I found the Uffi comment a bit childish. Nothing wrong with be not getting the job and then still interested in the job when the preferred candiy fell through. It won’t be the last time that happens to him. Uffi should know that they are a bit inept, open the channels for further discussions and offer suggestions to make this work.
I found the Uffi comment a bit childish. Nothing wrong with be not getting the job and then still interested in the job when the preferred candiy fell through. It won’t be the last time that happens to him. Uffi should know that they are a bit inept, open the channels for further discussions and offer suggestions to make this work.
I don't know, it brings back memories of what he said right at the very start of the process where I'm sure he said something along the lines of he'll 'only take the job if he continues with the Phoenix'. There's other quotes of him mentioning that he'd like to manage 'a national team at some point' rather than 'the national team'. Could well be going too far into the semantic minutiae, but it's possible he was never too keen on the All Whites job. That would be a possible reason why he wouldn't throw his name back into the ring if that became a possibility.
He seems to enjoy coaching the Phoenix but everyone's bottom line counts, and possibly the AWs was a why-not shot at doubling up, with the main focus being the Phoenix and the AWs the side-piece. It's no coincidence this has all come about at the same time as he comes off contract at the Phoenix, and it could well be debatable whether he would've applied if he had two more years on his contract.
NZF stating that the successful candidate would be Auckland-based could also be a slight indication that weren't overly enthusiastic about a job-share situation. There's only so much time one person can give, and giving 70% to two things is worse than giving 100% to one.
"sigh"...NZF's recruiting skills remind me of a 14yr old trying to get a date for the school disco.
Having committed the school boy error of thinking their "preferred candidate" from the year above with flowing blonde hair & hour glass figure might actually be interested cos she smiled politely across the canteen rather than crush him with instant rejection, whilst the potential "back-ups with lovely personalities" had grown weary of waiting & decided to look elsewhere....A lonely & miserable night ensued....again
Think of this scenario, played out in a different context:
"I've asked her to marry me. I'm certain she's saying yes, but we've had to delay the date to pick the engagement ring cos someone in her family got sick, but I'm sure we're getting engaged."
Red flags much?
I just don't get why you would say anything publicly until the preferred candidate was officially signed up...
They announced the China games - someone is going to ask who is coaching them so they provided an update, though could have described the situation differently.
I found the Uffi comment a bit childish. Nothing wrong with be not getting the job and then still interested in the job when the preferred candiy fell through. It won’t be the last time that happens to him. Uffi should know that they are a bit inept, open the channels for further discussions and offer suggestions to make this work.
How? They've already rejected him and he's making it clear that he's not going to wait through the whole process again.
Let's be real, it's going to go to March/April now - and that's when Uffie is finishing a really important part of the season with us then making a decision on his contract. He doesn't wanna wait around to see if NZF want him some six months after he applied having already rejected him.
Umm. So the 5th candidate wasn't Paul Nevin after all, but a Scot called Scot. Pretty similar CV to Bazeley's. Has had the Scottish U21 role for over 6 years, so must be rated for working with young players.
It is not known whether (Scot) Gemmill has been told he hasn’t got the job, like Talay, or if he still remains in contention, but compared with Herdman, Buckingham and Talay, the Scottish age-group coach could not be accurately described as “an absolute standout”.
Coaching career His first steps in to coaching were as a player/coach under Jim Smith at Oxford United in 2006. He then became player/coach at the New Zealand Knights in the Australian A-League.
Anyone reckon that if the NZ journos, who reported it was JH, didnt report it. That about this time we would have JH as the AW coach? Or was it always a snowflakes chance in hell and NZF got sold up the creek?
But none of that has any ring of truth to it. If NZF were serious in the job/share arrangement, it wouldn’t make sense for them to say the coach had to move away from the club. I also can’t see why NZF would come up with this elaborate story/requirement just so they didn’t have to say to Talay that they think they have found a better candidate.Ryan
Man this is a soap opera. Latest information is that NZFs requirements was that the coach lives in Auckland and that they rang David Dome to see if that was all right, so it might not be that Ufuk was rejected just because they thoguht they had Herdman lined up, but also because the Phoenix didn't want their full time head coach to move to another city for a part time position.
I found the Uffi comment a bit childish. Nothing wrong with be not getting the job and then still interested in the job when the preferred candiy fell through. It won’t be the last time that happens to him. Uffi should know that they are a bit inept, open the channels for further discussions and offer suggestions to make this work.
How? They've already rejected him and he's making it clear that he's not going to wait through the whole process again.
Let's be real, it's going to go to March/April now - and that's when Uffie is finishing a really important part of the season with us then making a decision on his contract. He doesn't wanna wait around to see if NZF want him some six months after he applied having already rejected him.
An upset Australian throwing a tanty....love to see it!
Anyone reckon that if the NZ journos, who reported it was JH, didnt report it. That about this time we would have JH as the AW coach? Or was it always a snowflakes chance in hell and NZF got sold up the creek?
That is the ultimate question really. From NZF perspective, by not putting the name out there, they thought they would be safe. Unfortunately, once it got out in the open, it was always going to be a firestorm in Canadian football media and their federation was going to rush into action.
But none of that has any ring of truth to it. If NZF were serious in the job/share arrangement, it wouldn’t make sense for them to say the coach had to move away from the club. I also can’t see why NZF would come up with this elaborate story/requirement just so they didn’t have to say to Talay that they think they have found a better candidate.Ryan
Man this is a soap opera. Latest information is that NZFs requirements was that the coach lives in Auckland and that they rang David Dome to see if that was all right, so it might not be that Ufuk was rejected just because they thoguht they had Herdman lined up, but also because the Phoenix didn't want their full time head coach to move to another city for a part time position.
its the requirement of the position that they're based in Auckland not some elaborate ploy to disqualify Talay. It doesn't make sense but sometimes information gets lost and assumptions are made.
I remember the wahinix almost fell over because the Phoenix assumed that they'd have the same rules as the men's team around hiring kiwis, and the FFA assumed that they'd have the same as the other a league women teams. Eventually they landed somewhere in the middle.
I found the Uffi comment a bit childish. Nothing wrong with be not getting the job and then still interested in the job when the preferred candiy fell through. It won’t be the last time that happens to him. Uffi should know that they are a bit inept, open the channels for further discussions and offer suggestions to make this work.
How? They've already rejected him and he's making it clear that he's not going to wait through the whole process again.
Let's be real, it's going to go to March/April now - and that's when Uffie is finishing a really important part of the season with us then making a decision on his contract. He doesn't wanna wait around to see if NZF want him some six months after he applied having already rejected him.
An upset Australian throwing a tanty....love to see it!
Jog on. The longest serving Nix manager, through the pandemic.
Uffie was really cut up due the interview so the possibility of getting the job and staying with the Nix and NZ wasn’t something he’d ruled out entirely. But maybe now has to.
Pragnell just continuing the NZF ignorance of football in NZ, why does the AW's coach have to be based in Auckland? The ony professional side is in Wellington, the best training facilities are here too. Being out of Auckland doesnt stop a new coach being involved with the staff in Auckland. So short sighted. Clearly the "not being in Auckland" killed Uffie's chances but that really shows how shortsighted and arrogant Pragnell and co are.
I'm not surprised Talay wasn't a top contender. Not because he isn't a good coach, but even if ALM broke for international window, there is a bunch of preparation, scouting, team building that goes happen outside of them.
It made more sense when Herbert was around. Out of the 18 players who were selected for Bahrain players, 13 played in NZ or Australia. For the Costa Rica game, it was 5 out of 23. Our talent pool is much bigger and mostly overseas. Much harder now to keep tabs on them.
Pragnell just continuing the NZF ignorance of football in NZ, why does the AW's coach have to be based in Auckland? The ony professional side is in Wellington, the best training facilities are here too. Being out of Auckland doesnt stop a new coach being involved with the staff in Auckland. So short sighted. Clearly the "not being in Auckland" killed Uffie's chances but that really shows how shortsighted and arrogant Pragnell and co are.
Should have been clear up front They were just humouring him. A complete waste of his time. Whether or not he waas the best candidate is beside the point
Pragnell just continuing the NZF ignorance of football in NZ, why does the AW's coach have to be based in Auckland? The ony professional side is in Wellington, the best training facilities are here too. Being out of Auckland doesnt stop a new coach being involved with the staff in Auckland. So short sighted. Clearly the "not being in Auckland" killed Uffie's chances but that really shows how shortsighted and arrogant Pragnell and co are.
Should have been clear up front They were just humouring him. A complete waste of his time. Whether or not he waas the best candidate is beside the point
exactly, clear up front with the Nix too, they have bent over backwards and worked with NZF to get the women's team up and running, you'd think Pragnell would have at least engaged with Dome and co to discuss how it would work. Clearly not interested,whcih is fine, but lt the people involved know.
to me, it seems that David Dome & the Nix feel like a little bit precious here & clearly want that Ufuk gets the NZ to keep him at the nix.
NZF really has no affiliation with the Phoenix, the Phoenix are a private business based in Wellington that compete in an Australian league, while NZF clearly didnt think he's the suitable candidate.
I am not sure why Dome has to get involved, and while the women's team is joint venture in some way, in a way it's good that NZF and the Nix are two seperate entities.
Dome should focus on getting crowds back to the RoF, getting more commercial partners & building a successful team that can win some silverware. Not this.
Maybe I am completely wrong on this and happy to be called out.
Yeah, personally I completely disagree and I'm impressed by what Dome has done today Also, I'm sure Dome is also busily focusing on crowds, running the club etc.
fair enough. To me its just a funny sitution that the CEO of a football club is upset that his head coach didnt get the national team coaching position. I guess the Nix and NZF finds itself in a weird situation compared to most of the world reg22
Yeah, personally I completely disagree and I'm impressed by what Dome has done today Also, I'm sure Dome is also busily focusing on crowds, running the club etc.
Wonder what Ryan Nelsen thinks of all this. He was on the interview panel. Knows the CONCACAF scene probably better than anyone at NZF
Surely he told Pragnell we would be up against it getting Herdman. I read somewhere on $CDN750k pa with Canada Soccer, home WC in a few years. Gold Cups and maybe Copa Americas
Why would he realistically consider the AWs. Surely the smart Nellie would have been wise to that
Hay not looking so bad at this point. They must be regretting telling him he must reapply seeing as they are likely now down the list enough to not get anyone better.
fair enough. To me its just a funny sitution that the CEO of a football club is upset that his head coach didnt get the national team coaching position. I guess the Nix and NZF finds itself in a weird situation compared to most of the world reg22
Yeah, personally I completely disagree and I'm impressed by what Dome has done today Also, I'm sure Dome is also busily focusing on crowds, running the club etc.
I read it more as a general sense of frustration that for so long now the Nix and NZF have had these communication issues, to the detriment of both parties. Whether it was a viable option or not time has been wasted and noses put out of joint, all because evidently it wasn't properly laid out what the conditions for Talay would be.
Also, it may well be the way things are done now days but with such a small pool of candidates I think the unsuccessful ones were at least owed the professional courtesy of a phone call and a thank you. Mind you, if they've seen Uffie in one of his full-on rages on the sidelines they are perhaps a bit scared of him.
I'm not surprised Talay wasn't a top contender. Not because he isn't a good coach, but even if ALM broke for international window, there is a bunch of preparation, scouting, team building that goes happen outside of them.
It made more sense when Herbert was around. Out of the 18 players who were selected for Bahrain players, 13 played in NZ or Australia. For the Costa Rica game, it was 5 out of 23. Our talent pool is much bigger and mostly overseas. Much harder now to keep tabs on them.
Yipe to me the co share thing would be a bad bad option. All of the FIFA windows apart from June (when the AWs rarely play anyways) full during the ALM season. Even if ALM observed the windows, you have Talay flying most likely to Europe immediately post a Nix game to suddenly switch all his planning & focus onto international football, for a game in 3 days. Again you just risk having shark house prep for the AWs, and a pissed off playing group (as it was at the end of Ricki's reign). Is no other team in international football I can think of, that has a coach wearing dos somberos.
However it seems NZF's communication with the Nix has been really poor, and if so Dome has a right to be angry about that. For Uffie just to get a HR type 'sorry but in this instance you....' template letter is rather childlike pathetic. You only had 5 interviewed candidates - and one works inhouse! Do the right thing and pick up the fudgeing phone and just tell the only professional coach in NZ, that he has missed out.
Pragnell said the new coach has got to be a collaborative sort (unlike Hay) prepared to work with all the other coaches/technical staff at NZF. But that should extend to the whole small NZ football community. It works both ways. Practice what you preach. So set the proper example, and communicate well with the Nix. What is the new GM High Performance - Keir Hansen doing? Surely that role includes working closely with NZ's only pro club as much as possible. He also sat in on the interviews?
I had hope things were improving under Pragnell, but sadly appears not. That's unless the almost boasted "stand out" candidate is a completely new name, that we will all be doing cartwheels over once revealed - but everything now points to it being Herdman, and Pragnell & Co read the situation very very wrong.
fair enough. To me its just a funny sitution that the CEO of a football club is upset that his head coach didnt get the national team coaching position. I guess the Nix and NZF finds itself in a weird situation compared to most of the world reg22
Yeah, personally I completely disagree and I'm impressed by what Dome has done today Also, I'm sure Dome is also busily focusing on crowds, running the club etc.
I read it more as a general sense of frustration that for so long now the Nix and NZF have had these communication issues, to the detriment of both parties. Whether it was a viable option or not time has been wasted and noses put out of joint, all because evidently it wasn't properly laid out what the conditions for Talay would be.
Also, it may well be the way things are done now days but with such a small pool of candidates I think the unsuccessful ones were at least owed the professional courtesy of a phone call and a thank you. Mind you, if they've seen Uffie in one of his full-on rages on the sidelines they are perhaps a bit scared of him.
That's what I think. Definitely scared of the forthright Uffie. But still pathetic, and no way to garner respect.
Wonder what Ryan Nelsen thinks of all this. He was on the interview panel. Knows the CONCACAF scene probably better than anyone at NZF
Surely he told Pragnell we would be up against it getting Herdman. I read somewhere on $CDN750k pa with Canada Soccer, home WC in a few years. Gold Cups and maybe Copa Americas
Why would he realistically consider the AWs. Surely the smart Nellie would have been wise to that
There probably was a bit of skepticism around the whole thing, but if you have a high-level candidate saying he's all in, which NZF made it out to be, then at some point the skepticism would turn to a genuine belief that the guy in front of them isn't straight lying to their face.
Apparently the Herdman family isn't short on cash, so maybe there weren't solely financial reasons, and that they missed New Zealand. John Herdman lived for almost a decade here, and then has spent the last 12 years in Canada. Maybe he said he wanted a change, only he and the interviewers will really know what he said and how genuine it was.
It wasn't always plain sailing as CanMNT coach either, with pay disputes about players and their image rights, especially around the stars like Alphonso Davies. There were also things like having to cancel friendlies with Iran due to the negative backlash received and with Panama due to a player strike. With Canada having a starting XI that is probably the best in CONCACAF and hosting next time around, the noise around the team is just going to intensify, and the AWs gig is almost the antithesis of that. He could be able to walk from North Harbour HQ to the Albany Mall without so much as being recognised, and that could have been more appealing than balancing Canada Soccer executives and CanMNT superstars.
Also, just as NZF flirted with him, there were reports that CS was potentially flirting with Carlo Ancelotti, who is on shaky ground at Real Madrid and has a Canadian wife who would probably welcome such a move. After all, Herdman and Canada did go to Qatar with a lot of deserved hype, but somewhat failed to deliver - one goal and three losses. A tough group - Morocco and Croatia were both semifinalists and Belgium still had some semblance of their 2018 side - but it would've dimmed the hype regardless. In the brief few hours between the Gourdie report and the CS statement, there were quite a few people saying that it wasn't actually bad that he was leaving and that he had taken the team as far as he could.
Jay Herdman being in the U20s could've also been a factor. I'm sure Herdman Sr would love to coach his son at international level, and the likelihood of that happening would be a lot higher in the AWs let's be honest. It's not impossible that it could happen in the CanMNT, but the bar is a lot higher and he did miss out on their U20s for the CONCACAF qualifiers after all.
With hindsight I'm sure most of the panel would look back sheepishly, but in real time, especially if Herdman looked and sounded entirely genuine in his interest, it's a different story.
Assuming Herdman was all in until he wasnt, NZF really should have waited to decline the others until they had the signed contract in their inbox. As someone has said when the "family issues" arose you out a deadline on the signature, give him a week to sign or the offer is gone. You can always delay the start date if necessary. Then, once you have your man you can let the other candidates know and announce. If the signed contract doesnt arrive you get to go to #2 or #3 and make an offer and noone knows any better. Of course you need to make sure your staff arent leaking to the media ahead of time. just really poor handling of the process, Uffie and other candidates have every right to be annoyed, and Dome and the Nix as well, they have been a massive part of developing NZF men over the years and now the women in the last two. They have every right to expect that their arrangment with NZF would extend to better communications.
to me, it seems that David Dome & the Nix feel like a little bit precious here & clearly want that Ufuk gets the NZ to keep him at the nix.
NZF really has no affiliation with the Phoenix, the Phoenix are a private business based in Wellington that compete in an Australian league, while NZF clearly didnt think he's the suitable candidate.
I am not sure why Dome has to get involved, and while the women's team is joint venture in some way, in a way it's good that NZF and the Nix are two seperate entities.
Dome should focus on getting crowds back to the RoF, getting more commercial partners & building a successful team that can win some silverware. Not this.
Maybe I am completely wrong on this and happy to be called out.
I agree with this. Dome obviously wanted Uffie to get the AWs role as he believed it would be the guarantor of him staying at the Nix. Now that's all up in the air. But NZ Football has to look after the interests of our national team and our domestic game, the Nix are not their responsibility.
I think he's right in that NZF should have gone in with better consultation with the Nix, but there seems to be a lot of entitlement on Domes end.
For what it's worth, the logic behind the coach needing to be based in Auckland is because NZF expects them to contribute to wider activities beyond that of coaching the men's first team. I.e., working with the rest of the Auckland staff.
I'm not saying I agree - I don't need a lecture on remote working - but I think it's unfair to just write-off the requirement without full context.
fair enough. To me its just a funny sitution that the CEO of a football club is upset that his head coach didnt get the national team coaching position. I guess the Nix and NZF finds itself in a weird situation compared to most of the world reg22
Yeah, personally I completely disagree and I'm impressed by what Dome has done today Also, I'm sure Dome is also busily focusing on crowds, running the club etc.
Dome is thinking about what's best for the 'Nix but knows that if any plans to better integrate with NZF need to show some benefit to NZF as well to try and win them over.
Who was the recruitment company these guys used? Surely they would have offered advice that you don’t tell people that were worthy of an interview they didn’t get the job, until you actually have hired someone and have a signed contract?
And does NZ football have an HR manager?
About time someone steps up like rain brown. If he can admit he dropped the ball, anyone can
I read it more that Dome was pissed off about the lack of engagement, rather than the result. If as Dome Said NZF was radio silent with the Phoenix and Talay for 6 weeks and finally got around to calling them earlier in the week, that's terrible form.
There was talk about why does the NZF have to work with the Phoenix, the answer is that the Phoenix are the only professional club, they're the only professional academy system, they have the best facilities, etc. It's not like the Phoenix are a big fish in a small pond, they are the pond and NZF needs to suck it up.
But, regardless of Phoenix, the fact that the CEO hasn't been down to Wellington to look at the facilities, etc. is crazy. Not only is Wellington one of the hub cities for the world cup, has the best facilities, and home to the only professional football team, it's also the home of the Olay football academy and finalists in every iteration of the current top tier of football.
Like it or not, the job of the CEO is to get around, be visible, and talk to the stakeholders.
