OK, so the next step for OFC/All Whites is . . . ?
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All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams
OK, so the next step for OFC/All Whites is . . . ?
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Not sure whether it should be here or in the other thread section about OFC (not really one either) but it does deal with the AW next step at the next World Cup.
FIFA is going to have a meeting in December about qualifying pathways for the next world cup tournament to Brazil. It is likely that the oceania winner will play the 5th AFC team in playoffs again.
I would like the OFC winner and the runners-up to play in the AFC final groups with the other 10 AFC finalist making their previous two groups of five teams with byes into two groups of six teams without having byes. The two groups of five seem to work out OK except that the west asian teams totally FAILED. Since MBH is West Asian, there maybe a shake up on how they form the makeup of the final two AFC groups.
If the process takes us to the AFC final stage, I would like to see the OFC runners-up as well as the OFC winners be involved. For some time, some of the OFC teams had shocked us with a result and I personally like to see them rock some of the AFC teams as well. It sort of validate the possibility that OFC had it rough when it had to playoff with South America and that on the whole, we are not that far away from some of these other AFC teams. I don't think that some of the AFC teams would cope well with the OFC runners-up if the OFC side has a capable coach onside. Of course there is a gap between the two or three top south pacific team to the rest, but usually the top south pacific team does well (compared to the other teams) because of their coach they have at the time rather than any great skill factor.
So if the stars are aligned, I think that after the South Pacific Games where they get their gold, silver and bonze medalist. This should happen.
The gold medalists play against with NZ (being seeded) to determine the Oceania Nations Cup winner. This winner plays in the Confederation Cup. This should be the first set of matches.
But for the World Cup qualification, the Gold, Silver and Bonze Medalist to play with NZ for the two places in the final AFC group stage. These should be the second set of matches.
Have them separate. The difference is that the Gold Medalist is not necessary the runners-up for the World Cup 3rd OFC stage qualifying stage at the moment of time. What we had before was that the Gold, silver and Bonze medalist go in a group with us and that the top two play again for the berth in Confederation Cup and for a World Cup final playoff. Quite meaningless to suggest that the Silver and Bonze medalist having done a regional performance can now have a crack at the Confederation Cup when they are already beat by the Gold Medalist when the Confederation Cup is an intercontinental tournament between winners. I rather have the top two from the OFC group playing the final AFC qualifying stage for the World Cup berths and then have the Gold Medalist (as their reward of winning South Pacific Games) playoff with NZ (being seeded) for the Confederation Cup berth, so that the (same?) matches are not doubled up for two major FIFA tournaments. I don't see it being fair to the other South Pacific nations, who only have one shot for Confederation Cup and World Cup pathways at the stage they are at, when really, if they are not Gold Medalist they are not Confederation contenders but they are should actually be World Cup final OFC group contenders.
Sometimes the silver and bonze medalist are not that far away in terms of playing level to the gold medalist and having only NZ as the seeded nation (despite being a big fish in a small pond) is not all that convincing for a confederation.
If it is only playoffs for World Cup and another playoffs for the Confederation Cup with only the top two nations, it also does not excite any South Pacific nations beside the Gold Medalist in terms of football pride. It is such a long time in between confederation cup/world cup for some of these nations to get a roll on in national football pride. Missing out one time, is like waiting out 8 years or 12 years to have a decent chance. Not really regular enough for OFC. And their good players are lost over time.
I rather have the qualification for Confederation Cup being separate to the World Cup qualification pathway. For the OFC winners and the runners-up, I think we have to more convincing as a OFC that we ensured that we have presented the current best two teams from our region as any of the final AFC teams are from their respective sub-regions are. So it warrants having the Silver and Bonze Medalist in the final OFC group stage rather than just a play-off or a straight automatic for NZ or the Gold Medalist. It would not be unfair to the AFC teams in final group stage. Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Well that is my thoughts on it. Somethings doesn't really add up even if it was suppose to be cost saving. I think it does more harm than good if the matches are not done in the correct progression and that there are double ups matches and no room to grow in sync with AFC, if we are to join up with them at the final group stage. I am not convince that it should be only the OFC winner but also includes the runners-up for that WC stage and you only have a runners-up by having a group stage ourselves for the world Cup and not play-offs.
FIFA is going to have a meeting in December about qualifying pathways for the next world cup tournament to Brazil. It is likely that the oceania winner will play the 5th AFC team in playoffs again.
I would like the OFC winner and the runners-up to play in the AFC final groups with the other 10 AFC finalist making their previous two groups of five teams with byes into two groups of six teams without having byes. The two groups of five seem to work out OK except that the west asian teams totally FAILED. Since MBH is West Asian, there maybe a shake up on how they form the makeup of the final two AFC groups.
If the process takes us to the AFC final stage, I would like to see the OFC runners-up as well as the OFC winners be involved. For some time, some of the OFC teams had shocked us with a result and I personally like to see them rock some of the AFC teams as well. It sort of validate the possibility that OFC had it rough when it had to playoff with South America and that on the whole, we are not that far away from some of these other AFC teams. I don't think that some of the AFC teams would cope well with the OFC runners-up if the OFC side has a capable coach onside. Of course there is a gap between the two or three top south pacific team to the rest, but usually the top south pacific team does well (compared to the other teams) because of their coach they have at the time rather than any great skill factor.
So if the stars are aligned, I think that after the South Pacific Games where they get their gold, silver and bonze medalist. This should happen.
The gold medalists play against with NZ (being seeded) to determine the Oceania Nations Cup winner. This winner plays in the Confederation Cup. This should be the first set of matches.
But for the World Cup qualification, the Gold, Silver and Bonze Medalist to play with NZ for the two places in the final AFC group stage. These should be the second set of matches.
Have them separate. The difference is that the Gold Medalist is not necessary the runners-up for the World Cup 3rd OFC stage qualifying stage at the moment of time. What we had before was that the Gold, silver and Bonze medalist go in a group with us and that the top two play again for the berth in Confederation Cup and for a World Cup final playoff. Quite meaningless to suggest that the Silver and Bonze medalist having done a regional performance can now have a crack at the Confederation Cup when they are already beat by the Gold Medalist when the Confederation Cup is an intercontinental tournament between winners. I rather have the top two from the OFC group playing the final AFC qualifying stage for the World Cup berths and then have the Gold Medalist (as their reward of winning South Pacific Games) playoff with NZ (being seeded) for the Confederation Cup berth, so that the (same?) matches are not doubled up for two major FIFA tournaments. I don't see it being fair to the other South Pacific nations, who only have one shot for Confederation Cup and World Cup pathways at the stage they are at, when really, if they are not Gold Medalist they are not Confederation contenders but they are should actually be World Cup final OFC group contenders.
Sometimes the silver and bonze medalist are not that far away in terms of playing level to the gold medalist and having only NZ as the seeded nation (despite being a big fish in a small pond) is not all that convincing for a confederation.
If it is only playoffs for World Cup and another playoffs for the Confederation Cup with only the top two nations, it also does not excite any South Pacific nations beside the Gold Medalist in terms of football pride. It is such a long time in between confederation cup/world cup for some of these nations to get a roll on in national football pride. Missing out one time, is like waiting out 8 years or 12 years to have a decent chance. Not really regular enough for OFC. And their good players are lost over time.
I rather have the qualification for Confederation Cup being separate to the World Cup qualification pathway. For the OFC winners and the runners-up, I think we have to more convincing as a OFC that we ensured that we have presented the current best two teams from our region as any of the final AFC teams are from their respective sub-regions are. So it warrants having the Silver and Bonze Medalist in the final OFC group stage rather than just a play-off or a straight automatic for NZ or the Gold Medalist. It would not be unfair to the AFC teams in final group stage. Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Well that is my thoughts on it. Somethings doesn't really add up even if it was suppose to be cost saving. I think it does more harm than good if the matches are not done in the correct progression and that there are double ups matches and no room to grow in sync with AFC, if we are to join up with them at the final group stage. I am not convince that it should be only the OFC winner but also includes the runners-up for that WC stage and you only have a runners-up by having a group stage ourselves for the world Cup and not play-offs.
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You lost me, but assuming it is what you meant I like the idea of a South Pacific sub group playing first, the winner and runner up of which play NZ, with two from the three joining Asian Groups.
Agree that the top island nation should also get a crack, even if it is the first Asian group stage not the second (I think that would be more realistic).
Agree that the top island nation should also get a crack, even if it is the first Asian group stage not the second (I think that would be more realistic).
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Does anyone read your essays?
ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH
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Not sure whether it should be here or in the other thread section about OFC (not really one either) but it does deal with the AW next step at the next World Cup.
FIFA is going to have a meeting in December about qualifying pathways for the next world cup tournament to Brazil. It is likely that the oceania winner will play the 5th AFC team in playoffs again.
I would like the OFC winner and the runners-up to play in the AFC final groups with the other 10 AFC finalist making their previous two groups of five teams with byes into two groups of six teams without having byes. The two groups of five seem to work out OK except that the west asian teams totally FAILED. Since MBH is West Asian, there maybe a shake up on how they form the makeup of the final two AFC groups.
If the process takes us to the AFC final stage, I would like to see the OFC runners-up as well as the OFC winners be involved. For some time, some of the OFC teams had shocked us with a result and I personally like to see them rock some of the AFC teams as well. It sort of validate the possibility that OFC had it rough when it had to playoff with South America and that on the whole, we are not that far away from some of these other AFC teams. I don't think that some of the AFC teams would cope well with the OFC runners-up if the OFC side has a capable coach onside. Of course there is a gap between the two or three top south pacific team to the rest, but usually the top south pacific team does well (compared to the other teams) because of their coach they have at the time rather than any great skill factor.
So if the stars are aligned, I think that after the South Pacific Games where they get their gold, silver and bonze medalist. This should happen.
The gold medalists play against with NZ (being seeded) to determine the Oceania Nations Cup winner. This winner plays in the Confederation Cup. This should be the first set of matches.
But for the World Cup qualification, the Gold, Silver and Bonze Medalist to play with NZ for the two places in the final AFC group stage. These should be the second set of matches.
Have them separate. The difference is that the Gold Medalist is not necessary the runners-up for the World Cup 3rd OFC stage qualifying stage at the moment of time. What we had before was that the Gold, silver and Bonze medalist go in a group with us and that the top two play again for the berth in Confederation Cup and for a World Cup final playoff. Quite meaningless to suggest that the Silver and Bonze medalist having done a regional performance can now have a crack at the Confederation Cup when they are already beat by the Gold Medalist when the Confederation Cup is an intercontinental tournament between winners. I rather have the top two from the OFC group playing the final AFC qualifying stage for the World Cup berths and then have the Gold Medalist (as their reward of winning South Pacific Games) playoff with NZ (being seeded) for the Confederation Cup berth, so that the (same?) matches are not doubled up for two major FIFA tournaments. I don't see it being fair to the other South Pacific nations, who only have one shot for Confederation Cup and World Cup pathways at the stage they are at, when really, if they are not Gold Medalist they are not Confederation contenders but they are should actually be World Cup final OFC group contenders.
Sometimes the silver and bonze medalist are not that far away in terms of playing level to the gold medalist and having only NZ as the seeded nation (despite being a big fish in a small pond) is not all that convincing for a confederation.
If it is only playoffs for World Cup and another playoffs for the Confederation Cup with only the top two nations, it also does not excite any South Pacific nations beside the Gold Medalist in terms of football pride. It is such a long time in between confederation cup/world cup for some of these nations to get a roll on in national football pride. Missing out one time, is like waiting out 8 years or 12 years to have a decent chance. Not really regular enough for OFC. And their good players are lost over time.
I rather have the qualification for Confederation Cup being separate to the World Cup qualification pathway. For the OFC winners and the runners-up, I think we have to more convincing as a OFC that we ensured that we have presented the current best two teams from our region as any of the final AFC teams are from their respective sub-regions are. So it warrants having the Silver and Bonze Medalist in the final OFC group stage rather than just a play-off or a straight automatic for NZ or the Gold Medalist. It would not be unfair to the AFC teams in final group stage. Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Well that is my thoughts on it. Somethings doesn't really add up even if it was suppose to be cost saving. I think it does more harm than good if the matches are not done in the correct progression and that there are double ups matches and no room to grow in sync with AFC, if we are to join up with them at the final group stage. I am not convince that it should be only the OFC winner but also includes the runners-up for that WC stage and you only have a runners-up by having a group stage ourselves for the world Cup and not play-offs.
FIFA is going to have a meeting in December about qualifying pathways for the next world cup tournament to Brazil. It is likely that the oceania winner will play the 5th AFC team in playoffs again.
I would like the OFC winner and the runners-up to play in the AFC final groups with the other 10 AFC finalist making their previous two groups of five teams with byes into two groups of six teams without having byes. The two groups of five seem to work out OK except that the west asian teams totally FAILED. Since MBH is West Asian, there maybe a shake up on how they form the makeup of the final two AFC groups.
If the process takes us to the AFC final stage, I would like to see the OFC runners-up as well as the OFC winners be involved. For some time, some of the OFC teams had shocked us with a result and I personally like to see them rock some of the AFC teams as well. It sort of validate the possibility that OFC had it rough when it had to playoff with South America and that on the whole, we are not that far away from some of these other AFC teams. I don't think that some of the AFC teams would cope well with the OFC runners-up if the OFC side has a capable coach onside. Of course there is a gap between the two or three top south pacific team to the rest, but usually the top south pacific team does well (compared to the other teams) because of their coach they have at the time rather than any great skill factor.
So if the stars are aligned, I think that after the South Pacific Games where they get their gold, silver and bonze medalist. This should happen.
The gold medalists play against with NZ (being seeded) to determine the Oceania Nations Cup winner. This winner plays in the Confederation Cup. This should be the first set of matches.
But for the World Cup qualification, the Gold, Silver and Bonze Medalist to play with NZ for the two places in the final AFC group stage. These should be the second set of matches.
Have them separate. The difference is that the Gold Medalist is not necessary the runners-up for the World Cup 3rd OFC stage qualifying stage at the moment of time. What we had before was that the Gold, silver and Bonze medalist go in a group with us and that the top two play again for the berth in Confederation Cup and for a World Cup final playoff. Quite meaningless to suggest that the Silver and Bonze medalist having done a regional performance can now have a crack at the Confederation Cup when they are already beat by the Gold Medalist when the Confederation Cup is an intercontinental tournament between winners. I rather have the top two from the OFC group playing the final AFC qualifying stage for the World Cup berths and then have the Gold Medalist (as their reward of winning South Pacific Games) playoff with NZ (being seeded) for the Confederation Cup berth, so that the (same?) matches are not doubled up for two major FIFA tournaments. I don't see it being fair to the other South Pacific nations, who only have one shot for Confederation Cup and World Cup pathways at the stage they are at, when really, if they are not Gold Medalist they are not Confederation contenders but they are should actually be World Cup final OFC group contenders.
Sometimes the silver and bonze medalist are not that far away in terms of playing level to the gold medalist and having only NZ as the seeded nation (despite being a big fish in a small pond) is not all that convincing for a confederation.
If it is only playoffs for World Cup and another playoffs for the Confederation Cup with only the top two nations, it also does not excite any South Pacific nations beside the Gold Medalist in terms of football pride. It is such a long time in between confederation cup/world cup for some of these nations to get a roll on in national football pride. Missing out one time, is like waiting out 8 years or 12 years to have a decent chance. Not really regular enough for OFC. And their good players are lost over time.
I rather have the qualification for Confederation Cup being separate to the World Cup qualification pathway. For the OFC winners and the runners-up, I think we have to more convincing as a OFC that we ensured that we have presented the current best two teams from our region as any of the final AFC teams are from their respective sub-regions are. So it warrants having the Silver and Bonze Medalist in the final OFC group stage rather than just a play-off or a straight automatic for NZ or the Gold Medalist. It would not be unfair to the AFC teams in final group stage. Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Well that is my thoughts on it. Somethings doesn't really add up even if it was suppose to be cost saving. I think it does more harm than good if the matches are not done in the correct progression and that there are double ups matches and no room to grow in sync with AFC, if we are to join up with them at the final group stage. I am not convince that it should be only the OFC winner but also includes the runners-up for that WC stage and you only have a runners-up by having a group stage ourselves for the world Cup and not play-offs.
good post
well worth the effort of reading it
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Good post overall but disagree with above. You'd be hounded over here if you said that.
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Thanks DS. Speaking on behalf of Australia as per usual.
AWB,one word: Summarise
Allegedly
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I want it to stay the same. Why make things harder for us to qualify?
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I like the idea of the top Oceania qualifying through Asia. I don't see why New Zealand cannot be the fifth best team in Asia, surely we are not far off as it is, if we aren't there already.
Have it so age grade still qualify for comps through Oceania and the All Whites for Confeds (as top of Oceania Confederation), but just have top Oceania's winner play second round Asia for World Cups qualifying.
Have it so age grade still qualify for comps through Oceania and the All Whites for Confeds (as top of Oceania Confederation), but just have top Oceania's winner play second round Asia for World Cups qualifying.
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I want it to stay the same. Why make things harder for us to qualify?
Because to get better we need to have regular tougher opposition. Also, as fans, we want to see more games and better games at home.
If the price we pay for that is to not qualify for the WC every time in the short term then so be it. In the long run it will mean we get better and hopefully will result in us qualifying for the finals on a more regular basis.
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I was thinking about ways to merge the two confederations - one of the biggest arguments against this is saying that the pacific island teams would just have no chance, but what's to say they can't form their own competition along with the likes of Phillippines and Singapore?
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the pacific islands will stand a chance, Asia has less skilled teams as well
in fact the lowest teams in Asia are ranked the same or similar as the lowest in Oceania there is room in every tear. its just whether its financially viable
buy i do believe (don't quote me on this) that the lower teams play kinda tournament format in short time frames to minimize the cost. so could work
in fact the lowest teams in Asia are ranked the same or similar as the lowest in Oceania there is room in every tear. its just whether its financially viable
buy i do believe (don't quote me on this) that the lower teams play kinda tournament format in short time frames to minimize the cost. so could work
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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Plus there is no room for fair competition in the OFC. If not, then Australia might as well switch back to OFC and we are all back to square one with Australia and NZ having domination in OFC and getting the final AFC stages places.
Good post overall but disagree with above. You'd be hounded over here if you said that.
No one cares what you think.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Is everyone who want's us to go through Asia prepared to accept we might not get through to another World Cup for another 28 years?
I know the reasons for it, that we will increase our quality, bigger stage etc, but we might have increased quality but still not be able to qualify?
Then NZ football will lose the fair weather fans that joined the wagon during the 2010 campaign?
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Is everyone who want's us to go through Asia prepared to accept we might not get through to another World Cup for another 28 years?
�
I know the reasons for it, that we will increase our quality, bigger stage etc, but we might have�increased quality but still not be able to qualify?
�
Then NZ football will lose the fair weather fans that joined the wagon during the 2010 campaign?
Yes - regular (less so than if we were eligible for Asian Cup) meaningful home internationals, and in all honesty, what I believe to be an easier path that a one off home and away series.
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Not convinced. We're more likely to be full strength for a Home and Away series than we would be fighting for releases for players to field a full strength team in a long Asian campaign.
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Yeah the issue is the All Whites need more games at home to try and keep the gain in popularity since the World Cup.
On the flipside, we can't afford flying people over from the UK all the time.
I would like to see us play through Asia, if only for the more regular games, and also fix up the whole Phoenix license/Youth team issue.
But not sure it will happen.
On the flipside, we can't afford flying people over from the UK all the time.
I would like to see us play through Asia, if only for the more regular games, and also fix up the whole Phoenix license/Youth team issue.
But not sure it will happen.
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Well my feeling is that the All Whites/Football Ferns would be happy to enter the Final AFC group stage only for the World Cup Men's or Women's Tournament. Allow the national youth teams enter as per normal from OFC stage to the youth world cups.
At this stage of our country's development, it would be the only cost we can do as well as the indication of our playing abilities of the teams on the world stage. The youth teams changes every year as they get older because of youth development and can only afford to go to OFC tournaments and the most of the youths are still in the country (usually Auckland-based) and not overseas. (although that may change in the future)
But the senior teams both need tougher opponents in a purposeful matches prior to performing better in the World Cup but can't commit players for some long winded Asian Cup campaign from all over the world from various clubs. This is another reason we may need to stay in OFC for the meanwhile. Until A-league has more NZ players and/or more overseas players to increase our depth, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Since for the world cup qualifying tournaments, clubs all are able to release the players, but for AFC tournaments it won't be easy to do so. Maybe in the future, if we have tons of players in the AFC countries/ in A-League earning their trade, then it would be time to join AFC as well as having the players released for their tournaments.
At this stage of our country's development, it would be the only cost we can do as well as the indication of our playing abilities of the teams on the world stage. The youth teams changes every year as they get older because of youth development and can only afford to go to OFC tournaments and the most of the youths are still in the country (usually Auckland-based) and not overseas. (although that may change in the future)
But the senior teams both need tougher opponents in a purposeful matches prior to performing better in the World Cup but can't commit players for some long winded Asian Cup campaign from all over the world from various clubs. This is another reason we may need to stay in OFC for the meanwhile. Until A-league has more NZ players and/or more overseas players to increase our depth, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Since for the world cup qualifying tournaments, clubs all are able to release the players, but for AFC tournaments it won't be easy to do so. Maybe in the future, if we have tons of players in the AFC countries/ in A-League earning their trade, then it would be time to join AFC as well as having the players released for their tournaments.
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one thing to consider, is that if things stay exactly as they are, we will always have at least three matches against competitive opposition a few months before our home and away playoff - i'm talking about the confederations cup.
perhaps the unfairness of having to step up from Fiji and Vanuatu to face the likes of Bahrain, Iran, Saudi, Uruguay, Costa Rica is balanced by what might be seen as the unfairness of us having a pretty much guaranteed spot of every confederations cup - and since it has been used as a dress rehearsal for the world cup, it looks asthough the confeds cup will stay around
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Oh yeah, guaranteed spot at the Confederations Cup. Just like our guaranteed spot at the Club World Cup!
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well i did say "pretty much guaranteed"
prior to AWB's post, i was also pondering whether an OFC nations cup, held as a tournament in one of the Island nations separate to home and away qualification for the WC (which should be left well alone, always thought it was BS when our WC qualification was done as a tournament), but then i thought we'd probably take that less seriously than WC qualification, but to fail to qualify for the Confeds cup would be a bit of a disaster i think.
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I wonder what the opinion will be this time next year when our players
supporters and coaches etc will be sitting on their arse twiddling
their thumbs when we could be playing in the asian cup; no no lets just
assume our 2 competitive games every 4 years is enough to have a strong
national team and keep interest in the game here.
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Rather that than go broke. We dont have a Lowy to continually bankroll the move...Our youth sides get plenty of competitve games,and attention. Lets give that a couple of years first aye? Id rather have pathways for players,and for NZF to have $$$,rather than interest from casual fans.
But yes,it is an interesting question.
Tegal2010-07-03 15:25:25Allegedly
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I wonder what the opinion will be this time next year when our players
supporters and coaches etc will be sitting on their arse twiddling
their thumbs when we could be playing in the asian cup; no no lets just
assume our 2 competitive games every 4 years is enough to have a strong
national team and keep interest in the game here.
This. We would not necessarily be broke, we would have higher costs but higher income. All anyone can do is speculate on what the financial implications would be.
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This discussion has been in this forum several times and gone round and round and round ....
The problem with all the passionate contributions in this forum is that you are thinking in terms of New Zealand - everybody else is thinking in of themselves.
1. OFC will not let NZ leave - they will think of themsleves and there are too many individuals that will lose power/money if NZ leaves OFC so they will not let it happen.
2. AFC will not invite NZ to join - why would they? To them they already have one "non-Asian" nation that has joined and taken one of their World Cup qualifying places - why would they invite another to join AFC?
3. We do not have the money/influence to force our way into AFC like Australia did.
4. We would not be able to afford to participate in AFC World Cup qualifying competitions so our age-group/women's teams would be in a wilderness.
5. Accepting that we could not jon AFC, they will not invite us to take part in their final World Cup qualifying competition. Why would they? In their terms, what is the benefit? I pursued this in 2006. I suggested that they move to 2 groups of 6 taking out the bye, and allowing 11 Asian nations to participate. They said that they didn't like the extra travel. That is a fair answer, but I felt that they didn't want to make it easier for us. Think in their terms - if you were them, why would you do it? Is there a precedent for a Confederation allowing another Confederation to participate in THEIR World Cup qualifying competition?
The answer is simple. Get on with what we have got and make it work. We now have enough credibility to make our international programme work at NO cost to NZF. NZF took a fee oif $100K (plus all costs) for the game v Mexico in front of 95,000 people in Los Angeles - the promoter could not believe NZF accepted his first offer! He would have paid 2-3x more! Let's not confuse the narrow goal of non-friendlies against meaningful competition with what is best for our overall game and waht is actually achievable.
The problem with all the passionate contributions in this forum is that you are thinking in terms of New Zealand - everybody else is thinking in of themselves.
1. OFC will not let NZ leave - they will think of themsleves and there are too many individuals that will lose power/money if NZ leaves OFC so they will not let it happen.
2. AFC will not invite NZ to join - why would they? To them they already have one "non-Asian" nation that has joined and taken one of their World Cup qualifying places - why would they invite another to join AFC?
3. We do not have the money/influence to force our way into AFC like Australia did.
4. We would not be able to afford to participate in AFC World Cup qualifying competitions so our age-group/women's teams would be in a wilderness.
5. Accepting that we could not jon AFC, they will not invite us to take part in their final World Cup qualifying competition. Why would they? In their terms, what is the benefit? I pursued this in 2006. I suggested that they move to 2 groups of 6 taking out the bye, and allowing 11 Asian nations to participate. They said that they didn't like the extra travel. That is a fair answer, but I felt that they didn't want to make it easier for us. Think in their terms - if you were them, why would you do it? Is there a precedent for a Confederation allowing another Confederation to participate in THEIR World Cup qualifying competition?
The answer is simple. Get on with what we have got and make it work. We now have enough credibility to make our international programme work at NO cost to NZF. NZF took a fee oif $100K (plus all costs) for the game v Mexico in front of 95,000 people in Los Angeles - the promoter could not believe NZF accepted his first offer! He would have paid 2-3x more! Let's not confuse the narrow goal of non-friendlies against meaningful competition with what is best for our overall game and waht is actually achievable.
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Thank you Mr Seattor for your eliquent reply.
Yes you are dead right. NZ is a very small fish in a very big pond. We have almost no influence in these matters. Unless FIFA step in and redraw theConfederation boundaries and/or change the qualification route then we are stuck with what we have got.
We are NOT going to be in Asia so we should just look after the things we can control. The first of which is the develpoment of football in NZ. More money for coaching at junior level and better preparation for our age group teams.
Secondly we need to ensure there is an obvious pathway for talent to rise up through the system and play at the highest level possible.
Third. The shop window. The Phoenix and the All whites are at the front of visibility for our sport. They get the media attention and the viewers at on TV and bums on seats at the stadiums. The Phoenix are doing well buts its the All Whites that need to be sorted. If they disappear off the radar until the next WC qualifiers then a huge opportunity will be lost.
Its important to realise that the AW,s are a potential source of revenue now. I'll bet if you played an August international at the ROF against even a modest Asian side like Indonesia or China you would get a plus 20,000 crowd. If you got a "name" team you would fill the stadium. You are talking about a million dollar plus gate. This revenue stream has never been there before. If you throw in mechandising/sponsorship and TV rights then the potential is huge.
Handled right we could be on the cusp of great things for the sport in this country. A future could include qualifying for the WC in 2014. Perhaps another A-League franchise(Christchurch my pick). Some real young talent coming through and playing in good leagues all over the world. Also Financial viability....these are indead exciting times for NZ football
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What I want to know is where does the Phoenix currently stand in terms of qualifying for the Asian Champion's League if we finish first or second in the A-league?
Because towards the end of the last season there were murmurs that they might try to veto us as NZ is not part of their confederation.
Because towards the end of the last season there were murmurs that they might try to veto us as NZ is not part of their confederation.
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The rules have alwaays been no we can't. There were rumours that it might have been changed (on the AFC website) but nothing definite (it was removed) so we assume we can't.
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ok thanks. I hope we can appeal this in the future if we do get in.
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You are talking about a million dollar plus gate. This revenue stream has never been there before. If you throw in mechandising/sponsorship and TV rights then the potential is huge.
Yeah, and make some bloody shirts to buy! Gosh!
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Might help them make up the thousands they lost on Merchandise in the last month.
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We should be submitting our application to play in the Copa America 2013 to Conmebol asap
If Canada can get an invite (which they previously turned down for security reasons) we should at least write to Conmebol and let them know "if you're REALLY desperate ..."
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There is no Copa America in 2013.
Three for me, and two for them.
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oh, i thought played every 2 years???
Marius Lacatus2010-07-05 12:38:44
in that case, we'll have to target 2015 as Japan and Mexico have the outsider slots for 2011
Added: looks like Copa America just played whenever it suits. some times a two year break, some times three, or even four
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Nah. Only the Gold Cup and African Nations' Cup are every two years.
NZ in the Copa America would be something...well... it would be something.
NZ in the Copa America would be something...well... it would be something.
Three for me, and two for them.
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This discussion has been in this forum several times and gone round and round and round ....
The problem with all the passionate contributions in this forum is that you are thinking in terms of New Zealand - everybody else is thinking in of themselves.
1. OFC will not let NZ leave - they will think of themsleves and there are too many individuals that will lose power/money if NZ leaves OFC so they will not let it happen.
2. AFC will not invite NZ to join - why would they? To them they already have one "non-Asian" nation that has joined and taken one of their World Cup qualifying places - why would they invite another to join AFC?
3. We do not have the money/influence to force our way into AFC like Australia did.
4. We would not be able to afford to participate in AFC World Cup qualifying competitions so our age-group/women's teams would be in a wilderness.
5. Accepting that we could not jon AFC, they will not invite us to take part in their final World Cup qualifying competition. Why would they? In their terms, what is the benefit? I pursued this in 2006. I suggested that they move to 2 groups of 6 taking out the bye, and allowing 11 Asian nations to participate. They said that they didn't like the extra travel. That is a fair answer, but I felt that they didn't want to make it easier for us. Think in their terms - if you were them, why would you do it? Is there a precedent for a Confederation allowing another Confederation to participate in THEIR World Cup qualifying competition?
The answer is simple. Get on with what we have got and make it work. We now have enough credibility to make our international programme work at NO cost to NZF. NZF took a fee oif $100K (plus all costs) for the game v Mexico in front of 95,000 people in Los Angeles - the promoter could not believe NZF accepted his first offer! He would have paid 2-3x more! Let's not confuse the narrow goal of non-friendlies against meaningful competition with what is best for our overall game and waht is actually achievable.
The problem with all the passionate contributions in this forum is that you are thinking in terms of New Zealand - everybody else is thinking in of themselves.
1. OFC will not let NZ leave - they will think of themsleves and there are too many individuals that will lose power/money if NZ leaves OFC so they will not let it happen.
2. AFC will not invite NZ to join - why would they? To them they already have one "non-Asian" nation that has joined and taken one of their World Cup qualifying places - why would they invite another to join AFC?
3. We do not have the money/influence to force our way into AFC like Australia did.
4. We would not be able to afford to participate in AFC World Cup qualifying competitions so our age-group/women's teams would be in a wilderness.
5. Accepting that we could not jon AFC, they will not invite us to take part in their final World Cup qualifying competition. Why would they? In their terms, what is the benefit? I pursued this in 2006. I suggested that they move to 2 groups of 6 taking out the bye, and allowing 11 Asian nations to participate. They said that they didn't like the extra travel. That is a fair answer, but I felt that they didn't want to make it easier for us. Think in their terms - if you were them, why would you do it? Is there a precedent for a Confederation allowing another Confederation to participate in THEIR World Cup qualifying competition?
The answer is simple. Get on with what we have got and make it work. We now have enough credibility to make our international programme work at NO cost to NZF. NZF took a fee oif $100K (plus all costs) for the game v Mexico in front of 95,000 people in Los Angeles - the promoter could not believe NZF accepted his first offer! He would have paid 2-3x more! Let's not confuse the narrow goal of non-friendlies against meaningful competition with what is best for our overall game and waht is actually achievable.
Would this attitude have changed since the Bahrain playoff though? Back then did they assume it would be quite straightforward for the 5th Asian side to win the playoff, however would they now realise that a group stage would make it more likely we would be knocked out?
Very much appreciate you coming here and posting your detailed explanation. One thing that sticks out as missing is any mention of government involvement. No idea how the funding works but AusTrade run promotions around Socceroos fixtures in Asia do they not? I am one who strongly supports involvement in Asia in our regular "round and round" conversations in here however I recognise it would be very difficult if done in football only terms. I believe that the problem with the pro-Oceania contributions are that they are in terms of only football.
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With all respect to Graham Seatter, just because it didn't happen on your watch doesn't mean it can't happen.
The 5th point in particular has got to be worth pursuing. Asia will go with whatever they think best serves Asia, and maybe now that means not going into what is effectively a coin toss with NZ for a place at the World Cup. It might not happen for 2014 but if we win through in the same fashion next time you can bet they will at least be thinking about a change.
terminator_x2010-07-05 20:05:19
The 5th point in particular has got to be worth pursuing. Asia will go with whatever they think best serves Asia, and maybe now that means not going into what is effectively a coin toss with NZ for a place at the World Cup. It might not happen for 2014 but if we win through in the same fashion next time you can bet they will at least be thinking about a change.
terminator_x2010-07-05 20:05:19
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Interestingly, it wasn't that long ago that Oceania (with the strength of Australia) was pushing for (and were apparently getting close to) an automatic spot at the World Cup.
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That will never happen Colv.
More chance of us being the only unbeaten team at this world cup.
oh...wait....
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