Crazy to think Marco Rojas was on the bench!? Was he injured? So two guys playing in Germany from that last squad and a few at the Phoenix or UK academies. You could argue our players were in better environments this time round.
New Zealand Men's U-20s
I have no doubt that a better prepared team might have gotten better results.
However, junior sides are not about developing teams, they are about developing players. Would two weeks playing games in Europe have made these guys better individuals? I doubt it. When we have limited resources I'm not sure international tours are really the way to go at U20 level - if you're not playing pro football by then I'm not sure this is going to change anything.
Yes, we need our guys to get international exposure. But previous tournaments at this age group have shown that the majority of this team won't go on to pro football (who aren't there already) let alone the All Whites so is it really worth spending a load of money on preparing them for 3 matches which we are likely to lose anyway?
In the end I think it comes back to the same old story, spend the money where it is likely to improve our overall playing stocks - improve coaching standards and methods across the board, focus on younger players (like the 17s) who still have time to improve and try and get guys into professional football where we can.
Very well thought out post JD.
I have no doubt that a better prepared team might have gotten better results.
However, junior sides are not about developing teams, they are about developing players. Would two weeks playing games in Europe have made these guys better individuals? I doubt it. When we have limited resources I'm not sure international tours are really the way to go at U20 level - if you're not playing pro football by then I'm not sure this is going to change anything.
Yes, we need our guys to get international exposure. But previous tournaments at this age group have shown that the majority of this team won't go on to pro football (who aren't there already) let alone the All Whites so is it really worth spending a load of money on preparing them for 3 matches which we are likely to lose anyway?
In the end I think it comes back to the same old story, spend the money where it is likely to improve our overall playing stocks - improve coaching standards and methods across the board, focus on younger players (like the 17s) who still have time to improve and try and get guys into professional football where we can.
Very well thought out post JD.
Yeah I disagree. Its a shop window for a lot of professional clubs. More players are signed to clubs at the U20s than the 17s. If we had a better build up and thus the team had more time together we would've put up a better showing and more chance of seeing players go on to professional clubs. Imagine if we had another Suwon Cup to go to in May before the Australia game? It could've been a lot closer. Just because the trend has been that players don't tend to go on to pro clubs from NZ doesn't mean it won't/can't change.
I have no doubt that a better prepared team might have gotten better results.
However, junior sides are not about developing teams, they are about developing players. Would two weeks playing games in Europe have made these guys better individuals? I doubt it. When we have limited resources I'm not sure international tours are really the way to go at U20 level - if you're not playing pro football by then I'm not sure this is going to change anything.
Yes, we need our guys to get international exposure. But previous tournaments at this age group have shown that the majority of this team won't go on to pro football (who aren't there already) let alone the All Whites so is it really worth spending a load of money on preparing them for 3 matches which we are likely to lose anyway?
In the end I think it comes back to the same old story, spend the money where it is likely to improve our overall playing stocks - improve coaching standards and methods across the board, focus on younger players (like the 17s) who still have time to improve and try and get guys into professional football where we can.
Very well thought out post JD.
17s would get killed.
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I have no doubt that a better prepared team might have gotten better results.
However, junior sides are not about developing teams, they are about developing players. Would two weeks playing games in Europe have made these guys better individuals? I doubt it. When we have limited resources I'm not sure international tours are really the way to go at U20 level - if you're not playing pro football by then I'm not sure this is going to change anything.
Yes, we need our guys to get international exposure. But previous tournaments at this age group have shown that the majority of this team won't go on to pro football (who aren't there already) let alone the All Whites so is it really worth spending a load of money on preparing them for 3 matches which we are likely to lose anyway?
In the end I think it comes back to the same old story, spend the money where it is likely to improve our overall playing stocks - improve coaching standards and methods across the board, focus on younger players (like the 17s) who still have time to improve and try and get guys into professional football where we can.
Very well thought out post JD.
Yeah I disagree. Its a shop window for a lot of professional clubs.
This is pretty much a myth.
Used to be the case in the early days of this tournament, but clubs now either scout and develop their players much younger or they enter the transfer market for established players.
I challenge you to find more than a small handful of players who were signed immediately following the 2011 or 2009 tournaments.
And, remember that (as El_grap has pointed out) a majority of top European talent is unavailable for this tournament because they are already on the books of pro clubs. So it is de facto a tournament for those who haven't made it. As JD says, they're not likely to.
Of course there'll always be a few outliers. Bolters who hit the scene. But they prove the rule more than anything.
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I enjoyed watching Andy Bevin play for Napier last weekend. He has matured into a very fine Central League player.
Coey Turipa was playing in Brisbane for Premier League outfit Wynnum Wolves. Not sure if he still is.
Galbraith was in Sydney playing for APIA. Again, not sure if he still is. Andy Bevin was there last year too but obviously didn't stay.
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I enjoyed watching Andy Bevin play for Napier last weekend. He has matured into a very fine Central League player.
Coey Turipa was playing in Brisbane for Premier League outfit Wynnum Wolves. Not sure if he still is.
Galbraith was in Sydney playing for APIA. Again, not sure if he still is. Andy Bevin was there last year too but obviously didn't stay.
Bevin must be back on his Summer Holidays again, last year he spent it with APIA Tigers and did very well. Turned down a spot in the first intake of the FSE, to remain at College.
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I enjoyed watching Andy Bevin play for Napier last weekend. He has matured into a very fine Central League player.
Coey Turipa was playing in Brisbane for Premier League outfit Wynnum Wolves. Not sure if he still is.
Galbraith was in Sydney playing for APIA. Again, not sure if he still is. Andy Bevin was there last year too but obviously didn't stay.
Lovemore was badly crocked playing for Hawkes Bay Utd in the ASB and was out for much of the year.
Is Bevin in the worth a look basket?
Was a case of full contract or nothing last time around right? Would he offer anything that Fenton and Boyd haven't so far? (dare I say it, goals! though Louis is a much more versatile player or hasn't really stuck himself to one position yet)
Andy Bevin was a very fine Central League player two years ago. It's a shame but if he hasn't grabbed the eye of anyone by now he may never go any higher than ASBP or NSWPL
Yeah true. I quite like Bevin.
A-League? Sure, why not. He's scoring goals in the NSWPL so probably worth a wee look. Wouldn't expect too much too soon though.
I always said that Bevin lacked the pace to make it at the next level.
Yeah true. I quite like Bevin.
A-League? Sure, why not. He's scoring goals in the NSWPL so probably worth a wee look. Wouldn't expect too much too soon though.
Pav is also scoring goals in NSWPL.
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I enjoyed watching Andy Bevin play for Napier last weekend. He has matured into a very fine Central League player.
Coey Turipa was playing in Brisbane for Premier League outfit Wynnum Wolves. Not sure if he still is.
Galbraith was in Sydney playing for APIA. Again, not sure if he still is. Andy Bevin was there last year too but obviously didn't stay.
Bevin must be back on his Summer Holidays again, last year he spent it with APIA Tigers and did very well. Turned down a spot in the first intake of the FSE, to remain at College.
Was playing for NCR last week.
I always said that Bevin lacked the pace to make it at the next level.
we seemed to improve as the tourny went on.
at the start of the tournament we were a shambles and poor technically, but also not particularly well organised. worst of all for me, everyone seemed to just stand in their position; like we'd missed football evolution for the last 30 years.
by the end of the 3rd game i felt that we were playing with a lot more energy and frequently occupying the space between the lines. we looked cohesive and we contributed to each game as opposed to standing back and being reactive.
for that, credit to milicich and his troops.
So what business do we have in holding a World Under-20 Cup if we're not competetive against B & C - grade players from established football nations? If you accept that as a given then there's quite a few risks here. 1. We stop trying. 2. We're going to be humiliated on the pitch in our own backyard. 2. We're going to be humiliated by the pro rugby/rowing/cycling NZ media. 4. We establish an international reputation as enthusiastic but lousy amateurs that will linger for years to come.
We can't accept it. Same as why should we accept defeat against our next World Cup opponents? We just have to keep on looking for ways of raising our game. I believe some people are presently busy doing this, thank god.
[/quote]Hopefully by hosting the next U20 WC we will get teams that will come here before hand and give us a better lead in to the world cup
It happened when we hosted the U17 women in 2008 visits from the Korea Republic, Germany, USA, Australia, Canada - Fingers crossed!
A lot of those players have gone on to something decent.
What's happened to:
Galbraith, Bevin, Lovemore and Turipa?
and is Nikko Boxall related to Michael (or the same guy?) and how's he tracking?
Are any of the 2011 under-20s in the frame for the 'Nix?? I remember Lovemore was briefly.
I enjoyed watching Andy Bevin play for Napier last weekend. He has matured into a very fine Central League player.
Coey Turipa was playing in Brisbane for Premier League outfit Wynnum Wolves. Not sure if he still is.
Galbraith was in Sydney playing for APIA. Again, not sure if he still is. Andy Bevin was there last year too but obviously didn't stay.
Bevin must be back on his Summer Holidays again, last year he spent it with APIA Tigers and did very well. Turned down a spot in the first intake of the FSE, to remain at College.
Was playing for NCR last week.
Coey Turipa was an over-age player for the Nelson Falcons. Played every minute for them. Currently has 8 clean sheets from 12 games for Nelson Suburbs who are leading the Mainland Premier League. Easily his best season and I expect him to be in the Canterbury United squad. Still young for a keeper so hopefully he can finally get some minutes in the ASB Premiership.
Never rated him at all.
Watched all 3 games - must say i think the lack of preparation showed more than anything.
Lots of talk about Crocombe - definitely seems he is being made into a bit of a scapegoat for his 2 mistakes, which are highlighted because they lead to goals. Crocomb made some very impressive saves (he looks a great shot stopper) in both his games. Saying that I'm surprised he played in the last one because Basalaj played ok, albeit pretty much without being tested, i cant understand changing the goalkeepers back and forth for each game - stick to one or the other surely?
Anyway, I dont particularly have a strong opinion on him as a player because I (like most of you) have only seen him play in 2 games where we can safely assume he wasnt at his best. There's just something that doesnt feel comfortable about over criticising these boys when realistically most of our future All Whites will be coming from this bunch. There's a reason we were the lowest seed in this competition and the rushed prep we had in the build up really didn't help us one bit. I felt we only started playing with any cohesion in the 3rd game. We really need to sort that out for future tournaments if we want to keep improving as a nation.
There were definitely positives in the form of Boyd, Fenton, Howieson and Thomas, who impressed. I found the campaign very intriguing and really don't see why the immediate response to it is so negative - it's not like we're England who were actually expected to get good results and have also left their group without a win.
Any student of the game can see that Crocombe has terrible positioning in goal. Long story short he is a nightmare!
Agree about the lack of prep and I think that 0-5 loss to Australia was incredibly damaging. Milicich can take a lot of blame for the way we played in the tournament though. Long balls to isolated strikers just one example. Nice guy but very limited. Emblem could've perhaps got much better out of the players. Positive approach.
I'd go ahead and say Fenton really didn't do much. Same for Thomas
Only real highlights were Howieson and Tuiloma. Payne and Boyd needed to be up front and we probably needed to be playing a 4-4-2 to get any cohesion going.
Also found it odd Gulley was our best player in Fiji yet he was sub here. Should've been partnering Howieson in midfield. When he came on against Croatia he looked a tad lost thought but they all did.
I strongly disagree having watched him play for Oxford. He kept Luke McCormack out of the starting 11 and McCormack is arguably a better keeper then anyone eligible for NZ at the moment (or at least he was prior to his prison sentence).
Don't judge until you've seen him play with others who aren't out of their depth and also lets not forget Basalaj let in a shocker too.
Everyone is a Goalkeeping expert...
Uzbekistan and Uruguay both into the quarters.
Pete
Are the smaller teams getting that? If other teams relative to where we would be in AFC are getting that then that's fine. I suspect they are not and probably neither would we. The A League is also a league that gets coverage and played in stadiums... It has marketing and production. Does the ASBP have that? Hard to get 35m when we play at shit holes with 3 men and a dog watching, you may or may not have 1 camera and the football quality is questionable at best, fucking awful at worst.
That aside, the only thing we actually have that is worth anything is AW games. What are they likely to command? 300-400k a game? Hardly enough to support youth programmes in AFC considering how often the AWs play which is not often.
From what I've read, all AFC members are paid US$ one million per international fixture televised. World Sports Group paid the AFC about US$ one billion for the rights to all AFC fixtures including internationals and AFC Champions League for four years. WSG sell packages to national broadcasters in Asia and the other continents (including North America where a sports satellite channel specialises in Asian sport) of 1300 games in a four year block. Thus very large sums of revenue are generated which the AFC distributes back to national associations.
However, WSG have increased the amount they sell matches for so much in recent years, some Asian broadcasters have refused to buy rights to even their own country's internationals -this has meant no broadcast of South Korean home World Cup qualifiers in that country recently and Iranian national TV also refusing to pay out.
From a discussion of Iranian TV's (IRIB) dispute and WSG's response: http://kabirnews.com/world-sport-group-clarifies-issues-over-the-price-of-broadcasting-rights/3235/
"The broadcast rights fee which we are negotiating with IRIB for the new cycle is US$11 million for all AFC national team and club competitions, which consist of approximately 1,300 matches over a four year period, not just the FIFA World Cup 2014 AFC qualifying matches. To put this figure into context, it represents only a tiny fraction of the rights fees being paid by other countries in the Middle-East for the same."
As you say, would depend on how often the All Whites played as to how much revenue NZ Football received.
Iraq and Sth Korea join Uzbekistan in quarters
good tournament for Asia
More quarter-finalists than either Europe or South America.
Uzbeks didnt look much. Chile will win this
I don't feel so bad now I see England, Australia and the USA also finished bottom of their groups and failed to win a game - so all the English-speaking participants were pants. Seems the future of football does not lie with us English-speakers...
England - finished below Egypt in their group, Australia finished below El Salvador...
http://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/standings/index.html
Then again, I know that if our u-20's played England, Australia or USA, they's probably run rings around us...(Australia already did pre-tournament).
http://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/matches/index.html
Surprised the Uzbeks thrashed Greece 3-1 in the second round, Uruguay from our group through to the quarters too.
Resting nine players against us in their last game seems to have back-fired on Croatia, going down 2-0 to Chile, the only South Americans left in the quarters...
I'm picking France, Spain, South Korea and Chile for the semis...and a France v Spain final.
I don't feel so bad now I see England, Australia and the USA also finished bottom of their groups and failed to win a game - so all the English-speaking participants were pants. Seems the future of football does not lie with us English-speakers...
England - finished below Egypt in their group, Australia finished below El Salvador...
https://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/standings/index.html
Then again, I know that if our u-20's played England, Australia or USA, they's probably run rings around us...(Australia already did pre-tournament).
https://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/matches/index.html
Surprised the Uzbeks thrashed Greece 3-1 in the second round, Uruguay from our group through to the quarters too.
Resting nine players against us in their last game seems to have back-fired on Croatia, going down 2-0 to Chile, the only South Americans left in the quarters...
I'm picking France, Spain, South Korea and Chile for the semis...and a France v Spain final.
Expect Milicich to be in the paper tomorrow about the 20s.
Covering his ass?
Milicich won't coach a national team again, Ricki will get the next U20s and if he doesn't Emblen will.
Emblem will get it.
Hope so. Emblen didn't agree with some of Milicich's selections. He would be a great choice.
Emblen is getting results with any team he touches right now. Maybe not in terms of 'results' but the manner in which his teams play. I suspect he will be the next national coach in December or August. I think the players will make that known for sure.
It's a big call but all signs are pointing to it. Olys, A side....
Bet that will make Mili choke on his breakfast.
Emblen is getting results with any team he touches right now. Maybe not in terms of 'results' but the manner in which his teams play. I suspect he will be the next national coach in December or August. I think the players will make that known for sure.
It's a big call but all signs are pointing to it. Olys, A side....
Bet that will make Mili choke on his breakfast.
Uzbeks 0 France 4 Uruguay 1 Spain 0
France, Ghana, Iraq & Uruguay into the semis: a spread of four of the six FIFA confederations represented.
The two who failed to progress: Oceania and CONCAF. Interesting.
Uruguay beat Iraq on pens. France beat Ghana. Uruguay France final.