Wanted: Fans

It's a terrible idea, it takes the league down the road of American sport where basically the fans aren't valued and the $ rules

If you love a FAPL team that much get over to England and go and see them, it's not actually that difficult to get tickets (as long as you are prepared to spend the necessary cash)

That sounds right up the EPL'S alley. There's every chance it will be announced, members will protest and it will be canned.

Some more grist for the mill ....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/03/football-sordid-adam-johnson-case-sexual-misconduct

Do you think that football has a problem?

i do not think football has a problem it is a bad choice a person made it just happens that he plays football

Not a football problem, a people problem.  Celebrities just have more opportunities and when they are caught get more flack in the media.

I'd be surprised if any international sport didnt have sex scandals, and that specific one isnt isolated to football players.

I agree - the symptom of the celebrity culture surrounding footballers. 

But in a wider sense does football have a problem or is it the media or is it society (whatever that means) in general that is to blame? - I mean I did a google image search for 'female football fans' and this was the first image that came up (and what I hate most of all is that my first instinct was to think 'well she's not a real fan' - seriously disappointed in myself right now :( )

BTW when I started typing 'female' into google and the first suggested phrase that came up was 'female dog names' - I know right?

And to answer the question that no-one is probably thinking of asking: 

The dudes .... 

I reckon if you did a Google image search for female fans of any sport you'd get similar results. Which is not to say that football doesn't have a misogyny problem, but just that it's part of a wider sexism in pro sport. Some sports are seemingly much worse - AFL and NRL spring to mind.

I think that part of the issue is young men who are used to avoiding negative consequences for their actions because of their sports talent. Another part of it is that interest in sports is not balanced on gender lines, so sports are usually environments dominated by men. Even the competitive, physical nature of sports reflects underlying social norms about masculinity. Lots of girls who are good at, or even interested in, sports will get labelled as tomboys from a young age. None of which should be used to excuse sexism in sports, but I think it's symptomatic of deeper sexism within society rather than being a stand alone issue.

Football definitely could, and definitely should, do more to address sexism within the sport though. It's a disgrace that there isn't a single woman in the FIFA executive for instance.

Not as though they're immune to accepting "donations"/taking bribes.

Never said they were. But the woman's game is huge globally and FIFA has a poor track record for dealing with it (Sepp thought they used a lighter ball FFS, let alone his comments about short shorts). I'm not in favour of quotas or anything like that because they're counterproductive, but the lack of women at the top level of administration of the game is indicative of the game's attitude towards gender issues generally.

I think it's telling in itself that whenever sexism comes up as a topic here or on my blog or Twitter, it's always exclusively men who talk about it and pass judgment on it one way or the other. That's not a criticism of anyone here, it's just an observation. But I do think it's probably symptomatic of a culture in football where women don't speak up unless it's to be one of the boys.

Selection bias there though - there are just a lot more men on football forums and blogs than there are women, so men are more likely to comment? I mean, only a few forum users on here have commented on this page, and given the ratio of men to women on this website it's not surprising that in a selection of a handful of users there would be no women. Also, the conversation about sexism was started by Tab, who is a woman.

I'm not saying your explanation is not the reason for the lack of women commenters, just that there might be other factors at play too.

I'm also well aware that some people might accuse me of mansplaining on here, but that's the risk you take being a man commenting on gender issues ;) 

I understand what you mean about selection bias but I don't think it should be dismissed that easily. That's an excuse to not look deeper. I have had the experience of raising gender issues online and getting into quite heated arguments. Often during these debates I will get private messages from women in football saying 'thanks for the support, please keep going but I can't get involved publicly'. They often tell me they are scared that speaking out would hurt them. One example of this was a scrap I got into on Twitter about discrimination and prejudice directed against women in coaching which led to a high profile female coach getting in touch and writing this: https://in-the-back-of-the.net/2014/08/15/guest-post-the-secret-football-coach/

Fair enough,  I should have read more carefully - I was really only think about this site to be honest. I think the conversation on here is at least slightly more civil and respectful but Twitter (and Facebook and news websites' comments sections) are just horrible for debating anything even remotely controversial. Sexism as a subject makes it even worse because the attacks get really personal and aggressive against women. Depressingly ironic :(

Google is not exactly the most reliable source - I mean if you were to type 'woman' into an image search I am pretty sure I know what you would get.

For me I think that it is important to reflect on it - especially as a researcher. A year into my project I got into quite a tail-spin when I started reflecting on how my gender has affected the research process. The main issue being my lack of confidence in my own fandom (caring about my team but not feeling comfortable enough to engage in banter or tactical talk). No-one has ever told me I shouldn't be a fan, and I have never ever had a bad reaction from anyone about supporting football but I must have picked that up from somewhere? 

Possibly a lack of role models? Particularly within previous research that has been done about gender and football. I mean I love the work that has been done but - as you say Enzo - it is mostly aimed at how to cope by 'fitting in' and 'being one of the boys'. Which in a sense makes sense when you are on the terraces perhaps but maybe not at a distance?

Just out of curiosity what made you think she's not a real football fan?

She looks dressed to the bit more than many do.  And it looks like she is holding a tissue to the head while throwing a cheeky look back, implying maybe she took a bottle or something to the head and is taking it like a champ.  Couldn't scream more of a football fan to me.

Sexism is such a tough conversation right now no matter which way you swing.  I've gotten into heated arguments with men over issues but tend to find myself talking to people that seem to see themselves as a "protective bubble" for women.  Demanding they can do everything men can do, but you criticize a women's created content and your a misogynist etc.  But there are also people that will staunchly take the other side too with fear their lives are being taken over by women etc.  It's all a bit shark.

To Conan's point I'm not shocked FIFA doesn't have women in their highest ranks because of how corrupt that whole system is and we all know what Blatter's sexist views are.  Hopefully they can sort that shark out, remove the corruption, then have a rejig of the whole organisation, including men and women at the top.  Women's football is awesome so should get more resource.  But that mighht be bias because the football ferns are awesome.

So are they real or not...?

Two sides to every question....

Oh well, some good material for Tab's thesis...

And we wonder why women don't comment on threads like this.

Yeah, just when the whole debate seemed civilized and reasoned...

Its' a football forum innit? 

A little late replying to this ...

There is no-one way to be a football fan - it is just unfortunate that there appears to be a hierarchy surrounding fans and one way of exploring this is to take note of those 'gut reactions' we have. With the risk of digging myself into a bit of a hole here, my reaction was based on her appearance which in itself is deeply flawed and that kind of sentiment is something that feminism (in my opinion) has sadly not explored much. Trust me - it prompted a great deal of painful self-reflection

On another tack - just while I think of it ....

NZ - on the surface - seems to be fairly accepting of women's football and women fans.

Anyone got any thoughts as to why this may be? Any experiences that suggest that it isn't?

1.Coz were' a civilized & reasonable society

2. We were first to introduce the vote for women

3. Our girls are much higher ranked internationally than our men, i.e they win more often, and we like winners

4. Girls don't play dirty

5 Women fans mean more fans and NZ football needs more fans

I think it is, up to a point, and it's getting better (probably related to how well the Ferns are doing), but it's still a bit of a veneer I suspect. I'm talking mostly about the acceptance of female footballers more than about acceptance of female fans here which may be off topic I'm not sure.

When you talk to female footballers and ask them directly, they will still often tell you that they are not afforded the same respect as their male counterparts. Changing rooms at sports fields are still mostly set up for men with urinals etc. Women's games are played on Sunday without the buzz around the clubs you get on Saturdays. Their team budgets often aren't as big as their male counterparts even when they might be playing several divisions higher than their clubs' men's first team. Their games aren't promoted as much as the men's side of their clubs.

One example is a national women's cup quarter final I attended last year that preceded a Sunday men's game. At full time, with Glenfield Rovers (eventual champions) having claimed a massive scalp, the ground announcer piped up for the first time that day and said "welcome to McFetridge Park" and proceded to read out the men's line-ups as though the women didn't exist. Might seem like a little thing to some but it sends a signal about how the women's team is valued.

I've ranted on here before about the double standards that women in coaching face. When they have a run of bad results it's assumed they are not up to it because they are women. The fact that, in any given season, there is only one female coach in the Northern League at best is explained away by saying "the best person for the job is appointed" - implying that women don't cut it.

Women's football and women fans are 'accepted' - yes. Tolerated might be another way of saying it or that could be a little unfair. But do we have equality? Not even close I suggest.

While we are talking about gender, Tab are you looking into acceptance of other genders in football as well? I have put a lot of thought into, at some point, doing something for my blog about acceptance or non-acceptance of transgender players in the game but I haven't really found a place to start yet... I'd be interested to know if you have.

Really, really good point! Being involved in one of the more 'liberal' geography departments in the country I have come across a lot of literature about transgender and gender fluidity but I have not come across anything concerning football. Which has piqued my interest (as these 'silences' tend to do).

I am pretty sure that FIFA recognised the first transgender player in 2014:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/29/ja...

But then again this is FIFA so there may have been others before her that weren't awarded the same recognition. 

I think that it would be absolutely fascinating to look into as the footballing world does at times appear very staid and conservative - at the very least at the official level. And discussions of all genders, and all sexualities, does 'trouble' some very homogeneous stereotypes of what a fan is or what a player is.

Going to do some more digging .... 

'Next Goal Wins' is a good documentary. 

Just looked up the trailer on youtube and it looks really good.

Because the Football Ferns are awesome and the All Whites are shark, I love em but they are shark.

Seems like the right thread to put this link in:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016...

Posted without comment...

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/78257845/Hotter-than-The-Sun-Kiwi-footballer-Laura-Merrin-hits-the-headlines

Going back to the "next goal wins" movie... I know about film theory and how hero characters are meant to transition in character but the journey of thomas rongen and his relationship with all of the 'murican samoan players (but especially jaiyah) was unexpected. 

If you want to talk about identity, gender and football then hard to go past it really. Also, it encompasses the diaspora as well I suppose.

yep would recommend "next goal wins" to anyone. Great story, very well done. 

Thanks is due to those who have contributed thus far, through interviews and posting to this thread. I have been overwhelmed by the positivity and support that I have received – you are awesome!

Two clear themes are beginning to emerge. The first of these is the importance of television, globalisation and technology to long-distance fans and the second theme is the importance that a fans individual characteristics and attributes have in influencing how they ‘act out’ their fandom

Building on interview data, I am about to launch into my next stage of data collection and am looking for people who would be keen to take part in ‘go-alongs’. Basically, a go-along is when a researcher literally ’goes along’ with participants and takes part in a significant activity or event.As such I will be (hopefully) tagging along with (willing) fans to watch televised matches in order to investigate how individual fans interact with global processes whilst being 'in the moment' during a game.

In the next few months we have the FA Cup final, the Champions League final, the last round of the Premier League and some competition called the Euros. So if you are planning anything around these games, or know of any plans, message me or send me an email ([email protected]) and I will forward you the necessary info. Also if any one is interested in doing an interview flick me an email as well.

Cheers!

So how far from the Tron will you 'go-along' in order to participate in the interaction?

FYI, 'Rainbow Round' in Australian sport this weekend

A rather disappointing start for an Olympics aimed at embracing diversity ..... 

http://www.outsports.com/2016/8/5/12377196/gay-chant-puto-bicha-olympics-rio