General Football Discussion

How representative is the World Cup?

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How representative is the World Cup?
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Deutsche Welle article. How many countries are there and what makes a nation?

World football's governing body FIFA has 208 member countries, the UN has 192 members. But how many countries are there really and what defines a nation?

It�s a question that could spark a heated debate in a pub quiz, but even the UN can not pinpoint how many countries there were in the world.

"It is not within the UN's jurisdiction to decide that. The UN can merely decide whom it accepts as a member in the organisation," Corinne Momal-Vanian of the United Nation's Information Service in Geneva told Deutsche Welle.

In theory, it is easy to apply to the UN, the official said. "A state applies for membership and declares that it will adhere to the basic rules of the UN Charter. The Security Council examines the application and writes a recommendation. In the end, the General Assembly makes the decision."No candidate stands a chance, however, unless the five permanent members of the Security Council agree. The last country to gain entry into the UN was Montenegro in 2006 -- bringing the total number to 192 member states.

A territory, a population and a government

According to the Montevideo Convention, which in 1933 set out the rules for defining a state, there are 203 nations worldwide. But that figure should be taken with a pinch of salt, said Momal-Vanian.

"Every student of international law knows about the Montevideo Convention, which says a country must fulfil four criteria for it to be a state: it must have a territory, a population, a government and the ability to enter into a relationship with other states."

The Convention doesn't say what nations this applies to, Momal-Vanian said, but pointed out that lists of countries are often created based on the text of the Convention.

The difference between 192 UN member states on the one hand and 203 or maybe even more on the other is politically explosive: Taiwan, Kosovo, Palestine, Somaliland, Western Sahara, Northern Iraq and Northern Cyprus � every one of those names stands for an unsolved political conflict. And all of these 'geographic entities' have at some point unilaterally declared their independence.

Marcelo Kohen, professor for International Law at the Graduate Institute, Geneva, said the international community was sceptical about these secessionist territories.

"You have many secessionist movements around the world, and they can proclaim independence, but this is nothing but words," he said.

Numbering the world�s countries

Countries who are not UN member nations can boost their international profile by building up an Olympic team, or a national soccer team -- that's why the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA) has its 208 members, and there are 205 national Olympic Committees. The International Organisation for Standardization has come up with a pragmatic solution to the many geographic entities: ISO 3166/1, a list of country names by two-digit codes. DE, for instance, stands for Germany.

"Currently, there are 246 official entries," said Gerard Lang, who maintains the list in Paris. "193 of those are independent states, the remaining 53 refer to areas of geopolitical interest."The ISO code makes it easy to identify internet addresses and bank accounts with an IBAN-format all over the world. Palestine has a code, and so does Western Sahara.

There is still plenty of room for more entries. "Only half of all the possible combinations have been assigned so far," said Gerard Lang.

Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
and a stat..

Indeed during the last World Cup in Germany in 2006 experts counted no less than 26.3 billion tune-ins: i.e. in statistical terms every single one of the approximately 6 billion inhabitants on earth tuned in more than four times during the final round.

Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
dairyflat wrote:
and a stat..
Indeed during the last World Cup in Germany in 2006 experts counted no less than 26.3 billion tune-ins: i.e. in statistical terms every single one of the approximately 6 billion inhabitants on earth tuned in more than four times during the final round.



thats impressive lol

Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka

http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yep..but what is it "lies, damned lies and statistics"...  

None the less that's a HUGE number...
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great read! I wonder what are the 16 Fifa members who are not recognised by the UN? I googled without luck!
Footpaul2010-06-14 18:31:29
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
taiwan? hong kong? noth korea? maybe are some

Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka

http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UN member states

http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Footpaul wrote:
Great read! I wonder what are the 16 Fifa members who are not recognised by the UN? I googled without luck!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_Member_Associations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_member_states

if your bored, you can check

[Edit: Northern Ireland would be one]
Ryan's Rovers2010-06-14 19:15:29
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
alot of caribean fifa members arnt un members i think, caymen islands, netherlands antilles, turks and cacos islands
 
i may be wrong with that btw 
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Scotland, England, N Ireland & Wales - 4 FIFA Members who are not countries recognised by the UN.

When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Footpaul wrote:
Great read! I wonder what are the 16 Fifa members who are not recognised by the UN? I googled without luck!
 
It's in my WC sheet, where I compare FIFA, UN, and list exclusions from both - plus throw in an Olympic compatison. Copy and paste below from the relevant page:
 
2010 World Cup Entrants Of the 208 member countries of FIFA, 205 countries entered the 2010 World Cup. Of those, 6 did not eventually participate. Bhutan, Central African Republic, Eritrea, Guam, Papua New Guinea and Sao Tome & Pr�ncipe withdrew before contesting a match. The 3 countries who did not enter were Brunei Darussalam, Laos and Philippines. FIFA v The United Nations FIFA boast a membership list of 208 countries, which at first glance appears more impressive than the UN's 192. For the most part, the membership lists of each organisation are identical, but each contain members not recognised by the other. The most obvious difference is that the UN contains the United Kingdom as a single entity, as opposed to FIFA holding the constituent countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There are 7 countries in the UN that are not in FIFA: Kiribati  Marshall Islands [an US associated state] Micronesia [an US associated state] Monaco Nauru Palau Tuvalu [NB: did compete in Oceania qualifying but were not eligible to qualify!] There are 20 countries affiliated to FIFA, but not members of the UN: American Samoa [unincorporated unorganized territory of the United States] Anguilla [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Aruba [overseas country in the Kingdom of the Netherlands} Bermuda [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] British Virgin Islands  [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Cayman Islands  [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Chinese Taipei [legal status in dispute, UN considers Taiwan a province of China] Cook Islands [self-governing state in free association with New Zealand] Faroe Islands [self-governing overseas administrative division of Denmark] Guam [unincorporated organized territory of the United States] Hong Kong [Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China] Macau [Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China] Montserrat [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Netherlands Antilles [country in the Kingdom of the Netherlands] New Caledonia [dependency of France with a sui generis status] Palestine [legal status in dispute, currently recognized by over 90 countries] Puerto Rico [unincorporated organized territory associated with the United States] Tahiti [overseas collectivity of France] Turks & Cacaos Islands  [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] US Virgin Islands [unincorporated organized territory of the United States] There are 33 countries that do not belong to either FIFA or the UN: Abkhazia [de facto independent state inside Georgia] Akrotiri [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] �land [autonomous province of Finland recognized by international treaty] Ascension Island  [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Christmas Island [overseas territory of Australia] Cocos Islands [overseas territory of Australia] Dhekelia [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Falkland Islands [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Gibraltor [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Greenland [self-governing overseas administrative division of Denmark] Guernsey [British Crown dependency] Isle of Man [British Crown dependency] Jersey [British Crown dependency] Kosovo [autonomous province of Serbia and Montenegro] Mayotte [overseas collectivity of France] Nagorno-Karabakh [de facto independent state inside Azerbaijan] Niue [self-governing state in free association with New Zealand] Norfolk Island [overseas territory of Australia] Northern Cyprus [de facto independent state inside Cyprus] Northern Mariana Islands [unincorporated organized territory in political union with the United States] Pitcairn Islands [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Saint Helena [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Saint Pierre & Miquelon [overseas collectivity of France] Sinuiju [special administrative region of North Korea] Somaliland [de facto independent state inside Somalia] South Ossetia [de facto independent state inside Georgia] Svalbard [overseas territory of Norway] Tokelau [overseas territory of New Zealand] Transnistria [de facto independent state inside Moldova] Tristan da Cunha [overseas territory of the United Kingdom] Vatican City [Pontifical Commission] Wallis & Futuna [overseas collectivity of France] Western Sahara [mostly in Morocco, currently recognized by over 40 countries] This list excludes nations without states, self-proclaimed micronations, governments in exile or dependent territories without an indigenous population. There are precedents for many of these to one day compete independently in FIFA should they desire it. Recognition as independent UN members is almost certainly beyond the vast majority. FIFA v The Olympics Despite the fact that the Olympics is a collection of lots of different sports and not a single sport, like football, some people cite the Olympics as being bigger than the World Cup. With the "sports compilation" aspect of the Olympics, it can't really be compared and the World Cup is unprecedented as the World's biggest sporting competition. However, I thought it might be interesting to compare the global coverage of the membership to FIFA in a similar way to the UN section above. 205 countries hold membership status of the Olympics. Once again, the United Kingdom is represented as a single entiry, as opposed to FIFA holding the constituent countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Therefore FIFA's 208 is the same volume as the Olympic's 205. For the most part, the membership lists of each organisation are identical, but each contain members not recognised by the other. The most obvious difference is that the Olympics contains the United Kingdom as a single entity, as opposed to FIFA holding the constituent countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There are 7 countries in the Olympics that are not in FIFA: Kiribati Marshall Islands Micronesia Monaco Nauru Palau Tuvalu [NB: did compete in Oceania qualifying but were not eligible to qualify!] These are the same countries on the UN list missing from FIFA. Wikipedia have articles on the national football teams for all of these, with the exception of Marshall Islands. Technically, Tuvalu as an associate member of the OFC, did compete in the Oceania section of the 2010 World Cup Qualifying competition. They played in the South Pacific Games, which doubled as the first stage of Oceania qualifying. Had Tuvalu finished in te top three of the SPG, the fourth placed team would have been given their place in the second round group phase of qualifying. There are 7 FIFA countries that are not in the Olympics: Anguilla Faroe Islands Macao Montserrat New Caledonia Tahiti Turks & Caicos Islands Whilst not in the Olympics, Macao do compete in the Asian games. Montserrat and the Turks & Caicos Islands compete in the Commonwealth games - as do the British Crown Dependencies and various overseas territories of the UK.
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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Downey26 wrote:
alot of caribean fifa members arnt un members i think, caymen islands, netherlands antilles, turks and cacos islands
 
i may be wrong with that btw 
 
Yep
Netherlands Antilles have entered each tournament since 1958.
Cayman Islands have entered each tournament since 1998.
Turks & Caicos Islands have entered each tournament since 2002.
 
(PS All in my WC spreadsheet.)
SiNZ2010-06-16 09:02:24
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
[Netherlands Antilles have entered each tournament since 1958.
 
 
Quite a record.
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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