WeeNix - NZ National League

There are a couple of players in that tournament team that have featured in the Handa. No first team players in squad.

er, Willem is at the tourney

It is pretty much the National Youth League squad plus some younger players at Western Springs this weekend for Tourney. 

Ebbinge, Sutton , Waine at tournament. None are first teamers. The rest are the U17 squad. For those who are interested , they made the final, beat Fencibles in the semi. Will either be up against Western Springs or Birkenhead who are currently in extra time in their semi ( WS up)

by first teamers Reg would of meant Handa. Devlin had a moan about it

Yup, after I posted my reply I thought that's what he probably meant. Saw Devlin's moan to Ricki. 2 sides of course. Devlin does have a point. Equally, would these guys missing one Handa game mean that much in all honesty? They've gone up to a pretty deep tournament and won it, unbeaten, with every other team there targeting them simply cos of who they are. In terms of self belief and  a great start to their year , maybe it was worth it. Just a thought. 

I thought the speak from the likes of academies these days is that weekend tournies are too taxing on young bodies?

some say that (Ole) some don't (Phoenix) #knowyouracademies!

Thought it was a club tournament

yeah 'first team players' was a mistake, i meant national league players

sounds like a bit of a piss take to me. i'm sure there are other entities around the country that would place more value on having a national league place than this.

does anyone know if other national league sides decided to send first teamers along?

Tasman had already released players to winter league's so were under strength and I doubt there are many/any other sides playing Under-17s

It's kind of hard to call who in the Academy structure is in what team. Players like Ebbinge are in the  first team one week, on the bench the next, then not involved the next.

With promotion to the first team and rotation it's hard to claim they were in any way under strength vs Auckland City let alone undermining the competition.

Seeing as it was a tweet of mine that started this...

Willem Ebbinge, Sam Sutton and Ben Waine have made 14, 14, and 16 appearances (out of a possible 17, prior to this weekend) for the WeeNix and 13, 11, and 10 starts.

Fair to call them all regulars. All three started for the team at the U-17 tournament in the final and played no part in Saturday's NL game.

Noah Tipene-Clegg has also had a decent run in the NL team of late, but wasn't there. An U-17 starter.

I missed it at the time, but Kurtis Mogg who was also at the U-17s started the NL game, subbed off after 70. He's basically replaced Liam Wood in the NL team following Wood's move to Team Welly. Would have to figure they just had no CB depth without him.

Zac Dean, an U-17 tournament player, was named on the bench as RGK; as was Jackson Manuel, a 2003-born player. Neither came on.

Oscar Spragg and Owen Smith who started have played 17 and 119 minutes this season.

As I said when I tweeted it, hard to call it right or wrong, and having watched the U-17 team win that tournament today, I can see why they'd prioritise it over the NL game. It also allowed the likes of Spragg and Smith some valuable game time.

Keegan Smith was sick during the week, so didn't travel to Auckland.

Jake Williams, Patrick Tobin and Zach Dean all named in the TW youth squad

https://www.instagram.com/p/Boft2xvDi3q/

what do we know about the new kids Rudan has brought into the academy? 

their names!

both apparently eligible for NZ and were in the same Aussie U23 camp as Dane Ingham but thats about it

And both midfielders born Jan/feb 1999. Both played Aus NYL. 1 played 4 times, one played 148 times.

What are the rules regarding senior players dropping down to play for the WeeNix? Just wondering if we will be able to give Way, Elliot and the two omitted some game time.

So what did Kopy look like for the WeeNix?

Like just another team player imho. Nothing to stand out above the rest.

Thought Weenix looked capable of winning early on, but ultimately too many weakies in the team. Way and Kopa both looked competent and comfortable but not standouts, not game-changers in this game.

Elliot looked good (and fired up), and Harris and Kumusz both dangerous on attack. Not sure about Kumusz' fitness, spirit and pace; might do well with Rudan's training methods.

Keeper looked agile but can't kick far.

Wondering why Fox didn't play; that might have tipped the balance.

Harris has agreed to go to the states cia college, so unlikely to get a run now. Its a shame, one more year here and he would be eligable to play for NZ (assuming dispensation would be given)

The club are unlikely to do that. Getting an education then trying your hand at professional football gives you a back-up if you get injured or don't make it.  Generally the club support a move for personal development.

Don't quote me on this, can't find the rule book just now, but I think it is something like they have a (NZFootball?) dispensation to play 2 contracted professionals to give them game time, but opposition have to agree to it. Youth contracts may be outside that. 

Why can't we keep Calvin Harris for another year in the youth team, naturalise him and then play him.

He's been here since he was 14, so 4 years now, what's one more year waiting to go pro as instead of going to the States for four years and then trying through the draft.

Because like Krishna he hasn't been here the whole time so no guarantees.  He would also miss the window for college and as I said above the college route is (probably) a safer bet for the future.

Harris returns home to Hong Kong in the school holidays. He's nowhere close to naturalisation or citizenship or anything like that.

What a shame for us  - by all reports (and from the highlights I've seen) he's real quality - but I understand where he's coming from.

He'll do well out of the US College system and I'm sure he'll play professionally and at a decent level as soon as he graduates. Good luck to the lad!

If Kopa goes and Krishna gets naturalised.... then what?

it's important for the Nix to have a strong reserves team, and they don't. It's demoralising to get beaten week in week out, and bad for the club's reputation. It's frustrating to see soft goals, and moves break down, because of players who are currently below Handa standard.

Players who do make the A league team have been conditioned to lose.

What is the point of having players in the reserves who aren't really competing for a first team spot? 

According to wiki, up to four first team players can play each week (is that true?). I'd suggest the Nix first team sign a few more players, including a center back and even a GK, with the expectation that they'll be in the reserves, fighting to impress.

Having a third goalie would allow the two backups to alternate between playing and pine time.

Also a strong team will attract strong (young) players.

The team could look like this:, with the four  Nix players not selected in week 1 as an example of how senior players could be used. Only players who are comfortably at Handa level, IMO, included.

            GK??

??    ??     Fox           Way

     Stensness   Kopa

            Kumsuz

Elliot    Harris      ???

So there's an obvious lack of Nix-academy-developed players in there, and feel free to speak up for the players omitted, but my 2c says there is a bit of a gap between the above, and the best academy players (other than Harris - who is leaving).

For whatever reason, the Nix academy isn't, IMO, developing many Handa-level players, while Ole and the Wanderers' academies, for example, are. Suburbs 5 Hawkes Bay 0. WSW 1 Nix 0.

Solutions? No idea if this is feasible, but outsource the academy - come to an arrangement with Ole. 

Alternatively, put Rudan in charge and instil Rudan culture and methods. Less of whiteboards and mission statements.

Lastly, look at all of NZ as the source of players, and expect that only one player in ten might come from the Wellington region. The Nix academy is now established in Auckland, and that should be a good source of talent.

I believe the current rule is two senior Nix players (ie born 1998 or earlier) can play for WeeNix each week, plus as many U-20 Nix players (born 1999 or after) as possible (so Elliot, Cacace, Singh).

A lot would have to change for Ole to agree to a partnership with the Phoenix.

You're right that there needs to be a coherent philosophy from top to bottom, but it can't be set by the first team manager because he could be gone in a few months.

They are definitely looking outside of Wellington for players, but the problem is that a kid who is the best in the country at 14 could be well below that level at 18 if they don't work hard enough and the coaching isn't good enough.

It's all a bit more complicated than that though.

Outsourcing does nothing different really than current, except add the complication that players are signed with a different club which means they are not available for Phoenix.

Academy already is open to whole of New Zealand - if you look at the 10 NYL players that went to U17 qualifiers last month, 7 originate from outside Wellington. Probably less ratio for the Handa squad, but that is just indicative of how the academy is developing, from more dabbling 3-4 years ago with mostly local players nearly there, to recruiting and developing the best prospects from younger.

One of the difficulties comes from WGTN being quite small, and as academy players are amateur, players are either young (school age) at Uni - and Vic doesn't offer that broad a range of courses- or needing employment, so it is hard to attract older out of town players.

Fringe 1st teamers playing down is good, but you can't fill the rest up with mid-20 age players that will never be good enough to step up because you take away the pathway and opportunities for the ones that will maybe climb to that level. Consequently the team is probably a bit too young and lacking experience overall currently. And because of what they are trying to do, they suffer more than other Handa teams from losing players to US college and other opportunities. 

From a phoenix/development POV, I don't see a whole lot wrong with it

The have produced good players, they play decent footy and they provide a good level of football for fringe first team players

Anyone see ES-Weenix - clash of the academies? Standouts? Stensness absent - injured?