National League review and future

Tasman United v Wellington teams - the craft beer derby?

not that surprised at the new teams, would have liked Auckland United as they seemed to provide a big new market - but then Eastern Suburbs are obviously a lot more stable financially and that is important 

Only real shame is that Auckland United, Manawatu United and Heartland Wairarapa now all disappear from the Youth League, although none of them had been setting the league on fire they were providing a pathway for regions that will now no longer be represented (well except Auckland United)

'Nix will have two teams in NZ league? An ASBP team and a youth team?

They already do

I reckon there's a good bit of "regime change" in the change in fortunes of Auckland United. IIRC they were tied up with the Class of 82. Eastern Suburbs meanwhile seem to have hitched their wagon to the Andy Martin horse (donkey?). 

Only one winner there. 

Panhead, Baylands, Garage Project vs who??

Hop Federation, Townsends, Renaissance, Mussel Inn, Sprig & Fern, Dale's

I'm not sure about that - I think while Auckland United presented their case well (particularity in Enzo's blog) and the appointment of Hoani was a good move they have had massive turnover of both volunteers and players in their first two seasons and i don't think they have built much in the way of relationships with the clubs in their area apart from Mangere.

I didn't think there was much chance for success for them to be honest.

Rich area/important people/connections verses poor area (people on drugs) may have been a factor?

 v 

Wellington bench:

Tuatara

Panhead

Tasman bench:

Sprig & Fern

Golden Bear

Monkey Wizard (Riwaka)

Baylands must be the coaches son

It's changed hands Bruce. It's now Hop Federation. (was about 3-4 years ago)

I think Tasman was a no brainer .

Suburbs got the cash can't see anybody watching them though they will be like Waitak.

Auckland utd bit of a shambles really there youth league team are average and have to inc average ( crap) players

North shore a div 1 and div 2 team really nobody was behind them at all.

Hamilton deserve a team.. I'm sure the federation will support them

Wellington bench could also include Funk Estate, Kereru, Wild & Wooly, Timana & Black Dog

Tasman Bench could also include Totara, Pink Elephant, Moa, Stoke, Bays, Founders and youth teamers Eddyline & Horse box (no idea what they are like as they have only opened in the last year)

Tasman also has all the Hops (suppose that's a bit like owning the ball!)

Why, and how do you think they'd sustain a Northern League side as well?

Assuming these clubs are both operating on the premise that their own players are good enough to play National League (and a good chunk if not most already are...) - where would the players come from to play Northern League, and Premier Division at that.

I'd be very surprised if either of their current reserve sides were good enough to do so. And it takes a lot to surprise me.

Unless both clubs become Unicron-esque (planet[club]-eating planet[/robot...]) and just drag every decent player from surrounding clubs into what would now be their reserve team in Northern Prem, with those players' ambition being to infiltrate from within - but that wouldn't be 'for the good of the game' and could ultimately see them shrinking their captive audience.

i HOPE that Wanderers realise they can just as well recruit from Melville/Ngaruawahia/Claudelands (and Suburbs from Ellerslie/Fencibles) as themselves, rather than just pilfering their best 3 or 4 players to put together a Northern Prem side.

And likewise, I'd hope the players wouldn't go...

While Mussel Inn is a keeper, in my experience it is generally more involved in scoring.

Thoughts on Wairarapa and Wests missing out? Along with Team Welly, Wellington Phoenix and the Hamilvegas Wanderers, just too many DUBYA names for one league?

Need to upgrade the the ASB W-League now.

Who the bloody hell are you, John Key?!? I don't know exactly what goes up their noses at Remuera pool parties, but it ain't baking soda.

Still: damn, the Sandringham vs. Kohimarama derby will be a tasty fixture, I'll definitely get along to that.

Hi Ryan, a lot of the players have been doing winter/summer/winter etc for a number of years now (partly because the summer league by itself has lacked critical mass).

The real test will come with the expansion to a 30-game national league season when the overlap will become unavoidable not just in terms of player resources but in terms of facilities (matchday pitches, midweek training, clubrooms etc).

The classic pattern from national league history has not been so much who the national league entity attracts in such an environment, but who the lesser clubs choose to cherry-pick off.

With far lesser cost structures northern league clubs are well placed to target a top player and offer him a wedge that the club with big national league costs could not match.

Typically this would occur in the latter part of the national league season, particularly if the summer campaign had not been overly successful.

For instance, one of the most talked-about instances in Waikato history was Hoani Edwards favouring lowly Oratia's pre-season  over struggling Melville United in the national league in early 1998.

It would have been before your time, but when Melville were competing in the summer league, their concurrent winter operations were a disaster.

Wanderers believe they have the set-up to avoid this. 

We can only wish them well because it will bring some tough challenges. Either way, they should be admired for their readiness to take on these challenges, particularly in an environment where WaiBop had been desperately looking for an escape route from national league responsibilities, and the funding landscape is undergoing significant change (and may impact significantly in the Waikato in mid-2016). 

PS, was anyone else surprised about the composition of the national league review panel... ?

I'd give Roger Wilkinson a pass, with his heritage with Napier City Rovers and Waikato United, and possibly Dougal McGowan with previous work on national league reviews. But otherwise, not a lot of familiarity, it would seem, with what is required to make a national league entity tick.

Peter O'leary and Kristy Hill... for all their refereeing and women's coaching background... that's not a huge breadth of significance for understanding what makes a national league entity hum.

And nobody with direct administrative experience in running a national league club... that was the first thing that struck me.

when is a 30 game season planned Bruce?

A 10-team, 30-round league is proposed for 2018-19, according to the compettion review documents.

Not surprised by Rapa. They have the funder (who knows how long term that would be), and now the facilities. But their player base is extremely small and other teams would have to fly into Palmerton North and drive through the gorge to get there.

Endeavour was re-laid for FIFA U20 training, so decent training pitch there as well. As to catchment area, the academy attracts players from all over the country. Ex Ole alumni still playing in their 20s would be a decent sort of potential player list too.

... or fly to Wellington and drive over the rimutakas.  It's about a 90 minute drive from both locations, and 2 of the teams don't even need to do the initial fly part.

I'm actually really gutted, I was hoping the Rapa would make it in.  Especially after doing up our pitch.

double post

Back in 2003, Porirua Park was the only club home ground (from applicants) which met the strict national league criteria (as opposed to Miramar's Centennial Park and Hutt's Bell Park) in Wellington

Here are some memorable quotes from Wests Dave Wilson, as quoted in The National League Debates

May 2003:

“A shot that goes over the bar at a national league game is more likely to hit a seagull than a spectator. We could all kid ourselves that the sport is progressing but in fact the national league we’ve got today is nowhere near as good as it was 15 years ago. I’d be very interested in putting a business group together (for a Porirua-based Wellington-franchise) . . . we need to upgrade what we’re doing and get the business community supporting the game because the product is so much better.”

 Feb 2004: 

“If your product is good, people will come . . . Ole Madrids matches will be festivals... this is about putting soccer into the next 50 years because we’ve had such a mundane national league which we’ve basically tolerated. We have to put on entertainment, not just soccer.”

I have a copy of Western Suburbs financial accounts for year end 31-12-2013. They show a net profit of $3,800 and the balance sheet shows net assets $37. This is  hardly strong enough to warrant inclusion on financial performance

Yeah but they have a tie in with Ole, which I imagine has an income stream to use.

2300 juniors. Should make parental attendance at home ASB matches compulsory.

A key criterion for selection to the league would be financial stability so an applicant showing equity of $37 is going to make it easy for rejection.

What are other clubs like?

I hope you aren't club treasurer

Cheers Bruce - good to know at least one person's reading my thoughts!

Very surprised at O'Leary on the panel - might as well have Chris Kerr! (hi Chris)

Very hard to imagine the feedback being based on anything other than what their side behaves like on the field...

And four is very few - I'd have had yourself, Alan Jones, Barry Hughes, Bob Patterson, Ivan Vuksić, Rex Dawkins, even Kevin Fallon (as a minority) before probably all of them bar Roger.

In terms of the overlap, I'm more thinking Wanderers and Suburbs shouldn't be ALLOWED to have a team in both - they've basically requested to get out of it anyhow - as a priority at least.

And then the door opens for North Shore and Tauranga (who are both well and truly left out in the cold now and desperately want to be there) to come on in...

Hi Ryan,

I actually think Roger would have been very good for a position such as that. 

At his peak Roger's influence and hands-on knowledge extended well beyond coaching, he was integral to the formation of Waikato United and to Napier's introduction to the national league. He was often the prime lobbyist, facilitator, salesman, and did a lot of fundraising around national league in the pre-grants era.

I recall him schooling me in the early 1990s about the commerical imperatives around the national league and best methods of work.

Allan Jones has been a superb consultant to various league entities, and a mine of information, and can only assume that he felt conflicted, because I can't imagine him not being asked, given his breadth of significance and experience.

Let Chris Kerr concentrate on his reffing (he did a bloody good job on the HB-Phoenix match, yes?)

On another tack, haven't heard any squeals of complaint so far - certainly not the judicial review and high court threats of previous league selection processes.

You should have been in that review panel Bruce

When I play Eastern Suburbs teams, the parade of clearly well-bred, tall, leggy blonde girls makes me refer to them as "the Hitler Youth XI*", but if you can tear Mumsy and Popsy away from the bach at Leigh, or shopping trips to Sydney or Tokyo, they will certainly turn up in their Remuera Tractors. The only thing is that you'd have to provide a "Bollinger and canapés" food truck. Craft beer and pulled pork sarnies won't cut it.

* Yes, I know the Hitler Youth was boys, but no-one would have got "Bund der Deutscher Mädel XI".

That's a lovely monologue, Doloras. Vivid.