Trialist
3
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20
·
almost 9 years

Kia Ora,

I am a PhD. candidate based at the wonderful University of Waikato and I am currently looking for keen photographers and folks to take part in interviews. My research centres on the idea of 'diasporic fans' - basically, people who live in NZ but who support a team based overseas. I'm hoping that this will lead into interesting territory around globalisation, ethnicity, gender and identity.

If you are keen to take part, my email address is [email protected]. Flick me an email and I will forward you all the necessary info sheets.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Any chatter is welcome chatter......

Ciao!

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
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15K
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about 14 years
Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years

Tab91 wrote:

Kia Ora,

I am a PhD. candidate based at the wonderful University of Waikato

Clearly a scam.

Legend
2.1K
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16K
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about 17 years
Trialist
3
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20
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almost 9 years

No, this is not a scam. 

Been working on this project since October and tomorrow I present my full proposal which is the last step in becomming fully enrolled as a doctoral candidate. 

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
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15K
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about 14 years

Tab91 wrote:

No, this is not a scam. 

Been working on this project since October and tomorrow I present my full proposal which is the last step in becomming fully enrolled as a doctoral candidate. 

Don't worry mate - those accusations are completely tongue in cheek.
Trialist
3
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20
·
almost 9 years

Rightyo then........

LG
Legend
5.7K
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23K
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almost 17 years

I've been a QPR fan for 40 years, New Zealand born and bred. I believe it is punishment for something I must have done in a previous life. Does this help?

Trialist
3
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20
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almost 9 years

Sure does! I like the past life/punishment idea, think it could go places. Football studies lacks a certain esoteric edge to it.

If you are keen to contribute any more just email me.

Thanks!

Early retirement
3.1K
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34K
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about 17 years

Oi you lazy bastards.  Take a few minutes to help Tab and send an email.

Budgie lover
620
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2.2K
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almost 17 years

If you are a supporter of an overseas team then you should take the time to have a chat with Tegan for her research.

It only tool 30 minutes on Skype and was a very pleasant chat. 

I urge you all to do the same. Send her an email today.

Budgie lover
620
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almost 17 years

And I didn't even slag off Ipswich once!

Trialist
3
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20
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almost 9 years

liberty_nz wrote:

And I didn't even slag off Ipswich once!

Ha ha yup no mention of Ipswich whatsoever.

Thanks liberty_nz!

Trialist
3
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20
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almost 9 years

Just wantied to say thanks to everyone who has taken part/been interested in my research over the past month.

Have also got enough info to start sharing some bits and pieces.

So, here goes:

1.) Long-distance fans do show signs (actually way more then just signs) of loyalty to their chosen team. This is contrary to literature within football studies (yup, it does exist) which claims that those following a team from a distance cannot be loyal fans because they are not in the same geographic location as their team. 

2.) Everyone has an EPL team. Everyone.... Is it because we are an English-speaking nation? Is it because that's basically all that's on tv? Or is it something much deeper then that?

3.) Outside of the main centres like Auckland and Wellington, interest in local teams seems minimal. Does New Zealand lack the kind of media coverage needed to encourage support? Or do we lack the sort of culture that exists in other countries which encourages us to support our local team? I mean, I don't even know which local side I should be supporting. 

 Does anyone have any thoughts? Criticisms? Please do share.

First Team Squad
490
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1.9K
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over 16 years

Tab91 wrote:

Just wantied to say thanks to everyone who has taken part/been interested in my research over the past month.

Have also got enough info to start sharing some bits and pieces.

So, here goes:

1.) Long-distance fans do show signs (actually way more then just signs) of loyalty to their chosen team. This is contrary to literature within football studies (yup, it does exist) which claims that those following a team from a distance cannot be loyal fans because they are not in the same geographic location as their team. 

2.) Everyone has an EPL team. Everyone.... Is it because we are an English-speaking nation? Is it because that's basically all that's on tv? Or is it something much deeper then that?

3.) Outside of the main centres like Auckland and Wellington, interest in local teams seems minimal. Does New Zealand lack the kind of media coverage needed to encourage support? Or do we lack the sort of culture that exists in other countries which encourages us to support our local team? I mean, I don't even know which local side I should be supporting. 

 Does anyone have any thoughts? Criticisms? Please do share.

1.      i travel from wanganui for all home nix games not sure it is classed as long distance but it is over 2 hours each way and i am very loyal to my team.

2.     sorry to say this but i do not have an EPL team that i follow even remotley in fact i do not watch any EPL games at all, phoenix till i die and all that stuff.

3.     living in wanganui i do not support any of the two top clubs in wanganui and even though i am at the park playing or watching my mates local league team i will not go out of my way to watch city or athletic on the number one pitch.

Budgie lover
620
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2.2K
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almost 17 years

Tab91 wrote:

Just wantied to say thanks to everyone who has taken part/been interested in my research over the past month.

Have also got enough info to start sharing some bits and pieces.

So, here goes:

1.) Long-distance fans do show signs (actually way more then just signs) of loyalty to their chosen team. This is contrary to literature within football studies (yup, it does exist) which claims that those following a team from a distance cannot be loyal fans because they are not in the same geographic location as their team. 

2.) Everyone has an EPL team. Everyone.... Is it because we are an English-speaking nation? Is it because that's basically all that's on tv? Or is it something much deeper then that?

3.) Outside of the main centres like Auckland and Wellington, interest in local teams seems minimal. Does New Zealand lack the kind of media coverage needed to encourage support? Or do we lack the sort of culture that exists in other countries which encourages us to support our local team? I mean, I don't even know which local side I should be supporting. 

 Does anyone have any thoughts? Criticisms? Please do share.

1. Well, you did ask for volunteer fans to partake. Perhaps there is a high correlation of people considering themselves 'fans' (as opposed to just being a supporter) if they own a shirt or scarf.

2. Are you sure that everyone has an EPL team or an English team that they support. For instance, I support Norwich who was in the Championship last year and will be EPL this year. If you have interviewed News then his team hasn't been in EPL since 01/02. I think there might be a few things contributing to the skewing to the EPL (and I think you are on the right track with TV and English speaking). If you were to do the same study on Basketball or Baseball then I guess you would also get everyone in NZ supporting an American team (rather than a Japanese baseball team or European basketball team). Common language and TV. I would love to know the correlation of football supporters via past living arrangements or family ties as well. Here's my rough hypotheses: 

i) NZ'ers are (I'm guessing) above average travelers and the UK has historically been a destination (visas, work, language) and this is likely to create an attachment to strong cultural elements in the UK, football being a major one of these.

ii) Again guessing, but NZ has had a large immigrant population from the UK for the last 2-3 generations. Familial links back to the UK probably add to people's connection with UK football. 

I would have guessed that Italian football might have been popular. There are clear familial links and it wasn't too long ago we had exposure to Italian football on ESPN. Dutch and Scottish fitba as well.  

3. You could write a thesis on this alone. There are still a few footballing strongholds in the heartland - Napier immediately springs to mind. Perhaps Nelson, Gisborne, Christchurch, Hamilton also apply. I think the main threat to football in NZ is not Rugby, Netball or other domestic codes so much as the overseas football leagues like the EPL. You can walk a long most high streets and see a Chelsea or Man United shirt but you are unlikely to see a Phoenix, Auckland City or Team Wellington strip. You should read some of the stuff in the ASB Review and Future thread as to what people think is wrong with NZ local football. I've got lot's of thoughts as to why things are like they are and a few thoughts on approaches but most of it's been covered off by others in other threads. As far as your local team (I think you are in Hamilton, right?), you need to go and talk to Bruce Holloway [ cordwainerbull at gmail dot com]. He'll also give you a good historical perspective of football in NZ. 

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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over 12 years

Interesting points raised, particularly by Liberty NZ. Re: the selection bias, I considered responding but I didn't feel that I cared enough about any overseas team to respond. I used to support Inter Milan and I still keep an eye on their results but if I'm 100% honest the rise of the Nix has killed that for me. I just don't feel a connection to any overseas based club at an emotional level. I kind of care about how a few teams go (Inter and Union Berlin in Germany especially) but only at an intellectual level. I don't feelany emotional highs or lows based on their results the way I feel about the Nix. I follow a lot of football in Europe and enjoy watching it, and even have teams I'd rather see win than other teams. But I don't feel like I support any teams - I wouldn't buy their merchandise or describe myself as a fan.

.

Budgie lover
620
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2.2K
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almost 17 years

Well, guess I am both a Nix and Norwich fan. If they theoretically played each other I would support the Nix though.  

tradition and history
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almost 17 years

Interesting points raised, particularly by Liberty NZ. Re: the selection bias, I considered responding but I didn't feel that I cared enough about any overseas team to respond. I used to support Inter Milan and I still keep an eye on their results but if I'm 100% honest the rise of the Nix has killed that for me. I just don't feel a connection to any overseas based club at an emotional level. I kind of care about how a few teams go (Inter and Union Berlin in Germany especially) but only at an intellectual level. I don't feelany emotional highs or lows based on their results the way I feel about the Nix. I follow a lot of football in Europe and enjoy watching it, and even have teams I'd rather see win than other teams. But I don't feel like I support any teams - I wouldn't buy their merchandise or describe myself as a fan.

.

Lets hope for you sake then, that we are still in the A League in 10 years.

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
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15K
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about 14 years

Fwiw - I also chose not to reply because I didn't feel like I was part of the target demographic of supporter.

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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over 12 years

Leggy wrote:

Interesting points raised, particularly by Liberty NZ. Re: the selection bias, I considered responding but I didn't feel that I cared enough about any overseas team to respond. I used to support Inter Milan and I still keep an eye on their results but if I'm 100% honest the rise of the Nix has killed that for me. I just don't feel a connection to any overseas based club at an emotional level. I kind of care about how a few teams go (Inter and Union Berlin in Germany especially) but only at an intellectual level. I don't feelany emotional highs or lows based on their results the way I feel about the Nix. I follow a lot of football in Europe and enjoy watching it, and even have teams I'd rather see win than other teams. But I don't feel like I support any teams - I wouldn't buy their merchandise or describe myself as a fan.

.

Lets hope for you sake then, that we are still in the A League in 10 years.

I hope that for more than just my sake!

I'm not bagging people who do support Euro teams - everyone's got their reasons. Just for me personally, I don't feel that emotional connection to them. I've never been to Europe, have no family there or who have come from there except for generations ago, and I didn't grow up passionately supporting any team for any reason. A casual interest in a few teams is all I can muster up.

Trialist
3
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20
·
almost 9 years

Been a while - #phdlife and all that .... 

Anyways, has been a bit quiet on the research front (hint hint if there is anyone still listening) so I have more tidbits to thank those who have already been involved and to pique the interest of those who might want to be.

  • Football seems to be a guy thing. At a very fundamental level. What has become very clear is the rather obvious lack of women who like football. Now I didn't come into this thinking that I was going to speak to many women, I am a realist, but where are all the female fans at? As a women-who-likes-football I am a bit perplexed as New Zealand appears to have a very thriving culture of women playing football but this does not appear to be reflected in a female fan base.
  • While on the subject of 'guy things' mateship is very important. Football is not football without mates to watch World Cups, FA Cups and Champions League matches with. This seems to vary though with some fans only watching specific games that have been deemed to be important with mates. While for others they only watch games with groups of friends. What is also very interesting is that in New Zealand there don't appear to be large concentrations of fans of the same teams. So in a high school or workplace there is likely to be fans of a number of teams and this means that the ability to be the butt of jokes and be teased about your team is a key element of being a 'good' mate. 
  • I really do want to get feedback on this - what makes a fan??? Everyone seems to have a different idea about who the 'plastic' fans are and who are 'real' fans. Does buying merchandise make you a real fan or just a consumer? Does a giant tattoo help? Do you have to have seen your team play in the flesh? How do you show that you are a 'true fan'? This may be the beginning of an existential crisis............
Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years

Lots of female fans at the Nix games (although a certain ex-poster thought that they shouldn't be - but he was a bit strange).

I watch footy with whanau (Nix) or alone(on a dodgy internet stream) - there's feck all Yids or Toon supporters here anyway and no Guangzhou Fuli supporters I'm sure.

Marius Lacatus posted about what makes a fan many years back on this forum.  But for me it is:

  • A sense of entitlement
  • No other social life
  • An anorak
  • No dress sense unless it involves some club related kit ... but not shorts and socks cos that would mean being a FKW.
Marquee
970
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6.5K
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over 11 years

Junior82 wrote:

Lots of female fans at the Nix games (although a certain ex-poster thought that they shouldn't be - but he was a bit strange).

I watch footy with whanau (Nix) or alone(on a dodgy internet stream) - there's feck all Yids or Toon supporters here anyway and no Guangzhou Fuli supporters I'm sure.

Marius Lacatus posted about what makes a fan many years back on this forum.  But for me it is:

  • A sense of entitlement
  • No other social life
  • An anorak
  • No dress sense unless it involves some club related kit ... but not shorts and socks cos that would mean being a FKW.

And for many others (mostly male, including moi) : the best excuse for public swearing ever invented.

Legend
7.2K
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14K
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over 16 years

I think this forum is quite blokey. Think there are definitely female fans out there...

I'm not sure that fandom is in general. There is also a section of the population that supports teams from a family point of view.

I had an argument about being a fan requiring some kind of participation with like minded people, a dedication to not missing games and dressing or requiring some kind of outward display of loyalty or affiliation. and anything else was someone who followed a team, was kind of interested in them.

Sent your email to a friend who IMO is a fan of Stoke, but a follower of the NYY, using my own definitions. Hope he'll follow through. I used to be a...well probably fan of Manchester from Brian Robson on...but stopped after I finished school with Rooney and Ronaldo and lack of Sky/coverage I guess...Follow overseas teams who have Kiwis, but don't have an affiliation to any overseas team...

Think football is interesting here as it is a minority culture, has no real local culture that is unique (think the haka or that kind of thing) and is nice in the way that a cup of tea is as it is a reminder of Ron Manager...what gets a bit of mockage, but football in Britain...which we are closely linked to...

being a fan here is in large part echoing the culture of British teams or having a touchstone to a treasured part of British culture (apologies to the YF fans with European heritage!)

Wait, wait here you go...fandom involves belonging to an imagined community. Actually, started my first two years of Phoenix fandom while I was living overseas- I left the country on the day of their first ever game...

You have found yourself a copy of the book 'The Soccer Tribe' right? Loltastic in a serious funny way, but I guess that is all kinds of football studies! Hard to take it too seriously (but it is!!)

Trialist
3
·
20
·
almost 9 years

martinb wrote:

I think this forum is quite blokey. Think there are definitely female fans out there...

I'm not sure that fandom is in general. There is also a section of the population that supports teams from a family point of view.

I had an argument about being a fan requiring some kind of participation with like minded people, a dedication to not missing games and dressing or requiring some kind of outward display of loyalty or affiliation. and anything else was someone who followed a team, was kind of interested in them.

Sent your email to a friend who IMO is a fan of Stoke, but a follower of the NYY, using my own definitions. Hope he'll follow through. I used to be a...well probably fan of Manchester from Brian Robson on...but stopped after I finished school with Rooney and Ronaldo and lack of Sky/coverage I guess...Follow overseas teams who have Kiwis, but don't have an affiliation to any overseas team...

Think football is interesting here as it is a minority culture, has no real local culture that is unique (think the haka or that kind of thing) and is nice in the way that a cup of tea is as it is a reminder of Ron Manager...what gets a bit of mockage, but football in Britain...which we are closely linked to...

being a fan here is in large part echoing the culture of British teams or having a touchstone to a treasured part of British culture (apologies to the YF fans with European heritage!)

Wait, wait here you go...fandom involves belonging to an imagined community. Actually, started my first two years of Phoenix fandom while I was living overseas- I left the country on the day of their first ever game...

You have found yourself a copy of the book 'The Soccer Tribe' right? Loltastic in a serious funny way, but I guess that is all kinds of football studies! Hard to take it too seriously (but it is!!)

It's been really interesting to actually think about the gender dynamics of fandom. There are definitely women who play, who watch and who support. I wonder if (not that I really want to get into stereotypes here) women are less likely to go for the mental FKW-type fandom? Hmmmm.....

The idea of an imagined community is interesting and kind of an obvious one for this project - but I don't know if it is me being difficult or not but I think that there is maybe something deeper going on then 'community'? 

My supervisor gave me a copy of 'The Soccer Tribe' after our first meeting to discuss this topic. I thought it was amazing! 

Cheers for passing my details on!

Trialist
3
·
20
·
almost 9 years

Junior82 wrote:

Marius Lacatus posted about what makes a fan many years back on this forum.  But for me it is:

  • A sense of entitlement
  • No other social life
  • An anorak
  • No dress sense unless it involves some club related kit ... but not shorts and socks cos that would mean being a FKW.

Liking this definition!!

Starting XI
4K
·
3.6K
·
about 10 years

Tab91 wrote:

Been a while - #phdlife and all that .... 

Anyways, has been a bit quiet on the research front (hint hint if there is anyone still listening) so I have more tidbits to thank those who have already been involved and to pique the interest of those who might want to be.

  • Football seems to be a guy thing. At a very fundamental level. What has become very clear is the rather obvious lack of women who like football. Now I didn't come into this thinking that I was going to speak to many women, I am a realist, but where are all the female fans at? As a women-who-likes-football I am a bit perplexed as New Zealand appears to have a very thriving culture of women playing football but this does not appear to be reflected in a female fan base.
  • While on the subject of 'guy things' mateship is very important. Football is not football without mates to watch World Cups, FA Cups and Champions League matches with. This seems to vary though with some fans only watching specific games that have been deemed to be important with mates. While for others they only watch games with groups of friends. What is also very interesting is that in New Zealand there don't appear to be large concentrations of fans of the same teams. So in a high school or workplace there is likely to be fans of a number of teams and this means that the ability to be the butt of jokes and be teased about your team is a key element of being a 'good' mate. 
  • I really do want to get feedback on this - what makes a fan??? Everyone seems to have a different idea about who the 'plastic' fans are and who are 'real' fans. Does buying merchandise make you a real fan or just a consumer? Does a giant tattoo help? Do you have to have seen your team play in the flesh? How do you show that you are a 'true fan'? This may be the beginning of an existential crisis............

May be a bit late to the party but my thoughts:

I don't think football is a guy thing, just some of the social and antisocial elements of football seem pointed at guys.  E.g. as was said above about the forums being very guy heavy (maybe we just f**k around at work more), football hooliganism etc.

When it comes to NZ supporters I dont personally know any female football fans (or female any sport fans to be honest) but about half the time I have been at Nix games there have been at least 1 female within a couple of seats, So I would say they are present and active fans, just maybe not rage on the internet types.

I'd say the term fan is arbitrary and defined by everyone differently.  As far as I am concerned if you follow the scores of a team (or at least try to) then you are a fan.  But I would draw the line to supporter when you spend money on the club (whether its merch, players books, etc.) as you are supporting the club financially.

I'm a Liverpool supporter for no reason other than Dad was, and when I wanted to try following the EPL a while ago it seemed as good of a reason as any to pick them as my arbitrary team, but once you make that connection its hard to waiver.



When I got into Ice Hockey and followed the NHL closely, I arbitrarily chose a team based on a couple of youtube videos.  A couple of years later I was at a pub watching the Stanley Cup and a group of Americans couldn't believe how much I knew, or how passionate I was about my team when I had never even been to the US.  Wound up drinking the night away as they had decided I was as much a fan of my team as they were of theirs that they went to every home game of.

So where people draw the line of fan and\or supporter is extremely arbitrary, and realistically if you enjoy watching something, and go out of your way to watch it, or get enjoyment from it (seeing the stats an knowing your team won) your a fan.

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
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19K
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almost 17 years

had to laugh when I was told I wasn't a real Phoenix (and even football) fan, just because I chose to watch NZ play in cricket world cup final last season instead of going to a regular season nix game. 

Some people just use the term 'fan' to give themselves a feeling of superiority (and greater sense of entitlement) over others. 

It really is an arbitrary term. If you say you're a fan, you're a fan - whether you're a fickle fan or one who goes to every home game and pay the team $1 per win. 

Starting XI
4K
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3.6K
·
about 10 years

Tegal wrote:

had to laugh when I was told I wasn't a real Phoenix (and even football) fan, just because I chose to watch NZ play in cricket world cup final last season instead of going to a regular season nix game. 

Some people just use the term 'fan' to give themselves a feeling of superiority (and greater sense of entitlement) over others. 

It really is an arbitrary term. If you say you're a fan, you're a fan - whether you're a fickle fan or one who goes to every home game and pay the team $1 per win. 

To be fair the only way to be a real fan is to give your team $1 per win.  I kid, I made the same call last year, I love my Nix, but I wasn't missing the black caps in the first world cup final ever.


Even someone who just watches the occasional game on sky is a fan and is contributing to the long term for the club as the more casual viewers that watch football, the more sky will pay the clubs to keep it.

Fans are fans, if you care about your club in some way you are a fan. 

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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over 15 years

Fan (Yid):

Supporter:

WeeNix
80
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970
·
over 16 years

I wish I had an anorak

I've lived in England and I still don't "have" an EPL or any other team. 

(Although I have been to watch Ipswich play but it was only to keep my brother-in-law company, honest).

I'm more your general underdog supporter.. which is why I'm still a Phoenix fan after all these years.

Marquee
380
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9.6K
·
about 17 years

Junior82 wrote:

Fan (Yid):

Supporter:

Thought you were a Newcastle supporter?

Legend
3.6K
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15K
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almost 17 years

Tab91 wrote:

martinb wrote:

I think this forum is quite blokey. Think there are definitely female fans out there...

I'm not sure that fandom is in general. There is also a section of the population that supports teams from a family point of view.

I had an argument about being a fan requiring some kind of participation with like minded people, a dedication to not missing games and dressing or requiring some kind of outward display of loyalty or affiliation. and anything else was someone who followed a team, was kind of interested in them.

Sent your email to a friend who IMO is a fan of Stoke, but a follower of the NYY, using my own definitions. Hope he'll follow through. I used to be a...well probably fan of Manchester from Brian Robson on...but stopped after I finished school with Rooney and Ronaldo and lack of Sky/coverage I guess...Follow overseas teams who have Kiwis, but don't have an affiliation to any overseas team...

Think football is interesting here as it is a minority culture, has no real local culture that is unique (think the haka or that kind of thing) and is nice in the way that a cup of tea is as it is a reminder of Ron Manager...what gets a bit of mockage, but football in Britain...which we are closely linked to...

being a fan here is in large part echoing the culture of British teams or having a touchstone to a treasured part of British culture (apologies to the YF fans with European heritage!)

Wait, wait here you go...fandom involves belonging to an imagined community. Actually, started my first two years of Phoenix fandom while I was living overseas- I left the country on the day of their first ever game...

You have found yourself a copy of the book 'The Soccer Tribe' right? Loltastic in a serious funny way, but I guess that is all kinds of football studies! Hard to take it too seriously (but it is!!)

It's been really interesting to actually think about the gender dynamics of fandom. There are definitely women who play, who watch and who support. I wonder if (not that I really want to get into stereotypes here) women are less likely to go for the mental FKW-type fandom? Hmmmm.....

The idea of an imagined community is interesting and kind of an obvious one for this project - but I don't know if it is me being difficult or not but I think that there is maybe something deeper going on then 'community'? 

My supervisor gave me a copy of 'The Soccer Tribe' after our first meeting to discuss this topic. I thought it was amazing! 

Cheers for passing my details on!

late to the party on this but tab91 you should definitely read "World Cup Baby", nz author cant remember his name, describes what it feels like perfectly imo

Will come back and post if i remember the name...

Legend
3.6K
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15K
·
almost 17 years

Euan McCabe

Definitely worth reading if you can find it somewhere. 

Although it appears to be predominantly about his love of the World Cup, a large portion of it is actually about his love of Ipswich Town and what it's like to support an English team from this side of the world. 

The way he describes it really struck a chord with me, he absolutely nails it, a must read for what you are doing in my opinion. 

Trialist
3
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20
·
almost 9 years

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the "39th Game" proposal - basically it was a plan to play a 39th round of the EPL overseas. First surfaced in 2008 but has been doing the rounds every so often since.

Just wanted to know what the awesome members of this forum think - would you (theoretically, if this ever happened) go and see a 39th Game? Or is it a truly horrible idea?  Thoughts?

Tegal
·
Head Sleuth
3K
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19K
·
almost 17 years

it seems like people go and watch EPL sides to say "I saw this player/team play" - just as easily achieved with preseason friendlies. 

If those friendlies weren't selling out, then I guess you could consider taking actual EPL games away, but it's not really necessary as it stands. 

Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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over 12 years

Tegal wrote:

it seems like people go and watch EPL sides to say "I saw this player/team play" - just as easily achieved with preseason friendlies. 

If those friendlies weren't selling out, then I guess you could consider taking actual EPL games away, but it's not really necessary as it stands. 

Yeah, and it seems like it would ruin the integrity of the competition a bit - it would effectively mean that the big clubs would get an extra home game. For instance, if you had Stoke vs Man Utd in Beijing that's basically a home game for Utd in terms of crowd support at least.

Plus it just seems so crass and such a shameless marketing ploy.

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