General Football Discussion

France & Henry

161 replies · 35,773 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's a red card to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by foul - hand ball is not given special treatment in that instance.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zy1054 wrote:
One wonders way in the laws of our beloved game its a red card offence to use a hand to prevent a goal but not one to use one to score one aren't they just as bad?
 
Unsporting Behaviour v Deliberately preventing an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
 
I suppose you could argue that they are both as bad as each other. Hmm...
Jag2009-11-20 14:18:43

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
faie enough i was looking more in the end result a denied goal/a goal that shouldn't have been given both ways it skews the score by a goal.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Kun wrote:
I hear Ireland are going to ask for a replay? Good luck...


Can't see Septic Bladder and the rest of FIFA  giving it any consideration what so ever!

Quant � Maradona il y a bon nombre d'entre nous qui pourraient ne voir rien mal avec son but !
Kiwi Jambo2009-11-20 14:30:31

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Isn't the problem that under the existing rules France would have to agree to the replay too....
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yup, can't see it happening. Although, apparently, they are citing FIFA's own precedent , when they  invalidated the result of a World Cup qualifier between Uzbekistan and Bahrain in 2005 following a referee's critical error. Jag2009-11-20 14:31:14

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The hand-ball in itself was bad. But Henry has now admitted that he told the referee he had handled the ball. Surely that falls into the category of bringing the game into disrepute - deliberately breaking the laws, then boasting about it.
 
Henry being banned from any participation in the World Cup would be the ultimate form of karma IMHO.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Inventory2 wrote:
The hand-ball in itself was bad. But Henry has now admitted that he told the referee he had handled the ball. Surely that falls into the category of bringing the game into disrepute - deliberately breaking the laws, then boasting about it.
 
Henry being banned from any participation in the World Cup would be the ultimate form of karma IMHO.


Surely telling the referee is not the same thing as boasting about it?

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
Yup, can't see it happening. Although, apparently, they are citing FIFA's own precedent , when they  invalidated the result of a World Cup qualifier between Uzbekistan and Bahrain in 2005 following a referee's critical error.
 
That was quite different though.
 
The established precedent for a referee not seeing an incident is, basically, to say tough. Players may be subject to repercussions - seems to be reserved for violent conduct - and refs may get suspended, but the result itself always stands.
 
The Bahrain-Uzbek incident was the ref getting the laws of the game completely wrong and awarding a free kick when he should have asked for a penalty to be re-taken, after the taker's team mate encroached during a successful penalty kick.
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cheers, SiNZ. Wasn't aware of the circumstances, just read that they'd forced a replay before.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Some posts on this thread, trying to justify what Henry did saying its not worse than diving. Sure the refs should've picked it up, but Henry shouldn't have done it. Its pretty blatant its done on purpose. Its a million times worse than diving.

Too many Henry fan boys me thinks.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
Cheers, SiNZ. Wasn't aware of the circumstances, just read that they'd forced a replay before.
 
Even though it was a specific set of circumstances it came as quite a surprise that they did it. I don't know exactly how it was agreed, and may still have been a mutual agreement.
 
The irony is that Uzbekistan were the "victims" of the error, but still won 1-0. When the match was replayed, it finished 1-1.
 
If you take the second leg result as it was*, then Uzbekistan would have progressed! 
 
*Not really valid, I know, as Bahrain would have been attacking more in the second leg rather than defending a 0-0 that saw them through on away goals.
 
The funny thing for me was that playing in a Capital 4 match the following season, our ref made the exact same error - until the players convinced him otherwise. Perhaps it was the same ref and FIFA had punished him by sending from WCQ matches to Island Bay Capital 4 matches!
 
Edit: Apparently Uzbekistan asked for the match to be awarded 3-0, so the WC Organising Committee decided a replay was fairer.
SiNZ2009-11-20 15:14:14
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

http://tiny.cc/D5Pdh

Top 5: Football's worst handballs
 
1. Diego Maradona - Argentina v England World Cup, 1986
2. Leo Messi - Barcelona v Espanyol La Liga, 1997
3. John Collins - Scotland v Holland European Championships, 2006
4. Adriano - Inter v AC Milan Serie A, 2009
5. Albero Gilardinao - Fiorentina v Palermo Serie A, 2008
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Michael wrote:
Its a million times worse than diving.



Elaborate?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
2. Leo Messi - Barcelona v Espanyol La Liga, 1997
 
sh*t. I never realised Messi played for Barca at 10.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:

http://tiny.cc/D5Pdh

Top 5: Football's worst handballs
 
1. Diego Maradona - Argentina v England World Cup, 1986
2. Leo Messi - Barcelona v Espanyol La Liga, 1997
3. John Collins - Scotland v Holland European Championships, 2006
4. Adriano - Inter v AC Milan Serie A, 2009
5. Albero Gilardinao - Fiorentina v Palermo Serie A, 2008
 
 
Never!

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Michael wrote:
Some posts on this thread, trying to justify what Henry did saying its not worse than diving. Sure the refs should've picked it up, but Henry shouldn't have done it. Its pretty blatant its done on purpose. Its a million times worse than diving.

Too many Henry fan boys me thinks.


It's nowhere near as bad as diving.  The handball can result in a goal for your side.  A dive can result in a goal for your side and an opposition player being sent off.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
El-Kun wrote:
Yeah. But a goal like that is killer for your confidence. Its that "it isn't our day" kind of vibe. Yeah, they had 20 minutes, not the 93 Liverpool got after the beach ball. That's totally different when a battling team like Ireland come up against an organised (generally!) French side.


Sorry mate, but that's a cop-out. Succeeding in sport is all about overcoming adversity, not whining to high heavens about the injustice of it all. LIke I said, the Irish had 100 minutes prior to the handball to score another goal, and another 20 minutes after to do the same. They did not. If they had, none of this would have mattered. All I'm saying is, take some farken responsibility - it's the players who're in the best position to affect outcomes on the football field. If you were good enough, you had the opportunity to make a bad decision be irrelevant. You weren't. I repeat, whose fault is that?

And by the way, I'm not condoning what Henry did (nor do I codemn it). He did what he did (whether he deliberated on this in his head, or did it instinctively, or whatever), he got away with it, life goes on.
 
Yeah, but lets face it. What nation in the world loves drama, sympathy and story-telling better than the Irish?! Equally, the French had that time to score too, which they cheated (and got a jammy deflection!) In saying that, I suppose, at least they put it in the net. Yeah, Henry did what he did. Intentional, instinctive, whatever... But its still cheating and, in my opinion, its well harsh on the Irish. I'm biased, but its clearly harsh. 100 minutes before, they were happy with just getting themselves into the game, pressing the French and working hard- not going all out to overcome a 2-1 defecit that shouldn't have been anyway.
 
Sorry, this probably condradicts itself and makes no sense, but I've just had two exams and my brain is fried.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"I did not see a handball and it's only you people who are speaking about this," mumbled the only fool in France who had missed the incident, other than referee Martin Hansson and his blinked assistant of course.
 
Ah, now I see where Wenger gets it from...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
SiNZ wrote:

http://tiny.cc/D5Pdh


Top 5: Football's worst handballs

�

1. Diego Maradona - Argentina v England World Cup, 1986

2. Leo Messi - Barcelona v Espanyol La Liga, 1997

3. John Collins - Scotland v Holland European Championships, 2006

4. Adriano - Inter v AC Milan Serie A, 2009

5. Albero Gilardinao - Fiorentina v Palermo Serie A, 2008<BR itxtvisited="1">

�

�

Never!


That was surely in 1996? And how could Messi have played for Barcelona in 1997?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He is a wonderkid, you know?  Dodgy list...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
zy1054 wrote:

Surely FIFA must at least bring some sort of match ban against Henry for bringing the game into disrepute or something. If moss gets a ban for 4 matches surely this sort of blatant cheating merits some kind of repercussions. Cheating without consequences is surely not the message FIFA wants to be sending.

 
Trying to lump this in with Moss being suspended (however harshly) for giving a referee a gobful doesn't really work. Different situation.
 
Interesting tho', suspending him would send a message that the referee got it badly wrong and that, therefore, the goal should not have stood. They butchered their attempts at hammering diving recently, so I wouldn't hold my breath for much action on this. Hmm, can of worms.
 
Ireland? Suck it up and move on.


pretty hard to suck up the millions lost!!!

so what they had over a 100mins to win it. still meant they had a 50/50 chance if it went to penalties.

the fair thing to do is to replay!!!!!
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No way it should be replayed. Can't replay a match every time a ref screws something up.
 
Time to stop crying into the potatoes and move on...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No replay... Henry to be suspended and miss finals..
 
Ref to be dropped
 
Ireland to build a bridge or drink more guiness and we can move on.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Don't see why Henry should be suspended at all.
 
He's been straight up about it from the get go, and to be fair, while it was blatantly obvious, it wasn't blatantly intentional.
 
Bit of a storm in a teacup due to the stage it occured on methinks...
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Its tough, cause no precedent has been set but Fifa are all about fair play yet what he did was not fair play.

They can not replay the game it would open a box of worms.
 
Ireland are out they need to get over it.  Thiery should have to face consequeces for knowingly breaking the rules (will he... probably not)
 
After all the good things the all whites have done, my rugby mates see this, laugh and say thats why we dont follow it..
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Crespo9 wrote:
No replay... Henry to be suspended and miss finals..
 
Ref to be dropped
 
Ireland to build a bridge or drink more guiness and we can move on.


probably fair compromise there Crespo



My two cents on here

Probably worng about precent- but meh, what you gonna do, its an opinion piece not fact


Milky Pisswit- your avatar is entrancing

Salmon swim upstream

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If Rooney did this and dealt with it exactly the same way everyone would be screaming murder.Michael2009-11-20 21:00:45
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Michael wrote:
If Rooney did this and dealt with it exactly the same way everyone would be screaming murder.


I can't help but feel the exact opposite.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Crespo9 wrote:
After all the good things the all whites have done, my rugby mates see this, laugh and say thats why we dont follow it..
 
 
People often say that but it's usually not really the case. They don't follow it because they just don't like it / ain't a fan for whatever reason. Just not their cup of tea. They say that's the reason to justify their feelings on Football.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I presume all referees and lines-men will have an eye-sight check  before  WC 2010. Beware the "Hand of Frog!! 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Milky Pisswit wrote:
No way it should be replayed. Can't replay a match every time a ref screws something up.
 
Time to stop crying into the potatoes and move on...
 
True. But no need for the potato comment...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El-Kun wrote:
Milky Pisswit wrote:
No way it should be replayed. Can't replay a match every time a ref screws something up.
 
Time to stop crying into the potatoes and move on...
 
True. But no need for the potato comment...
 
Yes. A bit hard to swallow just now when the chips are down.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Colvinator wrote:
El-Kun wrote:
Milky Pisswit wrote:
No way it should be replayed. Can't replay a match every time a ref screws something up.
 
Time to stop crying into the potatoes and move on...
 
True. But no need for the potato comment...
 
Yes. A bit hard to swallow just now when the chips are down.


Henry is forever blighted by his action

Will need a thick skin to weather this storm

Dont know how successful Ireland will be with their appeel 


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1137489.html#fifa+statement+fai+request 

FIFA has today, 20 November 2009, replied to the request made by the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) to replay the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa� play-off match held on 18 November 2009 between France and the Republic of Ireland in Paris.

In the reply, FIFA states that the result of the match cannot be changed and the match cannot be replayed. As is clearly mentioned in the Laws of the Game, during matches, decisions are taken by the referee and these decisions are final.

------------------------------------------------
 
Fair enough - can you imagine what would happen if they set in place a precedent or rule where you can ask a game to be replayed every time a ref makes a mistake? Seasons would never end!
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Get your coats- the lot yers!
 
Expected, and probably fair, from FIFA.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think Henry should be reprimanded, video replay would clearly suggest it was deliberate. Expulsion from the World Cup would probably be a bit over the top, but punishment of some sort is needed to make an example.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Colvinator wrote:
El-Kun wrote:
Milky Pisswit wrote:
No way it should be replayed. Can't replay a match every time a ref screws something up.
 
Time to stop crying into the potatoes and move on...
 
True. But no need for the potato comment...
 
Yes. A bit hard to swallow just now when the chips are down.



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