Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
Team Wellington... no longer an association with Ole. Chur
It kind of makes sense that you wouldn't see any problems with the current set-up being from Scotland though. You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Successful team garners plenty of support. I am stunned.
You are living in a fantasy if you think thousands are clamouring to go to Southern United games anytime soon.
The problem is putting an official salary cap on an amateur league will clearly raise some red flags at DIA.
It would be an expenditure cap - subtle difference.
Basically the idea would be to force franchises out of the "coaching" game.
Would still be hard to police because franchises could find ways to pay players outside the books. But at least the intent would be there.
It kind of makes sense that you wouldn't see any problems with the current set-up being from Scotland though. You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Successful team garners plenty of support. I am stunned.
You are living in a fantasy if you think thousands are clamouring to go to Southern United games anytime soon.
Isn't that the point? Of course ACFC can get support because they win. But for every other club, it's basically impossible for them to compete and be successful, and therefore incredibly difficult to grow support or interest.
It kind of makes sense that you wouldn't see any problems with the current set-up being from Scotland though. You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Successful team garners plenty of support. I am stunned.
You are living in a fantasy if you think thousands are clamouring to go to Southern United games anytime soon.
Isn't that the point? Of course ACFC can get support because they win. But for every other club, it's basically impossible for them to compete and be successful, and therefore incredibly difficult to grow support or interest.
Too simplistic. Waitakerie have been winners too - and their support is pitiful.
It kind of makes sense that you wouldn't see any problems with the current set-up being from Scotland though. You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Successful team garners plenty of support. I am stunned.
You are living in a fantasy if you think thousands are clamouring to go to Southern United games anytime soon.
Isn't that the point? Of course ACFC can get support because they win. But for every other club, it's basically impossible for them to compete and be successful, and therefore incredibly difficult to grow support or interest.
Yeah but you aren't going to get a perfectly even spread.
If the shoe was on the other foot perhaps ACFC would have fuck all support. Welcome to life.
It kind of makes sense that you wouldn't see any problems with the current set-up being from Scotland though. You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Successful team garners plenty of support. I am stunned.
You are living in a fantasy if you think thousands are clamouring to go to Southern United games anytime soon.
Isn't that the point? Of course ACFC can get support because they win. But for every other club, it's basically impossible for them to compete and be successful, and therefore incredibly difficult to grow support or interest.
Yeah but you aren't going to get a perfectly even spread.
If the shoe was on the other foot perhaps ACFC would have fuck all support. Welcome to life.
So it is what it is and we shouldn't look to better it because "that's life"?
So it is what it is and we shouldn't look to better it because "that's life"?
Nah, but you are never going to have a perfect league. Whether that be players, teams, support, competitiveness, equality.
If TW happened to win the league this season, it wouldn't change the fact ACFC still have more money than anyone, or that they are arguably the best run club in the league.
My opinion on what needs to happen: post #1557 on the WaiBOP thread. (Nov 02 I think).
Even if we couldn't get a perfect league, shouldn't we be striving for it?
Your argument is "we can't get a perfect league so stop bothering trying to make it better"
Which is pretty defeatist.
Even if we couldn't get a perfect league, shouldn't we be striving for it?
Your argument is "we can't get a perfect league so stop bothering trying to make it better"
Which is pretty defeatist.
Well i don't think enough people have the time, money or energy to bother.
Not defeatist. Realistic.
How would you feel if it was TW who were dominating the league and had the best squad, best staff, best facilites etc?
Which do you think is the more interesting league to follow a team in?
Easily the ASBP for many reasons.
1) I live in Auckland - Why would I support a team based in Wellington who plays home games in Wellington or more recently one game a year in Auckland and plays in an overseas league. I'm an active supporter not an armchair viewer.
2) The ASBP benefits football fans in the majority of NZ rather than just those in Wellington.
3) The ASBP fosters genuine national rivalries as opposed to an NZ/Aus rivalry. If I want that then I'll watch the All Whites V Australia.
4) I genuinely want the ASBP to succeed so would not give up on it just because more teams have won in the Australian competition. I was born in Scotland where 2 teams have dominated for the last 25-30 years - doesn't mean I give up on it and start supporting an English team.
The question was not "Is the ASBP more interesting than the A League". The question was 'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
You've really just come here and decided to support one of the NZ equivalent of Celtic or Rangers. Brave choice (or at least convenient).
Er, no. I've lived in Auckland in all the time I've lived in NZ - the majority of my adult life. Why would I support TW or YH Manawatu? Incidently, I'm neither a Rangers or Celtic fan.
Even if we couldn't get a perfect league, shouldn't we be striving for it?
Your argument is "we can't get a perfect league so stop bothering trying to make it better"
Which is pretty defeatist.
Well i don't think enough people have the time, money or energy to bother.
Not defeatist. Realistic.
Yeah, fuck it, let's do nothing. Someone fetch me a razor and run me a warm bath.
How would you feel if it was TW who were dominating the league and had the best squad, best staff, best facilites etc?
Which do you think is the more interesting league to follow a team in?
Easily the ASBP for many reasons.
1) I live in Auckland - Why would I support a team based in Wellington who plays home games in Wellington or more recently one game a year in Auckland and plays in an overseas league. I'm an active supporter not an armchair viewer.
2) The ASBP benefits football fans in the majority of NZ rather than just those in Wellington.
3) The ASBP fosters genuine national rivalries as opposed to an NZ/Aus rivalry. If I want that then I'll watch the All Whites V Australia.
4) I genuinely want the ASBP to succeed so would not give up on it just because more teams have won in the Australian competition. I was born in Scotland where 2 teams have dominated for the last 25-30 years - doesn't mean I give up on it and start supporting an English team.
The question was not "Is the ASBP more interesting than the A League". The question was 'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
Yes, but I have answered the question within the context it was posed. Term used the examples of the A-league and the ASBP within his question and as such I can't really answer the question without looking at the broader picture.
It's not all about money. I have no idea if and what any of the ASBP teams pay players. TW should be able to attract top players with the 'carrot' of the phoenix.
How would you feel if it was TW who were dominating the league and had the best squad, best staff, best facilites etc?
Which do you think is the more interesting league to follow a team in?
Easily the ASBP for many reasons.
1) I live in Auckland - Why would I support a team based in Wellington who plays home games in Wellington or more recently one game a year in Auckland and plays in an overseas league. I'm an active supporter not an armchair viewer.
2) The ASBP benefits football fans in the majority of NZ rather than just those in Wellington.
3) The ASBP fosters genuine national rivalries as opposed to an NZ/Aus rivalry. If I want that then I'll watch the All Whites V Australia.
4) I genuinely want the ASBP to succeed so would not give up on it just because more teams have won in the Australian competition. I was born in Scotland where 2 teams have dominated for the last 25-30 years - doesn't mean I give up on it and start supporting an English team.
The question was not "Is the ASBP more interesting than the A League". The question was 'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
Yes, but I have answered the question within the context it was posed. Term used the examples of the A-league and the ASBP within his question and as such I can't really answer the question without looking at the broader picture.
Even if we couldn't get a perfect league, shouldn't we be striving for it?
Your argument is "we can't get a perfect league so stop bothering trying to make it better"
Which is pretty defeatist.
Well i don't think enough people have the time, money or energy to bother.
Not defeatist. Realistic.
Yeah, fuck it, let's do nothing. Someone fetch me a razor and run me a warm bath.
No need to kill yourself over a poor national league.
How would you feel if it was TW who were dominating the league and had the best squad, best staff, best facilites etc?
Which do you think is the more interesting league to follow a team in?
Easily the ASBP for many reasons.
1) I live in Auckland - Why would I support a team based in Wellington who plays home games in Wellington or more recently one game a year in Auckland and plays in an overseas league. I'm an active supporter not an armchair viewer.
2) The ASBP benefits football fans in the majority of NZ rather than just those in Wellington.
3) The ASBP fosters genuine national rivalries as opposed to an NZ/Aus rivalry. If I want that then I'll watch the All Whites V Australia.
4) I genuinely want the ASBP to succeed so would not give up on it just because more teams have won in the Australian competition. I was born in Scotland where 2 teams have dominated for the last 25-30 years - doesn't mean I give up on it and start supporting an English team.
The question was not "Is the ASBP more interesting than the A League". The question was 'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
Yes, but I have answered the question within the context it was posed. Term used the examples of the A-league and the ASBP within his question and as such I can't really answer the question without looking at the broader picture.
Actually, you misunderstood the question and despite having it clarified for you twice since then you still haven't answered it.
So to use Jeff's phrasing: "Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is an also ran, or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team?".
And I will add: "And do you think a league with an even playing field where the winner could be any team might generate higher attendances overall, and more interest nationally from media, sponsors etc, than a league where only two teams are in it?".
It's not all about money. I have no idea if and what any of the ASBP teams pay players. TW should be able to attract top players with the 'carrot' of the phoenix.
If it's not about money, why do ACFC need $500k per annum from Trillion Trust (money that could otherwise be invested in many other Auckland community projects) and why the resistance to the idea of an expenditure cap that would create a more competitive and sustainable league?
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
Nor have I ever supported an English team just because my team hasn't won diddly squat of any relevance for over 20 years.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
He said a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers.
Not sure the comparison is valid anyway. Celtic and Rangers both got into the position they are without requiring pseudo-Government handouts.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
He said a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers.
Not sure the comparison is valid anyway. Celtic and Rangers both got into the position they are without requiring pseudo-Government handouts.
Well Rangers got there by not paying tax.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
He said a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers.
Yes I do support a team in Scotland other than Celtic or Rangers.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
He said a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers.
Not sure the comparison is valid anyway. Celtic and Rangers both got into the position they are without requiring pseudo-Government handouts.
Well Rangers got there by not paying tax.
Well done - I was also about to point this out.
Or put yourself in the shoes of a fan from a Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers. I'm sure they'd prefer a more level playing field to make the competition more interesting to them, and so they can build a bigger fan base, rather than having many support an English team (or Celtic/rangers)
OK let me step into those shoes... Oh wait a minute, I've never in my life supported either of these teams.
He said a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers.
Yes I do support a team in Scotland other than Celtic or Rangers.
You then ignored the rest of my post. I didn't say you would stop supporting them.
I'm trying to draw an outside of ACFC comparison that you may understand.
I haven't stopped supporting TW either. But I do think a more level playing field would help generate more interest across the league outside of Auckland, and make it easier to then eventually build a fan base and perhaps get sponsorships, media coverage etc
Dodging the questions Ali?
Dodging the questions Ali?
He's channeling BlueMagic.
Dodging the questions Ali?
Not at all.
'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
The answer to that question with no other context whatsoever and no emotional relevance then the answer is yes.
However, put in some relevant context such as which sport are you talking about? Do you like that sport? If the league based in a country that you are from or live in? Are you a fan of any of the teams in that league? Etc, etc then the answer is very different.
In fact, the correct answer to the context-less question would really be 'I don't give a shit' because without context, it's a relatively meaningless question.
The discussion is why people all over the country don't support the ASB Premiership thoguh. Not about why more people go to see the Phoenix than team Wellington.
You're responses are entirely fixated on the Phoenix, not on how supporters of other franchises (or even non-Phoenix supporting Wellingtonians) might feel about the appeal of the league.
Ever thought of becoming a politician?
If there were 2 ASBP leagues running at once. You just moved to Wellinfgton (or anywhere outside of Auckland). One is the current set up we have now (or as term described it "a league dominated by 2 teams where everyone else is an also ran"). The other league is an even playing field where the winner could be any team. There is also no Wellington Phoenix team.
Which is the more interesting league?
Hopefully I haven't left any loopholes in there that you can dodge through.
The discussion is why people all over the country don't support the ASB Premiership thoguh. Not about why more people go to see the Phoenix than team Wellington.
You're responses are entirely fixated on the Phoenix, not on how supporters of other franchises (or even non-Phoenix supporting Wellingtonians) might feel about the appeal of the league.
Before I accuse you of making shit up, can you point out where, I've talked about the phoenix?
Dodging the questions Ali?
Not at all.
'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
The answer to that question with no other context whatsoever and no emotional relevance then the answer is yes.
However, put in some relevant context such as which sport are you talking about? Do you like that sport? If the league based in a country that you are from or live in? Are you a fan of any of the teams in that league? Etc, etc then the answer is very different.
In fact, the correct answer to the context-less question would really be 'I don't give a shit' because without context, it's a relatively meaningless question.
It's interesting that what you are rather clumsily trying to frame as a "context-less question" is actually the one question that really matters i.e. how to improve the league and get more attention from fans, media, sponsors etc? It's a question that posters from ACFC are constantly harping on about on here. However, the problem that you and some of your mates seem to have is that you are unwilling/unable to set aside your loyalty to ACFC in order to discuss that question objectively. Somebody has to though, so you are effectively just excluding yourself from the conversation. What you are calling "context" is actually just a bloody-minded refusal to examine the issue from any other point of view but ACFC's.
Anyway, I better leave it there for now or I'll end up breaking Rule 7.
Dodging the questions Ali?
Not at all.
'Is it more interesting to follow a league where only 2 teams are in it and everyone else is also an ran or is it better to watch a league that has an even playing field and the winner could be any team"
The answer to that question with no other context whatsoever and no emotional relevance then the answer is yes.
However, put in some relevant context such as which sport are you talking about? Do you like that sport? If the league based in a country that you are from or live in? Are you a fan of any of the teams in that league? Etc, etc then the answer is very different.
In fact, the correct answer to the context-less question would really be 'I don't give a shit' because without context, it's a relatively meaningless question.
It's interesting that what you are rather clumsily trying to frame as a "context-less question" is actually the one question that really matters i.e. how to improve the league and get more attention from fans, media, sponsors etc? It's a question that posters from ACFC are constantly harping on about on here. However, the problem that you and some of your mates seem to have is that you are unwilling/unable to set aside your loyalty to ACFC in order to discuss that question objectively. Somebody has to though, so you are effectively just excluding yourself from the conversation. What you are calling "context" is actually just a bloody-minded refusal to examine the issue from any other point of view but ACFC's.
Anyway, I better leave it there for now or I'll end up breaking Rule 7.
Two people doing live updates logistically is hard, what is usually done is there someone doing the updates, and another good set of eyes there to keep an eye on the action when frantically typing away after a rash of subs or cards.
I'm sure commentary is in the pipeline at some stage but financially I think it'd be a struggle to achieve.
I used to use EG here as my spotter, narrator, reader of my audio book. Not enough colour in some of the reports for me. I mean where is the review of the quality of the sausage sizzles or a discussion on how bad the hangover is or even which players were spotted out at 02:00 the morning before?
Standards have clearly slipped.
In fairness, I've done my best to bring the colour from down south. Who could forget my my 4 week long series of halftime diatribes against the Forsyth Barr Stadium caterers? I know I won't.
But yeah, re the first bit, I have the old man down the stand on speed dial to help with the details like sub number, scorer numbers etc.
Blimey! Sommet Sports showing Waitakere vs TW on at 11 pm tonight.
#bovrilandchitchats
Sh!t - it's on right now. 1st half, 13 mins in.
Commentator keeps referring to Frodo...
Also aren't the ref's yellow shirt and black shorts not particularly a good choice considering the TW kit?
Good chance wasted by Fa'arodo.
So the ref - Mirko Benischke - I think he reffed a TW - ACFC game at Dave Farrington several seasons ago. I recall him being quite harsh.
I've been watching him (as much as possible on the TV, often out of shot) and he seems to be quite slow/relaxed in pace but is usually well-sighted for most of the infringements.
Seems to be getting it right and keeping the game flowing.