different, and I'm sure they would have had a whole safety plan in place.
Somehow I get the feeling this mission was more 'spur of the moment' which again begs the question of what on earth would have happened if an accident took place and the sole reason to fly the planes was to scare us off.
the wings were painted so maybe they put more thought into it. I have to say that if I saw jet planes flying above me, I would probably think that's pretty cool. not how safe it is
but that could just be me
I think intimidating is the wrong word. Disrupting is the right one.
The video above showed the planes circling the hotel in the morning. I actually don't have too much of a problem with that, although jets are fudgeing noisy.
The fighter jets in isolation would be fine, as you say it was just a bit of a stunt and probably relatively good natured.
The fireworks in isolation would be fine as well.
But when you start to add everything together it gets a bit much. The thing I have most of a problem with is actually the issue with the flight being redirected to Chile. That goes beyond banter and shows the Peruvian government actively disrupting preparations.
That's pretty much how I see it too.
The fireworks and noise, not totally unexpected, what I suspect And Martin predicted.
The military jets, in isolation, kinda funny in its own weird way.
The redirection of the plane by the Peruvian government, crossing a line, proving a lack of good sportsmanship.
The lasers in the players faces on the pitch. completely unacceptable.
All of these together, kinda fudgeed up.
I cant help but feel that the people who condemned Andy Martins words for suggesting Peru might disrupt us, should be against Peru now for doing the things that they adamantly opposed Andy Martin for suggesting they might do.
But it seems like some of those people are blaming Andy Martin for Peru's actions. And it's not just their fans.
NZ set the precedent of how to treat the players last weekend. They saw on the first leg we did nothing like this, they escalated it.
It would be totally a different kettle of fish if we were the second leg, and Peru only had And Martins words to gauge how we as fans might act, but they weren't. They knew we didn't do this stuff, after playing the victim int he media about how mean it was for Andy Martin to suggest they might do this shark.
I think that's what grinds my gears the most. They played the "NZ is so darn mean for suggesting we might be a bit roudy and noisy and disruptive", then they do it.
Yep, if social media is anything to go by.
I would have feared for their safety had we won.
We'd have at least expected some serious 'spitting and jostling', from some hardcore fans. We know things are more intense over there, but even here (Australia and NZ) there's some fans that are spoiling for a fight.
My last international game was Socceroos v Uruguay in 2005. It was a festival atmosphere but there was still isolated groups (no bigger than 3 or 4 really) who were not in the right spirit. If Australia lost then I'd have expected some abuse to fly towards those supporting La Celeste.
Here's the thing.
Peru didn't have the Chief Executive of their Football Association going to the national press of Peru telling the Peru fans that this was like a war and they needed to fire the fark up and make things as difficult as possible for the New Zealand team.
Because he didn't need to do that as their footballing culture is more passionate, aggressive, organised and widespread...
...but ALSO because that sort of stuff is waaaaaaaay below that sort of position.
It's not Martin's job to try and rark up New Zealand football supporters - it's his job to do the administration side of the bloody game.
I criticised him because;
a) it's not his bloody job to do that
b) he's asking for something that literally doesn't exist in NZ footballing culture (outside of Waiheke) AND HE KNOWS THAT
c) Peru were obviously going to see that and report on it
But mostly, like his executive decision to bar Peru from drums, trumpets and horns in the Westpac 'not to give them any advantage', it's clear Andy Martin doesn't rate New Zealand football supporters anyway.
If he reckons 34,500 Kiwis couldn't out noise 3,000 Peruvians, that he needed to quieten them down himself, then fudge it we might as well be All Blacks fans.
For all his talk of wanting rivalism and passion and tribalism, NZF have done bugger all to support the development of supporters groups. Apparently because they wanted guarantees that any proper group and its members would not criticise NZF.
Naïveté, all ends up. No football association in the world gets unconditional support from football supporters.
^ I think for those lasers to cause damage, they have to be pointed at your eyes for a quite a while and you would have to stand still which is unlikely for a football player in a match.
I see lasers pointed at players in the Serie A most weeks, and nothing seems to be done about it.
For argument's sake I wonder what would have happened if Marinovic had taken a dive and covered his eyes saying "they burn! they burn!" after having lasers pointed at him?
I would probably think that's pretty cool. not how safe it is
If it was in the afternoon maybe, but I thought it was just after dawn and some of the players were still trying to sleep after being kept up all night by fireworks? From the interview with Hudson/Durante it seemed more like they were pissed at the lack of sleep rather than worrying the jets were going to open fire or anything.
Here's the thing.
Peru didn't have the Chief Executive of their Football Association going to the national press of Peru telling the Peru fans that this was like a war and they needed to fire the fark up and make things as difficult as possible for the New Zealand team.
Because he didn't need to do that as their footballing culture is more passionate, aggressive, organised and widespread...
...but ALSO because that sort of stuff is waaaaaaaay below that sort of position.
It's not Martin's job to try and rark up New Zealand football supporters - it's his job to do the administration side of the bloody game.
I criticised him because;
a) it's not his bloody job to do that
b) he's asking for something that literally doesn't exist in NZ footballing culture (outside of Waiheke) AND HE KNOWS THAT
c) Peru were obviously going to see that and report on it
But mostly, like his executive decision to bar Peru from drums, trumpets and horns in the Westpac 'not to give them any advantage', it's clear Andy Martin doesn't rate New Zealand football supporters anyway.
If he reckons 34,500 Kiwis couldn't out noise 3,000 Peruvians, that he needed to quieten them down himself, then fudge it we might as well be All Blacks fans.
For all his talk of wanting rivalism and passion and tribalism, NZF have done bugger all to support the development of supporters groups. Apparently because they wanted guarantees that any proper group and its members would not criticise NZF.
Naïveté, all ends up. No football association in the world gets unconditional support from football supporters.
So you're criticizing him for trying to fire up football supporters in NZ, because it's not in his job description?
I don't have the Peruvian government contracts but I would suggest that whoever decided to screw with NZ's flights, that's probably not in their job description, and probably not in the Peruvian air forces contracts either.
The NZ Football CEO that has a strong vested interest in us succeeding (to gain funding) is a hell of a lot closer to influencing the football and its supporters than those two roles.
I'm not a fan of the guy, but that seems like a weird call to make.
Here's the thing.
Peru didn't have the Chief Executive of their Football Association going to the national press of Peru telling the Peru fans that this was like a war and they needed to fire the fark up and make things as difficult as possible for the New Zealand team.
Because he didn't need to do that as their footballing culture is more passionate, aggressive, organised and widespread...
...but ALSO because that sort of stuff is waaaaaaaay below that sort of position.
It's not Martin's job to try and rark up New Zealand football supporters - it's his job to do the administration side of the bloody game.
I criticised him because;
a) it's not his bloody job to do that
b) he's asking for something that literally doesn't exist in NZ footballing culture (outside of Waiheke) AND HE KNOWS THAT
c) Peru were obviously going to see that and report on it
But mostly, like his executive decision to bar Peru from drums, trumpets and horns in the Westpac 'not to give them any advantage', it's clear Andy Martin doesn't rate New Zealand football supporters anyway.
If he reckons 34,500 Kiwis couldn't out noise 3,000 Peruvians, that he needed to quieten them down himself, then fudge it we might as well be All Blacks fans.
For all his talk of wanting rivalism and passion and tribalism, NZF have done bugger all to support the development of supporters groups. Apparently because they wanted guarantees that any proper group and its members would not criticise NZF.
Naïveté, all ends up. No football association in the world gets unconditional support from football supporters.
I agree with most of this, and I don't think these thoughts, and my thoughts, are mutually exclusive positions to take.
I agree that Martin was out of line with his comments, and the reasonings you give are very sound, but I don't think this excuses the behaviour of peruvian fans, and their government, one single bit.
Here's the thing.
Peru didn't have the Chief Executive of their Football Association going to the national press of Peru telling the Peru fans that this was like a war and they needed to fire the fark up and make things as difficult as possible for the New Zealand team.
Because he didn't need to do that as their footballing culture is more passionate, aggressive, organised and widespread...
...but ALSO because that sort of stuff is waaaaaaaay below that sort of position.
It's not Martin's job to try and rark up New Zealand football supporters - it's his job to do the administration side of the bloody game.
I criticised him because;
a) it's not his bloody job to do that
b) he's asking for something that literally doesn't exist in NZ footballing culture (outside of Waiheke) AND HE KNOWS THAT
c) Peru were obviously going to see that and report on it
But mostly, like his executive decision to bar Peru from drums, trumpets and horns in the Westpac 'not to give them any advantage', it's clear Andy Martin doesn't rate New Zealand football supporters anyway.
If he reckons 34,500 Kiwis couldn't out noise 3,000 Peruvians, that he needed to quieten them down himself, then fudge it we might as well be All Blacks fans.
For all his talk of wanting rivalism and passion and tribalism, NZF have done bugger all to support the development of supporters groups. Apparently because they wanted guarantees that any proper group and its members would not criticise NZF.
Naïveté, all ends up. No football association in the world gets unconditional support from football supporters.
So you're criticizing him for trying to fire up football supporters in NZ, because it's not in his job description?
I don't have the Peruvian government contracts but I would suggest that whoever decided to screw with NZ's flights, that's probably not in their job description, and probably not in the Peruvian air forces contracts either.
The NZ Football CEO that has a strong vested interest in us succeeding (to gain funding) is a hell of a lot closer to influencing the football and its supporters than those two roles.
I'm not a fan of the guy, but that seems like a weird call to make.
These are some pretty bloody good points too.
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
That's the problem I have, is that we are just supposed to accept it. If they had diverted our plane to somewhere further away than Chile and delayed us by 8 hours would that still have been ok?
If objects had been thrown from the crowd at NZ players would that still just have been what we were supposed to expect.
There seems to be this attitude that it would be ok for Peru fans/officials/government to have free reign and do whatever the hell they wanted.
How about getting your own house in order and getting Football people back into important positions and realise that we MUST change our outlook on Football and look to catch up to the rest of the World in Football before we get left way behind!!!
I realise it may look like whinging but we've all accepted we lost to the better side here, so why not move on from that, and have a very valid discussion about why this kind of behaviour is tolerated, and why people are being shouted down for suggesting that it shouldn't be?
If FIFA seriously wanted to stop this sort of behaviour, they would instigate an investigation and if the charter plane diversion was orchestrated by anyone aligned with Peru in anyway, the fireworks were let off to disrupt the NZ team's sleep, the air force jets were for the same purpose and the lasers were being operated by Peru fans - the Peruvians should be disqualified and NZ given the win and qualification for the World Cup.
The reality is that this won't happen but instead of just accepting that is the way it is in South American countries, why don't we say 'this is not on' the whole basis of sport is to compete against each other on a level playing field this type of behaviour goes against that principle.
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
That's the problem I have, is that we are just supposed to accept it. If they had diverted our plane to somewhere further away than Chile and delayed us by 8 hours would that still have been ok?
If objects had been thrown from the crowd at NZ players would that still just have been what we were supposed to expect.
There seems to be this attitude that it would be ok for Peru fans/officials/government to have free reign and do whatever the hell they wanted.
I'm sorry, honestly, but I laughed out loud when I read this. Seriously? Haha.
How about getting your own house in order and getting Football people back into important positions and realise that we MUST change our outlook on Football and look to catch up to the rest of the World in Football before we get left way behind!!!
This sounds nice but reality is we're now poor, so can't fund any of it.
I for one am very sad that we have a golden generation of nz footballers on our hands, yet we're barely going to get to see them play together.
If FIFA seriously wanted to stop this sort of behaviour, they would instigate an investigation and if the charter plane diversion was orchestrated by anyone aligned with Peru in anyway, the fireworks were let off to disrupt the NZ team's sleep, the air force jets were for the same purpose and the lasers were being operated by Peru fans - the Peruvians should be disqualified and NZ given the win and qualification for the World Cup.
The reality is that this won't happen but instead of just accepting that is the way it is in South American countries, why don't we say 'this is not on' the whole basis of sport is to compete against each other on a level playing field this type of behaviour goes against that principle.
I think this is too far the other way.
Maybe fines and an apology would be the most I woudl want. Even then I just think its sharkty it happened.
Banning the team form the world cup would be way too far for me, when what happened on the pitch, mostly unimpeded, Peru won, and deserved the win. We fought hard, and made them work for it, but even in the nil all draw we over-performing IMO.
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
That's the problem I have, is that we are just supposed to accept it. If they had diverted our plane to somewhere further away than Chile and delayed us by 8 hours would that still have been ok?
If objects had been thrown from the crowd at NZ players would that still just have been what we were supposed to expect.
There seems to be this attitude that it would be ok for Peru fans/officials/government to have free reign and do whatever the hell they wanted.
Look, I get that it's unsporting and all but I don't know what we are trying to get at getting so wound up about it. Every competitive game in South America has some of this going on and sometimes much worse than this. If FIFA haven't done anything about it before they're not going to do anything about it now.
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
That's the problem I have, is that we are just supposed to accept it. If they had diverted our plane to somewhere further away than Chile and delayed us by 8 hours would that still have been ok?
If objects had been thrown from the crowd at NZ players would that still just have been what we were supposed to expect.
There seems to be this attitude that it would be ok for Peru fans/officials/government to have free reign and do whatever the hell they wanted.
Jeez. Is this an urban myth?
Where are all these stories about the Peruvian government interferring with our team's flight coming from?
I've seen nothing that claimed this had anything to do with the Peru government. On the contrary, reports just said it was an unscheduled stop for refueling and on arrival "the New Zealanders were whisked through customs amid a sizeable security detail and escorted immediately to their awaiting bus and on to the team hotel."
Did I miss something or are we getting a bit carried away here?
---
I'd just say the "F U Peru" yelled and finger saluted by a large aggro kiwi male, who leapt to his feet from an outside bar seat on Courtenay place, to an elderly Peruvian man wearing a supporters shirt, as he walked by, just ahead of me, that wasn't great in my opinion. And that was a fact.
Cuts both ways. There are a few dicks in both countries.
I've got no problem with the jets. "Go Peru" under the wings. At midday-ish, as I understand it. Great stuff.
We have this half naked guy with a spear sticking his tongue out instead. Bet that scared them.
Laser lights and fireworks; see "a few dicks", above ...
---
I had my wife, one of my daughters and a female family friend with us at the game. I can look after myself, but the less aggro the better.
imho Martin winding this up was about as dumb as could be. 35m latin blooded football fans desperate to go to their first WC in 35 years vs kiwi sports fans. yeh, winding that up was a good idea.
But hey, we weren't good enough. We gave it a decent shot. We can question the tactics. But the better side won. We are getting closer to these better sides and I hope we keep improving.
If FIFA seriously wanted to stop this sort of behaviour, they would instigate an investigation and if the charter plane diversion was orchestrated by anyone aligned with Peru in anyway, the fireworks were let off to disrupt the NZ team's sleep, the air force jets were for the same purpose and the lasers were being operated by Peru fans - the Peruvians should be disqualified and NZ given the win and qualification for the World Cup.
The reality is that this won't happen but instead of just accepting that is the way it is in South American countries, why don't we say 'this is not on' the whole basis of sport is to compete against each other on a level playing field this type of behaviour goes against that principle.
Ahhhh whatever. When in NZ things got done our way. Over in Peru it got done their way.
I enjoyed spending time with the fun and nice Peruvian fans over here for the first leg and I hope they felt like they were with friends, but if NZ fans/authorities had treated the Peruvian team like they treated ours I'd be embarrassed and sorry. In my opinion some questions should be asked about the 'official' level of some of the shenanigans - but as for fanatical fans - well it is South America....(and the same in quite a few other places I'm sure)
In balance and while it's not perfect, I'm largely happy with our 'fair go' and welcoming 'manaakitanga' culture, and walking the talk on that whenever possible. That is why I felt embarrassed about Martin's comments - but I'm so glad it had no effect on how we collectively behaved - just a few friendly 'who are ya' chants at the game and not a jetplane in sight....(not that we have any).
Jesus I feel like this is getting blown way out of proportion in both directions. Martin's comments, although accurate, were ill-conceived. Peru's actions were unsurprising and not exactly evil. No one got hurt nor was anyone ever actually in danger of getting hurt (pretty sure those lasers can't do damage in those situations). NZ sports fans do need rarking up, we are too quiet and meek and it negates our home ground advantage. Overall though, this shark is all pretty silly. Bitching about it kind of makes us look like sore losers, even if people aren't saying it's an excuse for our loss.
Honestly if someone sees our views as sore losers, you have to be looking for a sore loser.
I literally posted minutes after the game that its hard to be too disappointing when you see how much it meant to the Peru fans and that I'm still chuffed with the NZ effort of 2-0 over 2 games.
I can still think this other garbage is garbage. And I wouldn't have been as disappointed if the whole "Us Peruvians don't do that and the suggestion we do that is xenophobic" narrative hadn't been going before the game. They made it hell for us, like they said it wouldn't be.
The loss is the loss, this is different.
I'd just add that I've watched Mexico and Peru play the All Whites at home. I didn't ever expect to see that in my lifetime. And Bahrain, if you want to get excited about that (and we did).
A longer while ago I saw us play Aus. And that was about as much as we could expect. If they were bothered to play us.
I also saw two Premier League sides play the Nix a few years ago.
And if I'd made it a priority I could have flown over the Tasman and watched Liverpool.
Seems to me we are getting more and better quality sides playing us here. And we have a televised A League and local league.
Yes, we'd love more, but, actually, it's a lot better than it was.
We don't know how lucky we are, mate.
