3rd/4th Playoff | Brazil v Netherlands | Sunday 8am

The game no coach or player wants. But the fans do.

14 goals have been scored in this fixtures over the past 3 World Cups. Not sure it will happen again.

Brazil are involved!

This is true.

Can't imagine many Brazil players wanting to show their face! Typically tends to be the players who have barely played starting this game though, noone really wants to be there.

When Germany were hosts there was still a lot of pride to play for and for the fans - I think the Brazilians should be wanting to get out there and make amends, but go the Dutch.

Germany didn't lose the semi 7-1.

If the Dutch can score early against Brazil it's possible the Brazilian defence could capitulate again (although Silva should make a difference). I'm hoping van Gaal is thinking this way and we see far more attacking intent from his team; a team that has scored zero goals in its last 4 hours of football.

I can understand the Dutch not wanting to play, but I would have thought that the Brazilians would be dying to play this - first step to some kind of redemption

does anybody actually care about this game? Quite literally a game to fill in a rest day. 

I'm with Frankie.Brazil should really want to do well in this game.

Do they bother with penalties in this or would it just end as a draw?

That wouldn't really serve the purpose of a playoff.

Guess so, but had a feeling they didn't go to penalties in this match for some reason.

Really? They just went through the most humiliating experience of their footballing history and they're supposed to see this game as some sort of redemption or consolation?

The Brazil players would rather be anywhere else in the world. They certainly can't face going back on the field in front of their home crowd for this. I imagine it will largely be the players who didn't play in the semi anyway which may calm down some of the vitriol the crowd will give them.

When the Finals were increased to 32 teams, I thought it would be a good idea for the 3rd place play-off game to be for automatic qualification for the next tournament (along with both finalists - at that stage the winners had auto entry).  This would have made it make it a very meaningful match.  However, FIFA went the other way and stopped auto qualification even for the winners.

I know it would have meant 3 teams without meaningful qualification fixtures for 18 months, but with 4 automatic qualifiers - top 3 + hosts - there could be a "super group" of 4 that could play during FIFA windows for a trophy named after some forgotten legend of FIFA bureaucracy (ie, it would have been Brazil, Spain, Netherlands & Germany for 2012/13, - noting that the top 3 all qualified very easily without losing a match between them).

That aside, from a German perspective, the 2006 3rd place game in particular was taken very seriously.  A  chance to prove the new way and to pay something back to the fans.  Die Nationalmannschaft had not just been beaten 7-1, but had suffered a heartbreaking last minute loss to Italy.  I suspect Brazil's motivation levels will be very high.

 4 - 4 for me. Then 7 -5 end of extra time. To who doesn't matter.

Neither redemption or consolation but to show a bit of pride.

they'll just be hoping not to lose 7-1 again. Nothing else to be gained from a game like this. 

How much pride do you think it will salvage?

Some.More a case of showing they have some.

I wonder what the dressing room mood will be like, after Neymar's agent launched the all out attack on the coach via twitter

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/10256325/Brazil-boss-labelled-old-jerk-and-repulsive

A lot has been said about this game being "meaningless". If it produces good football then it is a good day for everyone.

I think for some teams it brings the best out of them. It can be about grievance ("we shoulda been playing in the final"). For other teams it is related to how they see themselves and their place in the landscape of the world football.They're happy to get that far, and knowledge of being one of the best four teams overall is a pretty good outcome.

Growing up in Poland I clearly remember our elation at beating a decent Brazil side 1:0 in the playoff for the third place in 1974 (in Germany) and then again at beating a very good French side 3:2 in the third playoff in 1982 (in Spain). In each case that was after losing the semifinal to the eventual champions. As I recall there was a lot of good feeling among us from getting a good result in the 3rd place playoffs. Maybe even more than if Poland played in the actual final and lost it. Hard to say which pain is worse, missing out on the final altogether or losing the final.

From a Dutch point of view was better for us to lose to Argentina in the semi, than Germany in the Final. Too much bad feeling towards the Germans still for historical reasons means it would be harder to bear. No historical reasons to dislike Argentinians in the same way (despite losing the 1978 final to them).

I think that there is a little bit too much sympathy for professional footballers having to play a game of football in this thread.  

Do they want to play?  I don't give a fuck. I like watching football and this is a game of football so I am happy that it is on. Also, this fixture at the last World Cup was a cracker and there is no reason why it won't be like that again.

Too right - this fixture is usually a cracker with lots of goals (21 in the last five) - and early goals.

"No third place match has seen fewer than three goals scored since Poland's 1-0 win over Brazil in 1974, while all bronze-medal games since 1994 (except for 1998) have seen four goals or more."

Last time 3-2 to Germany over Uruguay

"Just Fontaine's four for France in a 6-3 win over West Germany in 1958 sealed a never-to-be-beaten single-tournament tally of 13."

France 4 Belgium 2 1986 was a gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmfxIJ6Arm0

Sweden 4 Bulgaria 0 1994

Turkey 3 South Korea 2 2002

Germany 3 Portugal 1 2006

Early goals have been a feature:

 In the very first third-place final in 1934, Germany's Ernst Lehner hit the net in 24 seconds against Austria, a World Cup finals record that would stand until Czechoslovakia's Vaclav Masek scored after 15 seconds of a first-round game versus Mexico in 1962. In 2002, however, Hakan Sukur of Turkey blew them all out of the water with his 11-second strike against South Korea. In the third-place final. 

This Brazil goal by Nelhino in their 1978 3rd / 4th play-off win vs. Italy is one of the best of all time - amazing swerve on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNrc3TejOyI

That's some crap reffing. Should have been a red card and free kick, not a yellow and a penalty

That's good reffing - a yellow for Robben finally.

David Luiz, the world's most expensive central defender

Playing more like a target man at the moment

How fucking shit is David Luiz? Incredible.

Wow.  It's official, Brazil are pants.

#sackricki

Utter humiliation! Well done The Netherlands!

I thought the contact was minimal and warrented just the free kick and a card. Glad Robben finally got booked. David Luis's transfer value just went from 50 million to 5 million over the course of the last two games. The 2nd Dutch goal had a severe hint of offside involved. The third was a beauty though.

Brazil have conceded more goals at a 32 team tournament than any other. They beat the record previously shared by Saudi Arabia and North Korea.

Well there's a first for them. They should be proud!

think the commentary has been utter pants, incorrect , no opinions just sit on the fence waffle

think the commentary has been utter pants, incorrect , no opinions just sit on the fence waffle

Correct. John Helm is employed by the ultimate "sit on the fence" organisation; that is, Fifa. Wouldn't want to offend anybody by having an opinion and lose the gig at Fifa tv...