Club based National League - who could step up?
Permalink
Permalink
obviously, this is purely hypothetical, but if the national league were to become a club based competition, with promotion and relegation in place at the end of season one, who do you think could step up to be an 'inaugural' participant?
reg222008-10-19 13:03:41
for me, i believe that auckland city (as either central or auckland city), waitakere, and hawkes bay (as napier city rovers) could definitely handle it.
but who else?
would mount wellington re-emerge? are any of the current dominant northen league clubs equipped to step up? what would happen in christchurch and dunedin? could miramar recapture their glory days prior to franchise footy? would dave wilson re-ignite his passion for western suburbs and make them viable?
Permalink
Permalink
I'd prob have to say no for Wharfies.
Are you a fan of a club based national comp then Reg?
Founder
Permalink
Permalink
ECB could probably make the step up, would just depend on how they were run off the pitch. Same with Dunedin Tech.
Who would make the cut from Welly? I'm thinking Miramar but there's gotta be more than them.
Who would make the cut from Welly? I'm thinking Miramar but there's gotta be more than them.
Three for me, and two for them.
Permalink
Permalink
i don't really know mike.
i understand why they went to franchises, but i regret the removal of the competitive fire from under the country's top clubs.
our top club level currently contains over 40 teams throughout the country and they are competing at the third tier of our sport. so, where's the incentive for clubs? witness the voluntary demise of uni-mount.
the sport is heavily club based, so removing the competitive fire risks dropping the standard and so it goes.
of course, i understand the concept of a unified approach and see that it has it's potential merits as well.
reg222008-10-19 13:19:05
Permalink
Permalink
ECB could probably make the step up, would just depend on how they were run off the pitch. Same with Dunedin Tech.
Who would make the cut from Welly? I'm thinking Miramar but there's gotta be more than them.
Who would make the cut from Welly? I'm thinking Miramar but there's gotta be more than them.
yeah, i reckon miramar would be the best equipped both on and off the pitch. lower hutt have done it before in the old north/south island league and probably have the ability to step up. wests too if they take it seriously. that would also give the city a good geographic spread.
the hardest thing would be to choose the founding teams. eventually those who are strongest will step up. i'd relegate two teams from a twelve team league in seasons one and two just to make sure. we'd eventually find the best via attrition and if places like gisborne wanted to step up, they'd have the opportunity via on-firled success.
Permalink
Permalink
i like the franchise concept. TW has been great in my opinion -both for supporters and players. Far better than having Mar or Hutt playing at the top level.
Obviously it's flawed though - as its all gone to pot. NZF is guilty. If it was working properly there would be a proper league sponsor.
Founder
Permalink
Permalink
yeah, you're right. there are problems at the top and good reason for the franchises to ask to run the thing themselves.
i've also enjoyed watching TW better than the 'mar in days of old.
anyway, back on subject, hypothetically, who could step up?
reg222008-10-19 13:40:57
Permalink
Permalink
Sorry, realise I'm not Feverish - but I'm definitely on the club buzz.
I think leave the 'franchises' existing - if they want to remain - but if they want to change their names back, let them.
We've got almost literally nothing to lose, as a 'code', in New Zealand.
Everyone that isn't involved with football either a/ doesn't care, or b/ thinks we're a joke.
Football people will keep being football people, in whatever capacity.
I'd love more teams - so if Gisborne City, Ole Madrids, Team BoP wanted to have a crack - let them in!
A-League, for me, is getting very very stale.
Good thing the new teams are coming in next season.
We (as in football, or for that matter most things, in New Zealand) aren't good enough (yet) to be pissing people off (read: turning them down, sending them away) - like we do so often.
Permalink
Permalink
Yellow Fever NZFC:
geographically (out of respect for the original effort, from the top) and without TOO much thought...but a little bit of justifiably-debatable and thought-provoking controversy
geographically (out of respect for the original effort, from the top) and without TOO much thought...but a little bit of justifiably-debatable and thought-provoking controversy
Waitakere City
East Coast Bays
Central United
Ngaruawahia United
Napier City Rovers
YoungHeart Manawatu
Western Suburbs
Mirimar Rangers
Nelson Suburbs
Canterbury United
Dunedin Technical
Caversham
East Coast Bays
Central United
Ngaruawahia United
Napier City Rovers
YoungHeart Manawatu
Western Suburbs
Mirimar Rangers
Nelson Suburbs
Canterbury United
Dunedin Technical
Caversham
Then like Reg said, 2 relegated, and 4 (yes, four) promoted from regional leagues - Northern League, Central League, Capital Premier, and a South Island Premier League (which would mainly be Christchurch and Dunedin, obviously)
Purely hypothetical though, of course.
Permalink
Permalink
Dont see how you could consider Ngarua wahia above Melville or Hamilton Wanderers based on there overall league positions. Like the idea....
Permalink
Permalink
Dont see how you could consider Ngarua wahia above Melville or Hamilton Wanderers based on there overall league positions. Like the idea....
I'm just thinking, Waikato-football-baggage-wise...in that, Ngaruawahia seems to have the least.
Perhaps a little tongue-in-cheek also, considering Waikato FC's new home ground?
Permalink
Permalink
Interestingly, if HAWKES Bay UTD reverted to Napier City Rovers in a club based national league, I would n't get involved on match days to the extent I do now-if at all.( I turn in to this 50 year old teenager in the BAY ARMY on match days.) I have affiliations with a rival Hawkes Bay club and Napier City Rovers are the 'enemy'. HAWKES BAY UTD as a concept is brilliant and a 'provincial' national league is defo the way to go.
Permalink
Permalink
Hey there, Masty,
You'd probably find that any clubs that finished in the top 4-5 of regional leagues could step in.
The "standard" becomes the standard very quickly. Players who want to play at top level gravitiate to top level clubs.
But Masty, what is all this about baggage? What baggage? Melville United have competed in the national league and the 1999 North Island League. But all their baggage was checked in.
Wanderers have not competed at that level, but have helped host national league games. I can't see any baggage there either.
Ngaruawahia have played in the northern premier league a couple of times, if you go back a bit, but there is nothing there to suggest they are ready for a step-up. On rankings they are the fourth best Waikato BOP club and on 2008 finishing positions, the 15th best in the northern league (discountignt he north harbour clubs, of course.)
(Declaration of interest: I'm with Melville.)
Permalink
Permalink
I'm with Melville too! Come on man...
The baggage I'm speaking of is that it'd be 'easiest' - again, hypothetically - to base/give it to Narra, to save on the "why Melville?" (or, equally, "why Wanderers?")
I think less (out of an admitted very few) people 'hate' Ngaruawahia - it has a reputation as a very friendly, popular club.
...a Waikato football fan's favourite 'other' club, if you will?
And, again, taking the piss for the current situation.
I think Waikato FC, as a concept, is fine.
Please replace my prescribed 'Ngaruawahia United' with 'Waikato FC'.
But I stick by NOT Melville, Wanderers, or Tauranga - who I would ideally like to see 'promoted' through the regional leagues in our hypothetical scenario.
Permalink
Permalink
Dont see how you could consider Ngarua wahia above Melville or Hamilton Wanderers based on there overall league positions. Like the idea....
Also you be hard press to get two strong enough squad from Otago with both Dunedin Tech and Caversham. The player quality for national club league is not high enough. Otago can only supply enough for one and half squad.
In a 12 team national league, one-third of the country is Auckland and so one-third of the league should roughly be Auckland teams regardless of whether it is franchised or club based. This gives 4 auckland teams and 8 other teams around the country.
Permalink
Permalink
bruce, could melville do it again? could you fund and run an effective national league side?
i guess as far as who can enter and who is originally selected goes, personally i would leave it open to the best 12 bids initially and see how they go - the bottom team gets the chop, the next bottom plays off.
if clubs from a region decided to work a combined entity, fair play to them. but they would have to earn the right for promotion on the pitch and pass minimum criteria. key thing for me is promotion and relegation and the competitive environment that it will bring.
Permalink
Permalink
If anyone could actually be arsed, this is totally achievable...
...provided they were rich enough (just in case), cared enough, and had enough credibility to not be laughed off the other end of the phone when they approach [x amount of] chairmans/presidents to 'see if they're keen'
If it got started, it'd work.
Permalink
Permalink
i think that f you opened this whole thing up a lot of organisations would step orward and the enthusiasm would exist.
Permalink
Permalink
Whilst I can see some benefits from the franchise approach I have always believed from day 1 of the NZFC that we would see a return to a club based league. From what I have seen in the last couple of days with the criteria being ignored it looks like it is getting closer.
I believe 10 teams is right with a robust relegation system , ie bottom side down and replaced by a winner of playoff system between 3-4 teams.
My 10 would be :
East Coast Bays
Central (aka Auckland City)
Waitakere (city or United - same thing really !)
A waikato entity - given past track record then this might be problematic.
Napier City Rovers (despite what some say same thing as HBU)
manawatu
Miramar
Wests (or Lower Hutt)
canterbury United (model already exists)
A Otago Entity - definitely not two teams.
Probably unlucky is Nelson and perhaps another Auckland entity - East or South. Feel really sorry for Mt Wgtn - now playing social football and it will be a long way back from there.
Permalink
Permalink
Club based has got to be the way to go. It shouldnt matter about spreading it through the country and promotion and relegation should become a part of it.
ECB
Central
Waitak
An east Auckland team of some sort
Hamilton (insert any name)
Napier
Palmy
Wests
Mirimar
Nelson
Dunedin tech
and a canterbury team.
Have the winners of the 4 regional leagues play each other once or have a semi final and top two go up with bottom two of the league dropping out
ECB
Central
Waitak
An east Auckland team of some sort
Hamilton (insert any name)
Napier
Palmy
Wests
Mirimar
Nelson
Dunedin tech
and a canterbury team.
Have the winners of the 4 regional leagues play each other once or have a semi final and top two go up with bottom two of the league dropping out
Permalink
Permalink
Club based national league is not the way to go IMHO. The summer NZFC franchises are a better model.
However, I do think that consideration should be made to incorporate a playoff for a domestic club winners cup between the regional winners.
This would be very exciting end to the winter club season along with the chatham cup.
So I would have these winning league teams in a drawn home and away playoff and then a drawn home and away final. Eight games, all done within four weeks.
2008 Northern Premier League Champions - Central United
2008 Central Region Premier League Champions - Miramar Rangers
2008 Mainland Premier League Champions - Nelson Suburbs
2008 Soccersouth Premier League Champions - Caversham
-> 2008 Club Winners Cup Champions - ?????AllWhitebelievr2008-10-23 23:38:48
However, I do think that consideration should be made to incorporate a playoff for a domestic club winners cup between the regional winners.
This would be very exciting end to the winter club season along with the chatham cup.
So I would have these winning league teams in a drawn home and away playoff and then a drawn home and away final. Eight games, all done within four weeks.
2008 Northern Premier League Champions - Central United
2008 Central Region Premier League Champions - Miramar Rangers
2008 Mainland Premier League Champions - Nelson Suburbs
2008 Soccersouth Premier League Champions - Caversham
-> 2008 Club Winners Cup Champions - ?????AllWhitebelievr2008-10-23 23:38:48
Permalink
Permalink
Bit of a lopsided comp, the Black and Blue from Wellington are not even up to the standard of the Third best Dunedin team.
Permalink
Permalink
If this happens, I for one will not go to the games. Feck that. We have two perfectly good teams in Auckland, and a professional team in Wellington. Why should those really good teams and their supporters have to suffer because of the incompetency of the general NZ football public. I am in favour of ACFC and Waitak joining forces with other like minded northern clubs and feck the rest. Why would a club based national league succeed where the NZFC failed. The Auckland clubs would still spend five times what the other sides do, and then they'd whinge and complain, and say bring in a salary cap et al. Meanwhile the Oceania spot on the WorldClub Champs is kissed goodbye. Jeez talk about a backward looking idea.
Permalink
Permalink
If this happens, I for one will not go to the games. Feck that. We have two perfectly good teams in Auckland, and a professional team in Wellington. Why should those really good teams and their supporters have to suffer because of the incompetency of the general NZ football public. I am in favour of ACFC and Waitak joining forces with other like minded northern clubs and feck the rest. Why would a club based national league succeed where the NZFC failed. The Auckland clubs would still spend five times what the other sides do, and then they'd whinge and complain, and say bring in a salary cap et al. Meanwhile the Oceania spot on the WorldClub Champs is kissed goodbye. Jeez talk about a backward looking idea.
That would be a good start! If we are talking of lopsided competition The WCC has to be right up there along with the O-League itself.
We Still Love You Colin We Do!
Permalink
Permalink
If this happens, I for one will not go to the games. Feck that. We have two perfectly good teams in Auckland, and a professional team in Wellington. Why should those really good teams and their supporters have to suffer because of the incompetency of the general NZ football public. I am in favour of ACFC and Waitak joining forces with other like minded northern clubs and feck the rest. Why would a club based national league succeed where the NZFC failed. The Auckland clubs would still spend five times what the other sides do, and then they'd whinge and complain, and say bring in a salary cap et al. Meanwhile the Oceania spot on the WorldClub Champs is kissed goodbye. Jeez talk about a backward looking idea.
don't worry daikiwi, it was just a hypothetical question, asked in order to field views on who could do it.
Permalink
Permalink