Most of us would agree with his comments about Old, and despite
Elrich's form I wonder if Hay is deliberately ignoring the fact
that Elrich isn't (as far as I know) on marquee wages.
But my main interest is in his comments about Dodd, what's going on there? Ego? Or is Dodd's play flawed in ways i and others on here haven't noticed?
And it seems that Danny has focused on Lia as a stop gap right back , not as a midfield player.
Interesting, and it confirms Marius's view that the Sunday News offers the best (if not necessarily the most palatable) Phoenix coverage on a Sunday.
But overall, despite the fact that i struggle to read criticisms of Nix players and keep a clear head, the general direction of the article is probably spot-on.
tigers2008-01-27 10:25:06
But my main interest is in his comments about Dodd, what's going on there? Ego? Or is Dodd's play flawed in ways i and others on here haven't noticed?
And it seems that Danny has focused on Lia as a stop gap right back , not as a midfield player.
Interesting, and it confirms Marius's view that the Sunday News offers the best (if not necessarily the most palatable) Phoenix coverage on a Sunday.
But overall, despite the fact that i struggle to read criticisms of Nix players and keep a clear head, the general direction of the article is probably spot-on.
tigers2008-01-27 10:25:06
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The link is dodgy...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4376319a1823.html is where it should be pointing.
smithy2462008-01-27 11:03:50
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4376319a1823.html is where it should be pointing.
smithy2462008-01-27 11:03:50
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I think Danny Hay needs to keep his conker out of it.
"Do you know who I think I am" - Needs to be said to Hay
"Do you know who I think I am" - Needs to be said to Hay
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that's pretty much how i reacted at first, but a bit of time (and
two edits
) later, I'd settled
down a bit
) later, I'd settled
down a bit
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Let's face it he's just saying what we've been saying on here for
the last few months. Except in regard to Dodd. I don't
think he's so far wide of the mark, and he has been there and done
that in world football more than most in this country.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Lonegunman will agree with his thoughts re Dodd. A fair summary. A
lot of his points have been mentioned at various stages this
season. So some people here do know what they are talking about.
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Yep LG, will be in like Flynn
but I'm still unclear what specific weaknesses either LG or others see in Dodd's play
but I'm still unclear what specific weaknesses either LG or others see in Dodd's play
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I'm still unclear what specific weaknesses either LG or others see
in Dodd's play
All that Hay seems to be saying is that Dodd isn't the guy to lead a backline - don't think he's implying that Dodd's a bad player, just that he needs a bit more guidance on the field. I would not entirely disagree with this view; I think the fact that Dodd has been our best defensive player this year doesn't mean that he's perfect or doesn't have room to improve.
Totally agree with Hay on Elrich, I'd also be tempted to release Rees, but I'd look to keep Lia and Aloisi, although I'm not sure I'd be looking at either of them as potential starters for the next season at this point.
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Is Rees relased or not? I've heard conflicting reports. I'd agree
with him about everything bar Dodd, I think him and Durante in
central defense would be an excellent base.
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Definitely agree with him.
It still hasn't been confirmed that we are resigning Felipe.
If we are then we only have openings for 2 foreign players, should they both be defenders, or should we get a marquee striker?
I'd rather get a marquee defender who can organise the backline.
We have enough youth strikers for now.
It still hasn't been confirmed that we are resigning Felipe.
If we are then we only have openings for 2 foreign players, should they both be defenders, or should we get a marquee striker?
I'd rather get a marquee defender who can organise the backline.
We have enough youth strikers for now.
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Yep you got it. It's brutal but in reality it's acurate. we'd all
like Aloisi to another year, not sure if his legs are that much
gone. But Aloisi has that captains respect, experience and
personality that is helpful to all the players. From the junior
debutants to the seniors such as Covs. If he doea retire, I think
the club should keep him on in a coaching role and make the use of
his skills and experience.
Harsh too on Rees whom for me apart from lochhead at the back
was our best defender.
Dodd, what can I say? Started off really well and then
got found out. Slow on the turn, heads the ball well but usually to
an opponent. Not alone of course, Old and O'dor weren't up to the
standards required and Plodder was a stop-gap fix at RB.
Elrich? Well we've all been saying that, Wonder goal and thats
it from him.
Smeltz desperately needs a partner. Covs was an excellent
foil. Not scoring but creating chances and dragging players away
from Smeltz. I reckon we need another Covs but 18 years younger.
Lia promised much but didtn't deliver as much as his talent could
have.
Shame Johnson isn't 15 years yonger. We need a player that can
throw himself about and remind the opposition who's da boss.
Despite what you all think of me and my views. I'm sure that
the players all went out there to give their best (even Elrich) and
although it didn't quite work out that way, they tried. And for
that I'm really happy. We never really got thrashed, not even in
our poorest performances. 4-1 being our worst score but also our
best! The noise at the stadium when we score is something I always
cheerish and when we witnessed a win for our team, the buzz around
town after the game was so noticeable.
Hay, maybe some jealousy but then it was his choice to stay in
Auckland. His loss not ours. Yet what he said needed to be said if
we want to keep going forward. Now if only Mr Hay would like to
offer some names as a solution.
For me, we need a RB, or a RWB, 2CB's and a striker. I'd be
aiming for the 24 - 28 age group and for players whom dont want to
play in snow and rain and like the lifestyle Wellington can offer
them. An understanding of English and Portugeeze would be a big
advantage.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but to be honest I
wouldn't be too worried if we don't keep Felipe. He is a brilliant
player but in midfield we have Bertos, Ferrante, Daniel, Lia, and
Elrich (who admittedly had an awful season, but I think he will do
a lot better next season). We don't really need him do we?
I agreed with most of what Hay said except about Dodd who I reckon has done a good job with our shaky defence.
I agreed with most of what Hay said except about Dodd who I reckon has done a good job with our shaky defence.
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Lia? f**k off.
Why not Lia, HP? He's still young and has shown some promise, I'd like to keep him around next season and see how he fares rather than writing him off this early, even if as just a squad player.
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I think HP meant keep lia
look at
his sig.
look at
his sig.
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If we had to let a defender go for a new defender. I think it might
be Rees because he is the only one coming off contract. I'd prefer
Old went but that would be bad for the salary cap.
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Is it just me, or does Danny Hay need to shut his mouth and face
the fact that he's not in the Phoenix squad, nor will he ever be!
Some of the things he said were true (aka. Old = crap) but I'm in
defence of his assessment of Karl Dodd, he's a young defender and
has been good this season, just happened to be poorly supported.
Nobody wants to hear from Danny Hay, stick to playing in the
AMATEUR league that is the NZFC old man!
Rant over, 
shabba1212008-01-27 15:26:25

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Do you think, shabba121, that the reason Danny Hay mentioned Karl Dodd is because Hay wants Dodd's spot in the squad?loyalgunner2008-01-27 15:35:29
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I think HP meant keep lia
look at
his sig.
look at
his sig.Yep I did. I was saying f**k off to Hay.
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At the end of the day, Hay told the club he didn't want to move to
Wellington but he would be interested in commuting down via
aircraft. He made his choice and has to live with it.
Despite my criticisms of Dodd, he's young and learning. If
some of you believe he's good now, he isn't as good as he could be
with the right coaching. Hay has had his day and I think he'd
have been a disruption to the Nix if he had of signed up.
Dodd does have a future, Hay has retirment. I'd like to see
the Nix sign a top quality CD for Dodd to learn
from/partner with. I'd also like to see Durante here.
Lonegunmen2008-01-27 19:44:23
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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How can anyone rate Rees over Dodd? Stupid. Rees is a VPL player at
best and is simply a stop gap measure.
I don't understand how people can defend Lia either - sure, he showed a little bit of promise in a couple of games but what does he really offer? He can't tackle without lunging in, isn't a great passer of the ball, not that much pace etc. He's a decent bench player/squad player but that is it. Ferrante is 2x the player he is.
Suprisingly I agreed with most of the points Hay made.
valeo2008-01-27 15:58:26
I don't understand how people can defend Lia either - sure, he showed a little bit of promise in a couple of games but what does he really offer? He can't tackle without lunging in, isn't a great passer of the ball, not that much pace etc. He's a decent bench player/squad player but that is it. Ferrante is 2x the player he is.
Suprisingly I agreed with most of the points Hay made.
valeo2008-01-27 15:58:26
a.haak

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Why is Rees getting potted all of sudden? I think he made a huge
difference to the back line from his first appearance - there was
much more stability and times were less nervous when he was on the
field.
Steven Old to go makes sense, he doesn't seem match aware and
it hasn't improved over the season.
And maybe as said above, Felipe could go - he's a good
footballer but he's made about as much impact as Juninho, due to
getting muscled off the ball.
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I presume Danny Hay wrote this in his column. He's gotta be able to
say something in his column, and good on him for commenting on the
Nix lpayers, better than most other columnists who stick to safe
generalities.
I know Hay seems close to the mix, and so it seems like sour
grapes. I cenrtainly felt this way when he left the Knights and
played against us for Perth, and played better than he had for
us!
But still I support him in making those points.
I reckon Dodd has done well, but if you look at most other
franchises, they have mean experienced centre backs who keep
everyone else on their toes, e.g. Popovic telling Renaud to do his
job in very persuasive language, on Friday night. Keep Doddy but
get a leader.
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
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Why is Rees getting potted all of sudden? I think he made a huge
difference to the back line from his first appearance - there was
much more stability and times were less nervous when he was on the
field.
Steven Old to go makes sense, he doesn't seem match aware and
it hasn't improved over the season.
And maybe as said above, Felipe could go - he's a good
footballer but he's made about as much impact as Juninho, due to
getting muscled off the ball.
Uhh, our defence may have looked better to you but how many goals did we leak? About the same as we did without him. His positioning is just as bad as Old and he gets run around very easily. He might be better in a back 4.
Juninho has the most assists in the league btw and he has only played about 1/3 of the games.
valeo2008-01-27 16:47:47
a.haak

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Why is Rees getting potted all of sudden? I think he made a huge
difference to the back line from his first appearance - there was
much more stability and times were less nervous when he was on the
field.
Steven Old to go makes sense, he doesn't seem match aware and it hasn't improved over the season.
Steven Old to go makes sense, he doesn't seem match aware and it hasn't improved over the season.
Rees is getting potted because he is the only defender coming off contract. It would be stupid for Ricki to fire Old because his salary would still count for next season (as he is on a 2 year contract) and make it harder for us to attract a better defender. Don't get me wrong I think Rees made us a ton more stable at the back but to challenge for the playoffs we need some defenders that have a bit more skill. I'd prefer to see Old or Christie go.
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
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As much as I hate to admit it, what Danny Hay said made quite a bit
of sense. Sometimes you need someone to be brutally honest.
Rickie had to recruit last year after every other A-League
side had already settled their squads. So we got quite a few, what
you would describe as "journeymen" players. Either formally good
players on their way down because of age...such as Aloisi, Johnson,
Coveny or players who struggle to excel at the A-League level
eg Old, Lia, Christie and maybe Rees.
The key word is EXCEL...if the Phoenix are to make the
playoffs next year we need more players who can perform at the very
top level, not journeymen. There is room for the like of Lia and
Rees but only as squadies to cover for injuries etc for your A
team. I am more positive than Hay. We have the core of a good
team...it may only need 3 or 4 top quality players to make it a
great team!!
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about that. How many Champions League appearances do you think Dodd will get? Not at centre back I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about that. How many Champions League appearances do you think Dodd will get? Not at centre back I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.
He was also injury prone and played more games for Wallsall
than Leeds.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about
that.� How many
Champions League appearances do you think Dodd will
get?� Not at centre back
I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.�
He was also injury prone and played more games for Wallsall
than Leeds.
He didn't play many games for Leeds at all - wouldn't be surprised if the number is in single figures. And his Champions League experience consists of a 2 minute appearance as a substitute at Nou Camp with Leeds losing 4-0 at the time. Not exactly great credentials.
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he was pretty fortunate that Leeds had about half a dozen injured
defenders at the same time
Founder
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I think Danny Hay's assessment was harsh and honest and generally
right, and most of the posts on this forum make very good
points. I don't want to criticise any specific players as I
prefer to leave the selection of the squad to Ricki and the Phoenix
management. Also, I agree with Lonegunmen when he says that
all the boys went out there and tried their best. Ricki
realises that to be successful in attracting the crowds and
sponsors (which equates to earning important revenue) he needs to
play an entertaining brand of football. Based on the 2007/08
season, the club will need to recruit several new players who
are able to perform at a higher skill level, and who have more
pace and vision, if we are to target the top four. In this
regard, the imports and marquee player will be critical decision
areas for the club. They need to be the core around which the
team is built. On Dodd, I thought he was one of the best and
most consistent performers throughout the season, particularly for
someone so young. As LG points out, he will only
get better and better if the club can recruit a classy experienced
central defender (perhaps one of the import spots). All the
best to Ricki and Tony P for their forthcoming overseas recruitment
trip. It's a tough assignment but a crucial one for the club
if we are to build from the previous season. It was also
pleasing to see Terry S comment during the week that he now better
understands what is needed to drive the club
forward. His comments indicate that he is a man with
ambition and drive, and is motivated to do well.
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about that. How many Champions League
appearances do you think Dodd will get? Not at centre back
I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.He was also injury prone and played more games for Wallsall
than Leeds.
He didn't play many games for Leeds at all - wouldn't be surprised if the number is in single figures. And his Champions League experience consists of a 2 minute appearance as a substitute at Nou Camp with Leeds losing 4-0 at the time. Not exactly great credentials.
A lot more credentials than anyone on this forum though.
Also much better credentials than Dodd, which was the original point.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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EXACTLY LG, Hay is jealous of Dodd being a younger and more
talented CB than he was/is/ever will be.
Hmm, I don't know about that. How many Champions League
appearances do you think Dodd will get? Not at centre back
I'll grant you, but still, Hay was very very good in his day.He was also injury prone and played more games for Wallsall
than Leeds.
He didn't play many games for Leeds at all - wouldn't be surprised if the number is in single figures. And his Champions League experience consists of a 2 minute appearance as a substitute at Nou Camp with Leeds losing 4-0 at the time. Not exactly great credentials.
A lot more credentials than anyone on this forum though.
Also much better credentials than Dodd, which was the original point.
I agree Smithy. Let's not simply rubbish Hay's
views. He does have experience and was certainly good enough
to interest clubs and play at a high professional level in the UK
(and probably would have done a lot better if not for his dodgy
groin). It a bit like Pim Veerbik's views the other day about
the standard of the A-League - harsh but honest, from a reputable
European coach. Let's take the criticism and move
forward. The A-League is understandably no where near
the standard of the professional stuff in the UK and Europe.
It simply doesn't have the pedigree or the money. I had a
friend from London out here in December who is a fanatical Chelsea
supporter (since being knee high to a grasshopper) and took her her
one of the Phoenix home games. She thought the standard of
the game was comparable to one of the part-time professional
leagues in England, although admittedly it was, unfortunately, one
of the less attractive games the Phoenix have played in
2007/08. However, she also really enjoyed herself and got
into the chanting etc (thought the YF were fantastic) as if
she were at Stamford Bridge. Same for me. The A-League
has been fantastically entertaining and the Phoenix have certainly
had a huge impact on my life. I'm sure it's going to get a
lot better in the next few years as youth development happens and
the competition is able to attract better imports and marquee
players. The point is, let's be realistic about what we've
got and enjoy it, and look forward to an even higher standard of
entertainment as the league progresses in the coming
years.
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I'd love to volunteer as baggage boy for Ricki & Tony so long
as they supply travel for me too! My passport is still valid!
Seriously. On my list I'd be looking at players whom are good
but not getting the games at their club. One's who might be
prepared to take a wage cut for a more relaxed lifestyle. We want
winners of course and players who want to give their best for the
Nix. Players whom are currently part of a squad but want first team
football. Aged between 23 & 28 - that means they;ll give us a
future and should have some serious match experience already.
Players prepared to be idolised by 11K of hardcore Nix fans.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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