Cock
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Mainland FC wrote:

Doloras wrote:

How? Do we have to do what Australia did, dissolve the whole operation and start from scratch?

Seems to have worked for them. But then, they do not have a mentality that an English accent is a substitute for proven competence when it comes to running a football organisation. 

Incidentally, a few of their(FFA that is) CEOs  came from a non-football background, but from a decent sport management background in their own country (NRL, AFL, NRL again).  Did not seem to have harmed them, and they've mostly avoided any amateurish stuff-ups.

Yeah but there are 3 things against this

1: NZF is amateur hour. Holding a position of power has not been career advancing for anyone (maybe Bill McGowan but yeah...)

2: No idea what the pay is but I doubt its huge. Same could be said for other sports organisations I guess

3: Talent pool. Name someone with any credibility at sports management. The talent pool is thin and those that would be named, already have a gig.

When I think of the 2 best sports administrators in Jim Doyle and Martin Snedden, the rest would be secondary to them and those guys earn far more than NZF would pay at higher profile gigs. In the case of Snedden, I think he could walk into any job and name his price such is his success rate and gravatas. When you come back down the talent pool, what are you getting thats going to be effective for what you are going to pay? David White would trip over his own shoelaces if he knew how to tie them together and he runs NZC.

Personally, I would mortgage NZF to the eyeballs to get Snedden as CEO for 4 years. I think he would shake it up and it would eventually pay for itself.

Stage Punch
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over 14 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Mainland FC wrote:

Doloras wrote:

How? Do we have to do what Australia did, dissolve the whole operation and start from scratch?

Seems to have worked for them. But then, they do not have a mentality that an English accent is a substitute for proven competence when it comes to running a football organisation. 

Incidentally, a few of their(FFA that is) CEOs  came from a non-football background, but from a decent sport management background in their own country (NRL, AFL, NRL again).  Did not seem to have harmed them, and they've mostly avoided any amateurish stuff-ups.

Yeah but there are 3 things against this

1: NZF is amateur hour. Holding a position of power has not been career advancing for anyone (maybe Bill McGowan but yeah...)

2: No idea what the pay is but I doubt its huge. Same could be said for other sports organisations I guess

3: Talent pool. Name someone with any credibility at sports management. The talent pool is thin and those that would be named, already have a gig.

When I think of the 2 best sports administrators in Jim Doyle and Martin Snedden, the rest would be secondary to them and those guys earn far more than NZF would pay at higher profile gigs. In the case of Snedden, I think he could walk into any job and name his price such is his success rate and gravatas. When you come back down the talent pool, what are you getting thats going to be effective for what you are going to pay? David White would trip over his own shoelaces if he knew how to tie them together and he runs NZC.

Personally, I would mortgage NZF to the eyeballs to get Snedden as CEO for 4 years. I think he would shake it up and it would eventually pay for itself.

I believe the CEO job pays over 150k. So not peanuts.

Other staff in the office however...

bwtcf
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Marquee
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almost 12 years

Smithy wrote:

I believe the CEO job pays over 150k. So not peanuts.

Other staff in the office however...

Away kit FTW!

Cock
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Yeah but if you are a CEO, $150k (and lets just go $200k for the sake of argument) is peanuts. Good department managers in organisations can get that so why go through the grief and bullshark that is NZF CEO for peanuts.

I personally think thats low paying. Not peanuts by todays wage but certainly in terms of CEO wages.

Marquee
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about 12 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Yeah but if you are a CEO, $150k (and lets just go $200k for the sake of argument) is peanuts. Good department managers in organisations can get that so why go through the grief and bullshark that is NZF CEO for peanuts.

I personally think thats low paying. Not peanuts by todays wage but certainly in terms of CEO wages.

yeah but apparently comes with zero accountability ?
Stage Punch
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Jeff Vader wrote:

Yeah but if you are a CEO, $150k (and lets just go $200k for the sake of argument) is peanuts. Good department managers in organisations can get that so why go through the grief and bullshark that is NZF CEO for peanuts.

I personally think thats low paying. Not peanuts by todays wage but certainly in terms of CEO wages.

 

Maybe you're more up with the play on CEO wages than I am. But for a small business $200k is a pretty reasonable CEO wage.

Let's remember that the turnover and staff numbers of NZF aren't any more than your local BP service station.

Cock
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Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

Stage Punch
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Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Cock
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Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Outside netball, cricket and rugby, the rest of the jobs would be peanuts.
Life and death
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I'm not sure that even netball would be paying much

Phoenix Academy
24
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240
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about 12 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Outside netball, cricket and rugby, the rest of the jobs would be peanuts.

Yes, but given the football player base in this country has to be in top 3, surely.

Remembering that NZF receives money from EVERY single registered player in New Zealand each year - that's all the way from midget to senior players...

Marquee
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I'm not sure that even netball would be paying much

Wouldnt be so sure of that,i doubt Realene Castle would have come cheap.
Marquee
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Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Outside netball, cricket and rugby, the rest of the jobs would be peanuts.

Yes, but given the football player base in this country has to be in top 3, surely.

Remembering that NZF receives money from EVERY single registered player in New Zealand each year - that's all the way from midget to senior players...

That is precisely why I invoke the issue of missing accountability in NZF = because all players pay for the NZF salaries.

I suppose there might be enough people in the country who have decent background in management and maybe even sports management who are happy to take on a job in football. My point they do not have to have a football management background to be the CEO of NZF. My analogy was based on relative success of FFA in Australia where they recruited ex oval-ball CEOs because there may not have been managers of the calibre that the new organisation (FFA as opposed to the old Soccer Australia) required.

In other words, once there is a new broom put through that cozy shop at NZF over this eligibility fiasco, we could look beyond the football guys, local English Dutch or whatever. A combination of "skills, passion, and a modest lifestyle expectation" sounds about right for the CV :-)

First Team Squad
450
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1.1K
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almost 9 years

In an ideal world the huge legal bill coming for NZF's frivilous legal appeal against their Olywhite disqualification should come out of the wages of the people who screwed up. i.e NZF staff. But instead the bill will be paid from the annual subs of the thousands of kids who play the game. Think of the children!!!!

I guess we will have to wait until next year for NZF's annual accounts to see how much has gone out in "legal fees"

Legend
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over 14 years

Didn't the clown from CF who was involved in the 11 team league fiasco get on the NZF Board? Sums it up really

Stage Punch
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Feverish wrote:

Didn't the clown from CF who was involved in the 11 team league fiasco get on the NZF Board? Sums it up really

 

The CF chap is also the OFC representative, just to add lighter fluid to your fire.

Cock
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Mainland FC wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Outside netball, cricket and rugby, the rest of the jobs would be peanuts.

Yes, but given the football player base in this country has to be in top 3, surely.

Remembering that NZF receives money from EVERY single registered player in New Zealand each year - that's all the way from midget to senior players...

That is precisely why I invoke the issue of missing accountability in NZF = because all players pay for the NZF salaries.

I suppose there might be enough people in the country who have decent background in management and maybe even sports management who are happy to take on a job in football. My point they do not have to have a football management background to be the CEO of NZF. My analogy was based on relative success of FFA in Australia where they recruited ex oval-ball CEOs because there may not have been managers of the calibre that the new organisation (FFA as opposed to the old Soccer Australia) required.

In other words, once there is a new broom put through that cozy shop at NZF over this eligibility fiasco, we could look beyond the football guys, local English Dutch or whatever. A combination of "skills, passion, and a modest lifestyle expectation" sounds about right for the CV :-)

Isn't most of that cash at Federation level and not filtered up to NZF?

I have to say, I'd be very very surprised if there is a cleanout over this. One of the things I find a little odd is that Glyn Taylor did the eligibility stuff when I thought it would have been the technical team. Was there cross over from his time at NZF and FDJ? Did Taylor pass this onto Chris Kemp? Where does it sit now? So many questions.

While I would like FDJ to go, the more I think about it, I do kinda wonder if this does fall under him.

Starting XI
700
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2.3K
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over 9 years

Jeff Vader wrote:

Mainland FC wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Depends if we classify NZF it as a small business or not. If we do, then fair enough.

I don't. Its a national body (an incompetent one but a national one) and perhaps thats part of the problem - people see it as a 'small business'

 

I was only talking in terms of salary comparison.

If your salary comparison for CEO is other small national sports bodies then NZF would be one of the top payers. 

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Outside netball, cricket and rugby, the rest of the jobs would be peanuts.

Yes, but given the football player base in this country has to be in top 3, surely.

Remembering that NZF receives money from EVERY single registered player in New Zealand each year - that's all the way from midget to senior players...

That is precisely why I invoke the issue of missing accountability in NZF = because all players pay for the NZF salaries.

I suppose there might be enough people in the country who have decent background in management and maybe even sports management who are happy to take on a job in football. My point they do not have to have a football management background to be the CEO of NZF. My analogy was based on relative success of FFA in Australia where they recruited ex oval-ball CEOs because there may not have been managers of the calibre that the new organisation (FFA as opposed to the old Soccer Australia) required.

In other words, once there is a new broom put through that cozy shop at NZF over this eligibility fiasco, we could look beyond the football guys, local English Dutch or whatever. A combination of "skills, passion, and a modest lifestyle expectation" sounds about right for the CV :-)

Isn't most of that cash at Federation level and not filtered up to NZF?

I have to say, I'd be very very surprised if there is a cleanout over this. One of the things I find a little odd is that Glyn Taylor did the eligibility stuff when I thought it would have been the technical team. Was there cross over from his time at NZF and FDJ? Did Taylor pass this onto Chris Kemp? Where does it sit now? So many questions.

While I would like FDJ to go, the more I think about it, I do kinda wonder if this does fall under him.

in the AFF area for a senior player there is very little change out of $100 which goes to AFF and NZF.  I don't have the breakdown with me but for me this is the number 1 area which is stopping football grow - some sports it's only $150 total for a senior player but in football clubs have to cover costs as well as levies which pushes most senior subs into the $200-$300 mark.

Would be slightly more bearable if they did good things with the levy.....

Surge
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Can I have some lungs please miss
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about 14 years

Just heard on RS news De Jong is goneski... not sure whether jumped or pushed. No doubt more to come...

Cock
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Maybe NZF do listen to the football public... I don't think there will be many shedding a tear for poor old Fred. Means he needs his Sky gig more than ever now (which is actually a bad thing for the rest of us)

Starting XI
510
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over 12 years

...... fingers crossed for resigning from commentary too!

Appiah without the pace
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no comment from him in the press release so I'm gonna to assume he is the fall guy for the Olympics. Rob Sherman will probably take over. 

Listen here Fudgeface
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almost 12 years

2ndBest wrote:

no comment from him in the press release so I'm gonna to assume he is the fall guy for the Olympics. Rob Sherman will probably take over. 

Inside word is he is definitely the fall guy.
Tegal
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Head Sleuth
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patrick478 wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

no comment from him in the press release so I'm gonna to assume he is the fall guy for the Olympics. Rob Sherman will probably take over. 

Inside word is he is definitely the fall guy.

You been in contact with nufc's balls? 

Marquee
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about 12 years

So he accepts responsibility for a cataclysmic fudge up and gets to stay till the end of the year?

Give him a cardboard box and tell to be gone by 5pm.

Phoenix Academy
55
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200
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Legend
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sthn.jeff wrote:

So he accepts responsibility for a cataclysmic fudge up and gets to stay till the end of the year?

Give him a cardboard box and tell to be gone by 5pm.

A non traceable brown envelope is the preferred method of Fifa

Legend
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Groff wrote:

...... fingers crossed for resigning from commentary too!

I sure hope it wasn't so that he could concentrate on his commentating

Legend
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Jeff Vader wrote:

Maybe NZF do listen to the football public... I don't think there will be many shedding a tear for poor old Fred. Means he needs his Sky gig more than ever now (which is actually a bad thing for the rest of us)

Moar stars
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Trialist
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almost 7 years

Thank Christ Fred jumped now for the rest, Martin, Hudson ,Beasley Gothard ,Readings Robinson, and Sherman. let's own our game and get Kiwis involved. Fred got rid of a lot of good people,  administrators and coaches. The last time we had a shambles like this we got rid of McGowan and Smalley and the game went ahead.

Phoenix Academy
190
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340
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about 7 years

so in the last few days the NZF President goes to mend the bridges with the OFC and De Jong is sacked. This means the eligibility hearing went as well as the All Whites did v Mynamar and the guys are scurrying around trying to limit damage with the OFC and Martin has his fall guy. 

Martins hands were tied here. He is not responsible for checking eligibility per se etc so it was either Fred, Rob or both. We really are none the wiser whether this was a governance issue (ie there was no Board and CEO endorsed process for player recruitment/team selections and clearance for international comps and no internal review set up) or whether the processes and checks and balances were not adhered to. If it's a governance issue then the CEO and Chairman are as culpable as Fred is. 

Martin seems to be a man for change (think the TV deal, public articulation of his vision for football etc) and not one to stand still. We will see what sort of CEO we have over re next few months..,

PS- we need some games in Oct and Nov so we can talk about something else

Starting XI
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heyref wrote:

Thank Christ Fred jumped now for the rest, Martin, Hudson ,Beasley Gothard ,Readings Robinson, and Sherman. let's own our game and get Kiwis involved. Fred got rid of a lot of good people,  administrators and coaches. The last time we had a shambles like this we got rid of McGowan and Smalley and the game went ahead.

Really?  That's quite the chip on the shoulder against NZF. I think many of our problems stemmed from FDJ and Frank Van Hattum.  Both gone now thankfully.

Martin seems to have done more for promoting the NZFC/ASBP the last two seasons then has happened in years.

Marquee
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sthn.jeff wrote:

So he accepts responsibility for a cataclysmic fudge up and gets to stay till the end of the year?

Give him a cardboard box and tell to be gone by 5pm.

If we consider the length and cost of how long it took the previous, unloved Christchurch City Council CEO to leave his post to be the golden standard of NZ public service, then I think we should consider ourselves lucky with FDJ's departure so soon on the horizon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Marryatt

Life and death
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I think this well and truly signifies that NZF admit they got it terribly wrong. If not, why not wait until the outcome of the appeal and then claim is was simply a matter of wrongly interpreting the rules. Martin said today there will be a full report coming after the appeal is over, I hope they make it public because it needs to be if they are to save any face at all and go foward.

Cock
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I listened to Fred on the radio and I have to give him kudos for taking responsibility for his department and walking - If Blatter could learn that trick, football would be in better shape. That being said, I think he knew he was probably going to get fired over it anyway.

The one thing that struck me was that it felt like on the radio, he was saying that his team should have sorted it and he is taking responsibility for the errors of the team as HOD. I guess he feels he has done no wrong but is doing the right thing.

Life and death
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I don't know Jeff..... If it was an honest mistake or something of that ilk, then why would he be resigning? They would be able to weather that storm I would have thought. He must of been under pressure to resign because there was a major fudge up [beyond being a mere mistake] for that to happen surely? If Martin is as switched on as some presume, he would be getting rid of the deadwood/incompetents and Fred is a victim of this clean out. This really is going to be a test for Martin in how he plays this whole thing after the appeal.

Budgie lover
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Well, there is the U17 debacle as well. 

Fred might have felt marginalised due to Hudson calling the shots on coaching appointments when you would expect it to be the High Performance Manager who decides on and implements the coaching/management framework.

Or Fred finally felt he was out of his depth and decided to put his feet up...

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