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Posted November 20, 2017 02:52 · last edited November 20, 2017 03:56

james dean wrote:

coochiee wrote:

james dean wrote:

I would just make a point - a lot of the praise for Hudson is to compare how much better we are now than we were against Mexico.  The games against mexico were probably the lowest point for NZ football in 15 years.  

I think a far more interesting comparison is to compare against where we "should" be given our players and resources.  I personally don't think that Hudson has overachieved, he's probably got us to about par.  We've defended pretty well against non-Oceania sides, but then we have some decent defenders.  We've struggled to score goals against non-Oceania sides which isn't great given our forward line is about as good as it's been for a long time.

But all the stuff like, "look how much we've improved since Mexico", and "he had us 90 minutes away from a World Cup" is bluster.  After Mexico, literally the only way was up.  We would have improved with anyone at the helm.  And when we start our 4 year cycle we are in practice 180 minutes away from a World Cup so I really don't see that as a massive achievement.

Sure a strong forward line by NZ standards, but a weak forward line by say the standards of a top 50 international team. Yet again Rojas was a bit player against a non Oceania side. He should be having a serious look, at why Thomas's career is starting to take off, and what he can take from that.

A couple of feet each the other way and we score two goals - Thomas in Wellington & Wood in Lima. Hudson will be having some sleepless nights as to whether he played it right with a half mobile Wood over the 2 legs. Who knows, but be interesting to see how much he plays for Burnley over next few weeks.

In article below Brockie offers some praise of Hudson (of course biased as he was belatedly recalled by the gaffer), but again continues a pretty constant theme from the playing group. As someone else mentioned above, be interesting to see what someone like Moss says (if he ever offers an insight), as he virtually never played under AH - so a completely unbiased view of his coaching abilities you'd say.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/98...

I'm sure he's a competent coach.  I'm interested in what he is going to be able to do over the next 4 year cycle to take us to the next level.  It's an obvious problem that we struggle to score goals against even moderate opposition.

He picked a team in the second leg, which I think we all knew we had to score in to qualify, with basically no goal scorers.  I personally think that has to come under some scrutiny, was the actual plan to just wait until Wood cam on to try and score?  That's an odd tactic I think 

Hudson explained it (well my interpretation) as the coaching/medico staff thought Wood was good for 45 mins (or maybe it was 75 mins if game went to ET??). Maybe there is some medical science behind likely timeframe someone can play, without further aggravating an existing hammie twinge??

Anyway his call was that if Wood started and aggravated his hammie and came off, would be a massive blow to the confidence/morale of rest of the team. Yes I can see his point somewhat if as a team mate you see one of your 3 major players limp to sideline after only say 10 mins - as could have happened. Not a great morale boost when you already feel the world is against you, in a packed Lima stadia, and you still have 80 mins to go without your main scoring source. You feel like you already have no chance after only 10 mins.

Better to feel that if you are still in the game at HT, and you have your trump card still to join the fight. So they took the view that better Wood came on in the 2nd half. Of course still no gtee Wood wouldn't worsen his injury after say only 10 mins of the 2nd half, and limp off. 

Who knows if Hudson got it right. I'd say as much a decision of Wood and the AWs medicos as Hudson.

However I firmly believe Wood wasn't 100%. I was in Lima. He barely stretched out or sprinted, did virtually no pressing and was just there to use his big body as a target man, create anxiety amongst the Peruvians - which he did. 

I'd be very surprised if he played 90 mins for Burnley at full tilt in their next game.

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Unknown editor edited November 20, 2017 03:56
james dean wrote:
coochiee wrote:
james dean wrote:

I would just make a point - a lot of the praise for Hudson is to compare how much better we are now than we were against Mexico.  The games against mexico were probably the lowest point for NZ football in 15 years.  

I think a far more interesting comparison is to compare against where we "should" be given our players and resources.  I personally don't think that Hudson has overachieved, he's probably got us to about par.  We've defended pretty well against non-Oceania sides, but then we have some decent defenders.  We've struggled to score goals against non-Oceania sides which isn't great given our forward line is about as good as it's been for a long time.

But all the stuff like, "look how much we've improved since Mexico", and "he had us 90 minutes away from a World Cup" is bluster.  After Mexico, literally the only way was up.  We would have improved with anyone at the helm.  And when we start our 4 year cycle we are in practice 180 minutes away from a World Cup so I really don't see that as a massive achievement.

Sure a strong forward line by NZ standards, but a weak forward line by say the standards of a top 50 international team. Yet again Rojas was a bit player against a non Oceania side. He should be having a serious look, at why Thomas's career is starting to take off, and what he can take from that.

A couple of feet each the other way and we score two goals - Thomas in Wellington & Wood in Lima. Hudson will be having some sleepless nights as to whether he played it right with a half mobile Wood over the 2 legs. Who knows, but be interesting to see how much he plays for Burnley over next few weeks.

In article below Brockie offers some praise of Hudson (of course biased as he was belatedly recalled by the gaffer), but again continues a pretty constant theme from the playing group. As someone else mentioned above, be interesting to see what someone like Moss says (if he ever offers an insight), as he virtually never played under AH - so a completely unbiased view of his coaching abilities you'd say.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/98...

I'm sure he's a competent coach.  I'm interested in what he is going to be able to do over the next 4 year cycle to take us to the next level.  It's an obvious problem that we struggle to score goals against even moderate opposition.

He picked a team in the second leg, which I think we all knew we had to score in to qualify, with basically no goal scorers.  I personally think that has to come under some scrutiny, was the actual plan to just wait until Wood cam on to try and score?  That's an odd tactic I think 

Hudson explained it (well my interpretation) as the coaching/medico staff thought Wood was good for 45 mins (or maybe it was 75 mins if game went to ET??). Maybe there is some medical science behind likely timeframe someone can play, without further aggravating an existing hammie twinge??

Anyway his call was that if Wood started and aggravated his hammie and came off, would be a massive blow to the confidence/morale of rest of the team. Yes I can see his point somewhat if as a team mate you see one of your 3 major players limp to sideline after only say 10 mins - as could have happened. Not a great morale boost when you already feel the world is against you, in a packed Lima stadia, and you still have 80 mins to go without your main scoring source. You feel like you already have no chance after only 10 mins.

Better to feel that if you are still in the game at HT, you have your trump card still to join the fight. So they took the view that better Wood came on in the 2nd half. Of course still no gtee Wood wouldn't worsen his injury after say only 10 mins of the 2nd half, and limp off. 

Who knows if Hudson got it right. I'd say as much a decision of Wood and the AWs medicos as Hudson.

However I firmly believe Wood wasn't 100%. I was in Lima. He barely stretched out or sprinted, did virtually no pressing and was just there to use his big body as a target man, create anxiety amongst the Peruvians - which he did. 

I'd be very surprised if he played 90 mins for Burnley at full tilt in their next game.

Unknown editor edited November 20, 2017 02:54
james dean wrote:
coochiee wrote:
james dean wrote:

I would just make a point - a lot of the praise for Hudson is to compare how much better we are now than we were against Mexico.  The games against mexico were probably the lowest point for NZ football in 15 years.  

I think a far more interesting comparison is to compare against where we "should" be given our players and resources.  I personally don't think that Hudson has overachieved, he's probably got us to about par.  We've defended pretty well against non-Oceania sides, but then we have some decent defenders.  We've struggled to score goals against non-Oceania sides which isn't great given our forward line is about as good as it's been for a long time.

But all the stuff like, "look how much we've improved since Mexico", and "he had us 90 minutes away from a World Cup" is bluster.  After Mexico, literally the only way was up.  We would have improved with anyone at the helm.  And when we start our 4 year cycle we are in practice 180 minutes away from a World Cup so I really don't see that as a massive achievement.

Sure a strong forward line by NZ standards, but a weak forward line by say the standards of a top 50 international team. Yet again Rojas was a bit player against a non Oceania side. He should be having a serious look, at why Thomas's career is starting to take off, and what he can take from that.

A couple of feet each the other way and we score two goals - Thomas in Wellington & Wood in Lima. Hudson will be having some sleepless nights as to whether he played it right with a half mobile Wood over the 2 legs. Who knows, but be interesting to see how much he plays for Burnley over next few weeks.

In article below Brockie offers some praise of Hudson (of course biased as he was belatedly recalled by the gaffer), but again continues a pretty constant theme from the playing group. As someone else mentioned above, be interesting to see what someone like Moss says (if he ever offers an insight), as he virtually never played under AH - so a completely unbiased view of his coaching abilities you'd say.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/98...

I'm sure he's a competent coach.  I'm interested in what he is going to be able to do over the next 4 year cycle to take us to the next level.  It's an obvious problem that we struggle to score goals against even moderate opposition.

He picked a team in the second leg, which I think we all knew we had to score in to qualify, with basically no goal scorers.  I personally think that has to come under some scrutiny, was the actual plan to just wait until Wood cam on to try and score?  That's an odd tactic I think 

Hudson explained it (well my interpretation) as the coaching/medico staff thought Wood was good for 45 mins (or maybe it was 75 mins if game went to ET??). Maybe there is some medical science behind likely timeframe someone can play, without further aggravating an existing hammie twinge??

Anyway his call was that if Wood started and aggravated his hammie and came off, would be a massive blow to the confidence/morale of rest of the team. Yes I can see his point somewhat if as a team mate you see one of your 3 major players limp to sideline after say 10 mins - as could have happened. Not a great morale boost when you already feel the world is against you, in a packed Lima stadia, and you still have 80 mins to go without your main scoring source. You feel like you already have no chance after only 10 mins

Better to feel that if you are still in the game at HT, you have your trump card still to join the fight. So they took the view that better Wood came on in the 2nd half. Of course still no gtee Wood wouldn't worsen his injury after say only 10 mins of the 2nd half, and limp off. 

Who knows if Hudson got it right. I'd say as much a decision of Wood and the AWs medicos as Hudson.

However I firmly believe Wood wasn't 100%. I was in Lima. He barely stretched out or sprinted, did virtually no pressing and was just there to use his big body as a target man, create anxiety amongst the Peruvians - which he did. 

I'd be very surprised if he played 90 mins for Burnley at full tilt in their next game.