4-1, that was a little dissapointing after the Guinea win. Couple of things first, the US team are a bunch of diving whiners! even the penalty was incredibly soft - albeit the right call as Garbett stuck his foot out and made contact. Bell has to be the most overrated player in this squad, overly physical, constantly behind the play on defensive and aimless passing when he has the ball. Id have preferred we took an U23 player instead of him - waste of space. Clearly the US came out to win and win well, they caught us napping in the first half and scored 2 scrappy goals and the pen. Can't point the finger at Paulsen for any of them, first was a missed header by Bell and a non clearance by Boxall that left Bindon and surman scarmbling on the line. Pen was clear and just careless by Garbett. The third again was scrappy but well composed by the US #6. Hopefully we can dust ourselves off for the French who will be tough, and pray they are off their game. If Bell starts I'll be calling for Bazely's head on a plate!
Bazeley is contracted until after the World Cup. If NZF had any sense they'd have made him earn the right to take the team to the tournament, giving themselves the opportunity to bring someone else in, say, after qualification was secured. Would have been tempting to many coaches, an 18 month job like that. But we all know NZF are morons so no surprises there.
Basically every national coach ever for any team has had their contract length determined by major tournaments, to do otherwise would be tacit admittance that they do not consider him to be the right candidate in the first instance and a complete undermining of his status as coach, so that was never going to happen. That's regardless of one's opinion of Bazeley.
As for tendering the job to any random coach, I think you overestimate the interest that it would get. National team coaching is different to club coaching so a lot wouldn't entertain it, and all top national team coaches would be employed. You would end up massively overpaying for a 'name' that doesn't deliver and is available for a reason. The Socceroos with Bert van Warwijk a prime example. Not to mention you lose any accrued team tactical fluidity; if the new coach wants to implement a new style they'd have half-a-dozen windows to do so.
Loss today wasn't fun - but we have to temper expectations - a combined 11 arguably features 11 Americans.
We went from being well organised v Guinea to a total shambles.
Garbett has so much energy but needs to learn how to manage it to be the best player he is capable of.
Even the second goal was from a lack of discipline.
The US had everything to play for. We should have tried to force them to play and push players forward. Our slow build up played into the hands of their low block and counter - we needed to draw them out.
To be fair that may have been the plan but after 10 minutes it was shot to pieces.
Anyway, discipline and controlled aggression is the key for players like Garbett, Sutton.
I was always suspicious that our discussions around Wood’s understudy were clouded because you knew some on the forum who might have been family or close to those under discussion!
Certainly I remember one game on the road in NZ when I was lucky enough to chat with 4-5 family members and coaches of players before the main game, just in the stands and lining up for drinks.
One of the Football Ferns dad's posts on these forums regularly
This is a reality check. The USA are a second tier football nation and we are not. Their players were bigger, stronger, faster with better technique playing off both feet and moving the ball much faster. You can’t blame the coach when all your players are clearly inferior to the opposition…Bazeley isn’t a magician.
What a pointless comment. Upsets happen all the time in football. Coaches can make the most of lesser resources and draw with or even beat superior teams, and it happens quite often. The result was not preordained.
You can't seriously look at what happened today and say Bazeley did the best he could, he didn't stand a chance against the mighty second tier USA with his pathetic squad.
Bindon at RB and not properly utilising Randall or OVH are charges against Bazeley for starters. Van Hattum at least has been playing in a professional open age level.
Not bringing in one of our professional fullbacks as like for like replacement for Payne.
Putting too much pressure on Garbett with the captaincy. Reminds me a bit of the Vettori captaincy. A good player but a terrible period of results for the team.
Not looking at a shorter impact period for Singh, maybe starting Conchie perhaps allowing Bell to get forward more.
Not sure, but he’s the manager. Buck stops with him.
Lucky to get away with not watching that tbh. Usually use phone for football and tele and the laptop for work, so I wasn’t that keen on VPNning etc etc just for the Olympic footy.
But can’t find a replay or highlights anywhere useful yet and it’s bugging me to not know who is right.
Let's see how they go against France. There has been a massive change in opinion from some between the Guinea and USA games. Guinea was our 2nd ever win and we've only made knockouts once before (with an easy group!). It's lazy to just default to "Bazeley bad" any game that doesn't go to plan.
An honourable loss or better and there will definitely be some positives to take from the tournament, whether we advance or not.
I have a feeling Guinea after two narrow losses will bag a result against the US.
Didn't see the game, so hard to comment. Gut feeling was it would be a 2 goal margin loss.
Selection calls with hindsight Bazeley probably got wrong. Not starting Randall, and maybe should have gone 3/5 at the back, with Sheridan starting at RB and Bindon moved in as the 3rd CB. That may have kept the game scoreless for longer, and got the Americans feeling a little anxious. They had to win to stay alive
But they have a side of players either starting in Europe or the MLS. Our run on side included a guy that plays MLS Next Pro, and another who just signed for a MLS club, but who also could play out the rest of 2024 in MLS Next Pro. Their playing resouces are huge compared to ours, but yes doesn't mean we shouldn't try come up with a smart plan to try get a result. I think in this case a back 3/5 with the aim to frustrate them, and counter may have been the best idea. If Old was available, that would have assisted a plan like that
I still reckon the AWs are a chance against them in the September window, if we have all of Wood, Stamenic & Cacace available, and they don't select many of their European pros. They sometimes do go with just mainly domestic MLS selections.
Can see the French game unfortunately being an even bigger loss. But would like to see Sheridan given a chance now. Big benefit for the Nix giving him mins at this higher level. A back 3/5 could just all mean NZ get flooded in midfield, but nothing to lose and see how it goes for 45 mins and then review at HT.
It's not the worst Olympics campaign ever, if it finishes 1W & 2L plus a number of young players exposed to international football.
Let's see how they go against France. There has been a massive change in opinion from some between the Guinea and USA games. Guinea was our 2nd ever win and we've only made knockouts once before (with an easy group!). It's lazy to just default to "Bazeley bad" any game that doesn't go to plan.
An honourable loss or better and there will definitely be some positives to take from the tournament, whether we advance or not.
I have a feeling Guinea after two narrow losses will bag a result against the US.
Yeh fair call.
Most of what I’m complaining about like the RB issue I’ve complained about before and the frustration of this being about the only football game on the planet I can’t get easy access to tell how we did probably only adds to it. We’ve had a good run with the Nix, AFC and the AWs and this has been our first real setback in mens footy in some time, so I want to pick through it.
However against Guinea I thought we got opened up and their finishing was poor too many times.
Anyway, side note: watched Nadeshiko, the Japanese women’s side play Spain. If England men’s want a coach who can play attractive progressive football, one touch, at pace they should be looking for a coach out of the Japanese women’s game. Not even sure if I’m joking. It would be something I’d genuinely like to see happen.
We didn't concede two early goals because we were playing a back 4, it was an unnecessary penalty giveaway for the first and a dead ball penalty box pinball incident for the second. We never recovered after that, and that's understandable, but you hope some lessons were learned by coaches and players. The team probably needed to be singularly focused about keeping things really tight and giving nothing away to start given the tournament context at that moment, and perhaps they weren't, perhaps they were given instructions to try and go out and be ambitious and impose themselves instead. And when things went wrong, the team probably needed more characters like Rufer, we lack a bit of vocal leadership.
I hope we don't switch to a back 5 now, there's no point, it is highly likely we need a win and maybe even a big one to progress, and that just isn't likely against France, so we may as well use it as a second chance to try our preferred game against a high quality opposition. Maybe you'd have a good argument for that if a point would definitely be enough, but that's not the case here. I think if we learn the lessons from this game there is no reason we can't come away with a respectable loss. Would be cool to see Bindon/Surman have a go as a CB pairing against a really top team. I'd like to see Sheridan get a start at RB or even try Boxall there, he's played there before. I want to see Randall & OVH get starts too. And give Conchie some decent minutes at some point. It'll be so disappointing if Bazeley starts the same team again.
I hope Bazeley and his staff are doing lots of work fixing the defense. Because if they are not well drilled before the next game then France will rip them apart. Defending is not just about the back four being brave and the keeper saving shots. It’s about defending as a team from the front to the back. It’s about tracking and communication across the whole team. Against Guinea we were saved by Paulson and some wayward shooting. But the ease which they moved into shooting positions was alarming. IMO Bazeley is a journeyman coach, but the basic requirement of any coach is to get their team to defend. The match against France could be messy.
Some fantastic takes in this thread. I agree - no significant tactical changes required, the focus should be on maintaining morale, banishing demons from the first 30 mins of the USA game, and coming into the match with the same tight mindset we usually would against an opponent of this calibre knowing we're capable of frustrating them.
RB dilemma is tough. Bindon should never, ever be anywhere near consideration for the senior RB slot given how good he is at CB (especially being suited for that LCB role, a natural fit alongside Boxall and eventually Surman). However in an Olympic context, where we already have two fantastic CBs for the level and a RB who has four senior appearances + no prior international experience, it's a reasonable choice to make (if a bit forced)
We didn't concede two early goals because we were playing a back 4, it was an unnecessary penalty giveaway for the first and a dead ball penalty box pinball incident for the second. We never recovered after that, and that's understandable, but you hope some lessons were learned by coaches and players. The team probably needed to be singularly focused about keeping things really tight and giving nothing away to start given the tournament context at that moment, and perhaps they weren't, perhaps they were given instructions to try and go out and be ambitious and impose themselves instead. And when things went wrong, the team probably needed more characters like Rufer, we lack a bit of vocal leadership.
I hope we don't switch to a back 5 now, there's no point, it is highly likely we need a win and maybe even a big one to progress, and that just isn't likely against France, so we may as well use it as a second chance to try our preferred game against a high quality opposition. Maybe you'd have a good argument for that if a point would definitely be enough, but that's not the case here. I think if we learn the lessons from this game there is no reason we can't come away with a respectable loss. Would be cool to see Bindon/Surman have a go as a CB pairing against a really top team. I'd like to see Sheridan get a start at RB or even try Boxall there, he's played there before. I want to see Randall & OVH get starts too. And give Conchie some decent minutes at some point. It'll be so disappointing if Bazeley starts the same team again.
Boxall is 36, and hasn't played RB for at least 5 years, likely longer. Even though he still looks to keep himself in top physical shape, you can't ask him to play that gruelling up & down role in 30 degree heat. It's a job for much younger legs.
Guinea somehow kept France scoreless for 75 mins. Whatever they did Bazeley should be looking at closely. They had 3 CBs (same 3 who started against us). Not saying a back 3/5 is automatically the setup against the French, but I feel if the plan is to give Sheridan a start then yes it is 3 CBs.
Marseille will be an intimidating cauldron, with a very different atmosphere to our first 2 games. The 60,000 home crowd will get right behind the French, and I'm guessing they will rotate their team with 3-4 youngsters totally pumped to get their first start at their home Olympics. We will just be road kill in the eyes of the locals. The first 15-20 mins I'm guessing will be super tough. It would not surprise if we are totally under the pump to commence the game. You start Sheridan who is basically coming from the Central League, in that situation, you should help him out with an extra CB. As Austin above says, if we don't defend well we give ourselves no chance, and it could be ugly
But I'm just keen to see what Sheridan can do at this level. RB remains the problem child position, and he does look a good prospect. I have very low expectations for this game, so why not use it to see how young Matt goes, for the first half at least.
Edit - and yeah I've only seen the goal highlights of the US game, so have no context of how the match was unfolding, but the first 2 goals were soft. I love Garbett's attitude but man that was such a dumb pen to concede. So many team mates around him, why stick out a leg like that. Not sure you can blame Bazeley for that blunder or Zimmerman's 2nd goal. But again I don't know the match context, if the team were totally under the pump, then yeah higher chance of panic decisions being made
Oh and a minor thing perhaps but Boxall is also playing as the centre CB with Minnesota this MLS season as part of a back 3/5.
Whoever is the right back, whether it is a back 4 or 5, I dont expect them to be able to be doing much bombing forward, they'll be very busy defensively, and as such I don't think it would be such a bad idea to have Boxall there for this game (though I know he probably won't play there, I'd just like to see it is all).
Two of the US team in that 2017 game Acosta (Honduras) & Ebobisse (Cameroon), have now switched to other countries. So not just us & Aussie who have players fip flop after age group stuff.
Seems like NZ just consistently gets whupped by USA in men's age-grade football
Lost 4-1 in the 2024 Olympic U23s yesterday Lost 4-0 in 2023 U20 World Cup knockouts Lost 6-0 in 2019 U20WC knockouts Lost 4-0 in 2015 U20WC groups
People who’ve had coverage- what is wrong with Sarpreet? Hardly seen him in the highlights that I’ve managed to scrape together.
Just wondering if that but with Conchie Bell Garbett is better allowing Bell to get further forward and lay on assists if Sarpreet isn’t? Sounds like a mental thing to say m, but if he’s off form perhaps a shorter impact role might suit him better? It’d also keep Garbett out of the box defensively and in better goal scoring positions.
People who’ve had coverage- what is wrong with Sarpreet? Hardly seen him in the highlights that I’ve managed to scrape together.
Just wondering if that but with Conchie Bell Garbett is better allowing Bell to get further forward and lay on assists if Sarpreet isn’t? Sounds like a mental thing to say m, but if he’s off form perhaps a shorter impact role might suit him better? It’d also keep Garbett out of the box defensively and in better goal scoring positions.
Nah sarpreet is too busy covering Bells lack of effectiveness.
We blew it in the first thirty minutes, probably spoiling any hopes of progressing to the knockouts at the same time, and it was exactly what Italiano had talked about. It’s hard to get teams working with tactical cohesion with such a short time to prepare. The OlyWhites have the benefit of a number of players who’ve worked with Darren Bazeley and his staff heaps already, both with the All Whites and also the U20s... but they only had a short window together, with one known warm-up game and several late arrivals. Against Guinea it didn’t matter. They were as disjointed as we were and the OlyWhites rose to the occasion. Against the USA it was the complete opposite. Bazeley’s Boys looked passive and confused and then very quickly panicked. The back four was all over the place – they’d been too narrow against Guinea but the USA really stretched and discombobulated them. You could see it in the body language. You could see it in the simple mistakes they were making.
Ironically, Darren Bazeley copped some (valid) criticism for his tendency to switch to a back three at the last U20 World Cup despite the team being so much more balanced and effective with four guys back there. This was the opposite. They needed a back three (a back five, in effect) in order to cover the width without leaving big holes in the middle. To give individuals the cover to step aggressively into challenges and match the American intensity. Instead, all Baze did at half-time was swap out his ineffective wingers (Herdman and Bayliss off, Randall and Van Hattum on). When he did finally go to the back three, there were only fifteen minutes left... and we immediately scored a goal. Matt Sheridan came on at right wingback, Lukas Kelly-Heald came on at left-back, with Tyler Bindon moving centrally and Sam Sutton going into midfield.
Then again, the fact that the kiwis were so much better in the last quarter of an hour than they had been in the first quarter of an hour might, to be fair, have had more to do with the USA easing off. Perhaps the tactical reshuffle made no difference at all (although that’s just more evidence why it came too late).
In the other game in the group, France only won 1-0 against Guinea – with the African side producing an almighty backs-to-the-wall defensive performance that puts our win against them into some shinier context. France weren’t amazing though. They’ve not looked fluent at all yet but they’re fast and skilled, especially out wide, and that’s probably going to require the back five. Ideally with someone like Oskar van Hattum at RWB so that there’s still a bit of attacking edge (unless Baze reckons Matty Sheridan can handle the occasion, which maybe he can). Bazeley isn’t great at making changes on the fly during games but he’s definitely prone to a reactionary change between games. The OlyWhites would potentially still progress with a win against France... and until we don’t win, we have to try think we could win.
The suggestion by some that Sheridan shouldn't be tried because he's "basically central league" and will freeze like a deer in the headlights is wild. He's looked plenty good enough in the ALM and would be an infinitely better fit at RWB in a back 5 vs Bindon at RB in a 4. I haven't seen the US game but against guinea we got opened up a few times down the right when Bindon came too central to cover. He's just not a RB an playing him there is a cowards way out (maybe a bit extreme) because it's easy to justify the pick by saying "oh but he was playing RB a few times in league one last season!" That is all.
I vividly remember the AWs 2022 friendly verus Peru, in front of 40,000 loud noisy crazy Peruvian fans in Barcelona. After the Covid period it was the first AWs game with a crowd since Ireland in Dublin in 2019.
For some of the players their first ever game in front of a big crowd like that. A young Stamenic who at the time was on loan from FCK to HB Koge in the sedate Danish 2nd tier, started and had a bad first half. Poor touches, wayward passes. He looked very very nervous. Basically yeah froze. Hay took him off at HT for Lewis.
It can be a big shock playing in front of crowd like that the first time, especially against high quality opponents, feasting on any nervy mistake. Everything going against you, continuously on the back foot, and impossible with the noise to communicate with your team mates. The risk of feeling very alone out there if you make a bad mistake leading to a goal, and/or get the feeling the opposition are purposedly targeting you.
But I hope Bazeley starts Sheridan. He looked exciting in his Nix cameos. He'll learn a shark load from a game like this. However the one ALM start he got at Gosford he was off at 60 mins, after getting a tough time from Torres & Farrell. Tomorrow's intimidating crowd of 67,000 will be like nothing he's ever seen or heard before. It might be the more experienced OVH, who starts. Gets told to run himself into the ground for 55-60 mins. Then Sheridan gets a crack.
Regardless can yes see 3 CBs happening, and Bindon going back into his natural centre back slot. In Bazeley's defence he was intially going to play Payne at RB/RWB, with Bindon & Surman as his CBs in a back 4. LK-H the 3rd CB in any switch to a back 3/5. Payne getting injured & Cacace being unavailable (2 experienced full backs out) forced a rethink.
France will qualify with a victory or a draw. Even a defeat could see them through, unless USA also beat Guinea, in which case the three teams on six points would need to be separated by goal difference.
New Zealand must better USA's result to progress. If they were to both win, the group would be decided on goal difference.
Quotes
"It's a comfortable situation to be in when you have six points. But if we want to go all the way, we have to kill in both areas and not let the opponent breathe. If you want to win a title, you have to learn to kill [the game]." Thierry Henry, France coach
"It was a tough result against USA, but we’re looking forward to the France game and playing in front of a really big crowd. It’s a do-or-die game. Everything rides on it. We have to be fearless and just go for it." Ben Waine, New Zealand forward
Playing a back 5 didn't help our u20s at their most recent World Cup when they played the USA. I really hope we don't take another backwards step. I want the team to prove it was a bad day against the Americans and that they are better than that, and play their chosen game and see where it takes them when they don't concede two howlers in the first 15 minutes.
There is a massive heatwave sweeping across southern France. It was 43 degrees in Bordeaux yesterday. The French met service are saying early 30s for Marseille at 7pm kickoff but it will possibly hit 40 degrees inside the stadium . It will be an energy sapping game and Bazeley will need to empty the bench in the second half. In these conditions I think it would be better to park the bus and make the French do all the running. If it’s still 0-0 in the second half then all the pressure is on them. But it’s going to be a very very tough game for the kiwis.
There is a massive heatwave sweeping across southern France. It was 43 degrees in Bordeaux yesterday. The French met service are saying early 30s for Marseille at 7pm kickoff but it will possibly hit 40 degrees inside the stadium . It will be an energy sapping game and Bazeley will need to empty the bench in the second half. In these conditions I think it would be better to park the bus and make the French do all the running. If it’s still 0-0 in the second half then all the pressure is on them. But it’s going to be a very very tough game for the kiwis.
Yeah saw it was 40 degrees in Madrid yesterday, where have a family member currently. That's no fun for doing any sort of exercise.
Still it could be similar temps come the 2026 WC, especially in the USA cities, so a useful simulation in itself maybe.
Get the best players on the park in positions that suit them and see how it goes. The island experience should help them, but not too much running I’d say!
— New Zealand Football 🇳🇿 (@NZ_Football) July 30, 2024
🗣️ “Footballers like playing in big games and they like big crowds, that’s the dream, that’s why you play football, to try and play in these big games.”
The French press said that Henry may rest a few of his top players for this match including striker Lacazette. It won’t help the kiwis that much because the French bench has some excellent players including the delightfully named Desire Doure. He is a fantastic young player whom PSG and Bayern are trying to sign. Bayern offered 55 million euros but PSG has come back with 60 million. Don’t fancy the kiwis chances. They should try their best, relax and enjoy the atmosphere at one of the Europes most vibrant ground.
Rayan Cherki from Lyon is an excellent player as well. Rumors are Barossa Dortmund are trying to sign him and PSG possibly as well. Still very hot in Marseille today i think they are planning drink breaks. A nice glass of local Provincial rose would be very refreshing!
