I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
How about the 11 OFC countries just join the joint AFC world cup/asian cup qualification late next year?.
Why on earth would you want to give the finals to Qatar? Are you on a kick-back deal with FIFA or you just think Qatar might be short a few bob and could use the money? Or perhaps it’s nice reward for their great work in the rights arena? Let some less corrupt country have a payday occasionally FFS. And give the extra home game in group C to the lowest ranked nation, they could probably use the extra gate takings.
I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
Nice work. Are the Division splits based on current FIFA rankings?
If so surprised NZ is lower than likes of Palestine?? I would go for every 4 years, at the start of a new WC cycle (eg 2023-2024).
If you have a East Asía/OFC split from West Asia, you can’t run AFC WC qualifying concurrently (which isn’t split East & West). Other Confeds like UEFA don’t have that problem so can dovetail Nations League games into Euro or WC qualifying.
But yes awesome if something like this could happen with regular H&A games for the AWs.
Also should be great for the other OFC teams, playing different teams at their level, plus some genuine interest/excitement about trying to get promoted up through the divisions. Qualifying, even for a 48 team WC, will always be tough for the OFC teams. Winning a Division C of some sort of Nations League though, definitely achieveable
Why on earth would you want to give the finals to Qatar? Are you on a kick-back deal with FIFA or you just think Qatar might be short a few bob and could use the money? Or perhaps it’s nice reward for their great work in the rights arena? Let some less corrupt country have a payday occasionally FFS. And give the extra home game in group C to the lowest ranked nation, they could probably use the extra gate takings.
The guy spends a nice chunk of his time drafting up a great concept, and that’s your takeaway.
Where you have groups of different sizes, you need the bigger number to be even so that the number of rounds are the same. Groups of 3 and 4 both take 3 rounds to play, groups of 5 and 6 both take 5 rounds to play. If you mix groups of 4 and 5 then you either have 3 rounds or 5, and have to do as you have done and have 2 complete rounds vs 1 rounds.
I would suggest instead if going down your plan. following a lot more closely the Euro structure with groups of 4 and then 3 if required.
That is 3 Leagues (A,B,C) each comprising 4 groups of 4, this is your top 48 teams, which would leave League D having 9 teams so 3 groups of 3. Same finals and promotion/relegation as in Europe. Only difference being perhaps some east/west regionalisation for leagues B, C and D, and slightly different playout structure in League C to determine which 3 group losers are relegated. Also because of longer travel, you might structure the fixtures differently so that teams have 2 away games in a row rather than being home/away in each window.
I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
How about the 11 OFC countries just join the joint AFC world cup/asian cup qualification late next year?.
Nah AFC don’t want us. Most of the Middle Eastern bloc want Aussie out
And we don’t want to leave OFC with its current much easier WC qualifying pathway for the Ferns and age group teams. Plus from the 2026 WC, the same pathway for AWs, with the huge FIFA $16M (or whatever it will be then) qualification payday reward
Involvement in some type of Nations League concept, with regular H&A games against Aus, Sth Korea, Japan, China etc, shapes as a best case outcome
No If the ofc were to dissapear then AFC should take the extra spot from ofc for all the age group and senior world cups, so 2026 afc wcq could have 9 direct spots instead of 8, and the football ferns and age group teams will have really earned their world cup spots by playing in those AFC tournaments
I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
How about the 11 OFC countries just join the joint AFC world cup/asian cup qualification late next year?.
Nah AFC don’t want us. Most of the Middle Eastern bloc want Aussie out
And we don’t want to leave OFC with its current much easier WC qualifying pathway for the Ferns and age group teams. Plus from the 2026 WC, the same pathway for AWs, with the huge FIFA $16M (or whatever it will be then) qualification payday reward
Involvement in some type of Nations League concept, with regular H&A games against Aus, Sth Korea, Japan, China etc, shapes as a best case outcome
No If the ofc were to dissapear then AFC should take the extra spot from ofc for all the age group and senior world cups, so 2026 afc wcq could have 9 direct spots instead of 8, and the football ferns and age group teams will have really earned their world cup spots by playing in those AFC tournaments
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
It would need to come from FIFA level. To make it happen.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
It would need to come from FIFA level. To make it happen.
Can FIFA even do that? Make two Confederations undertake a joint tournament?? I know they govern the game globally but can they get involved at Confederation level to that degree?
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
It would need to come from FIFA level. To make it happen.
Can FIFA even do that? Make two Confederations undertake a joint tournament?? I know they govern the game globally but can they get involved at Confederation level to that degree?
Yes you are probably correct. Its an AFC thing so FIFA can't get involved. Not much chance of it happening though with-out some other influence. OFC will just remain a basket case. Surely that is a bit of a concern for FIFA as well.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
It would need to come from FIFA level. To make it happen.
Can FIFA even do that? Make two Confederations undertake a joint tournament?? I know they govern the game globally but can they get involved at Confederation level to that degree?
KM you raise good points, but there is some major happenings in World football of recent times, that give the idea a glimmer of hope.
Pre Covid Infantino was pushing 2 major changes. 1. An expanded Club World Cup (32 teams?) played 4 yearly, and 2. Nations League setups in all Confeds, funnelling into a Global Nations League finals series I think involving only 8 teams (basically replacing the Confederations Cup).
Behind these 2 concepts apparently was some truly eye watering cash out of Saudi Arabia (these financial backers all mysterious).
Part of Infantino's selling point was that the world's football minnows (incl AWs) didn't play often enough, and that Nations Leagues setups would help this. Certainly now in CONCACAF for example the minnows are playing more often.
Then Covid hit and all went quiet on both ideas. Then last year surfaced FIFA's new idea of a biennial WC. Again you imagine the extra cash biennial World Cups would make is a huge FIFA driver. But lots of minnow countries voiced their support of this idea, as did our own Ryan Nelsen.
But UEFA & seemingly CONEMBOL hate the idea. Would screw up their Calendar of either a Euros/Copa America or World Cup every 2nd year. They have gone as far as setting up a joint office in London, as a threat to FIFA. Basically fudge off FIFA.
So could a Global Nations League finals series, only taking 2-3 weeks played in years prior World Cups (like old Confeds Cup), so not disrupting Euros/Copa America be a 'happy middle ground' solution?? Is that huge Saudi cash still around?
AFC is now the only big Confed now without a NL, with CONEMBOL teams to join the UEFA version. I think CAF's Africa Cup of Nations, is doubling as a Nations League??
So if that Saudi cash is still around a big big financial incentive for AFC via FIFA, could see them, include OFC in a combined Nations League (split maybe East & West), with both Confederations staying separate for WC qualifying etc
Who knows how this will play out with FIFA and UEFA. But it's likely decisions by the bigwigs at that level, all influenced by the mighty dollar, that will dictate what happens in tinpot OFC.
Wide speculation, but maybe this is why Pragnell is making promises about future AWs program, including games at home. Because he knows a Nations League is close to being a real thing! Wild optimistic speculation.
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
But nothing remotely close to the cash qualifying World Cup nations receive. That's $NZ16,500,000.00 for Qatar.
AWs could easily be bundled out of first stage AFC World Cup qualifying (ie fail to make the top 2-3 teams in their pool 1st stage), and doubt the TV rights cash would be big for say a pool of Laos, Bahrain, Oman, Kyrgyzstan & Jordan for example. As above the AWs are only FIFA ranked about 19th on a combined AFC & OFC list. Asia would not be easy at all.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
Sums it up nicely. Why would AFC want to do this. OFC brings nothing to the table in terms of money, TV or markets.
We have to seriously stop with all this talk of 'lets just join AFC' AFC do not want us, nor our confederation, and would like Australia out.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
Sums it up nicely. Why would AFC want to do this. OFC brings nothing to the table in terms of money, TV or markets.
We have to seriously stop with all this talk of 'lets just join AFC' AFC do not want us, nor our confederation, and would like Australia out.
The sooner the people understand that, the better
Only large dollops of FIFA cash & pressure could make it possible.
But is a big difference in AFC & OFC joining forces for a Nations League comp, played over a 4 to 5 FIFA windows - verus NZ trying to join AFC permanently.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
Sums it up nicely. Why would AFC want to do this. OFC brings nothing to the table in terms of money, TV or markets.
We have to seriously stop with all this talk of 'lets just join AFC' AFC do not want us, nor our confederation, and would like Australia out.
The sooner the people understand that, the better
Only large dollops of FIFA cash & pressure could make it possible.
But is a big difference in AFC & OFC joining forces for a Nations League comp, played over a 4 to 5 FIFA windows - verus NZ trying to join AFC permanently.
Big difference.
Also worth considering that FIFA Presidents win elections through the minnows not the big teams, so it's in Infantino's interest to push through ideas that benefit the many small countries. It's no surprise that Samoa's main football ground is named after Sepp Blatter.
The big Asian/Middle Eastern countries have no desire to play OFC, but the weaker SEA teams probably would have some interest. The best OFC teams would also be more than competitive; PNG played Malaysia twice in 2016 (winning 2-0 at home and losing 1-2 away), and the Solomons beat Macau 4-1 in 2018, Chinese Taipei away 1-0 in 2019 (same margin as NZ beat them the year before) and only just went down 3-4 away to Singapore in 2019.
The weaker, eastern AFC teams are basically all locally based, so the travel wouldn't be much worse than to the Middle East, and due to tourism basically all the islands have decent flight connections.
Why on earth would you want to give the finals to Qatar? Are you on a kick-back deal with FIFA or you just think Qatar might be short a few bob and could use the money? Or perhaps it’s nice reward for their great work in the rights arena? Let some less corrupt country have a payday occasionally FFS. And give the extra home game in group C to the lowest ranked nation, they could probably use the extra gate takings.
The guy spends a nice chunk of his time drafting up a great concept, and that’s your takeaway.
Pretty much. Didn’t knock his concept at all, which is a decent basis for discussion and somewhere towards workable. Just don’t see the big love affair with giving the hosting benefits to Qatar all the time. So yeah, absolutely, take that bit away. And I don’t think giving an extra home game to the lowest ranked team is a bad thing. The few extra dollars they get might get spent on development. Thought that’s what it was all about.
This is an awesome idea, and your concept shapes up really well. I don't want to detract from your hard work, but one thing is an issue - why would AFC want to do this? What do they gain from including a bunch of low-ranked OFC countries in a Nations League competition? Are the heavy hitters like Saudi, Japan and South Korea going to want to travel all the way to Auckland, let alone Honiara, Lautoka or Port Moresby? Do any of the OFC countries bring awesome huge new markets that make it commercially appealing? Even with idea of divisions, aren't those smaller/less successful countries going to be incurring huge extra costs?
Would be an awesome idea for OFC, but really only seems to benefit the OFC countries - and we hold none of the power levers in it. Would love to see it happen, but fear it'll be just another thing on the wishlist (like the whole 'move to AFC' thing which is rearing its head again).
Sums it up nicely. Why would AFC want to do this. OFC brings nothing to the table in terms of money, TV or markets.
We have to seriously stop with all this talk of 'lets just join AFC' AFC do not want us, nor our confederation, and would like Australia out.
The sooner the people understand that, the better
Only large dollops of FIFA cash & pressure could make it possible.
But is a big difference in AFC & OFC joining forces for a Nations League comp, played over a 4 to 5 FIFA windows - verus NZ trying to join AFC permanently.
Big difference.
Also worth considering that FIFA Presidents win elections through the minnows not the big teams, so it's in Infantino's interest to push through ideas that benefit the many small countries. It's no surprise that Samoa's main football ground is named after Sepp Blatter.
The big Asian/Middle Eastern countries have no desire to play OFC, but the weaker SEA teams probably would have some interest. The best OFC teams would also be more than competitive; PNG played Malaysia twice in 2016 (winning 2-0 at home and losing 1-2 away), and the Solomons beat Macau 4-1 in 2018, Chinese Taipei away 1-0 in 2019 (same margin as NZ beat them the year before) and only just went down 3-4 away to Singapore in 2019.
The weaker, eastern AFC teams are basically all locally based, so the travel wouldn't be much worse than to the Middle East, and due to tourism basically all the islands have decent flight connections.
yep, basis of the random idea I floated about inviting some of the far eastern AFC teams into OFC - not a solve all, or even necessarily a good idea, but just thinking outside the "please let us play in the AFC sandpit" box...
That much, it is fair to say, has been achieved to some extent, but rather than reign in the (UEFA) Nations League's current demands on players, there remain plans afoot to 'expand the franchise'.
Though a mooted Global Nations League - including all 223 members of FIFA's six continental confederations and taking place every two years - never quite got off the ground, change is surely coming.
In the framework for that competition, group winners would have advanced to eight-team intercontinental tournaments in each of seven divisions, to be played every other summer and broadcast around the clock - that may yet be revived in the more distant future.
However, UEFA have already agreed a deal with CONMEBOL to accept 10 more participants from 2024 onwards, with South American countries joining the competition: controversially, all games would be played in Europe.
The top six CONMEBOL nations according to the World Cup qualifying table are set to join League A, while the other four slots into the second-tier League B. Leagues C and D would remain unchanged.
Progress is assured, then, but with a 24-team Club World Cup also in the offing, it may be a case of moving on to bigger but not necessarily better things.
I've been playing around on the editor on FM22 and created an AFC/OFC Nations League competition, similar to the UEFA Nations League competition, only with more of a regional divide (and one less divisional layer).
The 46 Asian (AFC) and 11 Oceania (OFC) FIFA members would compete together in a three-division AFC/OFC competition run every two years, with relegation and promotion between the divisions, and a four-team finals tournament to decide the overall winner.
AFC.JPG74.76 KB Division One (16 Teams) The top 16 ranked AFC/OFC nations will compete in Division One, drawn into four groups of four teams. Each team plays the other three teams in their group home and away (total 6 fixtures). The top team in each of the four groups progresses to the end of season tournament (played in Qatar) to determine an overall champion. The bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Two for the following campaign. Teams- Iran, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iraq, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Kyrgyzstan.
Division Two (20 Teams) The next best 20 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in Division Two, drawn into four groups of five teams, split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. Each team plays the other four teams in their group once (total 4 fixtures), each playing two home games and two away games. The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division One, and the bottom team in each of the four groups is relegated to Division Three. Teams- (West) Lebanon, India, Kuwait, Yemen, Thailand, PR Korea, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Maldives (East) Vietnam, New Zealand, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taipei, Myanmar, Singapore.
Division Three (21 Teams) The next best 21 teams from AFC and OFC will compete in the third and final division, drawn into three groups of five teams, and one group of six teams, again split geographically into two groups from the West and two groups from the East. As in Division Two, each team plays the other teams in their group once, playing two games at home, and two games away (apart from the one group containing six teams where a draw is made to determine who plays the extra home fixture). The top team in each of the four groups is promoted to Division Two. Teams- (West) Cambodia, Nepal, Macao, Laos, Mongolia, Bhutan, Brunei, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (East) New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti, Fiji, Vanuatu, American Samoa, Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, Guam, Timor Leste.
How about the 11 OFC countries just join the joint AFC world cup/asian cup qualification late next year?.
Nah AFC don’t want us. Most of the Middle Eastern bloc want Aussie out
And we don’t want to leave OFC with its current much easier WC qualifying pathway for the Ferns and age group teams. Plus from the 2026 WC, the same pathway for AWs, with the huge FIFA $16M (or whatever it will be then) qualification payday reward
Involvement in some type of Nations League concept, with regular H&A games against Aus, Sth Korea, Japan, China etc, shapes as a best case outcome
Getting an extra 1.5 qualifying spots might make them happy. The other thing is that will also up the competitiveness of OFC games as even if they lose to us a good result may see them qualify on goal difference etc.
How can we grow a football culture and show young kiwis some incredible role models if we never play at home?!morgenstern12
coochiee
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
How can we grow a football culture and show young kiwis some incredible role models if we never play at home?!morgenstern12
coochiee
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
Winning games against decent teams would be a start, wherever in the world we play them. Australia undertook a programme of playing "home" games in London in the mid-2000s - got better opponents, decent results, more invites to play in Europe etc etc. It wasn't the same as playing in Aus, but built news and profile and momentum. We could do worse than start with a tactic like that...
How can we grow a football culture and show young kiwis some incredible role models if we never play at home?!morgenstern12
coochiee
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
Winning games against decent teams would be a start, wherever in the world we play them. Australia undertook a programme of playing "home" games in London in the mid-200s - got better opponents, decent results, more invites to play in Europe etc etc. It wasn't the same as playing in Aus, but built news and profile and momentum. We could do worse than start with a tactic like that...
Does that not circle back to the same issue that beating 'decent teams' is a lot harder than a lot seem to expect. The last four games (excluding Oman, because no one saw it) have shown that the AWs are not at that level to win those games. The level of team we can beat comprise of countries that the average football-agnostic punter would not consider impressive, so there's no real ground to be gained. Was anyone outside the diehards impressed by beating Curacao, Bahrain and Gambia? Would they care more if we managed an unlikely upset win against Albania or Montenegro? That's probably another unwanted side effect of being rugby-dominant, people expect to be at the pinnacle when that isn't possible with football.
Australia in the mid-2000s also had a very good side, a few steps ahead of their current side, which, as we saw, is a few steps ahead of our current side.
How can we grow a football culture and show young kiwis some incredible role models if we never play at home?!morgenstern12
coochiee
Having to participate in far flung AFC tourneys would drain NZF’s coffers. It’s a big financial cost to Football Australia. WWC qualifying in AFC like the mens, may even be a expensive full H&A program with different Groups??
Though yes some new Asian-NZ sponsors may appear. I remember NZ Basketball signed a nice new sponsor, when they joined Asia for Asian Cup/FIBA World Cup qualifying
But huge negative would be making WC qualifying for AWs sooo much harder, and putting that potential $16M payday at much bigger risk. Makes zero financial sense for NZF to do that.
With that WC cash NZF can fund serious programs for all its international teams, and likely pump some extra into domestic football. Without it NZF would have to operate a pared back program, including AWs
I think the football federations receive a lot of money from tv rights when participating in the senior men's qualifiers. All the age groups and women's qualifying is based on centralized tournaments so nothing changes, plus NZ played most of their games in the middle east so they could always play their home games somewhere neutral, if it costs too much to fly everyone into New Zealand.
Winning games against decent teams would be a start, wherever in the world we play them. Australia undertook a programme of playing "home" games in London in the mid-200s - got better opponents, decent results, more invites to play in Europe etc etc. It wasn't the same as playing in Aus, but built news and profile and momentum. We could do worse than start with a tactic like that...
Does that not circle back to the same issue that beating 'decent teams' is a lot harder than a lot seem to expect. The last four games (excluding Oman, because no one saw it) have shown that the AWs are not at that level to win those games. The level of team we can beat comprise of countries that the average football-agnostic punter would not consider impressive, so there's no real ground to be gained. Was anyone outside the diehards impressed by beating Curacao, Bahrain and Gambia? Would they care more if we managed an unlikely upset win against Albania or Montenegro? That's probably another unwanted side effect of being rugby-dominant, people expect to be at the pinnacle when that isn't possible with football.
Australia in the mid-2000s also had a very good side, a few steps ahead of their current side, which, as we saw, is a few steps ahead of our current side.
Yes, Australia back then were definitely a better side than we are currently. But it's about starting somewhere. There's a lot of teams in Europe - and there are also other teams, like us, with Euro based squads who can play in London. Australia, for instance, took on South Africa at Loftus Road, and Jamaica at the Madejski, as well as like Norway at Craven Cottage and stuff like that. It's about starting somewhere and building momentum.
For example, let's say one window we arrange to play Albania and Montenegro (to use your examples). Maybe the results aren't flash to start with, and only the diehards are watching. But let's say across the next 3 windows in that calendar year we face Estonia, Lithuania, Norway, Wales and Slovenia (just picking teams we've played before that we have a line of contact with). Now again, not exactly sexy headlines stuff on the whole, but let's say we get a couple of draws, and perhaps even a win across these fixtures - and get a core group of Euro based players getting 6 games together in a year... by the next year, perhaps we're of interest to the likes of Slovakia, Hungary, Scotland, Eire, Poland and other teams we've played before... and again results may not be amazing but overall things are starting to shift in a certain direction...
And yes I know the windows aren't that easy, and lots of teams have Nations League etc etc - it's not a perfect idea, it's a starting point. And to be honest, as an All Whites nerd, I'd rather we actually had a game against the likes of Gibraltar or Andorra than no game at all during a FIFA window. And again, I believe there is merit in having northern and southern hemisphere squads for friendlies...
I'll stick this here. Lets see if much comes of it, or is just more window dressing. OFC also recently signed a MOU with CONCACAF.
You'd hope for the Island teams they can get some friendlies amongst the weaker East Asian teams. None of the Island teams have any March friendlies lined up yet. And yes a combined OFC/AFC Nations League with different divisions, would be the pipe dream.
The MOU will focus on creating high-level competition for men’s and women’s teams and the exchanging of knowledge, experience and resources through the technical and administrative training of the respective Confederations.
I'll stick this here. Lets see if much comes of it, or is just more window dressing. OFC also recently signed a MOU with CONCACAF.
You'd hope for the Island teams they can get some friendlies amongst the weaker East Asian teams. None of the Island teams have any March friendlies lined up yet. And yes a combined OFC/AFC Nations League with different divisions, would be the pipe dream.
The MOU will focus on creating high-level competition for men’s and women’s teams and the exchanging of knowledge, experience and resources through the technical and administrative training of the respective Confederations.
The MoUs are often just good PR all around without much in the way of stuff actually happening. Time will tell whether this is any different I guess.
For example, CONCACAF just announced (or had leaked) yesterday or so that the 2025 Gold Cup will feature 24 teams - 16 from CONCACAF and two each from AFC, CONMEBOL, CAF and UEFA as a warm-up prep for the World Cup similar to the old Confederations Cup. It noticeably skipped over OFC after inviting everyone else. If the MoU doesn’t get an OFC team in a situation like that, you have to wonder if anything will ever eventuate from it.
That is disappointing news from an AWs angle, and yes so much for that CONCACAF-OFC MoU.
I'm sure we would love to be at the Gold Cup. Most UEFA teams/fans wouldn't really care that much I imagine. Some of 16 CONCACAF teams will be weaker than the AWs, so it can't be all about having big name teams only.
But this again highlights why Herdman was such a longshot. In 2025 the AWs will be getting their teeth into OFC qualifying in Rarotonga.
I'll stick this here. Lets see if much comes of it, or is just more window dressing. OFC also recently signed a MOU with CONCACAF.
You'd hope for the Island teams they can get some friendlies amongst the weaker East Asian teams. None of the Island teams have any March friendlies lined up yet. And yes a combined OFC/AFC Nations League with different divisions, would be the pipe dream.
The MOU will focus on creating high-level competition for men’s and women’s teams and the exchanging of knowledge, experience and resources through the technical and administrative training of the respective Confederations.
The MoUs are often just good PR all around without much in the way of stuff actually happening. Time will tell whether this is any different I guess.
For example, CONCACAF just announced (or had leaked) yesterday or so that the 2025 Gold Cup will feature 24 teams - 16 from CONCACAF and two each from AFC, CONMEBOL, CAF and UEFA as a warm-up prep for the World Cup similar to the old Confederations Cup. It noticeably skipped over OFC after inviting everyone else. If the MoU doesn’t get an OFC team in a situation like that, you have to wonder if anything will ever eventuate from it.
Ouch. I hope the whole tournament gets cancelled by thunderstorms.
