Post history

History for Ted Striker

BAZEball - The Darren Bazeley Era

Back to topic

Current version

Posted February 06, 2023 10:30 · last edited February 06, 2023 10:40

coochiee
Ted Striker
coochiee
Australia's weakest WC team was 1974. All amateurs.
I'd say the 2022 squad personal were on a rough par with 2014 & 2018.
2006 was the Golden Generation and alot of those guys were still there in 2010.


Not sure if we can equate weakness or quality with professional vs amateur especially in 1974. The '74 Australian team still won home/away tie with Iran and a playoff with South Korea. It is true to say they were not as good as the players of today but relative to the rest of the world they were stronger. If we can note that there were only 16 teams in the 1974 World Cup and perhaps say that Australia was ranked 16th. Then that would be a stronger team vs the rest of the FIFA nations than the 2022 squad (The '74 Aus team also snagged a draw with Chile after going a man down). 

The 1974 Socceroos didn't score a goal in Germany. But that would have all been the fault of their coach, those amateurs not being able to bang in 10 goals against all those teams full of pros.

And not sure England, France or all the other teams that didn't qualify for that FIFA World Cup, would agree with a retrospective FIFA WR of 16 for the '74 Socceroos. Though they may have ranked higher than Zaire & Haiti who also qualified for that WC (their only ever apperances) to get some pastings.

Sorry well off topic.


Ah i missed this bit.

Several problems with this logic. The premise was 2022 team vs 1974 team. You think the 2022 team was stronger/better. 

Lets address first the comment about the coach. I would propose that if there was an exact clone of Graham Arnold in charge of the 1974 team they would have beaten Chile and and managed a draw with East Germany at least. So yes the Coach does matter but not in the way that you think supports your argument.
 
Secondly you again seem to be equating the lifestyle of a pro in 1974 vs an amateur in 1974 with the lifestyle of a pro in 2022 vs an amateur in 2022. As an example from later even than that '74 team, Socrates the Brazilian great used to smoke like a chimney and drink his weight in alcohol but still perform at the top level for a "Pro" of the time, so the weighting you put on "Pros" is ignoring the fact that this difference became more significant in later generations. 

Thirdly you think 16 in the world is too high for the Socceroos of 1974? So the number of qualifiers from Asia/OFC was how many in 1974? Thats right, it was only one! Would the 2022 Team have qualified on that basis?

Fourthly, you also suggest that the Australian team who qualified for a 16 team tournament would not have had a higher world ranking than the 2022 group as other higher ranked teams missed out? But teams like Italy, Colombia and Chile did not qualify for 2022? So the current Aus team were only ranked 38th pre world cup and even after their World Cup run they still sit at 27. Would the 1974 team not have been higher than 38? Remember we are talking about the strength of the side sent to the World Cup. Your point is that 1974 was worse in relative terms to the rest of the world than 2022?

I do not see it.


Previous versions

2 versions
Unknown editor edited February 06, 2023 10:40
coochiee
Ted Striker
coochiee
Australia's weakest WC team was 1974. All amateurs.
I'd say the 2022 squad personal were on a rough par with 2014 & 2018.
2006 was the Golden Generation and alot of those guys were still there in 2010.


Not sure if we can equate weakness or quality with professional vs amateur especially in 1974. The '74 Australian team still won home/away tie with Iran and a playoff with South Korea. It is true to say they were not as good as the players of today but relative to the rest of the world they were stronger. If we can note that there were only 16 teams in the 1974 World Cup and perhaps say that Australia was ranked 16th. Then that would be a stronger team vs the rest of the FIFA nations than the 2022 squad (The '74 Aus team also snagged a draw with Chile after going a man down). 

The 1974 Socceroos didn't score a goal in Germany. But that would have all been the fault of their coach, those amateurs not being able to bang in 10 goals against all those teams full of pros.

And not sure England, France or all the other teams that didn't qualify for that FIFA World Cup, would agree with a retrospective FIFA WR of 16 for the '74 Socceroos. Though they may have ranked higher than Zaire & Haiti who also qualified for that WC (their only ever apperances) to get some pastings.

Sorry well off topic.


Ah i missed this bit.

Several problems with this logic. The premise was 2022 team vs 1974 team. You think the 2022 team was stronger/better. 

Lets address first the comment about the coach. I would propose that if there was an exact clone of Graham Arnold in charge of the 1974 team they would have beaten Chile and and managed a draw with East Germany at least. So yes the Coach does matter but not in the way that you think supports your argument.
 
Secondly you again seem to be equating the lifestyle of a pro in 1974 vs an amateur in 1974 with the lifestyle of a pro in 2022 vs an amateur in 2022. As an example from later even than that '74 team, Socrates the Brazilian great used to smoke like a chimney and drink his weight in alcohol but still perform at the top level for a "Pro" of the time, so the weighting you put on "Pros" is ignoring the fact that this difference became more significant in later generations. 

Thirdly you think 16 in the world is too high for the Socceroos of 1974? So the number of qualifiers from Asia/OFC was how many in 1974? Thats right, it was only one! Would they 2022 Team qualified on that basis?

Fourthly, you also suggest that the Australian team who qualified for a 16 team tournament would not have had a higher world ranking than the 2022 group as other higher ranked teams missed out? But teams like Italy, Colombia and Chile did not qualify for 2022? So the current Aus team were only ranked 38th pre world cup and even after their World Cup run they still sit at 27. Would the 1974 team not have been higher than 38? Remember we are talking about the strength of the side sent to the World Cup. Your point is that 1974 was worse in relative terms to the rest of the world than 2022?

I do not see it.


Unknown editor edited February 06, 2023 10:40
coochiee
Ted Striker
coochiee
Australia's weakest WC team was 1974. All amateurs.
I'd say the 2022 squad personal were on a rough par with 2014 & 2018.
2006 was the Golden Generation and alot of those guys were still there in 2010.


Not sure if we can equate weakness or quality with professional vs amateur especially in 1974. The '74 Australian team still won home/away tie with Iran and a playoff with South Korea. It is true to say they were not as good as the players of today but relative to the rest of the world they were stronger. If we can note that there were only 16 teams in the 1974 World Cup and perhaps say that Australia was ranked 16th. Then that would be a stronger team vs the rest of the FIFA nations than the 2022 squad (The '74 Aus team also snagged a draw with Chile after going a man down). 

The 1974 Socceroos didn't score a goal in Germany. But that would have all been the fault of their coach, those amateurs not being able to bang in 10 goals against all those teams full of pros.

And not sure England, France or all the other teams that didn't qualify for that FIFA World Cup, would agree with a retrospective FIFA WR of 16 for the '74 Socceroos. Though they may have ranked higher than Zaire & Haiti who also qualified for that WC (their only ever apperances) to get some pastings.

Sorry well off topic.


Ah i missed this bit.

Several problems with this logic. The premise was 2022 team vs 1974 team. You think the 2022 team was stronger/better. 

Lets address first the comment about the coach. I would propose that if there was an exact clone of Graham Arnold in charge of the 1974 team they would have beaten Chile and and managed a draw with East Germany at least. So yes the Coach does matter but not in the way that you think supports your argument.
 
Secondly you again seem to be equating the lifestyle of a pro in 1974 vs an amateur in 1974 with the lifestyle of a pro in 2022 vs an amateur in 2022. As an example from later even than that '74 team, Socrates the Brazilian great used to smoke like a chimney and drink his weight in alcohol but still perform at the top level for a "Pro" of the time so the weighting you put on "Pros" is ignoring when this difference became more significant in later generations. 

Thirdly you think 16 in the world is too high for the Socceroos of 1974? So the number of qualifiers from Asia/OFC was how many in 1974? Thats right, it was only one! Would they 2022 Team qualified on that basis?

Fourthly, you also suggest that the Australian team who qualified for a 16 team tournament would not have had a higher world ranking than the 2022 group as other higher ranked teams missed out? But teams like Italy, Colombia and Chile did not qualify for 2022? So the current Aus team were only ranked 38th pre world cup and even after their World Cup run they still sit at 27. Would the 1974 team not have been higher than 38? Remember we are talking about the strength of the side sent to the World Cup. Your point is that 1974 was worse in relative terms to the rest of the world than 2022?

I do not see it.