The next All Whites coach

This is not the place for facts 2b.

Yeah sorry my bad.

' Brit mafia at NZF '...ok who are the members of this so called ' mafia '? Ridiculous statement...

The only ' Godfather ' is Ivan...

I find this an interesting post from Gordy who I understand has strong contacts with Auckland. Would I be correct after reading this post that Ramon is not in the final three?

Exactly. Wondering what his point was regarding seeing them play and the relevance to their coaching ability (or lack of). 

Watches this comment with interest to see various responses. Although how did the "Brit Mafia" allow Van Hattum and De Jong to be involved at the highest level. Learning more and more about football politics in this country every day.

Brits, Dutch, same thing. Remember King William III? (I'm sure the Rangers fans here do.)

In Scotland he was know as William 11.

If Farina, Butcher get the job I think I may have to actually give up on NZF! The fact these guys are even being spoken about scares me! Surely we have seen what a local coach can achieve! Yet we still think a hasbeen from Europe is going to be the answer!

There should be a rule that the new All Whites coach must never have coached Sydney FC! 

Probably Brit mafia is the wrong choice of words however I know what Buemagic is talking about.

In all my years playing there seem to be two cliches prevalent in NZ football. If you were of Brazilian nationality then you must be a fantastic player. The other was if you had a British accent then you must be a better choice as coach or whatever. I know of a few kiwi born coaches who having missed out on a job, thought that the Brit got the appointment because "Brits know more about football"

However like all stereotypes they never really stand up to 100% scrutiny. The fact is that football in NZ has always been a British game. Over the years hundreds of British immigrants have put there hand up and worked as coaches administrators etc. They did it because they loved the game and we should thank them for their imput. Because without them the game would have withered in NZ.

Times have moved on now as the game has taken on a broader appeal. Football is now the natural choice of tens of thousands of kiwis. Our immigrant base has widened to include lots more people interested in football. However there does appear to be an impression among some that the "British is best" cliche is still in force among those who run our game.

I guess the day that the Nix send their coach to scout players in South America and NZF appoint a Dutch/Spanish/Portuguese coach then we know we have moved on.

A lot of what you are saying is true in a historical sense, but we are talking about the HERE and NOW. The default position of it's " the Brit mafia in control ", or it's " the Brit mafia's fault "  is just a poor excuse; an abdication of responsibility. At the higher echelons, NZ football has been run and controlled by a " NZ mafia " for many years now. 

I have to go into bat for Martin and this process.

Martin may not have seemed the logical choice to a few people with his background and knowing nothing about the game in NZ. With that being said, he has not put a foot wrong or said anything wrong to the point of people in NZ know the game going 'that guy has no clue'. Thus far, he has done a good job and said the right things (for a person that has no knowledge of the game) so I'm loathe to throw stones at a guy that seems to be doing a good job just because he did not seem the logical choice.

With regard to the process don't forget for all those that scream this and that is going on, Ivan Vicelich is involved. I'm not a fan of the 3 names that came out in the press at all and knowing De Jong is involved makes me cringe but there is Ivan, who does know a thing about football, and playing the game and is extremely current in what is going on having only just retired internationally and played for both Ramon and Neil. I hope that they don't arrive at one of the 3 names mentioned but having said that, there is Martin that has no historical association with football, a very recent international in Ivan and the guy from Sport NZ (or something like that). Call it misguided faith if you like but this in no way screams of the 'Brit mafia' or some other kind of crap because the people involved are not from that connection.

Completely agree. Butcher especially would be a horrid appointment and would set us back years. Leggy summed it up well (not often you'll hear me say that), his overall win pct is 35. This is a man who struggles to win half his games in Scotland.

Ramon would be alright, not amazing but alright. The rest of those candidates..... ugh.

When I mentioned "Brit mafia" I was using it as a metaphor really for an attitude that a second rate choice from the UK is still better than a better candidate from elsewhere because of historical ties. None of the three UK candidates mentioned inspire much confidence, and despite JV's endorsement, I've heard nothing from new CEO Andy Martin to indicate he has any interest in NZ's premier domestic competition, the ASBP, other than as training options for A League and AW age group teams.

To choose either Butcher or Dowie to take charge of NZ football will be a big step backwards, just as I feel the appointment of Andy Martin is. I fully appreciate the tremendous input British players and coaches have had in developing NZ football over the decades but times have changed. The future of NZ football is with NZ's rapidly developing multi-cultural society, the old British mono-culture is fading. What Ramon has done at ACFC, a NZ Croatian-run club, has been tremendous and points to the future. Unfortunately NZF seem to be looking to the past at a very critical time.

As for Van Hattum and De Jong, neither fill me with optimism going on past performances. Neither should be in the position they were or are in. Personally I think it's all going to end in a premature departure from the hailed UK overlord when the coffers are once again bare.

As for Ramon and Emblen, they've proved they care about NZ football and know the scene. It's a pity Rufer's religious views get in the way of his keen football judgement, otherwise I'd rather him. I'd even prefer to take a punt on Ivan Vicelich at this early stage of his coaching career, but please not Dowie or Butcher!

Thats a good post BM and you largely don't get any disagreement from me.

I think I may have mentioned this before but considering Martin has been in the job 5 months, I think you need to give him a little bit longer to look at the ASBP and a full season of it. He has had to fix some other things first one of which was a huge cultural issues at HO as well as the AW coach/report and the budget. I don't think the responsibility is his alone to fix the ASBP (and it may well fit under others like FDJ and Chris Kemp) but he certainly is the man whom will be ultimately responsible as the CEO. 

I'm not going to hijack this too much so the solution for the ASBP can be discussed elsewhere but I have heard of some minor tweaks for the next season that wont largely been seen (and are only 3rd hand rumours so not prepared to comment) but let him see the league in its entirely and then get the budget aligned so that there can be a financial fix if possible. We've got 6.1m lollies but its how you use that effectively that matters the most not just using it for the sake of it. Otherwise you are just pissing it away. I think there still needs to be some perspective around what the ASBP actually does/is/will be before saying 'lets fix this' cause everyone has a different opinion on what purpose it should serve.

At the moment, considering the coach of the AWs has not been picked yet, lets allow the guy the opportunity to pick the right coach before saying he has done a shit job. I do agree that if 1 of those 3 UK names come out of it, I'll happily throw stones at him along with others.

Have we all rubbished the possibility that others might be in line that haven't been mentioned yet?

two ridiculous statements right there, the fact Rufer applied for the job is a joke in itself with not having any significant coaching experiance. Ivan would be good in have as a potenial assistant "maybe"

No I don't think so. I think that we know there is a shortlist of 3 and the only people we know have applied by telling us in the press are Farina, GVE, Wynton, Emblen, Ramon, Dowie, Sanchez and Butcher. Unfortunately, Farina seems to be the only one on that list that ticks all NZFs requirements....

Others involved may not have as high a profile as those on that list. Otherwise you would think its reasonable to assume that their name might have been leaked the same time as the other 3 rumoured.

The practicalities maybe ridiculous but I would take Wynton and Ivan over Sanchez, Butcher and Dowie because the idea of appointing one of those 3, in my opinion, is that fucking bad.

Rufer has more coaching experience than Ramon.

the world is full of unemployed coaches of a much higher standard than dowie, farina, butcher and sanchez.  alex mcleish applied for the phoenix job and he has a record and pedigree 10x better than any of those guys.

it disturbs me that no better names have emerged through the rumor vine

i can't remember who it was, but i agree with whoever said that we need to go with 'young and hungry' for this one.  unless NZF have someone better up their sleeves

I have a really bad feeling about it all. And I'm not usually one to jump on the doomed-wagon!

But I just find the whole process extremely long and potentially quite useless. First the new NZF boss takes forever to get a report on why we failed in Honiara (wasn't that pretty obvious? He could've asked anyone who watched the games and he would have received a pretty uniform answer I think).

Now we're short listing a handful of coaches from over a hundred, yet most of the names in the hat don't seem to be what we are looking for.

I personally think that more than a coach we need good leadership from a board perspective and a long time strategy in place (moving to the Asian Confederation and playing regular - or at least as-regular-as-possible) meaningful fixtures both at home and away.

Pick either a local coach who has done very well (Emblen, Ramon) or go with one who understands NZ's unique situation. To be this means hiring a decent Aus coach - I personally would have sold my car to help pay for Graham Arnold as the next AW coach.

I really hope they are able to pick a confident, capable coach who (if from overseas) is able to spend a lot of time in NZ to ensure he picks the best players for his side. 

i agree with what you said about graham arnold

What and where? a average stint with the knights or kingz which ever is was. He did an average job with PNG u20 recently!

Still pro and international coaching experience.

My preferred candidate has always been Ramon, just saying that he is the least experienced candidate, no pro coaching experience.

I'm thinking he won't be signed because of that - they will look at Farina and think he ticks all the boxes, even played finals football last season with SFC, its going to be a nightmare.

I encountered Iain Dowie when I lived in England, during his stint in charge of Crystal Palace when he got them promoted.  Despite all the jokes about him being ugly or whatever, in person he comes across as really charismatic and professional, and talks with real knowledge about stuff like "processes" that modern HR people seem to like to hear... only saying this because it may mean that he interviews very very well, and may convince decision-makers he's the right man for the job...

Not saying that he is, just saying that this could be a factor in the final result...

Don't forget North Shore United.

I remember when he was Shores coach.  LOL

clutching at straws a bit. Think Ramons success and fact he has been where he is for as long as he has been shows he has more experiance.

PNG u20 who draw with American Samoa u20 is hardly interntional quality.  

What a lame response when questioned by me and others to your 'Brit Mafia post'  Bluemagic. 

Perhaps you should now take a few days off to remove fence sitter splinters from arse. 

Emblem with a quality assistant should have at least made final 3, Surely? If not why not?

Sadly reading these posts, news papers etc, leaves me with little confidence in process, CEO and our NZF.

You guys and Bluemagic want Ramon 'moved on' because he's done his dash at ACFC. 

Try ..." Should have applied  "....arrogant prat , comes to mind ..." they know where I live ..." 

Please learn how to read.

Sincerely,

- Ryan

I'm assuming so. I've seen no where that has confirmed the names mentioned are even among those being considered - just that they are known to have applied (could be wrong though).

McLeish is a dogshit manager.

got to say if this is the short-list then I'm incredibly disappointed.  You only have to look at the England team to see this is a poor idea, without wanting to offend anyone, but the British way is now what is wrong with our game here. It has carried us so far but we could do with a new approach, and not Farina. Though there was a great article in the Herald today about the tactics and  evolution of the international game at this World Cup, we would do well to to look at that.

I haven't and these guys were initially linked in the British press where presumably these guys still have plenty of contacts.  I do doubt that anyone involved in the game like Ivan and Fred would actually be impressed by these names.  They're both pretty experienced and have European rather than British playing experience

AW coach is the first big appointment on Andy's watch and it will have his stamp on it rather than freds. When he moved to London Irish (his first senior sporting job), he brought in the corporate suits and threw out experienced sports people, ie in a new environment he went for people that he knew. An ageing Brit might feel like a safer, more comfortable appointment to him, rather than a relatively inexperienced local. I hope it's wrong but I've heard Sanchez from one of my sauces.

I have heard too from some of my football contacts in the UK that Sanchez is on the short list. Don't know much about him except he did have a good run in WC qualifiers with Nth Ireland. However he has coached at some really low level clubs and his coaching win loss record is poor.

Of more concern is the fact that I have heard him described as an old school long ball merchant. If this is true then it is not the modern style of football that many of us were hoping for. We should have kept Ricki if that is the way NZF want to play the game FFS!