New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

Even if he was ineligible, I don't think we have been afforded a due and proper process.

Fair enough. I guess I'm not comforted by the noises from NZF so far on this point. They seem to be arguing from emotion rather than fact or process point of view, and that doesn't seem like a good sign about all this.

So apparently at 11.30pm after a couple of days feeling probably suicidal and after a bitch of a journey coming back from the pits of the earth, the sacrificial lamb, is going to be wheeled out for a press conference. What's every going to do judge if he has a South African accent? Do they think by making it 11.30pm no media is going to be there?

Disgusting. Yet another example of NZ football ducking for cover. Mr Martin and no one else should be fronting this not a 20 year kid who is not to blame.

Fixed. But seriously - I wonder if our animus towards NZF isn't colouring our refusal to give them any benefit of the doubt in this.

have we reached peak shambles yet?

Former CEO Grant McKavanagh ripped into NZF in an interview for Prime News. Basically declared the whole thing a shambles and thinks the appeal is a non-starter.

Ex-employee in bitter rant shocker

After we voted against Blatter and none of the other OFC members did, I can't see the current FIFA regime being sympathetic to our cause

Yes, where is the explanation from OFC?  Surely they should be explaining their ruling as the governing body in all of this

Can we just resolve this the Sepp Blatter way?  NZF wears some tight shorts and make up, apologises to Vanuatu and then  NZF, Vanuatu and OFC all shake hands.

(And we get to play Fiji but still lose on penalties)

Just back from a holiday in the Islands to this. Unbelievable stuff up from our NZF

If we had lost and it was a Vanuatu player ineligible, due to an incompetency on their part, I am quite sure we would all be baying for the match result being reversed, as it has been, and taking no prisoners over that.

You have to have your technical ducks in a line, there is a lot at stake, and we didnt have it seems. Ethical fairness doesnt come into it.

Bye bye Olympic dream, next plan please Mr Hudson

If they beat us 2-0, and there was a small technicality for one of the elibility of their players who didn't have a huge bearing on the match (i.e. they haven't just played a Brazilian striker who scored a hat-trick) then no, I wouldn't be baying for blood. I'd say we shouldn't of lost to them in the first place anyway.

Something is real dodgy here. If we did wrong, then so be it, but the process doesn't sound close to fair.

Couple of new articles

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/70183486/tony...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/701...

Press conference tonight should be interesting - I think someone said the plane is in at 11.30pm - what to say, what to say.

Looks like we will argue that we didn't get to state our case during the appeal - hope we have one - if Hudson walks off the plane with Wynne's Fifa cert in his hand - peace in our time!!!

Wynne, Hudson and Martin all fronting media on arrival

It's funny how Guam is playing in Asia, yet it's just next to Micronesia....yet NZ will struggle to get into Asia.  Also interesting how much Guam have improved over the last decade playing in Asia...gone from double digit hidings to beating Turkmenistan and India in World Cup qualifiers.  By the way, it's that FIFA exemption cert that we really need for Wynne (and possibly others) to turn this all around I think...you'd think they would have released that info already, or are they just making life exciting for us and then BAM here it is!  One can hope ?

Micronesia found fielding an ineligible player, games have been awarded 3-0 to Tahiti, Fiji and Vanuatu.

Micronesia is not appealing the decision.

Now that is funny!

OK. I’m confident (mildly) of a good outcome. Notwithstanding that Articles 5,6 & 7, taken together, seem to me to written to befuddle any reader wanting to establish eligibility around bithplace, residence etc. I’m assuming there are no other regulations that apply and impact (there may well be of course).

There are all sorts of ways to look at things when taking those 3 articles together, depending on where you place the emphasis. Many at present (especially media) putting emphasis on the a,b,c,d conditions of article 7 (lived 5 years after 18 etc).

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I’m gonna put my emphasis on Article 5. Why? It has greater gravitas. Why? Because Art. 5 is the ‘Principles’. They are the first article under the section ‘eligibility to play for representative teams’. As principles, they have gotta hold a bit of gravitas.

Article 5 cl. 1 is as follows: ‘Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the association of that country.’

So, he’s perfectly entitled to play for NZ? I don’t see much in the remainder of5, 6 or 7 that rules him out. It’s a minefield however. Many things need to be established first (like proving that the implication within Art.7 is that Art. 7 is intended to apply only if you are trying to change from representing one country to representing another. He’s been sitting around for years with 2 options: represent SA or NZ. When the time came he chose NZ (as he’s entitled to according to ‘principles’ of Art.5 cl.1)

Great for lawyers, however, things considered I think I’ld rather be a lawyer on the NZ side. I’m not a lawyer so probably completely wrong. Comments?

Here’s the actual doc:

http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/02/58/14/48/2015fifastatutesen_neutral.pdf

Having not played for any other country at any level must surely help?

Fudge me.

The issue is that his permanent nationality (his passport) indeed is dependent on residence within this country (you get a passport by getting residence and then serving your time). 

However you cut, slice or dice this we are screwed

Was he the worst ever Jeff?

Nice use of shambolic, truly a great word.

Think you're being a bit harsh on Graham Seatter.....

Next question is: If someone here in NZF is in the wrong, will they fall on the sword or will they have to be pushed?

Whoever shifts blame the loudest gets to stay.

AucklandPhoenix wrote: The issue is that his permanent nationality (his passport) indeed is dependent on residence within this country (you get a passport by getting residence and then serving your time).

>>>  Yeah thanks for that. I had wondered what that part of clause is about. Seems a real strange way to word things (art.5 cl.1). We're OK then, if he says 1. I have a NZ passport 2. I'm keeping it and my keeping it is in no way dependent on residing in NZ. So I can play for the country. lol

However, I don't think that "Art. 7 is intended to apply only if you are trying to change from representing one country to representing another." - because if it is then there's nothing in those regulations to stop countries just handing out passports to talented players who haven't represented their birth nation. And countries definitely do that sort of thing -  in fact I believe NZ fast-tracked Irene van Dyk's citizenship so she could play netball for us. That very situation is why the rule exists, and Wynn's situation is why exemptions to it have been granted. The key questions really seem to be whether he's had an exemption granted, and whether OFC followed due process.

At least that's how I read it.

Damn it CT.  Stop nailing the issues down.  This off-season needs another 10 pages of speculation and accusations.

Mods - take control.

Irene I think was already very well known and a SA rep. Different.

hope that every media man gets their ass out to the airport for the 11.30pm press conference. 

Heck if it's not going to be streamed live on Maori TV, I may go and yell some questions

and on me

This is why FIFA put a time requirement in - so that there was a standardisation of how people became eligible for new nations, and to ensure it wasn't abused. 

lol Vanuatu selling passports for $162,000 a piece. That's excellent.

I see it's a recent policy, so presumably no time for someone to have bought one and played in their U23s yesterday. don't see anything in the regs about nationality that is dependent on size of wallet anyway?

Changed my mind twas a tad cruel ... 

BTW I am impressed about how you guys feed sharks fudge...

We can appeal all we like.

Own goal.

We are responsible for ensuring our players meet eligibility criteria, as are all countries, from what I'm hearing no one really bothered to check the rules that closely, all I hear so far is smoke and mirrors which doesn't imbue me with confidence that they even know who is responsible for checking eligibility. 

Methinks thou doest protest too much Mr Martin :(

Just saw Gourdies vid. He pretty much laid blame solely at the feet of Rob Pickstock and FDJ with Hudson being an accessory