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Posted July 25, 2014 08:05 · last edited July 25, 2014 08:08

terminator_x wrote:

Napier Phoenix wrote:
I am from the camp that believes you should encourage others to reach the dizzy heights rather than drag everyone else down to the lowest level. Term's idea would destroy ACFC and I don't think it would be fair [even partly] on the basis that they can get more pokie funding than anyone else.

I totally agree in principle NP but the problem with that is we're effectively saying every ASBP franchise needs a budget of around $1m, which means the entire league's budget would be around $8m.

That means finding an extra $5m per annum over current revenue, when the league only generates $1m of its own revenue now (including the CWC cash. Most franchises, including ACFC, generate very little 'real' revenue). Also, pokie trusts simply aren't going to plough that sort of money into paying players, which seems to be a key part of the "raising the standard to compete in the O-League" argument.

For further perspective, NZF's entire budget per annum is about $9m so they clearly cannot do much more to get the league to the levels that BM is advocating.

It's simply not a strategically pragmatic course of action to take.

I also think BM is overstating the degree to which the CWC money is propping up the rest of the league. Franchises typically receive around $30k from their share of CWC winnings, which for most of them is around 10-15% of total budget. ACFC's share is more like 30% of their budget (over 5 yrs to 2012 they averaged $300 pa CWC winnings, and $900k total revenue pa). So the team more dependent on CWC cash than anyone else is actually ACFC.

So here's a devil's advocate question - is competing in the O-League a bad strategic choice for football in NZ? What do we actually get out of it? Would we be financially better off by not competing in O-League and focusing on the ASBP?

That's an interesting point because competing in the O league at the level of ACFC requires extra investment, which can only be recouped if ACFC wins the competition. When WU failed to win the O league several years ago it sent them into a financial tailspin from which they never recovered. It wasn't the only reason but it contributed. Now WU are not even competitive in the O League and they're probably going to struggle in next season's ASBP.

TW are going to find out for themselves next season that the standard of the O League is getting much better because rich investors are pouring money into teams like Amicale  (Vanuatu) and Dragon (Tahiti). Big crowds turn out in Melanesia and Tahiti. ACFC went to the wire against Amicale in a thrilling home leg final last season at Kiwitea Street. It could have gone either way. The Amicale team by the way featured two Serbians pros and a former Scot pro and was bankrolled by a wealthy supermarket tycoon. Dragon is near professional and Hekari (New Guinea) has rich mining interests behind it.

To take away ACFC's ability to put out its strongest side will diminish NZ's chances of winning the O league. Take that $30,000+ away from say CU or WaiBop and do you seriously think they could continue in the ASBP?

Another factor is frankly the ASBP has been so devalued by NZF indifference over the years that if there was no O League I doubt ACFC would attract the players/coach it does. The prospect of going to the Fifa Club World Cup is still a big incentive. We wouldn't have Ramon for a start. I truly don't believe the ASBP would survive without the O league.

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Bluemagic edited July 25, 2014 08:08
terminator_x wrote:
Napier Phoenix wrote:
I am from the camp that believes you should encourage others to reach the dizzy heights rather than drag everyone else down to the lowest level. Term's idea would destroy ACFC and I don't think it would be fair [even partly] on the basis that they can get more pokie funding than anyone else.

I totally agree in principle NP but the problem with that is we're effectively saying every ASBP franchise needs a budget of around $1m, which means the entire league's budget would be around $8m.

That means finding an extra $5m per annum over current revenue, when the league only generates $1m of its own revenue now (including the CWC cash. Most franchises, including ACFC, generate very little 'real' revenue). Also, pokie trusts simply aren't going to plough that sort of money into paying players, which seems to be a key part of the "raising the standard to compete in the O-League" argument.

For further perspective, NZF's entire budget per annum is about $9m so they clearly cannot do much more to get the league to the levels that BM is advocating.

It's simply not a strategically pragmatic course of action to take.

I also think BM is overstating the degree to which the CWC money is propping up the rest of the league. Franchises typically receive around $30k from their share of CWC winnings, which for most of them is around 10-15% of total budget. ACFC's share is more like 30% of their budget (over 5 yrs to 2012 they averaged $300 pa CWC winnings, and $900k total revenue pa). So the team more dependent on CWC cash than anyone else is actually ACFC.

So here's a devil's advocate question - is competing in the O-League a bad strategic choice for football in NZ? What do we actually get out of it? Would we be financially better off by not competing in O-League and focusing on the ASBP?

That's an interesting point because competing in the O league at the level ACFC requires extra investment, which can only be recouped if ACFC win the competition. When WU failed to win the O league several years ago it sent them into a financial tailspin from which they never recovered. It wasn't the only reason but it contributed. Now WU are not even competitive in the O League.

TW are going to find out for themselves next season that the standard of the O League is getting much better because rich investors are pouring money into teams like Amicale  (Vanuatu) and Dragon (Tahiti). Big crowd turn out in Melanesia. ACFC went to the wire against Amicale in a thrilling home leg final last season at Kiwitea Street. It could have gone either way. The Amicale team by the way featured two Serbians pros and a former Scot pro and was bankrolled by a wealthy supermarket tycoon. Dragon is near professional and Hakeri (New Guinea) has rich mining interests behind it.

To take away ACFC's ability to put out its strongest side will diminish NZ's chances of winning the O league. Take that $30,000+ away from say CU or WaiBop and do you seriously think they could continue in the ASBP?

Another factor is frankly the ASBP has been so devalued by NZF indifference over the years that if there was no O League I doubt ACFC would attract the players/coach it does. The prospect of going to the Fifa Club World Cup is still a big incentive. We wouldn't have Ramon for a start. I truly don't believe the ASBP would survive without the O league.