All Whites vs Russia, Confederations Cup | Sun 18 June | 3am | St Petersburg | SS3

Themi or Tuiloma as DM. Or even Musa, or in this squad even Rufer. Lewis, Ridenton, Keat as CM options. Rojas and  Thomas might be better players but only in their actual positions. As for the wingbacks, play 4 at the back instead, then you can play Boxall at RB and you wouldn't need Colvey there. And then no wingbacks means you can play actual wingers and Rojas and Thomas can play their natural positions instead of being shoehorned into roles they're not suited to. 

Ricki's 3-4-3 worked because our best players all got to play their natural roles. When he started doing things like putting Killen in DM is when it all went pear-shaped. Apparently playing guys in random positions is a key requirement for the AWs coach though.

James and H-W are injured, but yeah...

A couple of those names are already in the squad, some of the others tried and failed previously and others playing at a lowish level. I think we need to be a bit realistic here, while (perhaps) Hudson should have done some tweaks, he is vastly more qualified as a coach than everyone on here. Look at who we have available, Thomas, Wood and Reid are our only real performers in the mix. Everyone one else is either playing in a weak league or cant even make the top team. The likes of Rojas and Kosta failed in their overseas stints and others played like stinkers all year in the A League. I just dont think we have the talent to do any better and Hudson (or anybody else for that matter) cant polish a turd.

I think Ramon can do a better job at polishing a turd. Refer Auckland City at club world cup (no offense to Auckland City).

I'm certain there are a lot of people that could do a better job but my point stands, limited talent available.

what's the excuse for constantly ignoring the simple pass in order to thrash it forward time and again without ever achieving anything from it?

it's rubbish football of the lowest order. we are utterly awful

i do not blame the players. you could put anyone in the mix and they would be awful in this setup. the current players are only being criticized because they're the ones out there

Response to a tweet sent out about how AH is the youngest ever coach at a confedcup.

Hudson is a fraud.....

It is up to a coach to chose the style of football they want to play and they live and die by that decision. As an observor you can judge the coach on how well they get their team to play that style.

Well it appears that Hudson has chosen long ball. We played it in the Islands and it was on display in all its ugly glory against Russia. Why he is a failure is because we are hopeless at playing that style....we barely threaten to score. The side looks listless, underdone and ill prepared. we are playing some of the worst football i have seen from the AW's in quite a while. What is more worrying is that we are not progressing. We played shiite in the Island and we are playing shiite now.

You can also judge a coach by the little things....like how well the defense is set up, the player alignment on the field, the interactions, where the players pass and move, the pressing,  the tactics etc. Again a complete failure in just about every area.

I have been reading up on lots of the European football sites about the match. Most it is not pretty reading. The French press were mostly neutral describing NZ as "limited" The Brits were less kind "worse than a pub team" etc. Some even question the decision to give Oceania a free entry to the WC in 2026 if we represent the low standard of Oceania.

I watched the match on French TV and the commentators made an observation about how much NZ football had regressed since our great effort in the WC is Africa. Another commentator made a comment about how difficult it must be for a team like NZ to progress if you are constantly playing against lowly Island teams.....he said to progress a side you need to play regularly against quality opposition. All true of course but there is the rub for NZ football....we are stuck in this Confed with little or no money

Léquipe mag gave the following player ratings

Marinkovic 7, Colvey 3, Smith 4, Durante 4, Boxall 2, Wynne 4, Barbarouses 4, McClinchey 4, Thomas 5, Rojas 5, Wood 3

rating out of 10 not 100

So why haven't any of the players gone public with ^ grievances? Or said same in private and fuelled the rumour mill that he's a fraud? Esp dropped players like Moss.

Just asking.

Rojas played 25 games in the A League this season, got 12 goals and 11 assists. Played like a stinker all year?

It's a  BS argument that Hudson knows what he's doing because he's a qualified and experienced coach (because no football coach at pro level has ever fudged up badly right?). Any other equally qualified coach would have kept picking Dyer? Or to just focus on this squad, would have picked Rufer over Ridenton? Or left Gleeson out? Or chosen to play a 5-3-2 with wingers as CMs? This team is just not set up to play to our strengths or minimise our weaknesses. It's possible to get international teams to be more than the sum of their parts - look at Iceland and Northern Ireland. Sure they've got better players than us to draw on but still a lot worse on paper than teams they have done better than.

Yes we are weak and we don't have players at a good level in key positions but we could do better than this. We could at least be compact and hard to break down. We would still probably lose every game but we could have some pride.

There's an element of self fulfilling prophecy to this whole"we are shark" argument. It basically means we can never question a shark performance because the excuse will always be "what do you expect, we are shark?" Rather than asking if it is possible to be less shark.

For what it's worth if I was in charge of this team I'd play a 4-3-3

Gleeson

Roux - Boxall - Smith - Doyle

Themi - Tuiloma - WeeMac

Rojas - Wood - Thomas

Sit deep, try to counter attack at pace  down the wings. WeeMac can be more adventurous on the left, Roux on the right. Our creative wingers are then in a position to actually trouble defenders, running at them from deep. Wood is used as a poacher instead of a target man. Our defenders should intuitively grasp their positions better because everyone is used to playing 4 at the back. Themi and Tuiloma in midfield would give us more steel, and in possession they would just aim to get it wide early and along the ground.

Now that's never going to happen but obviously Hudson's 5-3-2 hoofball isn't the only way we could possibly play.

They are playing a style they think they can win with, they just aren't very good at it.

It saddens me that we have AWs fans willing to accept this dross.

There is so much that just doesn't  make sense. Colvey looks scared of the ball playing against OFC teams - surely Roux is a better option. Durante is so slow in possession - he needs to get the ball moving even if it is a square pass which has got to be better than stopping, taking a few paces forward and humping it long. How on earth does anyone think We eMac,  Marco & Thomas is a midfield? 

Hudson has definitely been found out to be a complete fraud. We were blinded by the odd good performance in the last couple of years but if you compare what he says v what happens on the pitch it is now actually hilarious. As an example when Tuiloma came on v NI we looked much better yet he decides to stick with playing 3 of our best players out of position.Mexico now need 3 points against us so this will be embarrassing. 

For all Rickis faults at least he created a formation to suit our players and their strengths. 

PPT malfunction 

Its not as you describe. We simply aren't good enough at this level. We don't have enough players playing at a high level to compete, we don't have a good enough coach to get the best out of the players we have got, and we arte never likely to get any better quite honestly. The sooner we accept where we are in the world the better, then we can celebrate the occasional break out and stop slashing our wrists over something we have no control over.

I disagree. We can play better. We can get a better coach. Yes, we don't have a lot of quality players or depth, but we can be better than this. We played better under Emblen in his brief spell. We've had our moments under Hudson even but then we've reverted to disorganized hoofball. As others have said Ramon has shown he can set a team up to look decent and maybe snatch a result against far superior opposition.

We don't have to accept this shark.

I don't mind us losing to better sides, I just don't like the shambles we are in doing so at the moment. And it's not just about the Confeds - we have had several games where we've really struggled to break down OFC sides. We should be better than that too - our players, resources, coaching and training facilities piss all over the OFC sides, so if we are excused for losing against teams with the same advantages over us, what's our excuse when we have all those advantages and still look garbage?

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't clayton lewis the only non-professional in this squad.  Whereas in 2010 there were at least a couple? Barron, Vicelich, one of the goal keepers (his name I've forgotten).  So you could argue that our players now are playing better levels than they were in 2010.

I think this is a fair assessment of where our playing stocks are at but it is the consistency of performances against good teams and the Island teams that is the issue for me.  We just don't look like we have a coherent system that promotes any sort of attacking play at all

Yeah but so many of this team are playing in weak leagues, and I include A League in that.

The 2010 team had vastly experienced, composed guys like Nelsen, Elliott and  Vicelich who had all played for years at a high level. 

This a young team that may improve but at the moment the midfield esp is so piss weak. Do agree that Ramon should be made the next coach, at least he will have the NZ football public onside initially 

Out of interest AWs won their 2010 WC OFC qualifiers by winning margins of 1-3 goals pretty much the same as this team has been achieving. So I disagree with the argument we should be thrashing the Island teams. Let's face it they have improved, and we are not Brazil

I think the coach is a failure because players we now that they can play football suddenly can't string some simple passes together. We can't even play the style the coach promised against weaker teams. Stupid psycho games like Kosta left out a few month is now playing every game. Maybe the team is not following is orders how to play, also his fault, he is the boss. Even his polished wikipedia article suggest nothing that he can win anything, he never played or won anything important, even on a lower level. I think even winning a season in the ASB/Sterling Premiership gives you more experience coaching a team and how to actually win something. Excuses, to hot, pressure opening game, blablabla. They can't be any more motivation to perform, especially Russia had all the pressure to perform.

At the time of the 2010 World Cup, I think Bannatyne, Elliott, Vicelich, Barron, Clapham, Mulligan and maybe Christie all did not have professional contracts. That isn't a perfect measure of their ability though; Elliott and Vicelich were arguably our best players after Nelsen. 

I think the fact that we had Nelsen playing in the EPL, Reid coming off an outstanding season in the Danish Superliga, and Smith, Killen, Fallon, and Wood all having played in the Championship in 2009-10 made that team much stronger than the current outfit. Although we have more players with professional deals, only Thomas, Wood, and Smith (a little bit) have been playing in particularly strong leagues

But isn't that New Zealand in general though.

James Bannatyne ?

I just can't agree, I don't accept that we have to play the way we are.  I don't expect us to get out of our group at a Confed Cup.  I can expect a coach to set us up in a way that makes sense.  Why are we playing a long ball game with tiny wingers and advanced midfielders.  Why are we playing without a screening midfielder, why a large number of things.  We can expect better, while still being realistic about where we sit, and not just say "oh well, we are shark anyway, why does it matter"

No one has said "why does it matter'. I'm certainly not happy with how we are playing because I did expect better from everyone [including Hudson] but I'm also cognisant of the fact that no one posting here is an international coach and the opinions on specific tactics have no greater influence on mine [or probably NZF's] views. Hudson has his tactics put to the test every time his team plays, easy for the armchair experts to make comment but they will never be in a position to have their theories tested will they?

You do realise this is the point of football forums right?

To me, Hudson is playing the same formation and tactics as Ricki Herbert played in the 2010 world Cup. But instead of pumping the ball long to Killen & Fallon. They are pumping the ball long to Rojas & Barbar. Also without Reid these tactics are hard to pull off. I hope for the same tactics used in the friendly againts Mexico to be used again for the next game.

I don't think we are.  Herbert had 2 deeper lying midfielders (Elliot & Vicelich) in front of the back three who were there to add to the defensive screen, receive the ball and distribute it (often long) to one of three targets, and also allowing the wide defenders to get forward on the occasions we held the ball for any length of time. 

Hudson has the lightweight McGlinchey who I don't think has ever been considered a strong defensive midfielder and two small wingers playing in the middle of the park.

We also played with three physical centre-forwards in 2010. Now we have one (Wood) who isn't much of a targetman. 

It had become plain as day that the AW's are coached by somebody who doesn't have a clue during the build-up games before this tournament so for the first time in my life I'd not been looking forward to a NZ football side taking part in major tournament.

And the Russia game was just depressing.

Hudson's team selection and formation are just hopeless and what you'd expect from a guy who failed coaching in non-league football in England and has never coached at club level above that.

Zero qualifications to coach a national team in terms of earning the job by the hard graft of proving himself by coaching at club or national age group level as with most of our previous successful coaches like Adshead and Herbert.

It was evident from the Northern Ireland game and blindingly obvious after the Belarus shambles that the back three formation with wing-backs and some of the players chosen weren't up to it. 

And yet Hudson persists with a dud like Colvey and fields the physically lightweight McGlinchey alone in central midfield when he could have included capable players like Tuiloma in midfield and Tzimopoulos in central defence.

This would have been a more effective line-up: 4 4 2:

                                                                    Marinovic

                                    Boxall                 Smith   Tzimopoulos        Wynne

                                 Rojas              McGlinchey          Tuiloma        Thomas

                                                           Wood           Barbarouses

                                             

                                           (Smeltz on as a sub late in games)

I hope Hudson gets the shove after the tournament and NZ football appoint the new technical director Andreas Heraf as interim coach with Ramon Tribulietx as his assistant.

Heraf is a much more competent coach - in charge of Austria's age group sides at every level since 2008, including in world cups and Euro tournaments, preceded by four years managing sides in the Austrian Bundesliga.

I doubt Hudson's going anywhere till the WC qualifying is done and dusted. When we fail to make it to Russia next year - and does anyone really believe we will be there? - he will move on/be moved on. Don't know who else is out there as a possible head coach, but the scary thing is that the same people who brought us Hudson will probably be charged with choosing his replacement. 

I thought after the US tour we would be a real contender for the confeds :(

Amen Pete.

Man's a fraud. Has been since day one. His addiction to style over substance everywhere except on the pitch has set the game back here.

Reid played those games (admittedly not full strength Mexico or US sides) and was a colossus. Take him out and we are a much much weaker side. 

Similar to 2009 Confeds when without Nelsen we got thumped 5-0 by Spain, beaten easily 2-0 by hosts South Africa (an average side worst than Russia I'd say) and managed a draw with lowly Iraq.

I would switch Thomas and Kosta. Thomas has been a key part of almost all our decent efforts on goal of late. Scored with head and feet, volleys and other strikes.

Why don't you apply as a coach since you know everything. 

Surely he is allowed an opinion.

Can people saying "you're not a coach, therefore you're wrong" shut the fudge up or come up with a coherent argument? I'm not a professional coach, but anyone who even has the a slight to moderate knowledge of football can tell this coach is (and was, as many of us have said in previous matches and results) garbage. 

I can't fly a helicopter but if I see one crashed in a tree I know that pilot is useless.

...or the Helicopter failed.

For those that didn't get it, in that anecdote NZ football is the Helicopter.