Fair enuff its not like it matters ...the NZFC is about as much of a joke as it can be ...
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uncloz, I'm having a sh*t day, so sorry if this comes across as a bit abrupt, but I can only assume that you're referring to the thread of yours that I deleted.
If that assumption is correct then you're a f**king numpty.
I PM'd you and explained that, while it sounded as if you had an interesting point to make, your post was completely unintelligible, so nobody could actually tell what the f**k it was you were trying to get at anyway.
Now if you're too stupid to work that out and repost, and would rather whinge and moan about being censored, then so be it, but as far as I'm concerned you can f**k off back into your box.
/rant.
Edit - to remove c word and save myself some fine money at Champs.
Smithy2008-11-28 14:53:56Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I came with a box?
1) no no probs with yr god complex...should really have relabelled this post as it isnt about that..
Im just utterly ,fouly annoyed at the cretins who run the nzfc..and the small whining cretins (at certain clubs)who blame their own shortcomings on someone /something else it disturbs me that lowest common denominator is now our aim ... this really should be the last season under these idiots..then they can do great things for womens football *
2 ) yes a little
*how many countries play womens football ?
sorry about yr day....
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Don't disagree. Sorry for massive rant earlier.
You had a good story that was worth getting out there...
You had a good story that was worth getting out there...
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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*how many countries play womens football ?
150, Uncloz, according to the latest FIFA rankings, in which NZ is ranked 24th.
I suspect that if NZ men's football ever ranks that highly, three things will have happened prior to same - hell will have frozen over; hell will have thawed out after having frozen over; every single person on this forum will have found a 22 carat gold watch in their toilet cistern.
I agree with you that NZF should relieve themselves of the burden that is the NZFC. But that's only a symptom of the wider problem.
Like it or not, the men's game in this country has been in decline for a number of years now, to the extent where the overall quality of football produced is mediocre at best.
Yet we continue to pour resources into it, some of which, at club level in particular, end up in the pockets of players who simply aren't good enough to merit being paid one cent, never mind the sums they are reportedly and actually paid.
If they were good enough to merit these sums, why isn't the quality of play that is produced far better than it is? What's the return on this "investment"? It's not bums on seats, that's for sure.
(And I include in this the significant percentage of funds which the All Whites will receive from NZF out of the funds the national body will receive from FIFA for their involvement in the Confed. Cup Finals. While they should receive some form of recompense for their achievement, the players' portion should be 15%, 20% at the very most, for mine. Anything beyond that ... can the game afford it?)
The endeavours of the U17s and U20s at their respective Women's World Cup Finals, and the Football Ferns before them at August's Olympics, have provided ample evidence that the national body needs to redirect its resources into channels from which the game as a whole can benefit.
We are so close to breaking through the glass ceiling that is reaching the knockout stages of FIFA Finals at all levels of the women's game on the international stage. The chaps are nowhere near the same level.
Indeed, such is the development of the men's game throughout Oceania, in tandem with its decline in this country, that it's only a matter of time before an island nation edges out NZ to qualify for a FIFA Finals. It may even happen next month, at the U20s qualifiers in Tahiti, or next March in Fiji, at the U17s qualifiers.
You can't say we haven't had warning shots fired across our bows already - witness Fiji last week, and that infamous Vanuatu result a couple of years ago. When it happens, Uncloz, watch the crap hit the fan big-time - your concerns re the NZFC will pale in comparison.
Cheers,
JR
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Excellent post JR.
I've been lamenting for years the amount of money that goes into the pockets of very, very poor men players in this country. If you actually stop and think of the crap players that have milked the game over the years (think Stiles, Cossey etc etc here in the north) it really grates.
But the players have taken it because the clubs have paid it. So are they to blame? Partially, but the real problem rests with the clueless clots on huge ego trips in their own little fish-tanks that are in charge of clubs. Until we rid ourselves of these self-serving twats then the whole game will continue to schelp itself from one pile of poo to the next.
The women's scene, on the other hand, is a breath of fresh air. It seems from what I hear that enjoyment is the reason for their dedication, not the fact that they are being paid.
JR, you told me a little while back about your reasons for putting so much time into the ladies game, and I've seen for myself why in the last few months. Good on you, but I'm still not ready to throw all my eggs into that basket yet. I do still harbour hope for the men's game to learn lessons from what this country has just seen via the two recent women's tournaments.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.
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To get more quality senior mens footballers in the NZFC, we have to deliver quality coaching to the junior to youth grades by the volumes. The only players that get quality coaching will be the ones being early identified at junior and youth but that means only get certain type of players and forgets the late developers.
The late developers accounts for more than 60-80% of the top teams and that what kills the overall quality of the league. By the time they hit their peak, their career would be already over and they would not even be considered for national duties as it takes some time to let them take the step up. These people need to have access to top notch coaching at a early age despite having not an identification as a potential elite player. Without the worse player pushing/driving the best player to improve, the quality of our national team that is based on NZFC will never improve nor will it makes the NZFC players to be capable as good as their oversea counterparts. The NZFC needs to improve such to the extent that oversea players will return back to a strong enough level and that any NZFC players will considered strong enough to complete in the other competitive leagues overseas. It then comes back to the coaching level not just at the NZFC level but at the grassroot and youth level. Parents can only go so far by themselves, they need at least a committed director of coaching to oversee their coaching and assess their coaching sessions. There is not much of that coaching feedback in the football community. Each winter club should have that junior/youth director of coaching position, but they don't and there is not enough of that going about.
More quality coaching accessible and available for more peoples at any age is need. I know it is a cost thing, but that is where the best long term return of money will come from. Without the players at competitive quality, there will be hardly any interest for sponsorship and TV Rights etc for the NZFC which suppose to be catering for the elite.
Again, I am an advocate for professionalism in soccer. Professionalism has a large hand in this if it ever has a chance to develop well over a few decades. Professionalism in clubs is the best way to recycle the money back to the grassroots and youth because it will be the club's professional future at stake.
I know that if professionalism (outside of A-League) has a chance, we would have to stumble our way through quite a lot for the first couple of decades before we reap what we sow. Look at the Warriors, it has taken them over ten years before it was translated into a successful national team this year.
I like to think that NZFC is able to stand on it's two feet first, but standing on it's two feet is not enough. After having a reasonable amateur competition, there is a need to step into professionalism. There must be a partnership in the running of the league between the NZFC clubs (with NZF only as mediator and overseer).
The NZFC clubs has a good idea of their needs and will know when they are capable in making the step up into professionalism whereas the NZF will not have that close enough understanding of when it the right time since they are a bit on the outer as national body administration and not part of the club system pre se. So that is the reason why I would prefer that the NZFC be run by the NZFC clubs with NZF as an independent mediator (because it will need to be one).
Money should be going towards improving the coaching and supporting them to improve the players standard as well as stepping up the professional game.
Quality players are need and having more of them increases the competitiveness. We should have young and new players coming in every year that is pushing and increasing the player's depth such that they are able to replace any retiree quickly. A typical example would be NZ Rugby and the depth and quality of focused coaching and knowledge they have.AllWhitebelievr2008-11-29 18:31:49
The late developers accounts for more than 60-80% of the top teams and that what kills the overall quality of the league. By the time they hit their peak, their career would be already over and they would not even be considered for national duties as it takes some time to let them take the step up. These people need to have access to top notch coaching at a early age despite having not an identification as a potential elite player. Without the worse player pushing/driving the best player to improve, the quality of our national team that is based on NZFC will never improve nor will it makes the NZFC players to be capable as good as their oversea counterparts. The NZFC needs to improve such to the extent that oversea players will return back to a strong enough level and that any NZFC players will considered strong enough to complete in the other competitive leagues overseas. It then comes back to the coaching level not just at the NZFC level but at the grassroot and youth level. Parents can only go so far by themselves, they need at least a committed director of coaching to oversee their coaching and assess their coaching sessions. There is not much of that coaching feedback in the football community. Each winter club should have that junior/youth director of coaching position, but they don't and there is not enough of that going about.
More quality coaching accessible and available for more peoples at any age is need. I know it is a cost thing, but that is where the best long term return of money will come from. Without the players at competitive quality, there will be hardly any interest for sponsorship and TV Rights etc for the NZFC which suppose to be catering for the elite.
Again, I am an advocate for professionalism in soccer. Professionalism has a large hand in this if it ever has a chance to develop well over a few decades. Professionalism in clubs is the best way to recycle the money back to the grassroots and youth because it will be the club's professional future at stake.
I know that if professionalism (outside of A-League) has a chance, we would have to stumble our way through quite a lot for the first couple of decades before we reap what we sow. Look at the Warriors, it has taken them over ten years before it was translated into a successful national team this year.
I like to think that NZFC is able to stand on it's two feet first, but standing on it's two feet is not enough. After having a reasonable amateur competition, there is a need to step into professionalism. There must be a partnership in the running of the league between the NZFC clubs (with NZF only as mediator and overseer).
The NZFC clubs has a good idea of their needs and will know when they are capable in making the step up into professionalism whereas the NZF will not have that close enough understanding of when it the right time since they are a bit on the outer as national body administration and not part of the club system pre se. So that is the reason why I would prefer that the NZFC be run by the NZFC clubs with NZF as an independent mediator (because it will need to be one).
Money should be going towards improving the coaching and supporting them to improve the players standard as well as stepping up the professional game.
Quality players are need and having more of them increases the competitiveness. We should have young and new players coming in every year that is pushing and increasing the player's depth such that they are able to replace any retiree quickly. A typical example would be NZ Rugby and the depth and quality of focused coaching and knowledge they have.AllWhitebelievr2008-11-29 18:31:49
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Don't worry Loz they deleted my thread too 
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The only time a post will be deleted without notifying the poster is if it is so full of stoopid it has no value.
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And around this place, stoopid comes at ya thick and fast in a neverending form of shapes and flavours.....
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The endeavours of the U17s and U20s at their respective Women's World Cup Finals, and the Football Ferns before them at August's Olympics, have provided ample evidence that the national body needs to redirect its resources into channels from which the game as a whole can benefit.
We are so close to breaking through the glass ceiling that is reaching the knockout stages of FIFA Finals at all levels of the women's game on the international stage. The chaps are nowhere near the same level.
Indeed, such is the development of the men's game throughout Oceania, in tandem with its decline in this country, that it's only a matter of time before an island nation edges out NZ to qualify for a FIFA Finals. It may even happen next month, at the U20s qualifiers in Tahiti, or next March in Fiji, at the U17s qualifiers.
I posted the above on Nov 29.
In light of events which have taken place over the last 36 hours or so (SPARC and the U20s results), I just want to put on record the fact that I'm not clairvoyant, or prescient, or a fortune teller, or read tea leaves, or anything of that nature.
If I were any of those things, why is it the Lotto numbers I select each week never materialise? 
Cheers,
JR
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It's all well and good to suppor tthe women's game but the fact is I really don't care about women's football and I really don't want to watch it! Because the football is average. Get rid of the fatuous comparisons, it's just not that interesting. It's easy to say that there are 150 countries who play and that we're 24th but the majority of people don't care. It is a minority sport in most of those countries. Just becuase we're doing ok doesn't mean we shoud be throwing all of our eggs into that basket.
JR, our men's side are 180 minutes away from qualifying for the senior men's World Cup. That will always be a far greater achievement than any in the women's game where in Oceania we have zero competition for women.
Doesn't the fact that our complete and utter amateur women can compete on the world stage with all but the very bets say something about the overall level of quality? james dean2008-12-17 22:15:28
JR, our men's side are 180 minutes away from qualifying for the senior men's World Cup. That will always be a far greater achievement than any in the women's game where in Oceania we have zero competition for women.
Doesn't the fact that our complete and utter amateur women can compete on the world stage with all but the very bets say something about the overall level of quality? james dean2008-12-17 22:15:28
Normo's coming home
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I have to somewhat agree with James Dean. The womens game does not interest me in the slightest.
The womens game reminds me somewhat of kids football where they are at that age where they don't know about diving or back chat or one footed studs up clangers 25 yards out and just play, but not overly well.
HOWEVER ignoring rankings, they should have gone to their tournaments and gotten spanked, and didn't. That says something.
Personally I perfer the mens game because they are more (individually) skillful. Problem is they never get to really show those skills because if they ain't getting hacked, they are falling over and arguing.
The womens game reminds me somewhat of kids football where they are at that age where they don't know about diving or back chat or one footed studs up clangers 25 yards out and just play, but not overly well.
HOWEVER ignoring rankings, they should have gone to their tournaments and gotten spanked, and didn't. That says something.
Personally I perfer the mens game because they are more (individually) skillful. Problem is they never get to really show those skills because if they ain't getting hacked, they are falling over and arguing.
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That's your prerogative, Mr Dean. The fact is, others do care about women's football, and your 'judge and jury' approach to the issue is inconsequential / insignificant in their eyes, just as their footballing preference is of scant interest to you.
Re your comment that "the football is average". I'll taken average any day of the week, given the overall standard and quality of NZ men's football at present is, for mine, mediocre at best. What's more, it has been for a wee while, and we're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.
Justification? We can't ignore the fact that we can no longer regularly overcome the island nations' line-ups at senior and age-grade levels (e.g. 0-2 Fiji, 1-2 Tahiti) with squads which are virtually entirely NZ-based (i.e. no players called back from abroad to aid the cause).
Less than a generation ago, such a situation would have been considered preposterous, yet I'm sorry to say it's our reality in late 2008. Why all this talk about joining Asia, when our very foundations aren't as rock-solid as they once were? Surely we need to address and rectify the latter matter long before we look to follow Australia's lead in switching confederations.
Suffice to say, we'll have to agree to disagree on a number of the other points you've mentioned - you won't change my stance, nor I yours, so nothing's to be gained from debating matters. It's the old irresistible force v. immovable object situation.
Don't think I'm not well aware that the AWs are three hours away from SA 2010, either. And like all-comers, I hope they realise that objective. But as you said above, "just because we're doing OK doesn't mean we should be throwing all of our eggs into that basket".
For mine, World Cup Finals qualification is something about which you need to be practical, objective and realistic, and treat and regard as a bonus. There's little point getting prematurely excited, and allowing expectations to run riot, because when those hopes aren't sustained, that empty feeling afterwards is damn hard to shake off ...
Witness Australia bombing out in that play-off v. Iran under Terry Venables' stewardship as an example. I'm sure we were all very sympathetic towards our West Island brethren for the rest of that week ... NOT!!! 
Meantime, I'm celebrating the fact that, having spent 21 years following and reporting on the efforts of NZ's female footballing fraternity, often as their lone media outlet, I've finally seen the women's game in this country afforded the recognition by SPARC and the mainstream media outlets that I've long known the girls have fully merited - they richly deserve this most public of acknowledgements, make no mistake.
Even today, the NZ Herald's Chris Rattue, who, until recently, I'm sure had never written a word about nor even watched women's soccer, came out singing its praises - refer here:
"Women's soccer, in particular, is the most seriously under-mined sporting goldfield in this land" ... a very subtle turn of phrase, that, and one I can well vouch for! 
Cheers,
JR
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You know what JD, I'd have agreed with you 100% a few months ago. Women's World Cup here was very good though. Not top class football, to be sure, but top class entertainment.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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