What really happened in '82?

What really happened in '82?

Many around here have said repeatedly that we can't let what happened after Spain 82 happened again. My question - for someone who was 7 years old at the time and wasn't really paying attention - is, exactly how did the NZFA as it was at the time screw it up? What dumb decisions, precisely, were made, or what good decisions were not made, so that the mighty victory of that year was urinated up against a wall? Was it just clowns at the top levels of admin who screwed it up, or was it the clubs, or a combination of the two? Enquiring minds want to know.

The NZFA had watched the hockey federation stuff up after beating Australia in the Olympic final and said= we won't make the same mistake. They did, big time. They shafted the players and the supporters. Just ask any AW players from 1982 .

Essentially dropped the coach who got them through.  Got a bit snooty and asked for too much when a Dutch club wanted to sign our goalkeeper and did not build the structure to capitalise on the massive support for the game in 81 & 82.  Hardly played any internationals, so we became uncompetitive again.  Eventually 'frittered' the money away.

There was a gas shortage and a Flock of Seagulls.

Off topic, but apart from the haircuts AFOS were a pretty good band. Anyway... why did the NZFA have the power to dictate terms for van Hattum signing with a Dutch club? The modern NZF don't have that power, do they?

For me, '82 was all about breakdancing.

Post 82 there was a backlash against the really tight shorts. Flares made a come back. Hair was boofed up and the gels wore huge shoulder pads.

It was not an enjoyable time.

Err, they most certainly did not. Trousers had to be tapered to within an inch of their lives. If your trousers were straight, you'd be accused of wearing 'flares' and your life would be made a misery. I swear to God, i have no idea how some kids at my high school managed to get there trousers over their feet, they were so tapered. I burned with jealousy.

the NZFA should have capatalised that rugby had a bit of a bad name that year. People were still reeling from the violence of the Springbok tour of 81 and for the first time ever were actively discussing wether rubgy was as great as had always been naturaly assumed. People who had been anti-tour (or jst anti the violence spectators caused in Akld & P.Nth whn the games were canceled) were persuading their kids to play other sports. I remember at my school we gained a soccer team and lost 2 rugby teams

The key is going to be regular international games, and in particular, home  games. And im not talking Oceania opposition. If this doesnt happen, it might be another 28 years for us. The game will lose all its current profile without home games.

So how do we get international teams to want to come to NZ to play us. maybe that shd be what John Key's 300k . I thought the attendance at Bahrain and the last few Phoenix games was great until saw the pax for the Mexico game

It was PSV Eindhoven no less, as I've read in later years. How impressive would that have been to have the All Whites number one playing there back in the 80's? A pity it never came off. Also I think either Sumner or Woodin were within an inch of signing for Royal Antwerp in Belgium too, but that was thwarted by injury during a trial.

With regards to the All Whites playing more home games, it is difficult to attract teams to do the travelling but didn't NZF have problems even trying to break even when they hosted South Korea and Chile in the 90's?

" didn't NZF have problems even trying to break even when they hosted South Korea and Chile in the 90's?"

I don't know about that but we all know they'd have the same problem if held the game in Akld so that just leaves one city thats proved itself as willing to support it's heroes
stealthkiwi2010-03-18 21:47:27

You are too young to remember. The NZFA stuffed up Big time.

Well explain why instead of being patronising about it.

for this we need more money from sponsorship which will only happen if there is a major longterm surge in public support which will only happen if there is better local television coverage which will only happen if there is a general rise in the quality of football nationally which will only happen if there is more money from sponsorship which will only happen if...

LOL
you didn't mention mullets...

Yeah geography is our no.1 problem, but it needs to be done. Maybe the problem in the 90s was exactly that... it was the 90s. They should've had games scheduled for late 82, 83, basically as soon as possible, and continue with that.

Hopefully with a bit more money, a bit more interest from sponsors, and hopefully more funding etc from the government, NZF can make this happen. It helps for wellington that we have the phoenix to head out to, but we really need to have the interest there around the country. Which will mean internationals in Christchurch and (even though it pains me to say it...)... Auckland. And of course Wellington. And Im sure people would travel the length of the country to sell these out.

EDIT: Maybe one option could be to cash in on nations heading to Australia for games?
AJ132010-03-19 01:17:06

Other international teams of any note are not going to come here to play "friendlies". They have already got heavily congested international schedules because they belong to real confederations. Neither they or their players are interested in flying way down here. I doubt we can even be sure of getting all of our own top players to come back for a nothing friendly.

Marius Lacatus2010-03-19 12:44:08

So then how do we utilise this year's opputunity better than we did in 82? What can be done better

Win some games would be a start.

yes indeed.Much of the international football structure has a lot to do with it.
We need to look more to Asia for competition because Oceania is a tiny,tiny minnow thousands of kms from the other major confederations.
Asia is too big and Oceania too small. Join them together and then split the resultant mega-confederation more equably.

As I see it;

1.) We did have a decent batch of players left over from the 1982 team still playing and we had really good young skillful players still coming through. However, we just lost to Australia, despite good strong result against Taiwan and Israel and drew the first game 0-0 against Australia in the final group the lost game against Australia of 0-2 in Sydney took the wind of our sails and we caved in to Israel last 0-3 in Te Aviv even though he beat them 3-1 in the game before. The match against Australia was the important one.

In the next WCQ, winning against Tapei in both games, a win and a lost vs Australia and a lost and a draw vs Israel was more than enough to put us out.

By the WCQ for 1994, Israel & Tapei left to be replaced by Fiji and Vanuatu and by then Australia had strong team and we didn't improve much. Losing both matches vs Australia keep us in 2nd place.

The result was very much the same for the next WCQ, with PNG replacing Vanuatu and losing to Australia twice again with 0-3 & 2-0.

The next WCQ had a different format with two groups placing Australia in one group and NZ in the other group. NZ played Tahiti, Vanuatu and Cook islands beating them and faced a two leg matches against Australia, losing both of them. By then Australia had prove themselves as destroyers of the OFC thrashing everyone. Their 0-2 and 4-1 wins against NZ told us that they were in a different league.

Again in the WCQ for 2006, losing to Vanuatu 2-4 deny us a chance to face Australia and allowing Solomon Islands to have a go (but then got thrashed) after an easy draw to Australia (maniputing the table points) This gave Australia a breather to win the playoffs against Uruguay.

Australia was our stumbling block in all accounts. Even if we beat Australia, the playoffs against the 5th placed South Americans would have likely a mountain too high to climb.

2.) During this time, media focus on Rugby with the start of the Rugby World Cup in NZ and then elsewhere, took the public attention away. America's Cup publicity, the Warriors in and out of form were much stronger than what losing Kingz or Knights can muster.

3.) The failing sponsorship of the national football league because the Tabacco advertising was phased out by the health minister Helen Clark in the Labour and reduced funding smokefree for a few years afterwards was not enough to strengthen the playing standards. So with less infrastructure, less incentive for players and lower playing standard of which the majority of the AWs were still NZ-based.

4.)Losing Australia in a small OFC means a weak FIFA ranking and there was no club or international teams that wanted to play us.

5.) EPL started in the late 80s and other high competitive professional leagues meant there are more incentive of players in such league to stay in the Uk and Europe to earn the club money. Therefore clubs would capitalise on the local market first before deciding to lose money going offshore to a place like NZ. It is only recent times that the local market is saturated, that EPL teams want to capitise on fans overseas and go on tours after rebuilding their stadiums and looking for the top dollar.

6.) The Club vs Country debate meant that international teams weren't able to go too far away in the in-season making games against NZ less appealing. To counter that in recent times, FIFA created the international windows to allow national teams to call on players from any club.

In Summary;

1.) We sucked against Australia in the WCQ.
2.) Other sports had better media publicity and are doing better.
3.) A failed national league because the main sponsor being a Tabcco company was banned from advertising by the governament.
4.) Being 2nd in OFC means we have a weak FIFA ranking.
5.) Professional players broke the million pounds in the 80s and EPL broke away from English FA to create elite professionalism in clubs and everyone in Europe followed leading to changes in the european cup formats and pulling the best players around the world with dirty money. Thus increasing the playing standards of some and killing others in the process but further more, NZ was even more isolated by not being professional.
6.)Club vs Country debate, because of the new professional era, was stronger than normal as professionalism is uncapped in the process. The free market dominated.

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How to captialise?? (I'm keeping it real this time)

1.) Keep working on the US system for football scholarships for the non-british ancestor players, open more door at club academies in UK for the british ancestor players. Need to keep the player pathway, so more networking by anyone including NZF.

2.)Increase support Phoenix in A-League. Look for another A-league team in the South Island (a million+ people) based in Christchurch and then in Auckland (1.4 million+ people) to widen the NZ nationwide support for A-League outside Wellington and lower central north Island regions. Link the new A-League team in Christchurch with the New Everton club run Academy in Lincoln for development.

3.) We need to strengthen the NZFC with Academies around their regions.

4.) We need to provide better coverage of kiwi players in NZ and overseas.

5.) Take advantage of FIFA's international windows for the National Team.

6.) TV coverage of NZ age group teams in the World Tournaments.

7.) It would be great to be in AFC, but then OFC and AFC doesn't think so. So continue being stronger and thrash everyone in OFC as much as we can for qualifiers and start getting some decent warm up tours for the teams prior to tournament. A quality warmup tournament in NZ with solid ranked teams will be ideal. This needs funding.

8.) Continue the NZFC clubs in the O-league and then for CWC. If NZFC teams progress well in the CWC while adding a couple of NZ A-League teams, then we are quite a solid footballing nation.

[I expect A-League will be up there with K-league and J-League in quality and footballing standards in the future. I expect there will be australian players plying their trade in the K-league and J-league as well as vice versa. I think that AFC will be a bit more flexible with their foreign import number for the ACL and so allow more foreign exchanges within AFC rather than outside AFC. e.g. Song playing with Sydney atm will not be considered an import.]

In summary:

1.) A shared nationwide database of established NZ contacts with overseas groups to enhance networking between people.
2.) Big Owners wanting to support new A-League bids.
3.) Funding NZFC academies to be reshaped and expand and to increase coaching levels within.
4.) Regular show of Kiwi players activities here and overseas.
5.) Coverage of the All Whites games on free to air.
6.) TV coverage of NZ teams at world tournaments include some qualifiers to be familiar with team.
7.) Warm-up tours and tournaments are well covered by media.
8.) O-league free to air coverage for NZFC clubs at home.

JUST MORE OF EVERYTHING AND MORE MONEY FOR EVERYTHING . . . . and of course tell Australia to stay in AFC and stay away from us in OFC.

What happens if we are in AFC??

The last thing I want if we get into AFC and then all the media can't be bother to do coverage against some teams because they think we get thrashed as our football is ranked lower. Plus the media focusing on the lost money that NZF will be under pressure trying to foot it in AFC rather than what is on the field. Having OFC moaning and moving it's base to Fiji is a scary thought as well as it gets to be a sub-confederation status under FIFA again. Having half of AFC knacked off again when we secure one of the top four placing in AFC along Australia, Japan and Korea making Middle East countries thinking of having their own confederation just to secure some world cup placings. Then East Asia and Pacific confederation gets 3.5 world cup places and the West Asia gets 1.5 world cup places just to tick us off. If that Bin Mohammond (or whatever his name is) head of AFC becomes FIFA head, then it would be 2 places for West Asia and 3 for East Asia. . . . .

. . . . . Damn I really got off topic. Curse that question.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-football/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=10633264

So its looking like the money is going to be used two ways (after the players get their share)

1. Grass roots junior development
2. An endowment fund, which will generate $1 million in interest annually for NZF to spend.

Glading also went on to say this...

"There is a temptation to have them playing to keep them in the public eye but what we have learned in the past is that if we get the best players in to take on meaningless opposition, it doesn't do a lot.

"When we played New Caledonia and brought Ryan and the best players back, we pulled only 7500 [spectators to North Harbour Stadium]. I think it comes down to the quality of opposition than the quality of All Whites."

I see a fail in football again. I dont think we're ever going to do any good in Oceania. You need regular games for football to take off, but these games cant be against New Caledonia. FIFA need to step in and sort this sh*t out, we need some kind of merge with Asia or we're f**ked and footballs going nowhere.
We need to look at Australia. I think automatic Confederations Cup and Club World Cup spots are less important.
You can develop young talent all you want, but kids arent going to see the incentive in the long run without the All Whites playing. Two years until another game for the AWs? f**k that.

Well, they have the right idea to fund standardised programmes at the junior stage in first phase, second phase in youth football and third phase in senior football. To be honest, the national body has to start from the ground and then upwards to encourage and develop high skilled home-based players

However, I am not sure of the lack of games at the international front. The public can be demanding and we need to supply it.

I suppose that if we get another cash injection somewhere, then the interest from that can fund the money need for inviting quality opponents. Hopefully we will recover from something from the game at the gate-takings and actually get a profit from a full house. If we perform well at the World Cup, then I can't see how we wouldn't get good quality opponents for the next few years.

We could be a decent warm up opponent for some European team for their euros or even some Asian team for their Asian Cup games because we do have a vague similar style to the Anglo-saxon/ Northern European team with the physical statute.

I was referring to opponents from other Confederations not any OFC countries.

I know that it is not a given but the world is getting more global year by year and with the Confederation Cup to look at in 2013. There are AFC nations that would like to get some more practice against Australians, so we may be a nice option for those who like to seriously give Australia a run of for the money. It would be good if we get a couple of decent warm ups for the Confederation Cup. I think that we don't want the same mistakes as last year by playing ill prepared African countries on ankle breaking pitches beforehand although Italy game is very good. So there should be preparation for the couple years in building the side.

Ricki is looking at the young players already. And the potential of the young players are looking to be even better than this years lot as only Elliot, Vicelich and Ougton are the likely retirees by the next 2014.

I remember the crowd numbers in the couple of years after 1982 was very healthy and decent and this time round, the AWs are even more popular than the 1982 lot with the public. So I guess it remains to be seen. We did break crowd records and with the Phoenix showpiece being a good run up for the All Whites, its a factor that we didn't have before after the 82 World Cup. Something like that keeps the crowd numbers warmed.

Yep.  Fair call. 

Had a run in with Kevin Fallon.

Wilson.  Richard Wilson.

Yeah, I always wondered about this too. From memory, the No.1 goalkeeper was Richard Wilson. Anyway, according to a mate of mine, Sam Malcolmson claimed in a book he wrote a couple of years ago that Frank's old man flicked John Adshead $40,000 to play his son at the finals instead of Wilson. Maybe my mate was having me on (it HAS been known to happen before!).
Has anyone read the book and can clarify this for me?

That rumour and some about Big Sam suggests someone made a lot ofmoney out of that World CUp.

I have my doubts.

At one of the WC games at Mt Smart Keven Fallon had Richard Wilson up against the wall at half time. This came from an AW.(friend of mine) People in football at the time knew all about this.
The day before the Kuwait game Kevon Fallon had the team doing a road run up One Tree Hill- very smart. We all know the result the next day.