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good article

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
good article
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

New Zealanders don't seem to do unrequited support, not when it comes to sport, in any case. We constantly bitch about our rugby team, even when they win; we sl*g off our cricketers, even when no one expects them to win, and some of us even threaten to swim to Australia when we disagree with coaching appointments.

It's a moot point whether we even understand what support really means. The the idea of remaining loyal through thick and thin and being there when it counts, rather than when the odds are overwhelmingly in our favour, seems a foreign concept for some of us. It feels as if it would only take a few stumbles from the All Blacks (the finest sporting team we've ever produced, for goodness sake) to threaten the stability of the government.

But the manner in which we treat the New Zealand cricketers is even more bizarre; as if we've forgotten where they've come from, and their slapstick history over the past 78 years. An upset here, a purple patch occasionally; there was a time when true Kiwi cricket fans had a somewhat more refined sense of perspective.

Think of it for a moment. A world record 26 years until we won our first test. All out for 26 in a test innings. Our greatest player, Bert Sutcliffe, never played in a test-winning side. Dismissed for less than 100 on five occasions during the 1958 tour of England.

It hasn't been just the distant past, either. Stephen Fleming's side was skittled for 73 at Lahore in 2002 and for 76 a couple of years later at Brisbane. The test team is accurately ranked in seventh place, one above a rabble of a West Indian side, and two above Bangladesh. Humiliation has been keen for the aptly-named Black Caps; routed in back-to-back tests in South Africa, and beaten in four of their past five outings.

The one-day side continues to frustrate, even when presented with the equivalent of a rigged draw at the most recent world cup. They failed to make the finals of last year's tri-series in Australia, they were were pasted in last summer's Chappell-Hadlee showdowns, and have not won an away series (outside Zimbabwe and Bangladesh) since 2004.

They are the great basket-cases of New Zealand sport and should always be celebrated as such. Everyone seems to be going serious on them. Take the 2007 tourists in England. The way they've been attacked since succumbing 2-0 in the test series makes you wonder what people were expecting. I mean, they'd only recently lost at home to the same opposition when bolstered by the seasoned Fleming. It was a miracle they weren't swept 3-0.

True supporters would laugh at their ineptness but take heart from several optimistic signs. For a team with the least experienced test batting line-up in the world, less experienced, even than Bangladesh (none of the specialists has played more than 10 tests), they did well to even create the occasional opportunity. They could have won at Old Trafford; that would have made the entire series an overwhelming success.

Add the suspicion that Brendon McCullum and Ross Taylor have star-quality written all over them and that Jamie How, Daniel Flynn and even Aaron Redmond have a certain steel about their bearing, and it's not hard to find something to feel good about. We should probably also remember that, outside Bangladesh, Daniel Vettori has not yet been able to call the shots from a position of batting dominance. When the runs are scored, his captaincy may well be seen a different light.

I write these thoughts from the Warwickshire home of an ardent Aston Villa supporter; a gentleman who could not have seen his team win the English premiership since the early 1980s. British sports fans seem to have a far more healthy appreciation of what support is truly about. It's not the winning, although that certainly helps. It's more the sense of identity and camaraderie. As much as defeat might hurt, they don't feel stripped of their clothes.

A case in point would have to be Leeds United football supporters, who only a few weeks ago it seems (oh, all right then, 30 years ago) were one of the finest combinations in Britain. "Glory, glory Leeds United", so the chant went up, as players such as Peter Lorimer, Eddie Gray, Joe Jordan and the abrasive Billy Bremner strutted their stuff on the continent's biggest stages.

Now the side play in what is effectively the English third division, but still the fans flock in to back their team. In fact, there were more than 36,000 present last month when Leeds lost to Carlisle in the first-leg of the playoff semifinals. They applauded their team off the pitch at halftime, despite being down 0-1. They watched as Leeds fell two behind in the second half and then rejoiced as Dougie Freeman grabbed a crucial lifeline late in the game. The final whistle couldn't be heard because of the singing.

People here are unshakeable in their support, whatever hand of cards that might be dealt. Another long-suffering group of fans come from Newcastle United, the Toon Army, who regularly cram St James' Park with 50,000 supporters, despite the most recent trophy coming in 1969. Do they care? Of course they do, but they care more about the future than the past. I mean, heavens, there are even West Ham United fans.

Maybe we need to get a grip and remember how to enjoy the journey just as much as the destination. While we're at it, we might also start appreciating the significance of the Dunkirk factor; which holds that, even in defeat there can be glory. Think of New Zealand cricket's most memorable moments: a drawn series against England in 1949; courage in defeat during the Tangiwai test of 1953 in South Africa; the close miss at Trent Bridge in 1973.

As Theodore Roosevelt once said: "It is better to be faithful than famous".

The Nix may come last again this season. If that happens, I, for one, will still be proudly drinking coffee out of my Phoenix mug. GO THE NIX!!!



I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Amen to that Cosimo
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nice sunday sermon

Allegedly

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ah, the average NZ sports fan.  I'm quoting someone - might have been off the old Knights forum! - but frankly, the average NZer has zero tolerance for losing.   Any sport that approaches a challenge should be avoided like black death.  Gezz, the All Blacks - FFS they're guaranteed a 90% chance of victory - but when they lose - the nation, as one, turns on them.  And how they turn. 
 
We're a sad bunch really.  Look at yachting.  Is it a sport that provides mouth-watering excitment?  You've got to be joking.  Does 0.1 of world's population even care who holds the "prized Auld Mug."  Certainly not.  But it provides us with what we need - you've guessed it - the 90% chance of victory clause.  That's why you care.  We care because the 90% victory clause comforts the average NZ fan, whose sporting psyche is glass-like in quality.  Yet this might not be enough.  Again it's that other 10% which disturbs Kiwis.  Even NZ's most well-known sport presenter - who should realise that in sport for every winner there's a loser - has been known to literally "go mental" when Team NZ drops a race. 
 
Ah, New Zealand.  A nation which loves sport.  But on one condition: victory must be virtually assured. 
 
Thank f**k for the Phoenix.  More of this please...
 
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

yep. I love the bit that article about the black caps - people expect them to lose, but when they do, they act all indignant and mystified - hilarious really!
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
and when they do win,instead of celebrating,we tend to say things like "well about time" or "we should have beaten them by more" (allblacks v ireland), or "yeah well of course we won,i wouldnt expect anything less"
 
Annoys the hell out of me
 
My dad watches the warriors,laughing at them when the lose saying how terrible they are etc etc,yet claims to support them when they win (especially the grand final year).

Allegedly

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:

yep. I love the bit that article about the black caps - people expect them to lose, but when they do, they act all indignant and mystified - hilarious really!


Um about the cricket two words:

John Bracewell...


otherwise 'Nix t.i.d!






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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ive supported anything new zealand as soon as I moved here from lawn bowls to mud wrestling. i couldnt care less if they were losing its still my club and ill support em throught thick and thin
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stevo wrote:
Ah, the average NZ sports fan.  I'm quoting someone - might have been off the old Knights forum! - but frankly, the average NZer has zero tolerance for losing.   Any sport that approaches a challenge should be avoided like black death.  Gezz, the All Blacks - FFS they're guaranteed a 90% chance of victory - but when they lose - the nation, as one, turns on them.  And how they turn. 
 
We're a sad bunch really.  Look at yachting.  Is it a sport that provides mouth-watering excitment?  You've got to be joking.  Does 0.1 of world's population even care who holds the "prized Auld Mug."  Certainly not.  But it provides us with what we need - you've guessed it - the 90% chance of victory clause.  That's why you care.  We care because the 90% victory clause comforts the average NZ fan, whose sporting psyche is glass-like in quality.  Yet this might not be enough.  Again it's that other 10% which disturbs Kiwis.  Even NZ's most well-known sport presenter - who should realise that in sport for every winner there's a loser - has been known to literally "go mental" when Team NZ drops a race. 
 
Ah, New Zealand.  A nation which loves sport.  But on one condition: victory must be virtually assured. 
 
Thank f**k for the Phoenix.  More of this please...
 
 
Well said Stevo. I've been spouting this myself for years. We are only good at sports that no-one else takes seriously, and that's because we can win at sports that no-one else plays. I mean, FFS, the coverage that netball gets here is unbelievable. And who plays that? Two countries. So who cares? Brendon Effing Telfer, the biggest w**ker in NZ and others with a vested interest.
Sorry, I really get worked up about this. Football here receives such a bad deal and I hate that fact.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It all makes Miss Erakovic's efforts lately even more amazing, being a truly global sport.
I might join others in mocking the black caps when they lose, but truthfully it hurts to see any NZ team perform like that. I desperately want them to win, it makes me feel sh*tloads better.
Nothing like a Phoenix win, it lifts the whole week.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd like to add Cambo to that - we mock him now but how much do we want to see him get back up there again? I watch him keenly just hoping he'll show the form of '05
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Royal wrote:
It all makes Miss Erakovic's efforts lately even more amazing, being a truly global sport.
I might join others in mocking the black caps when they lose, but truthfully it hurts to see any NZ team perform like that. I desperately want them to win, it makes me feel sh*tloads better.
Nothing like a Phoenix win, it lifts the whole week.
 
Yeah, and Marina Erakovic is getting nowhere near the coverage she deserves. That's partly because the sports reporters are too busy covering the fiasco that is netball.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ah netball. That would fall in the 90% threshold wouldn't it?
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well and truly. No-one else plays it. Their World Champs were first held in 1963, and since then no-one but NZ and Aussie have won it (Trinidad once shared the title three ways with NZ and Aussie - god knows why). It's ridiculous that we put up with the saturation level of coverage here from Teflon and his cronies.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Netball keeps Telfer going, so he covers it as much as poss. Unwanted by TV and only knowing about rugby other than netball means he's jobless without it.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And he should be jobless. It's not like he's any good at what he does anyhow.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
actually, Telfer does the morning show on Radio Sport. It's on at totally the right time, when people are at work and school. I can't stand the guy
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It has been so hard not to comment on this article .......... but I did love timeonline article.

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I wonder how NZ's non-soccer fraternity, who know Argentina's quite good where soccer's concerned, will react to this result:
 
Football Ferns  1-0  Argentina - Amber Hearn (7th)
 
 
Cheers,
 
(A delighted) JR
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Scousekiwi wrote:
I wonder how NZ's non-soccer fraternity, who know Argentina's quite good where soccer's concerned, will react to this result:
 
Football Ferns  1-0  Argentina - Amber Hearn (7th)
 
 
Cheers,
 
(A delighted) JR
 
I like you SK - but really, you're so naive...the non-soccer fraternity reaction...
 
The Small One
 
The Smug One
 
The Shameless One
 
The Confused One
 
The Nice One
 
Let's keep Radiosport honest.
Stevo2008-06-17 03:07:45
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Haha!
 
Nice one, Stevo.
 
I don't listen to Radio Rugby on principle - far too much meaningless chatter, way too many ill-informed opinions, unquestionably too much rugby, definitely too few facts.
 
 
Cheers,
 
JR
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:

A case in point would have to be Leeds United football supporters, who only a few weeks ago it seems (oh, all right then, 30 years ago) were one of the finest combinations in Britain. "Glory, glory Leeds United", so the chant went up, as players such as Peter Lorimer, Eddie Gray, Joe Jordan and the abrasive Billy Bremner strutted their stuff on the continent's biggest stages.

Now the side play in what is effectively the English third division, but still the fans flock in to back their team. In fact, there were more than 36,000 present last month when Leeds lost to Carlisle in the first-leg of the playoff semifinals. They applauded their team off the pitch at halftime, despite being down 0-1. They watched as Leeds fell two behind in the second half and then rejoiced as Dougie Freeman grabbed a crucial lifeline late in the game. The final whistle couldn't be heard because of the singing.

Season League Lowest Highest Average 2000�01 Premiership 35,552 40,055 38,974 2001�02 38,237 40,287 39,784 2002�03 35,537 40,205 39,121 2003�04 30,544 40,153 36,666 2004�05 Championship 24,585 34,496 29,207 2005�06 18,353 27,843 22,354 2006�07 16,268 31,269 21,613 2007�08 League One 19,095 38,256 26,546
 
Leeds have a very large stadium but the home attendance figures have dropped significantly if understandably since their freefall in the divisions. Also there are not that many other large or famous clubs in Yorkshire, the Sheffield teams aside, so they do have a large fan base as there is no one else to support. So it's not all that rosy at Elland Road.
 
Also the fans are not always so supportive of the club or its board I took this from a "fan" called "LeedsUnited" from a Leeds message board last year how charming:
 
"The fans have had enough of our club being shafted from every concievable direction. The fan clubs are now organising a series of protests including, a display of flowers and shirts at the Billy Bremner statue (Lowfields Road) outside the ground over this weekend. This is fairly embryonic and this will be the beginning of a series of protests aimed at showing Mr Bates that we will no longer be willing participants in his illegal actions, which go against the spirit of business, and the fair participation in the football world.
We would like to know the answers to many broken promises of new investment, the buy-back of the stadium and how Mr Bates continued to trade as the old Leeds United company, by accepting season ticket money, when this is illegal.
I would hope that Leeds fans, and fans of our beautiful game in general will support calls for the removal of Ken Bates, as it is people like him who give football a bad name.

Personally I can't wait for the chants of "Bates a c*nt, his wife's a sl*g" from the Kop for the first ten minutes of the first home game. Also planned is a protest in the Execs car park before and after this game, and possibly a protest by Leeds United fans outside the offices of KPMG in the city as the fans start arriving back in the city centre. If there are any Southend fans reading this, we would invite you to join us, this is for the football family as a whole.
The fans protests a couple of weeks ago benefited from widespread support. Mr Bates is lying to the fans, stating that "99% of the emails and letters we have recieved have been positive. Saddam Hussein didn't get that kind of approval rating and he was fiddling the figures"
This is just evidently not true.

Please contribute any messages if you are a neutral fan or even the most ardent Leeds hater, this goes beyond club rivalries, we want to be dirty Leeds again, we want to be in control of our own destiny. Cuddly Kens offshore ownership of our club, where it is answerable to no-one, is doing enormous damage to the image of our game, and sets a dangerous precedent.

Thanks"
<!-- / message -->
ForteanTimes2008-06-17 12:37:28

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TheJam wrote:
 Well said Stevo. I've been spouting this myself for years. We are only good at sports that no-one else takes seriously, and that's because we can win at sports that no-one else plays. I mean, FFS, the coverage that netball gets here is unbelievable. And who plays that? Two countries. So who cares?
 
You forget that netball is very popular in THIS country and (I think) the most popular woman's game here. so it deserves the level of coverage it gets. The same way that baseball and gridiron get the level of support it deserves in the US.
 
Lament all you like about football coverage in NZ, it probaby gets what it deserves. I can watch all the football I want on the pay channels, football fan that I am doesn't mean that I want to watch Petone vs Western Suburbs on TV.
 
What is it that you expect from the sports media in NZ? If you're after balanced and fair coverage, then you would share that same argument with some rugby fans at the moment.
 
It's not worth having kittens over, enjoy what you've got.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:

yep. I love the bit that article about the black caps - people expect them to lose, but when they do, they act all indignant and mystified - hilarious really!
 
na Cos its more that they keep doing stupid sh*te. I think James Marshall would make a great test number 3, I think Adam Parore would make a great number 3 if only he would give up the keeping, I think Brendon McCullum would make a great number 3 if only he would give up the keeping, I think we should get Steve Rixon back, nothing like making a fast bowler like Shane Bond your whole bowling strategy youth is better than experience....yayayayayyayayayyay
 
battered wife syndrome your average cricket fan really


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