All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

AW v Iraq - last chance saloon

398 replies · 8,554 views
almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
2ndBest wrote:
Torne wrote:
Maybe because you can only have 11 players on the pitch at one time?
 

Forgive me. I'm young and na�ve.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing. Moss just can't organize the defence. As usual under him it falls to pieces. I will be proved right on Sunday when we see the same defence not get torn to pieces, regardless of who starts at the back.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
whitby fever wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a worse passer of the ball at international level than Killen.� Same story every time - controls the ball well, holds it up under pressure from the defender well, passes it straight into touch/5 yards behind the player/straight to an opposition player.
�

I cannot get my head around how he can do the hard part so well, and the easy part so simply.


Sadly he has some serious competition for the worse passer in international football, Mulligan and Brown are pushing him all the way.


Lockhead must be up there.
We can win this game, but have to stop the oppo scoring.
The defence is the major problem.Left and right defenders
were out of their depth and so was Christie. If you don't concede you can't lose.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
                                 _________
                                | Paston     |
___________________________________________________
              |                                                        |
              |                                                        |
              |____________________________|
              Boyens    Sigmund    Old     Lochead

                        
                      Vicelich             Elliot
Bertos                                                      James

                                          Smeltz
                     Killen                        
_________________________________________________

Get Vicelich and Elliot for some quality passing in the midfield. Keep Mulligan and Christie out of the starting line-up. Boyen would do better at RB as long he is not in front of the goal and I think he would backtrack better and close down the attacker on the RB compare to Mulligan or Christie. The question is how well is Boyens combo with Bertos in front of him, which is why I have Vicelich there right centre midfield.

Significantly it is defensive at the start but it would turn the tide when either Vicelich or Elliot move up the pitch, this would be a key moment to connect with the front players. They work together and pass well. I don't mind Brown expect he has not been in the right place positional wise in the last two games and it has been a concern.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
But vicelich has been so poor in this tournament, he's no longer up to playing in midfielf - too slow.  And why still two up front?

Normo's coming home

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
But vicelich has been so poor in this tournament, he's no longer up to playing in midfielf - too slow.  And why still two up front?
 
where side Wood fit into your side?
Vicelich has been genius compared to Boyens.
 
What i cant work out in the last game is how flat our back four was - as far back as our own six yard box during the first goal when the ball was merely cut back to unmarked striker.
anyway - time to move on
 

Founder

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Im tired of the continuous obvious mistakes made by Ricki

Tactically half the yellow fever are better than him......RH never got the players fired up for both games and didnt play an attractive brand of football.


Mulligan is not a right back = Fact
reason: always caught outta the position, Gets beaten too easily  and is just totally out of his depth here at the nix and its definitely reflecting on his game for the all whites....

Christie at right midfield don't get me started on it, another who cant make the nix first 11 while you got Duncan Oughton on the bench who could have played a far better game against Sa and Spain at right mid......

Vicellich= slowest cb ive ever seen

.for me against Iraq i will i adopt a 4-2-2-1-1

Jeremy Christie ( better than mully)        Ben Sigmund           Steven Old                  Tony Lochhead

                                       Simon Elliot     Duncan Oughton


                                  Chris James                         Leo Bertos


                                                                Chris Kilen

                                                                  Shane Smeltz
                       
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
But vicelich has been so poor in this tournament, he's no longer up to playing in midfielf - too slow.� And why still two up front?

Vicelich is the most experienced player we have. He should be at the back but should be the play maker from the defence.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
What i cant work out in the last game is how flat our back four was - as far back as our own six yard box during the first goal when the ball was merely cut back to unmarked�striker.
�


Only three of them at the six yard box - Mulligan was on his arse after seeing the Saffa winger breeze past him.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing. Moss just can't organize the defence. As usual under him it falls to pieces. I will be proved right on Sunday when we see the same defence not get torn to pieces, regardless of who starts at the back.


I've really missed this debate...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing. Moss just can't organize the defence. As usual under him it falls to pieces. I will be proved right on Sunday when we see the same defence not get torn to pieces, regardless of who starts at the back.


I've really missed this debate...
 

Founder

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I don't understand how people can comment from watching a match on television that the keeper isn't organising the defence.  The only way ou can judge that in my books is if yu are standing on the post at the game.
 
Fine to keep vicelich in the side, but not in midfield.  He's far too slow.
 
Feipe de legen - lamenting the fact that we didn't play an attractive brand of football completely misses the point.  We didn't play a brand of football that gave us the best chance of getting a result, that's the issue.  Criticising Ricki for not getting the players fired up, well unless you were in teh dressing room then you have no clue about that.  I hate these stupid cliche criticisms
 
We have to go one up front and pack the midfield, I don't think we can have Bertos, Killen and Semltz all in the side.  One of Smeltz or Bertos will have to give way and the other will have to start wide.
 
Fundamentally we don't have a player in our side who can deliver a penetrative pass.  Against international defences we can't construct anything.

Normo's coming home

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Im tired of the continuous obvious mistakes made by Ricki

Tactically half the yellow fever are better than him......RH never got the players fired up for both games and didnt play an attractive brand of football.

 
Could not agree more. The whole football world is following the Conf cup(mainly because most other football is over). NZ is getting slagged heaps in the European press over their niavity.
 
As others have pointed out there are heaps of examples of teams(i.e bottom half of the EPL) who did not have the technical skill/player depth but still were competitive because they played to their strenghts.
if you are disciplined, have the right game plan, work your bollocks off and play as a tight unit you can get results at this level.
 
Iraq held Spain to 0-1. the coach said" I'm proud of my team, we played to a plan and the players stuck to this plan. We do not have the skill of Spain but we came close " Basically they parked the bus, fielded 6 defenders and had one striker in the Spanish half.
 
Now nobody in the Euro press has slagged their negative tactics...people understand you do what you have to do. Playing like that when its still 0-1 with 10mins to go means you still have a chance of nicking a point....header from a set piece....goal mouth scramble etc.
 
I am afraid the people running the AW's don't have the tactical nowse to succeed at this sort of level. I am pleased to read there maybe some chance that ricki will get some technical advice regarding the middle east WC play offs..........i sure hope so!!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
                       Paston

Sigmund    Vicelich    Old       Lochy

     James        Elliott      Bertos

     Smeltz       Killen       Wood


all out aggression will be what gets us a result, formation can be changed if we just don't get that edge but that is what we will need!!!!!!! DO IT!!!!

Smith on early 2nd half for legs
Brockie also
Brown will be pissed already not starting. he'll fire straight off the bench

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smittyz11 wrote:
� � � � � � � � � � �� PastonSigmund    Vicelich    Old       Lochy     James        Elliott      Bertos     Smeltz       Killen       Woodall out aggression will be what gets us a result, formation can be changed if we just don't get that edge but that is what we will need!!!!!!! DO IT!!!!Smith on early 2nd half for legsBrockie alsoBrown will be pissed already not starting. he'll fire straight off the bench


Not a bad side. Pity we have not a left sided player instesd of Lochy that can defend, as he is useless.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There is something that we may be forgetting, perhaps the tactics were correct but the players weren't good enough to put them into action?

Normo's coming home

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
whitby fever wrote:
Assuming Siggy fit then think we should be looking at a formation that allows us to get the best 11 players on the field not 4-4-2 when we know we have no right back and the right midfield slot is weak as well.
 
If we start shoe-horning our best players into positions because we are committed to getting our best players on the field, we are going to end up with a team something like this:
 
Paston
 
Moss   Sigmund   Vicelich  Lochead
 
Wood    Elliott   James   Bertos
 
Killen   Smeltz
 
 
Good luck with that team

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm sure Moss could do no worse at RB than Mulligan. Worth a punt I'd say.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
whitby fever wrote:
Assuming Siggy fit then think we should be looking at a formation that allows us to get the best 11 players on the field not 4-4-2 when we know we have no right back and the right midfield slot is weak as well.
 
If we start shoe-horning our best players into positions because we are committed to getting our best players on the field, we are going to end up with a team something like this:
 
Paston
 
Moss   Sigmund   Vicelich  Lochead
 
Wood    Elliott   James   Bertos
 
Killen   Smeltz
 
 
Good luck with that team
 
well we'd def have the right flank well covered

Founder

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would like to see Paston given a go between the sticks. Although I think Moss has done well, if he's suspended for the WCQ play-off then it'd be good to give Paston the experience of playing against a better side.
 
I'd also like to see Boyens replaced. I think he's been awful in this tournament.
 
Ricki should stick to 4-4-2 for this game as the AW's have nothing to lose. I do think he should've gone 4-5-1 against Spain though. It was obvious Spain were always going to have a lot of possession, and they do a good job of pressing you when they don't have the ball. Five across the middle would've given that key extra man in the middle and allow the two wide men and one of the central midfielders to support the striker when attacking.
 
Anyway, my team would be:
 
                          Paston
 
Sigmund     Vicelich     Old     Lochhead
 
James        Brown       Elliot   Bertos
 
                  Wood       Smeltz
PaulSG2009-06-19 23:03:30

Freelance Football Writer

t: @PauloSimao55

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Chris James needs to start he's all class. can someone please tell me why Moss wont be playing in the WCQ? would like to see Wood get some game time.

                      Moss

Oughtan Vicelich Sigmund Lochhead

               Elliot  Brown

James                          Bertos
            Wood  Smeltz

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
Chris James needs to start he's all class. can someone please tell me why Moss wont be playing in the WCQ?
 
Suspended. see front page
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
These are the Asian rankings

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html#confederation=25998&rank=182


4 .... Iran
5.... Saudi Arabia
6.....Bahrain

This will be a real test for the WCQ ... question do you show to much in this match or hold something back for the WCQ...



Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You would never hold back.
This is the game that will get people on seats in NZ (for the home game) if they win. A loss will only dampen the non soccer publics perception of going to watch it live.convict2009-06-20 02:02:47
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
But vicelich has been so poor in this tournament, he's no longer up to playing in midfielf - too slow.� And why still two up front?


Mixed result as a CB but Vicelich does pass the ball better than Brown. He can still move well enough but it is the passing and the combination with Elliot that will be the positive. What we need are players who don't lose ball possession. I just think he will do better than Brown as well as having the professional club experience to position himself in order to pass the ball. He's just a better passing link.

I rather have a player who passes well and position well before having a runner with poor passing skills any day and frankly Brown is not in-form and running out of gas. Let the ball do the traveling rather the player.

This is also why I have Smeltz having a deep forward role in a split front system. To increase the options for Vicelich while he is in a predominant defensive midfield role. The other reason is that the Iraq game is not going to be a box to box game so he would not need to run as much as you think. It will be either in our half or in their half because of the Broca coaching tactics. Either way Vicelich is still the better choice over Brown for accurate quick passing.

I have split forwards up front with Smeltz as a deep forward/striker and Killen doing the physical donkey work pushing onto the last man. It is close to a 4-5-1 but more attacking options. I put a deep forward because:

1.) Smeltz can do this role well with a bit of guidance i.e. he is either deep on defensive in our half, ready for a counterattack move or if we are in their half for a period he is up front to push on the Iraq's defence line.
2.) Also I have Vicelich and Elliot as twin defensive central midfielders that can pass the ball to him accurately and safety in the centre of the midfield, so thing which has been lacking.
3.) The split forward can increase space between defensive midfield and forward and allow Smeltz time to drop and pass to any of the four midfielder on the counterattack and bring the opposition defence with him to break up their line more, hereby exposures gaps for passing and running through.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh yeah, we soooo need to wear the black strip for this game, we just do much better, you'll see . . . . .
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh yeah, we soooo need to wear the black strip for this game, we just do much better, you'll see . . . . .

We just need a win ffs,
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Feverish wrote:
What i cant work out in the last game is how flat our back four was - as far back as our own six yard box during the first goal when the ball was merely cut back to unmarked striker.
 


Only three of them at the six yard box - Mulligan was on his arse after seeing the Saffa winger breeze past him.
 
He was actually on his face from my memory of it. He tripped over himself, collapsed nose-first in a heap, then took so long to get up that I thought he had knocked himself out. It was bloody hilarious!
jamesnz2009-06-20 05:37:54
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing. 



Because Paston is absolute rubbish, Moss is much better.


I need to check my eyes, a lot of people are putting Steven Old in their line up, surely you remember who he is??
caseym2009-06-20 08:51:50
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:


About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing.�
Because Paston is absolute rubbish, Moss is much better.
Yes that's why he conceded less goals last year for the Phoenix, conceded less per game...

Remember keeping isn't all about pulling out amazing save when you get yourself into those crap positions by having a defence that isn't lead well.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
jamesnz wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
Feverish wrote:

What i cant work out in the last game is how flat our back four was - as far back as our own six yard box during the first goal when the ball was merely cut back to unmarked�striker.
�
Only three of them at the six yard box - Mulligan was on his arse after seeing the Saffa winger breeze past him.

�

He was actually on his face from my memory of it. He tripped over himself, collapsed nose-first in a heap, then took so long to get up that I thought he had knocked himself out. It was bloody hilarious!


Yep, that sounds about right.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
All I ask for out of this game is no excuses...
 
All I've heard is that the guys are tired, it's been a big tour.. etc etc.. please just front up, take responsability, play attacking football moving the ball at pace, if we get beaten we get beaten.. but no excuses please..
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:


About time they start Paston. Why they didn't play him in the other games is some what confusing.�
Because Paston is absolute rubbish, Moss is much better.
Yes that's why he conceded less goals last year for the Phoenix, conceded less per game...

Remember keeping isn't all about pulling out amazing save when you get yourself into those crap positions by having a defence that isn't lead well.


How do you explain that Melbourne have signed Moss and looks like he was signed as their starting keeper.

From what I've seen of Crowther, I do not think Paston will be getting much game time this season either. He is what he is a good back up keeper.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not start this argument again. I say banstick to anyone who fuels it.
You know we belong together...

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bring Back Black!

We play much better in it; also the opposition are more nervous facing it ...

Would be happy with Christie at right back; Sigmund should return, and James should be starting too.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agree James shows alot af energy and enthusiasm, something we deffiently need at this point. We really need to at least score so we should use 2 strikers. Mulligan for the midfield?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Also will the game be stremed online. iraqgoals?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smeltzfan1 wrote:
Mulligan for the midfield?


How about Mulligan for in the stands, not even on the bench?

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bit harsh maybe i mean he didn't play that badly and last time he played midfield he scored twice.
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