Club vs country

Club vs country

Should the Phoenix release players for all of NZ's World Cup warm-up matches, even if they fall outside of a FIFA window?

I say yes, yes, yes!

Let's look at the big picture here. NZ qualifying for the World Cup would be huge and have massive knock on benefits for the Phoenix in terms of interest in the game.

There is a real chance to qualify but the team clearly needs more game time.

Yes why not, it's not as though it would make much difference to Nix because they probably be benched anyway. In this way everyone gets a run on the park.

The games are being held in a fifa window but that window is only for offical matches and not friendlies so clubs are'nt bound to release their players.

The Phoenix pay the bills, Why should they have to be released for micky mouse games? Then again its for the World Cup and i cant see any players being let out because of it.
Now the NZFC clubs are another story and the Bench-warmers in the USA shouldnt be a issue as there not 1st team standed so they wont be missed (sep for Simon E)

FYI

Well If we actually had qualified for WC finals after these playoffs, then clubs has to release any players for friendlies in an international window. They will be bound release them then.

Still I can see only Elliot, Nelson, Smeltz (GCU) disputing their first team lineup, the others are fighting for their spots, so tough calls. Normally clubs understand about it but they foot any injury cover and it messes their own season matches especially if it is an important match to take the top or get of the bottom.AllWhitebelievr2009-06-26 21:19:34

Same difference... should the 'Nix release players when they don't actually have to or not?

Yeah, but the point is the Phoenix is my club and a New Zealand club and they need to f**king represent on this one.

Nobody's gonna give a f**k if I burn a San Jose Earthquakes season ticket on the concourse of Westpac Stadium in protest.

I think we have the biggest challenge for the season right here in this topic.

It is all very well for The All Whites to want these warm up games, and to schedule them as extras now,  but our season is set, and these games come in the middle of it

If we lost a play off spot for the A League finals through one or two points that were lost because our good players were away at these games, how would it be.

Whose interests will Ricki act in, he has 2 employers both wanting results. Doubt if Terry wants less than the best team ptu out on the park each week



 

as well as player availability, it's going to be interesting to see how Ricki juggles the time and focus between club and country

Has anyone looked at the calendar ?

Surely if we're playing Asian Nations then they must have league breaks for the matches as well.  They are probably Asian Cup qualifier weeks and the A-League has those off anyway.

Good point HN, but it's the principle that I'm really interested in here.

I'm simply trying to stir up the emotive subject of club vs country again and the rationale use of facts can only hinder that.

The Phoenix must do everything they can to help NZ qualify for the World Cup and if that means refusing to release David Mulligan for international duty then so be it.

Fixed.

The rational facts:

Warm up matches: (not on the NZ soccer site yet, but from a YF post)

New Zealand will meet Iraq  on September 4 and will face Jordan on September 9.

Both these games will be played in Amman.

Iraq game clashes with  Nix home game on the 4th, but not so bad for the Melbourne game if we get our team members  back to there on time


Fri 4, 7:30 PM Adelaide United FC Westpac Stadium, Wellington A-League


Sun 13, 3:00 PM Melbourne Victory FC Etihad Stadium, Melbourne A-League




The Asian team hosts New Zealand on October 10 - no probs , as it is a FIFA window

before travelling to New Zealand for the return leg on November 14 - same, all clear for us

Wellington Phoenix have a far more tenuous future ahead of them than the national team do if you believe all the debate coming out of the AFC about a "foreign" team playing in the A-League and the effect that is having on the development of so-called cross-border regional competitions.

Perhaps thats for a more broader debate.

With the Wellington Phoenix and New Zealand Football more or less singing off the same song sheet, surely a compromise will be found - this is hardly the same adversorial combat between the coach of Manchester United and the coach of England.

In this case we're fortunate the coach of Wellington Phoenix and New Zealand is the same man. Dealing more or less with the same (benched) players. A third friendly outside the FIFA window would be ok if it were comprised of Wellington Phoenix players not getting regular pitch time.

Where it gets difficult is that Ricki Herbert can't be in two places at once. Would Brian Turner take charge of one team or the other.

The biggest clash here would be between the WP hierarchy and NZF? The point made about the Phoenix missing out on the A-League playoffs by a few points is a well-made argument.

A quick comment on Terry Maddaford's belief NZF should cut ties with Oceania and bolt for the AFC - dream on. NZF needs friends at Oceania and the AFC to make that happen for a start (which they don't, one imagines)and then bring something commercially tangible to the AFC fabric in terms of television, marketing and bums on seats (miss, miss and miss).

NZF's best chance of prising itself out of OFC is if something cataclysmic occurs at FIFA level to change the entire football political landscape worldwide - then see where the chips fall, perhaps marked by the departure of Blatter through retirement or ballot box.

I have been inspired to do a bit more research here and as far as I can work out this is what happens.

NZ vs Iraq 4 September (according to the AFC site)

This game doesn't actually fall in the FIFA window which is from 5-9 September (according to FIFA). That seems a bit weird for starters and means the Phoenix don't have to release players at all. Even if the date given is wrong, and the game does get played in the window, because it is a friendly match scheduled in a window for official matches the Phoenix only have to release players for 48 hours in total (according to FIFA again). Hardly time to get there and back.

NZ vs Jordan 9 September

This game does fall in the 5-9 September FIFA window but again, because it is a friendly match in a window for official matches the Phoenix only have to release players for 48 hours.

These two games clash with the Phoenix home game against Adelaide on 4 September. So the bottom line is they can really only go ahead if the Phoenix agree to release the players a few days before the Adelaide match and get them back a few days after. NZF can only force the release of players for 48 hours for the 9 September game which would be useless on its own.

The two World Cup qualifying matches (10 October and 14 November) are in FIFA official match windows and there are no A-League matches for the Phoenix those weeks so no problems there.

So the Phoenix can play a crucial role in helping NZ qualify for the World Cup and massively boosting the profile of the game here (thereby helping themselves in the long run) by agreeing to release their NZ players for the friendlies on 4 and 9 September and have them miss one game on 4 September.

I think they should announce this decision immediately and get themselves some good press while they are still trying to drive season ticket sales. By doing so they will also tie themselves and the NZ World Cup campaign together boosting the profile of both and presenting a united face to the public. Synergy baby.

C'mon 'Nix - do the right thing.

PS. if there's also a game played against China on July 25 there is a FIFA match window from 3-26 July but it's only for the CONCACAF Gold Cup. The Phoenix wouldn't have to release players for this although the A-League season doesn't start until August 9 anyway.

terminator_x2009-06-27 13:54:28

What will happen is that the agreement will be that the Nix will release the players for the 4th Sept match and also Terry would just get a short term loan for players from other clubs for the two games to make up the numbers.

The game against China on the 25th July is no problem because the season does not start until August.

As for where Ricki will be, it would be negotiable but likely it is agreed that Ricki has to fulfill national duties above club duties as a condition in the WP contract. WP knew what the terms and conditions are because Ricki was the national coach first before WP hired him. The chances are that Brian Turner will go with him as well and leave Jonathan Gould to see things over for those two Nix's game.

I can't see any problems or conflict arising here.

AWB >> I can't see any problems or conflict arising here <<