Anyone walked through the office or know of anyone who works/worked in NZF HQ? Let me tell you its one of the most dysfunctional working units in the country. Its scary i recommend you knock on the door one day.
If some one sent some one for milk they'd return with a loaf of bread.
Who ever the coach is lets give them a crack and hope its goes well. Personally as a fan I'm sick of being mucked around by this lot.
Sounds like you are making this up, which you seem to have a pattern of doing across this forum. NZF aren't great but to call them among the most dysfunctional working units in the country is nonsense lol. Also, they're a lot better than they used to be.
Current NZF: - Aided in getting the Aus-NZ Womens World Cup over the line - Helping with establishing and funding the Phoenix womens team - Successfully reformed and implemented a new National League format
They're far from perfect, but think it's a very easy cop-out to just blame NZF as useless/incompetent etc.
Ithomas I make this up? pattern? i have more contacts in and around nzf past and present than you would know. And what else have i made up? Please tell me. Come on lets not run with your hes a troll narrative.
NZF supplying and recommending staff and players yes, but do your homework...HPSNZ is funding education and the team set up for foreseeable future (not sure its the full 100% whack but near enough). Stop guessing and assuming from the couch.
Pragnall seems to be learning and doing a fair job for sure. But he can't do it all on his own. It's a mess in there.
Anyone walked through the office or know of anyone who works/worked in NZF HQ? Let me tell you its one of the most dysfunctional working units in the country. Its scary i recommend you knock on the door one day.
If some one sent some one for milk they'd return with a loaf of bread.
Who ever the coach is lets give them a crack and hope its goes well. Personally as a fan I'm sick of being mucked around by this lot.
Sounds like you are making this up, which you seem to have a pattern of doing across this forum. NZF aren't great but to call them among the most dysfunctional working units in the country is nonsense lol. Also, they're a lot better than they used to be.
Current NZF: - Aided in getting the Aus-NZ Womens World Cup over the line - Helping with establishing and funding the Phoenix womens team - Successfully reformed and implemented a new National League format
They're far from perfect, but think it's a very easy cop-out to just blame NZF as useless/incompetent etc.
Ithomas I make this up? pattern? i have more contacts in and around nzf past and present than you would know. And what else have i made up? Please tell me. Come on lets not run with your hes a troll narrative.
NZF supplying and recommending staff and players yes, but do your homework...HPSNZ is funding education and the team set up for foreseeable future (not sure its the full 100% whack but near enough). Stop guessing and assuming from the couch.
Pragnall seems to be learning and doing a fair job for sure. But he can't do it all on his own. It's a mess in there.
Don't worry about him, he just hates it when people have opinions that run against his narrative.
Just because NZF has mucked around fans and stakeholders for a long while now arounds announcements doesn't mean we get to a point whereby we just accept it! that's weak.
They should be communicating clearly to the fanbase and stakeholders and making deadlines. These guys are a business after all? unacceptable.
But back to whoever they now draw out of that hat....lets give them a chance to prove themselves with this group. If they turn out not to be what we need leading into a WC...then flick it off for a big name on short term WC deal. easy.
Just because NZF has mucked around fans and stakeholders for a long while now arounds announcements doesn't mean we get to a point whereby we just accept it! that's weak.
They should be communicating clearly to the fanbase and stakeholders and making deadlines. These guys are a business after all? unacceptable.
But back to whoever they now draw out of that hat....lets give them a chance to prove themselves with this group. If they turn out not to be what we need leading into a WC...then flick it off for a big name on short term WC deal. easy.
That last paragraph could actually be a realistic option, with the AWs basically having that free ride now through OFC to 48 team WC, and it's $16M pay day or whatever it will be then.
That cash windfall will feel alot closer in say 2025 than it does right now. So NZF could yes sack the underperforming incumbent and ring up Gus Hiddink or whoever.
But really how bad would the incumbent have to be doing to get the sack? Lose a qualifying game to Fiji or something. Get tanked 7-0 in a friendly verus Wales. Could happen I guess, but unlikely NZF would ever sack the coach unless it was couple of really really bad results, and obvious squad unhappiness/rebellion.
Anyone walked through the office or know of anyone who works/worked in NZF HQ? Let me tell you its one of the most dysfunctional working units in the country. Its scary i recommend you knock on the door one day.
If some one sent some one for milk they'd return with a loaf of bread.
Who ever the coach is lets give them a crack and hope its goes well. Personally as a fan I'm sick of being mucked around by this lot.
Sounds like you are making this up, which you seem to have a pattern of doing across this forum. NZF aren't great but to call them among the most dysfunctional working units in the country is nonsense lol. Also, they're a lot better than they used to be.
Current NZF: - Aided in getting the Aus-NZ Womens World Cup over the line - Helping with establishing and funding the Phoenix womens team - Successfully reformed and implemented a new National League format
They're far from perfect, but think it's a very easy cop-out to just blame NZF as useless/incompetent etc.
Ithomas I make this up? pattern? i have more contacts in and around nzf past and present than you would know. And what else have i made up? Please tell me. Come on lets not run with your hes a troll narrative.
NZF supplying and recommending staff and players yes, but do your homework...HPSNZ is funding education and the team set up for foreseeable future (not sure its the full 100% whack but near enough). Stop guessing and assuming from the couch.
Pragnall seems to be learning and doing a fair job for sure. But he can't do it all on his own. It's a mess in there.
You can't just make shark up on a forum and expect people to believe it. If you truly are so well connected, then name yourself rather than making up crap under a fake name.
Coochie be careful if you agree with me you'll be accused of believing fake news!
But back to proper chat with good footballing minds...Yeah it wouldn't be a bad idea to give someone that wasn't first or 2nd cab off the rank a two year deal and approach it as i said early with a big name before the world cup if it didnt work. I still think most coaches would jump at a initial 2 year deal to prove themselves. I think the ones they missed out on or more renown coaches would want a 4 year.
Hopefully we hear this week.....worst case scenario some communication and updated time frame or explanation to why fans and stake holders are being left in limbo.
China games coming up soon will be good...looking forward to that under any gaffer!
if it is Bazeley it just shows that NZF are just not interested in progressing the men's game anymore - for years they've trotted out excuse after excuse as to why we havent had games in the windows and even more excuses as to why we've had no home games. The leadership in that organisation is sharkhouse, they've managed to screw the game in NZ - and this has been a consistent thing since the 80's, they've mismanaged funds gained from qualifying for WC and other tournaments, they've managed to alienate players with poor coaching assignments (men and women's) and all for what? Where is the forward looking development plan, where is the talk of growing the game in Oceania and making our federation actually mean something? Where is the talk about maybe merging with an asian federation or moving? None of that! why? because the fat cats at the top see the big payday from the Men qualifying for the WC becuase even the worst AW's team should beat the smallest nations' teams and with 42 teams in the WC Oceania gets 1.5 spots. Yay for us - we can line our pockets and remain passive. No forsight - if Bazeley is the man picked for the job the AW's will be god awful!
If it is Bazeley then surely the jury should be out until he's actually had a run. Writing the tenure off before a ball has been kicked doesn't help anyone. All that'll happen is if things go well there'll be crickets, and if and when things don't, the detractors will come out and feel vindicated. Under previous coaches there was a sense some people wanted the team to lose just to have their 'told ya so' moment. If in two years things don't look too great, bearing in mind friendlies aren't the be-all and end-all, then questions should be asked, and perhaps the more vociferous opponents can offer to help finance a replacement, because NZF obviously can't afford many of the more favoured candidates.
As for NZF not talking about moving to AFC, that's not surprising at all. It simply isn't up to them. I can't think of any reason AFC would want us, not competitively nor financially appealing. OFC also wouldn't us to leave as it'd be the beginning of the end for them, and they would be a even bigger pain for everyone in AFC. Look at the records of non-NZ OFC teams at FIFA youth tournaments, where the gap is smaller than at senior level. The only time a senior island team went to a FIFA tournament they conceded 10 to Spain and 24 in total from their three games. FIFA would scrap OFC if that happened at a World Cup as it would make a mockery of the tournament. That's not even mentioning the women's side, where the top teams could genuinely put 20 or 30 on OFC sides if they wanted to.
I'm sure NZF would want to move if they had the chance. Playing the island teams probably loses money, three of the top five crowds since 2000 have been against AFC sides and we would be good shouts to qualify out of AFC with their expanded spots. But AFC isn't a charity designed to help out NZ. We can't just go hat-in-hand and ask nicely to join their club.
As for getting games, I can only really speak post-2010, I was too young before that, but the finances are the obstacle. It's fairly cut and dry I would have thought. For the most part, the crowds don't generate enough to make it work, since 2000 there's only been seven crowds in excess of 15,000. They were comprised of three Intercontinental Playoffs, two matches against Australia and two matches against World Cup opponents in the first window post-2010 World Cup; in other words, all big draws. New Zealand isn't a big draw to play away for opponents, given the 40hrs+ travel time to/from Europe, weak side and little financial incentives, so the majority of teams that would come here are unlikely to draw massive excitement from football fans, let alone general sports fans.
To be fair, we don't play at home enough to draw a big following to AW games.
By the same measure it seems most NZ national and domestic teams, whether footie, rugby or other codes struggle to get crowds to games.
I think kiwis are just a bit useless at showing support via attendance at games.
NZ sports fans are nothing compared to say American or even Aussies, who would literally turn up to watch competitive paint drying. NZ sports viewers are really fair weather fans, if we are winning we'll turn up as long as the weather is ok, if it looks like rain or wind or even a bit chilly then the couch at home looks way better. Our Stadia aren't flash either, most are either too big or built for multi-sports and therefore dont really work for either. But of course we don't have the money or space like the Aussies to build three purpose built arenas in the same area. In general we will say we are fans/supporters of these teams but in general its only a small handful that will actually go to any length to see their team live.
USA does everything for the customer or consumer to have the best experience possible. Of course they have more money to do this but even the simple things like availability of alcohol, food, merchandise etc is so quick and at the ready so you don't miss any action. There no deterrents to fun and enjoying yourself. This use to be the case in Australia too but they've also gone down the nz approach by making your experience less enjoyable at live events by deliberately causing longer lines for alcohol etc and making access inside the stadiums less convenient. In NZ they just want ya money and to bugger off. Has to be more to the experience than just the game! Some would suggest that if you remember the game in full you've probably not had a great day out!
USA is a less congested sporting market, they have plenty of sports but not as many teams for the population. However it is a great sporting experience and university sports is huge, like beaver stadium at Penn state University has more capacity than people who live in State Colleges, the city that Penn state is based in.
The people who really show us how to do it though are the Scots. Iirc they have the most professional sports teams per population and have the highest attendance per population and they turn up in the middle of a dreary and miserable winter to sit on hard seats and drink Bovril in terrible stadiums to watch pretty dire football.
The per-event $ cost to the average punter for an 80's or 90's sports going event involved a nominal entrance fee, a hot dog and a can of fizz.
It is not feasible for your average punter to shell out what is being extracted from them on a per event basis now. Marketing's desire to maximise each stakeholder instance has, over time, killed the sports market.
Overlay this with changes in family/social structures (work balance - 2 earners, child free play vs subscribed timetabled play events), and quite simply no one has much time any more.
Very few American teams sports involve international competition - and those that do, the club/franchise/Uni comps tend to have more focus/interest. In those competitions, there are regular games to watch (as opposed to waiting months on end for an international fixture to be organised...)
There is also some fundamental differences in culture between NZ & especially the UK. We typically have larger homes & sections (though they are getting smaller), and we spend alot of our weekends at home doing chores like DIY, mowing lawns etc. Price you pay to have the quarter acre dream.
Your average Pom in a Barnsley terrace house, has a slice of concrete out the back door, but a mostly free weekend to make the 3 hour train trip to London to watch a game against Millwall or whoever.
Also I think there is a stronger culture in NZ & Aus of parents spending/scarificing their Saturday mornings traipsing the kids around their various sports. When I lived in the UK in the late 90s I didn't get that vibe at all. Like that alot of Dads would rather take the kid to the football (via the pub) than watch their kids play football. We all know the pub culture is huge in the UK for all age groups.
And then lastly there is the pure tribalism that has existed in UK football for basically 100+ years - and also to an extent in the AFL & NRL in Aus. Your grandfather goes regularly to The Dell so you go as well. Your neighbour supports Charlton. Your workmate Fulham. Lots of banter, lots of watercooler talk. Football chat is never far away. Going to games just seems natural. I saw this especially living in the AFL bubble of Melbs for 6 years. Very tribal & a big part of why they get such good crowds each weekend.
There is very little tribalism in NZ sports - a little bit with Super & NPC rugby. But minor stuff in the big picture.
Edit - anyway sorry way off topic. Surely NZF announce the new gaffer this week.
I think in a lot of countries if you’re not good enough you don’t play. I had a mate from a football city with a bit of prestige in the UK who said for his primary school team 300 kids came to try out- for 14 spots. It’s the same in a lot of places, you don’t mess around with extra curricular stuff unless you’re guna be good at it.
next announcement will be an announcement that the AW's coach naming will be after the Fens play in Feb, we dont want to disrupt their build up or distract any attention form them.
expect AW's coach to be named in March '23
and while we wait for this to be named, we also wit for some fixtures to be confirmed,
first wndow for 2 matches is March 20-28, so we are running out of time to a) name a coach b) confirm some games in said window - as per Pragnell's promise.
Went back to that Burgess article published last Monday relating to the March matches and it mentioned that the new coach is expected to be appointed in the next two weeks. Obviously remains to be seen what happens.
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if we are getting dual roles just not Uffie like we expected. Instead they dropped the ball in spectacular NZF fashion with the other candidates and this further delay is them trying to see if Jitka Klimkova would take on the role in her spare time
I guess like the general job market in many sectors right now the market is fluid and generally in favour of candidates. Employers need to move fast, be decisive and pay well.
This whole process seems outdated. Designed to satify beaurocratic governance requirements, but too slow to capture talent.
It seems possible that, by the time interviews were completed and a decision made, the preferred candidate/s were no longer in the running, leaving just Uffie and Bazeley. Both of whom may be getting more and more offended by the lack of an offer by the day.
NZF have someone in mind for the role and they were apparently close to being signed but a 'family health issue' has delayed that. In the meantime, Bazeley will coach the team for the now confirmed China matches.
Wellington Phoenix coach Ufuk Talay was told on Tuesday he hadn’t got the job, which he and his bosses had been hoping he would be able to combine with his A-League Men duties.
Could we unfortunately be saying goodbye to Talay at the end of the season?
So, they might readvertise the role after the March games.
I read it as they have someone basically locked in, but that that person won't be available until post these March games.
Maybe they have had to deal with this serious family matter in a rush, and NZF is just rightly giving them some space to deal with that. Before hopefully later signing off on a contract, coach is announced etc. Optimistic view maybe, but I'm not unhappy Talay hasn't got the role. Not a fan of a coach wearing 2 hats. AWs role has moved on from the Ricki days. Needs a full commitment.
So, they might readvertise the role after the March games.
I read it as they have someone basically locked in, but that that person won't be available until post these March games.
Maybe they have had to deal with this serious family matter in a rush, and NZF is just rightly giving them some space to deal with that. Before hopefully later signing off on a contract, coach is announced etc. Optimistic view maybe, but I'm not unhappy Talay hasn't got the role. Not a fan of a coach wearing 2 hats. AWs role has moved on from the Ricki days. Needs a full commitment.
There is still possibility that the first choice doesn't sign on after March.
I don't understand if their first choice was keen but not available until after March, couldn't they have signed on with agreement to start after March and this could all be public without naming the person.
It's frustrating, and doesn't help NZF's image as being amateurish. But it's likely 2-3 years before WC qualifying starts, so it's far more important they get the best coach they can, rather than make a rushed appointment.
It obviously ain't Bazeley & obviously ain't Talay. Who is the mystery man? Never a dull moment in Albany HQ
With regard to that candidate, chief executive Pragnell said they were “an absolute standout,” that a contract offer had been made in early January, and that in his opinion, it was “very close” to being signed, before the “family health issue” arose “out of the blue”.
“We’re still in dialogue. We’re still positive. I remain optimistic about it,” Pragnell said.
“Having said that, we are dealing with variables that are outside of our control, but I’m still optimistic and positive about an outcome there.”
Pragnell said they would reassess the coaching vacancy and decide whether there was a need to readvertise the role after the All Whites’ matches against China, to be played at Mt Smart Stadium in Auckland on Thursday, March 23 and Sky Stadium in Wellington on Sunday, March 26.
I'm hoping this "standout" is just that, whoever it is must have put one hell of a case forward - I'm not certain any of the names we've mentioned would count as a standout..
I'm hoping this "standout" is just that, whoever it is must have put one hell of a case forward - I'm not certain any of the names we've mentioned would count as a standout..
Yes suspect it's someone pretty newish to the conversation mix. I'm gonna have a stab at Paul Nevin (yes others mentioned him first) - only because it seems all on the shortlist had a NZ connection. He has a pretty good CV, if he did apply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nevin
