WeeNix - NZ National League

Don't turn this in to an Ole / Nix debate please... it never ends.

The Youth NIX squad is not going to win the league, but they are competative and deserve a place.

Not my intention to kick that rubbish off again, but clearly some on this forum have nothing better to do.

We clearly have different ideas on what it means to be competitive. I don't expect them to win the league but they need to be doing far more to justify their place in this league.

Does Martynn not have a small point though? One of the arguments for the WeeNix was so that senior squad members could get fit and return to competitive football and a pathway for aspiring Pro's, yet we don't really see that pathway having the downward effects on the quality of the WeeNix. The Nix seem to take the very cheap option of just stacking it full of kids that don't seem to have the enough supporting senior players for it to be a competitive team (e.g. McGarry) and they end up moving on in an endless 'cycle'. Why don't the Nix end up building a quaility second team and try to retain some of these 'might be good enough one day' players such as Liam Wood, McGarry and Justin Gulley. At the moment it just seems to be an endless cycle of prospects 'aging out of the Nix system'.

Sure, those players may want to challenge for other honours e.g. OFC Champions league but they rarely seem to build a squad over many years.

The official tagline for the league is literally "Where All Whites are made.". Its a development league, what's the problem with using it for development? 

yet to be the worst team in a season. at times been in the top 4 at around the halfway stage in the competition. possibly a bit cyclical with some youth players either being promoted or let go and new, younger intake take their place in team. also depends on quality of first team players available. 

I'd rather have an awesome national league driven by competition. Just my preference and I get that those in charge don't see it this way.

I'm not particularly happy with this being a development league. We shouldn't be relying on the Phoenix and the Phoenix only to satisfy all our footballing development requirements, because if they go - which we're still uncomfortably close to -  then we're stuck with a amateur "development league" as the best competition in the country with no plans to make it more competitive or grow it. We don't even have a single game reported on the news unless it's a final ffs.

A Phoenix reserves team is fine by me, but I'm not sure if I want it to be a youth team, save that for the NYL. A B team I would be very happy with - give guys like Way, Lowry, even Burns, Fox, Burges and other subs a chance to impress the coaching team, and make the league more competitive in the process. Very much agree with liberty_nz and Reg.

Complicated by not playing their games midweek, which from memory is what the WeeNix did when not part of the Handy, but they were playing friendlies against Handy sides.

Easier for WeeNix to have fringe first team players available if playing midweek.

If you compare the league to other sports - Rugby, Cricket, Ice Hockey(?) it is a bit ludicrous to have the 'top league' feature a young reserves team.

Although, one wonders whether there is enough of a player pool in the country to sustain another team? Perhaps putting in another Auckland/Welly/South Island team would still have them languishing at the bottom of the table.

Marketing drivel.

i think the players are there, but the issue is getting the best players from cashed up regional league sides into the national league. proper competition with promotion/relegation would take care of a large portion of this

Reg22, I get you're not suggesting we promote it as "the home for journeyman not good enough for professional football" but that's what your advocating. 

I don't see how we'll wver have a professional league in NZ ( in my lifetime. ) Why is a development series to help our best players get out of NZ not the best approach for NZ football?

There is some irony to see the Ole fan boys whining about WeeNix results when the Ole mantra is development not results...

Well, Eastern Suburbs have a bunch of 18 year-olds from Ole and are doing rather well...

Try again when there's a Phoenix Academy player at a club as big as PSV.

This is a site to promote The Phoenix, a team you and your "Ole Puppets" hate with a passion. You need to go elsewhere with your hate.

Alright that is enough from both sides. Back on topic please and play the ball not the man, anymore and we will be hiding posts and dishing out bans.

So a return to a club-based competition? 

I know this is off-topic, but I'd love to know what you have to do in order to actually have posts hidden and bans given out around here.

Clearly offering nothing and calling people "haters' and "puppets" isn't enough, so what does it take ?

Normally for me I give warnings and just ask for people to get back on track then if continues, I hide posts and we look at bans. 

Na I reckon you move it so it runs at the same time as the winter comps and make the teams compete for the same players - once players realise they have to play in NL to play against the best players (assuming they don't all opt to play regional leagues) then the problem is solved.

Can I suggest you can the two fcukwits and let us get back to have what was a civilised conversation until they turned up ?

No and you don't help your case by insulting them too. Now back on topic. 

I love how people get so worked up over posts on a fan forum...

I think the main problem is that we don't know what our national league is meant to be. Is it meant to be a development league as a stepping stone to something else or the pinnacle? Each person has a different take on it (and none are right or wrong, its just perspective relative to them)

Once we answer that question, then we know how everything else fits in with that. At the moment, I don't believe that answer is known and it gets clouded more so with the involvement of the Phoenix as a 'next level above'. 

Once we figure out what our NL is meant to be, you then figure out where it sits in the calendar and also club v franchise league and the role of the weenix within that too.

It's not an either/or situation though. The league really has to be both, otherwise either player development suffers, or the league is in danger of being unsustainable, and clearly no-one wants that. 

A club-based national league is a pipe-dream really, I don't think that going down the road will fix anything, but it could make things a lot worse. 

are you saying classing it as a development league brings more risk of it being (more) unsustainable? how?

If the Nix go, we’re stuffed as the premier football competition in the nation is a development league.

Additionally the league could make a lot more revenue by realising that this is the best nationwide football event and promoting/bringing in quality as such

The league is barely functional now, and depends massively on the CWC money. Take that away, and become a developmental competition solely, and the league will be done and dusted in two years tops.

And that may still happen if FIFA go ahead with their latest plans for revamping the CWC.

what do you think is the main reason the league/clubs are not financially sustainable?

What he said

BTW, i don't care if it's a franchise, a club, a professional clubs reserve team or a group of best mates who like a few beers. I just want a structure where the cream rises to the top

The fact that there just isn't enough money in this country for it.

money for what expenses and reasons for it currently?

Vanity, proped up by pokies money.

Even if you take player payments away, a national league still comes with a lot of expenses. Take away the CWC money, and the feasibility of a national league, however you structure it, is in question.

interested in the analysis on the CWC money then and how it compares to that spent on players. Which is self perpetuating anyway - paying $ to players to win the pot of gold. And as you say it can't be something that is relied on anyway (now or in future)

From memory, the minimum amount you get is $500,000US if you lose the first game. The way Handy Prem'sm operated is that the particiapting team gets half of that, and the rest is shared between the remaining teams.

so first round payout for a non CWC handy team in 50k?

From memory, it's usually worked out to about $60-70kNZ in the past.

CWC money is $USD500k for each game 

It's split 50% to competing club

10% to NZF

the remaining 40% goes to the other 9 clubs (or Franchises if you prefer)

So each club gets about $30k (NZD) each