National League / OCL

Chatham Cup Restructure with ASBP Teams Included

50 replies · 11,445 views
about 12 years ago
Marto wrote:
Napier Phoenix wrote:

ASB franchises are designed for the best winter league players to join forces and compete at a higher level. I'd prefer to call them teams, rather than clubs in the true sense of the word. The chatham Cup is an historical and proud competition for all clubs in NZ and I don't think ASB franchises [or the Phoenix] should be playing in it.



Fair enough, I just don't see why ASBP teams who as others have said are basically rep teams can play in the OCL when the other sides are from clubs.  I can't think of any other equivalent in world football. Even in rugby its only the southern hemisphere sides that are franchise based (Super Rugby).

So are the Wellington Phoenix not a franchise then rather than a club?
Whats the difference between a club and a franchise in your opinion then?
The whole A-League is franchise based as is the MLS amongst others with no promotion or relegation.

Do you know what nemesis means

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about 12 years ago

I also think ACFC is more of a club than a franchise as it's essentially a spin-off from Central United. The same people organize both and many City players turn out for Central in the winter league. The same is probably true at Waitakere. Obviously HBU, CU and WaiBop are more like franchises with players from different local clubs, but isn't TW essentially Miramar Rangers these days?

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about 12 years ago
Aces wrote:
Marto wrote:
Napier Phoenix wrote:

ASB franchises are designed for the best winter league players to join forces and compete at a higher level. I'd prefer to call them teams, rather than clubs in the true sense of the word. The chatham Cup is an historical and proud competition for all clubs in NZ and I don't think ASB franchises [or the Phoenix] should be playing in it.



Fair enough, I just don't see why ASBP teams who as others have said are basically rep teams can play in the OCL when the other sides are from clubs.  I can't think of any other equivalent in world football. Even in rugby its only the southern hemisphere sides that are franchise based (Super Rugby).


So are the Wellington Phoenix not a franchise then rather than a club?

Whats the difference between a club and a franchise in your opinion then?

The whole A-League is franchise based as is the MLS amongst others with no promotion or relegation.


All pro teams, not just the MLS teams in the US and Canada and all registered Australian sides are/will be able to play in their FAs Cup competition whether they are franchises, rep sides or clubs. While not all of NZs football teams can play in the nation's premier cup competition.
 That was my original point. I don't care if they are Rep (Waibop), Franchise (Waitakere) or Club (Central / ACFC).
As far as I've seen NZ is unique in this regard for better or worse.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
Marto wrote:
Aces wrote:
Marto wrote:
Napier Phoenix wrote:

ASB franchises are designed for the best winter league players to join forces and compete at a higher level. I'd prefer to call them teams, rather than clubs in the true sense of the word. The chatham Cup is an historical and proud competition for all clubs in NZ and I don't think ASB franchises [or the Phoenix] should be playing in it.



Fair enough, I just don't see why ASBP teams who as others have said are basically rep teams can play in the OCL when the other sides are from clubs.  I can't think of any other equivalent in world football. Even in rugby its only the southern hemisphere sides that are franchise based (Super Rugby).


So are the Wellington Phoenix not a franchise then rather than a club?

Whats the difference between a club and a franchise in your opinion then?

The whole A-League is franchise based as is the MLS amongst others with no promotion or relegation.


All pro teams, not just the MLS teams in the US and Canada and all registered Australian sides are/will be able to play in their FAs Cup competition whether they are franchises, rep sides or clubs. While not all of NZs football teams can play in the nation's premier cup competition.

 That was my original point. I don't care if they are Rep (Waibop), Franchise (Waitakere) or Club (Central / ACFC).

As far as I've seen NZ is unique in this regard for better or worse.

IMO NZ is also very peculiar in having 3 diff senior football threads - A-League; ASB; club leagues - with absolutely no connectivity between them. Strictly verboten in fact. Yet in junior footie boys and girls are allowed to play against each other, and even play together in the same team!

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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about 12 years ago
Bluemagic wrote:

I also think ACFC is more of a club than a franchise as it's essentially a spin-off from Central United. The same people organize both and many City players turn out for Central in the winter league. The same is probably true at Waitakere. Obviously HBU, CU and WaiBop are more like franchises with players from different local clubs, but isn't TW essentially Miramar Rangers these days?

oops - I mentioned this last year somewhere in the Northern League thread or chatham cup thread and was SLAMMED by fans of ACFC and Central - actually come to think of it they were fans of both, or since they are the same.. oh now I am confused :-)

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about 12 years ago
chopah wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:

I also think ACFC is more of a club than a franchise as it's essentially a spin-off from Central United. The same people organize both and many City players turn out for Central in the winter league. The same is probably true at Waitakere. Obviously HBU, CU and WaiBop are more like franchises with players from different local clubs, but isn't TW essentially Miramar Rangers these days?

oops - I mentioned this last year somewhere in the Northern League thread or chatham cup thread and was SLAMMED by fans of ACFC and Central - actually come to think of it they were fans of both, or since they are the same.. oh now I am confused :-)

Not. Some of the noisier ACFC fans have never been to a Central NRL game. They have their own winter clubs to support.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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about 12 years ago
Jerzy Merino wrote:
chopah wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:

I also think ACFC is more of a club than a franchise as it's essentially a spin-off from Central United. The same people organize both and many City players turn out for Central in the winter league. The same is probably true at Waitakere. Obviously HBU, CU and WaiBop are more like franchises with players from different local clubs, but isn't TW essentially Miramar Rangers these days?

oops - I mentioned this last year somewhere in the Northern League thread or chatham cup thread and was SLAMMED by fans of ACFC and Central - actually come to think of it they were fans of both, or since they are the same.. oh now I am confused :-)

Not. Some of the noisier ACFC fans have never been to a Central NRL game. They have their own winter clubs to support.


Which winter clubs would those be?
Never see  any of those boys at NL games

Do you know what nemesis means

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about 12 years ago


North Shore NPL and NPL2 clubs. Never go there myself.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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about 12 years ago

Kind of follow Metro FC but rarely, if ever, go to a senior game.

Auckland City FC

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about 12 years ago

Ok. So a majority of us on here go to club games, ASBP games, Phoenix games. You just go to ACFC, yet act like you're the saviours and ultimate supporters of football in nz, and that we aren't football fans and are trying to bring football in nz down etc. 

Makes sense. 


Allegedly

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
Jeff Vader wrote:
Royz wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Royz wrote:
TopLeft07 wrote:

Off the top of my head..

Miramar Rangers
Naper City Rovers
Wairarapa United
Central United
Waitakare City
Cashmere Technical

Would all have a big overlap of players from summer/winter and would most likely oppose given most of them having a strong history in the cup.

The idea makes no sense at all to me.

Seeing that both the ASB prem and C/Cup are for amateur clubs/franchise. Then why does the the Chatham Cup winner not get a O-League birth?.


Are you joking?

No, There both amateur competition's?, with amateur sides. Why not?.

You are kidding right? With the examples listed? Have you thought this through. What happens if Central win and ACFC win? You can't have players playing for both sides.

Do not confuse the sumer FRANCHISE competition and the winter CLUB competition. One feeds into the other (theoretically)

And if a side not associated with a Franchise wins and WANTS OCL because lets face it they beat the best club side in NZ with what you just said "Has players from ASB" So then what holds the point of saying ASB final winner is more elite then the Chatham Cup winner?  

1) The comps have/use the same players.

2)  There both Amateur comps.

3) If a club that had no ASB players in it that won the C/Cup why shouldn't they be aloud to play OCL - They could and justifiably use the sports commission under FIFA rules to be allocated a place(Since the Chatham cup is recognised under NZF/FIFA) then why not.

I get the whole winter/summer league thing - Both predicable - Both going nowhere fast. However if a Chatham cup winner wanted OCL i cant see why is shouldnt be able to get it. 

Mr Positive

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