Team for that night in November

Team for that night in November

I'd be tempted by Oughton instead of Ivan and Brown vs Barron would be a tight call. Hard News2009-06-22 22:56:08

Will Vicelich be avaliable? Is he going to stick to his guns about international retirement now he's fulfiled the ConFed Cup emergency call?

Average.

Its a bit early to be picking a team yet. This time last year you wouldnt have had either Sigmund or Wood in there. eg: If wood starts banging in the goals for WBA 1st team you more than likely gonna want him to be starting.

Way too early to select a side. It needs to be selected on form!!!

If you were picking it now on form (but ignoring Nelsons injury) I would suggest...

---------------------------------------Paston---------------------------------

Scott -----------------Nelson ---------------- Sigmund -------------Lochead

-------------------- Vicelich ----------------------- Elliott -------------------

James -------------------------- Smeltz ------------------------- Bertos

----------------------------- Wood --------------------------------------

4-2-3-1
Brown as a possible replacement for Vicelich if he is making himself unavailable, but I would also consider Andy Barron in that role..

Paston in because Moss suspended.
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No, I'm trying to show support for Phoenix players.

Vicelich at full back? No way. He did a average job at CB but he will get shown up badly at FB.

IMO Scott, Siggy or Oughton should get the nod. (though obviously Siggy is needed in the middle) Even Christie would be better.

Is James on form? And Vicelich in midefield on form? Dunno about that

We got to hope Killen can get game time under Mowbray, otherwise he must talk to him and find a good club with gametime. and prove himself

As long as Mulligan and Boyens aren't anywhere near the field, we have a chance.

On the Iraq performance i would have scott before vicelish. Surely Christie wot earn a spot

you never know though. With Herbert, Christie and Brown will probably feature. I think for the october clash we could be looking at:

               Paston
Scott   Nelsen  Siggy Lochhead
        Vicelich    Brown
Christie     Elliot      Bertos
              Smeltz/Killen

Pack our Defence and I think Christie would be seen as a more defensive option than Brockie. Although I would like to see James

+1, need Elliot and James in their to keep the ball flowing through the middle, plus Daniel on the Bench.

Well 4-2-3-1 is the latest formation idea for playing against Middle east teams.

I think that Daniel might be in the frame for WC qualifying playoffs squad. Not yet heard about Vicelich availablity or Fallon, McGinichly, Reid or Symth or Jack playing form or their eligibility ideas.

I think that if we do get to the WC finals, we may get more idea on whether they would like to have a selection trial for the NZ WC squad. An invitation after we do get past the playoffs. If we do get them on board, we really have a decent team at the WC finals and if we able to gain a World Cup Coach specialist for the tournament, there may be a few surprises.

What we need is a squad of players who are actually playing first team football. Too many of the players in the confed squad had been bench-warmers or sitting in the stands for their clubs. Hard enough making the step up to international football but near impossible for players who have had bugger all club play. RH needs to give the prospects a hard message if you're not playing for your club your chances of playing in the WC qualifiers will be slim.

Doubt he will do that, he has played his second string Nix players for some time now. I agree that is what is needed though.

Does anyone have any confirmation that Daniel will be available for selection?

And immediately halve the pool of players we can choose from.

We don't have enough high level experience to be setting such standards.

By applying this, you'd have to drop/not invite Killen, Wood, Bright, Oughton, Boyens, Smith (not to mention Christie and Mulligan) and there's no guarantee that either Moss, Paston or Brown would be starters for their clubs. That's practically half our squad, and see who you're left with. Add in a few injuries/loss of form, and using this logic we will be inviting Naenae Nighthawks regulars to turn out for the World Cup qualifiers.el grapadura2009-06-23 23:36:04

Yes, that may be the sort of thing that Pim Verbeek can threaten but it's not feasible for the All Whites.

1. Mark Paston

2. Aaron Scott
3. Tony Lochhead (???)
4. Ryan Nelsen
5. Ben Sigmund

6. Ivan Vicelich (Duncan Oughton)
7. Simon Elliott
8. Leo Bertos
9. Chris James (Jeremy Brockie)
10. Shane Smeltz

11. Chris Killen

That is our best eleven - playing 4-2-3-1. Greatest concern is left back. Tony Lochhead has the attributes to deliver better performances than he has done, but if there were an alternative, I'd drop Lochhead in a flash.

The midfield berth occupied by Chris James is also a concern - Tim Brown, Andy Barron and Duncan Oughton don't fill me with confidence. For all Oughton's MLS exposure he isn't appreciably better than Brown or Barron. James gets the nod for his creativity.

Elliott and Vicelich (if he can be convinced to play) pick up the defensive duties in front of the back four. Both players did their reputations no harm in South Africa with Elliott in particular very solid. Bertos is asked to do his usual job outwide with Chris James similarly on the other side, bracketed with Jeremy Brockie.

The Smeltz/Killen debate is answered in part by virtue of playing Smeltz in a withdrawn role, more or less conceding the fact we lack depth in that area of the park. Killen gets the long target-man role with Smeltz getting forward to assist.

are you having a laught?

No, I'm not having a laugh at all. Vicelich is one of the most experienced players New Zealand possesses - I doubt there is any other player out there, right now, capable of playing in the back four or defensive midfield zone.

The SBS commentary team described the New Zealand midfield as "the worst in the world" (Craig Foster). That may be taking criticism a little bit too far, but what it indicates is that it is bloody woeful at that level.

Vicelich plied his trade in Europe for a good many seasons in that role and I believe he is more than capable of stepping up to replicate that in the next 4 or 5 matches.

But you're a Manchester United supporter (and England?), so hadn't you better toddle off to the Superstore or something to buy club mouse pad, pen or keyring for next season? If you're going to have a pop, at least write something imaginative rather than a tired old catchphrase.

Quoting Craig Foster doesn't help your credibility.  A failed professional without the balls to put it on the line as a coach himself ?

Elliott was by far our best player in South Africa but a midfield that has had he and Ivan in it has never gelled and always looked disfunctional.  Ivan made his name as a left back or a centre-back, he's never looked convincing in midfield for the national side and I don't see it changing now he is playing at a level like the NZFC.

Just as well we are not all the same. I thought one of the few players that did not look out of place was Bertos.

Yeah, I don't understand why anyone is calling for Vicelich to play CM/DM after he played a few average/below average games at CB...

Did you all forget Ivan played in that role during his tenure in Dutch football? I think its worth trying Ivan in that role just so you can accommodate Ben Sigmund and Ryan Nelsen in the centre of defence.

If you have a third defensive player of Ivan's calibre and pedigree, all the better. I'm uncertain whether Ben Sigmund can play in midfield, but you want him on the pitch based on his performance against Iraq.

Simon Elliott and Ivan Vicelich dysfunctional in midfield cannot be any worse than the vacuum that was the vast tracts of empty space our midfield was at the Confederations Cup.

Hard News - your criticism of Craig Foster is bollocks. The guy is a two-faced slimeball, no arguments there, but he knows what he is talking about. He wouldn't be chief football analyst at a reputable and widely regarded international football network such as SBS if he were a complete numpty.

The fact Les Murray and just about every other pundit in Australia were describing New Zealand's performances in the same desultory manner adds weight to the overall perception expressed by media outlets globally that the Oceania representatives were out of their depth.

The World Game has become an irrelevance, it's agenda ridden rubbish from a team that are bitter that Fox Sports has made them irrelevant to the domestic game in Australia.

Fosters constant bandwagon jumping between nations that supposedly provide the 'path forward' for Australian football would be hilarious if it wasn't so cringeworthy and his slagging of anything british is laughable.

I dont care as long as Christie doesnt get on. And Boyens and Christie should not play either.

Perhaps Foster's slating of anything "British" is a healthy thing. After all, the British haven't won a meaningful trophy at international level since 1966.

The British are at fifa level almost an irrelevance themselves. An embarrassment (see John McBeth). Their Premier League is as average as it ever was, with the top four a financially assembled elite and the rest dotted with foreigners. The SPL is a long standing joke and the Northern Ireland and Wales set-up are lamentable.

New Zealand's historical and unhealthy obsession with all football things British has helped produce some of the worst football ever witnessed at the Confederations Cup, with performances that require dedicated followers to over-reach themselves in the search for scant positives while the rest of the world shakes its head with embarrassed disapproval.

If you want to take a look at punditry not worth a toss, Hard News, take one look at the meaningless and internet assembled drivel that masquarades as football analysis on sky sports New Zealand. Some of the eye-opening banal adds-nothing pap spouted there help make Craig Foster sound like Andy Gray, Alan Hansen or Ray Wilkins.

SBS reputation elsewhere (where it really matters) is exemplary. Whether Fox Sports has cornered the market on Australian domestic football or not.

Understand you dont like him, but that is a pretty harsh description. Wouldnt mind if some of our professionals were as "failed"

How many will get 9 goals for their country in 29 games and play professionally in England?

When did you need to be a successful coach to be a commentator?

He has an article here about pride in the Socceroo jersey that I agree with  http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/craig-foster/2009/06/27/1245961446288.html

I've watched the World Game for years and I find it unbearably smug, with its so-called 'expert' analysis often bizzarely off the mark. Foster's ego has grown massive since being annointed by SBS as Australia's football guru and it's now impossible to take him seriously. This is a guy who is in love with his own pompous pronouncements on the game, many of which are wildly conflicting, eg, promoting the Dutch school of football, but wanting Philleppe Trousier as national coach. Or, in the case of the Phoenix, praising them to the high heavens, then barely 12 months later happy to see them dumped from the A League and replaced by a Canberra team.

I personally didn't think any of our backs were that great in the Confed, and i put alot of that blame on our midfield players. We do not create enough going forward or hold the ball well enough. Which makes it very hard for our backs who are constantly under pressure woith players running through on them. Also how many goals were scored from pull backs to players our mids failed to track??

hell yeah he will be a tough bastard being taught by the best

plus can't go wrong with another smith

If he hadn't played for England I'm sure he would've been sure to play for us!!!

Maybe we could get Keane to persuade him to play as a thanks for letting him learn some coaching techniques from the All Blacks (before we turned to ass).

Why do we need to play Killy and Smeltz together.  They are too similar and based on our 0 goals stat from the confeds, don't seem to be in form either.  I would personally start Woods in place of one of them just for a mix of form and style.  Plus he has scored a tonne of goals in the last few months.

Which is why he shouldn't be in CB position as you need someone who can reacts and put on the speed in a short dash. His work in front of the goal was been mixed.

However working in the midfield is not about speed. It is about vision, positional with high percentage of complete passing and understanding about the game of which he has plenty of experience.

So really i wouldn't rule out the possibility. . . .

There is hardly much wrong with the combination. They had plenty of ball service and got into the space to shoot, but just failed to finish it off. They are also not that similar with Smeltz on the deeper role in the Iraq game. The midfield was lacking (except for Elliot) and the finishing misfired. Plus having a weak RB.

Sure Woods has a role with WBA but still have a bit to go to connect with the AWs. I think he will have a more of a role soon, but not sure about the WCQ. If anything he may get a bit of a run on the 1st leg but not sure on the 2nd leg game. But if we do to the WC finals we should see he have a run in some friendlies in the lead in to the WC finals.