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Danny Hay's views

71 replies · 5,214 views
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well Hay may not be the greatest credentials but nevertheless they are credentials even if it was for a couple of minutes.

Lets see;

Ross Aloisi - yes old legs had very few appearance that we would like. A great Captain that was needed in the first season, but we need to move on and look for a long term player that would do more or less the same but younger.

Ahmad Elrich - Yes he was a Dud. Cut him loose. We have replaced him with Leo Bertos.

Felipe - Mmmm. . . Still popular. Possibility of a re-sign.

Richard Johnson - I would love for him to stick around. Another re-sign at least for an year.

Vince Lia - ? Not enough?

Kristain Rees - ? Can replace O'Dor?

Karl Dodd /Christie- ? One of them is likely to be replaced by Andrew Durante. But who? Their real natural position is Right back. Andrew Durante is Superior. Dodds was a quick fix in the centre, Christie was used more as a RWB, not sure he's up to it either. Personally I thought that Dodds is better than Christie.

Stephen Old - ? 2 year contract, Salary Cap pain Not up to A-League Key standard. May be more on the bench next season.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[/QUOTE]  
 She thought the standard of the game was comparable to one of the part-time professional leagues in England, [/QUOTE]
 
I wonder how many of these part-time professional league games she had actually seen to make that assessment? I know it is all subjective but there are plenty of people that think the A League standard is higher than that - so who do you believe?
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:

el grapadura wrote:
Lonegunmen wrote:
smithy246 wrote:
shabba121 wrote:
EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about that.� How many Champions League appearances do you think Dodd will get?� Not at centre back I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.

�

He was also injury prone and played more games for Wallsall than Leeds.


He didn't play many games for Leeds at all - wouldn't be surprised if the number is in single figures. And his Champions League experience consists of a 2 minute appearance as a substitute at Nou Camp with Leeds losing 4-0 at the time. Not exactly great credentials.
A lot more credentials than anyone on this forum though.Also much better credentials than Dodd, which was the original point.


Perhaps better credentials now (despite really being a passenger at Leeds, I'm sure O'Leary is thinking now that signing him was a big mistake), but Dodd can improve, while all Hay can do is write newspaper articles full of sour grapes. And play for the 'mighty' Y-tak.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Napier Phoenix wrote:
[/QUOTE]  
 She thought the standard of the game was comparable to one of the part-time professional leagues in England, [/QUOTE]
 
I wonder how many of these part-time professional league games she had actually seen to make that assessment? I know it is all subjective but there are plenty of people that think the A League standard is higher than that - so who do you believe?


agreed NapPhe

I was going to say the same.

If you look at the players in this league , many have played (recently) at a higher standard than Semi-pro.

despite the Sydney - roar semi i reckon the standard is about league 1

for example Michael bridges scored well for Carlisle but didn't fare so well against A-league defenders
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In terms of the standard of the league it is difficult to do a straight comparison because in some regards it is very good (athleticism, speed) while in some it is much lower (discipline, confidence and technique on the ball, passing fluency). I think you would find that a lot of players from leagues that the A-League is being compared to, would struggle because they lack the athleticism.
 
I generally agree with what Hay had to say (other than about Karl Dodd) but before you decide to sack those players you better be sure you are getting quality to replace them. It is not easy to attract top players who are clearly better than those up for the cull. I think they look like they are going about it the right way, immediately heading off to Europe to see what is likely to be available before making any rash calls.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

dodd was our best defender.

hay couldnt have done better
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No reason to pick on Dodd as he played well. The rest of his comments were spot on. For some reason we want to shoot the messenger instead of reading the message. If Ricki had said the same comments we would all agree with him. Would be interesting to ask the NZFC coaches what they thought and I bet they would probably be pretty close to Hay's comments. These are men that understand football at a level none of us will ever reach. Just throwing that one out there.

We need quality defenders who can defend when they are one v one to allow our attacking players to keep moving forward.

A young Danny Hay would be the best defender in the A-League. I remember his performances for Perth before he went to Leeds and got injured. He was a seriously good defender whose presence, strength and ability to play for a big man was unequalled at the time in the league. Sure the A-League is a step up but he was early 20's then. Without the bad groin how far would Danny have gone and who in the Nix or us have had anything like that career path?


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Napier Phoenix wrote:
[/QUOTE]  
 She thought the standard of the game was comparable to one of the part-time professional leagues in England, [/QUOTE]
 
I wonder how many of these part-time professional league games she had actually seen to make that assessment? I know it is all subjective but there are plenty of people that think the A League standard is higher than that - so who do you believe?
 
I know she has been watching some part-time stuff but can't be specific about how many games etc.  I have a feeling its something to do with the Wimbledon club.  As an aside, John Terry was at one of the matches watching and she managed to have a chat with him and have a photograph taken.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WellyT wrote:
In terms of the standard of the league it is difficult to do a straight comparison because in some regards it is very good (athleticism, speed) while in some it is much lower (discipline, confidence and technique on the ball, passing fluency). I think you would find that a lot of players from leagues that the A-League is being compared to, would struggle because they lack the athleticism.
 
I generally agree with what Hay had to say (other than about Karl Dodd) but before you decide to sack those players you better be sure you are getting quality to replace them. It is not easy to attract top players who are clearly better than those up for the cull. I think they look like they are going about it the right way, immediately heading off to Europe to see what is likely to be available before making any rash calls.
 
I thought Juninho made an interesting observation earlier in the season WellyT.  He said that the A-League was far too physical, even much more so than the English Premier League.  He thought that the clubs needed to put more emphasis on playing football than 'playing the man'. I guess the physicality comes about because of the lower skill level and lack of pace (i.e., if, for example, you can't beat Juninho with skills and pace, you have to bring him down).  From what I've seen of EPL games, Juninho is right. While the EPL is physical, the emphasis  is on skill and pace.  The other thing that is fascinating if you're watching an EPL game live (you can't tell from the television) is the off-the-ball movement by players.  The players are constantly moving, looking for position and space.  Their fitness must be absolutely supberb given the amount of running they do throughout a game.  My own view is that the pro players in England and Europe are not only technically better but also more athletic and faster.  But I think the A-League will get better and better, although it's currently very entertaining and exciting.   
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
WellyT wrote:
In terms of the standard of the league it is difficult to do a straight comparison because in some regards it is very good (athleticism, speed) while in some it is much lower (discipline, confidence and technique�on the ball, passing fluency). I think you would find that a lot of players from leagues that the A-League is being compared to, would struggle because they lack the athleticism.
�

I generally agree with what Hay had to say (other than about Karl Dodd) but before you decide to sack those players you better be sure you are getting quality to replace them. It is not easy to attract top players who are clearly better than those�up for the cull. I think they look like they are going about it the right way, immediately heading off to Europe to see what is likely to be available before making any rash calls.

�

I thought Juninho made an interesting�observation earlier in the season WellyT.� He said that the A-League was far too physical, even much more so than the English Premier League.� He thought that the�clubs needed to put more emphasis on playing football than 'playing the man'. I guess the physicality comes about because of the lower�skill level and lack of pace (i.e., if, for example, you can't beat Juninho with skills and pace, you have to bring him down).� From what I've seen of EPL games, Juninho is right. While the�EPL is physical, the emphasis� is on skill and pace.� The other thing that is fascinating if you're watching an EPL game live (you can't tell from the television) is the off-the-ball movement by players.� The players are constantly moving, looking for position and space.� Their fitness must be absolutely supberb given the amount of running they do throughout a game.� My own view is that the pro players in England and Europe are not only technically better but also more athletic and faster.� But I think the A-League will get better and better, although it's currently very entertaining and exciting.    


Well said.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
I'd love to volunteer as baggage boy for Ricki & Tony so long as they supply travel for me too! My passport is still valid!
 
Seriously. On my list I'd be looking at players whom are good but not getting the games at their club. One's who might be prepared to take a wage cut for a more relaxed lifestyle. We want winners of course and players who want to give their best for the Nix. Players whom are currently part of a squad but want first team football. Aged between 23 & 28 - that means they;ll give us a future and should have some serious match experience already. Players prepared to be idolised by 11K of hardcore Nix fans.
 
I think that strategy is a pretty good one Lonegunmen.  That's why I suggested a while ago that forming a 'sister' relationship with one or more clubs from the UK/Europe may be a useful idea.  It would give the Phoenix access, even on a loan basis, to players in the age bracket you suggest who aren't currently up to the level needed at home but who may prosper with a season or two in the A-League.  A lot of the better Aussie youngsters do exactly that, i.e., spend a couple of seasons developing in the A-League before being picked up by UK/European clubs.  It was interesting to see that the new club from North Queensland (the one Rufer is involved with) is looking to set up a 'sister' relationship with a top club in Brazil and one with a top club in Europe.  However LG, I'd like to see the Phoenix pick up an experienced central defender, someone in their 30s who's been around the block a few times at the highest level and who can marshall the defence and direct play from the back.  The young guys could learn alot from a player like that.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You'd think those club 'sister' arrangements would be of great benefit but I seem to recall this topic coming up once before on YF. Several people argued convincingly that such relationships hadn't materially benefited the A League clubs at all, and were therefore basically a waste of time.
 
Who those people were and what their arguments were I can't for the life of me remember! Maybe Rufer, with his contacts in European football, could make it work, I don't know.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut wrote:
You'd think those club 'sister' arrangements would be of great benefit but I seem to recall this topic coming up once before on YF. Several people argued convincingly that such relationships hadn't materially benefited the A League clubs at all, and were therefore basically a waste of time.
 
Who those people were and what their arguments were I can't for the life of me remember! Maybe Rufer, with his contacts in European football, could make it work, I don't know.
 
You're right StopOut, it did come up in a prior thread and most commented negatively on it.  I just thought it might fit in with Lonegunmen's earlier suggestion on this thread that the Phoenix could target younger players in overseas leagues who aren't yet able to establish themselves as regular players.  The A-League (and the prior Aussie NSL) certainly seems to work well for Aussie players who then get picked up by UK / European clubs.  As to the North Queensland plan to hook up with 'sister' clubs in Brazil and Europe, I don't know any specifics as to which clubs or how they see the plan as benefitting them.  But, you're right - I suspect Rufer is well connected in World football and might be able to work some relationships a lot easier than say the Phoenix could.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hay was on the mark for most of it, and i dont think he was bad mouthing Dodd, more observing a need for a leader back there...someone for him to learn off and help turn him into the world class defender (or closer to it) that he could be.


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:
At the end of the day, Hay told the club he didn't want to move to Wellington but he would be interested in commuting down via aircraft. He made his choice and has to live with it.
 
Despite my criticisms of Dodd, he's young and learning. If some of you believe he's good now, he isn't as good as he could be with the right coaching. Hay has had his day and I think he'd have been a disruption to the Nix if he had of signed up.
 
Dodd does have a future, Hay has retirment. I'd like to see the Nix sign a top quality CD for Dodd to learn from/partner with. I'd also like to see Durante here.
 
Danny Hay can f**k off. Nobody wanted him at the Phoenix this year, and we won't want him next year, even though he's using his comments to try and plant the seed of doubt about quality players like Dodd and Lia. I don't buy it, and definitely smell the ulterior motive rat in what he is saying.  f**k off and stay where you are. You're not A-league standard, so don't try and subliminally tell us that you are. We're onto you man.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...




Great laugh, thanks mate.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...
 
when he gets angry does he smash the ball beyond Row Z?

Founder

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...
 
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...


bahahah classic post, thanks dude, Sigmund leaves hay in the dust behind him. waitak has a has been defence, hay and bazeley.. come on.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...


Superb... so this is what New Zealand journalism has come to ? 

Honestly - Best. Laugh. Ever.
Hard News2008-02-01 14:14:44


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
johnnyspur wrote:
Your an idiot pao1908. danny hay is still the best defender in the country. and he plays better when he's angry. so don't make him angry because the nix just might have to play waitak in the o-league qualifiers in april. who do u think will come off better when dodd and hay are marking up at corners? i know who my money would be on. and i bet a few of the kiwi boys at the nix wouldn't mind if hay gave dodd one of his legendary elbows when the ref has his head turned! and if u want a real opinion on hay - ask smeltz about how he feels having to go up against his former AWs skipper!
so enough with your "f*** offs". show a little respect for the guy. he came out of retirement to head the nix head coach take charge of the AWs. i guess u had forgotten that...


Sigh . . not sure whether to cry or laugh. But it was sure all in good jostling.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Johnnyspur and I can beg to differ on Danny Hay's qualities.  I'm happy enough with that.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Besides, what's a good forum topic without the occasional 'handbags at 10 paces' thrown in...???
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
shabba121 wrote:
. Nobody wants to hear from Danny Hay, stick to playing in the AMATEUR league that is the NZFC old man!
 
 
Just becasue someone is not playing at professional level does not disqualify them from comment. If that were the case this forum would be shut down   . . . . .
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phil_style wrote:
shabba121 wrote:
. Nobody wants to hear from Danny Hay, stick to playing in the AMATEUR league that is the NZFC old man!
 
 
Just becasue someone is not playing at professional level does not disqualify them from comment. If that were the case this forum would be shut down   . . . . .
 
Too right; and to take the issue further, I was also led to believe that with age comes wisdom. I have enjoyed reading the insightful comments of the more established 'old men' of the forum.
 
So all you old amateurs out there keep up the chatter, the younger ones like myself enjoy reading through your nostalgia and tails of the good bad old days! After all, without knowing your history you're bound to repeat it.
 
 
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeh, hehe, I don't mind repeating the AWs getting to the World Cup finals and the Kingz finishing mid-table in their first years!

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think that Danny Hay was about right. I have been on about Dodd performing badly from the start of the season. The main reason is that I have watched him for years playing at RB and I think that is where he should be.Until he payed for the Nix I have never seen him play as a central defender.He just has not the experience to play there and hold the defence together.
As for the clowns bagging Hay for his comments, how many of you would be good enough to play 4 games for the first team at Leeds.You probably know as much about football as Danny Hay knows about brain surgery.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Leggy wrote:
I think that Danny Hay was about right. I have been on about Dodd performing badly from the start of the season. The main reason is that I have watched him for years playing at RB and I think that is where he should be.Until he payed for the Nix I have never seen him play as a central defender.He just has not the experience to play there and hold the defence together.
As for the clowns bagging Hay for his comments, how many of you would be good enough to play 4 games for the first team at Leeds.You probably know as much about football as Danny Hay knows about brain surgery.
 
Leggy, who would you say has been performing well for the Phoenix this season? Many supporters would say Dodd has been one of the team's best players. And you may be surprised to find many people commenting on this forum know a fair bit about football.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
As I said before, Dodd in my opinion was playing out of position.
The problem that the Nix have is that expectations were too high. How can you get a squad of players (top players or not) and expect them in the very first season to come up trumps.
I don't think that any player made a dick of himself.
It takes time to adjust to playing at this level as well as getting to know the players around.
For me the players that showed their talent were Moss, Smeltz, Daniel and Felipe.
The one that really surprised me was Elrich. I know that he is a far better player than he showed. Before he went to the UK his was one of the best local players in Australia. He did have a poor season by his standards, but I still rate him. Aloisi was another that never showed his true class. Danny Hay reckons that his legs are gone, I don't agree, I think he was trying too hard, to prove that Adalaide would miss him--
and they did

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Many people here acknowledge that Elrich is known to be a quality player, but ran out of patience watching him play minus the quality week after week this season. I don't accept lack of fitness after so long - not in a professional player whose job is football. I think it was more of an attitude thing for him. That seemed apparent when he would be substituted and kick or throw anything within reach in a tantrum on the sideline.
 
Dodd is a natural central defender. He has the right style of play and temperament for that position.
 
Agree about Moss, Smeltz and Daniel. Felipe disppointed though, and seemed to deteriorate as the season went on. I don't know if it was a confidence thing or what.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am not making any excuses for Elrich. He had a shocking season, but he is a much better player than he showed.
As for Dodd, he is a good RB but at this stage there is no way that is is even a half good central defender.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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