Maddaford takes a swipe...

64 replies · 2,497 views

over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

See what your saying Muso but technically the Phoenix wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the work that Seatter and NZF put with the A - League.

I think the stronger argument here is that the Phoenix can do more for NZ Football by having a successful season and generating interest and PR over a 5-6 month season rather than the sideshow football will be at the Olympics

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Why not do well at both?

Instead of looking like we dont care about NZF by not making players available

Allegedly

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Be better for the club if our top scorer from last season and our best left sided defender were in the squad from day 1

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Haha amazing the 2 differences between tv1 and tv3 news.

TV1 ACTUALLY had football only because it was negative...saying we were releasing only 2 players for the tournament

TV3 argued both sides. Saying its a view shared by clubs all round the world,showed more of tonyp's comments about it. TV3 pointing out that we were releasing 3 players for the tournament and if 2 more were released that would be a quarter of our squad

Allegedly

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I thought we were sposed to be keeping score between TV1and TV3 this season. Mind you, kind of pointless when it's something like 13-1 to TV3. Game over.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Thought the TV 3 item was very balanced and fair to the Nix - released 3 U23 players, couldn't release 2 more as would mean 1/4 of squad released - club vs country an issue faced by all professional teams.

Well done TV 3 and Tony P.

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I can just imagine the stink on these forums if the Phoenix had let all 5 players go and then proceeded to have a bad start to the season.So lets see some people including those in the media would be happy for us to lose nearly a 5th of our team.To me thats just asking for trouble and certainly not something i would have been happy with.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Well, if the Olywhites are still looking for an over 23 defender, I'll go. I'm into third rate tournaments!

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Oi Oi Edgecumbe wrote:

Well, if the Olywhites are still looking for an over 23 defender, I'll go. I'm into third rate tournaments!

Now there's an interesting point. No one in the NZ media seems to realise how 'unimportant' relatively the olympics is to football. . . .

I saw the Herald article and it reads like the tabloids. There's no real discussion, it's more like a letter from a reader than a proper piece of journalism or reporting.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Here is Freddy Woodcock's article from the dompost

Shane Smeltz admits he was slightly shocked when he first discovered his dream of representing New Zealand at the Beijing Olympics was dashed, but says he now understands and accepts the Wellington Phoenix's decision not to let him go.

The club's stance not to release Smeltz and Tony Lochhead, first reported in The Dominion Post on May 21, returned to the headlines this week with an official release from New Zealand Football, polarising opinions nationwide.

The Phoenix have agreed to release under-23 players Greg Draper, Costa Barbarouses and Troy Hearfield (Australia) but are under no obligation to release over-age players such as Smeltz and Lochhead because the Olympics are not deemed important enough by Fifa to dedicate an official international window.

The pair, key starting members for the Phoenix, spoke about the decision for the first time yesterday, expressing their obvious disappointment but toeing the party line by saying they had come to terms with the decision.

"The last campaign we tried to get there when I was under 23, didn't quite make it, so it was a second chance to go, but unfortunately not the right circumstances," left back Lochhead said.

Striker Smeltz added: "Obviously it's a major sporting event in the world, so I think any athlete would love to go, but the circumstances with the club, I can fully understand where they are coming from, so we've come to the agreement not to go."

He said he was initially "shocked" at the thought of not being released for Beijing, "but now I've got my head around it and I just want to leave it behind and concentrate on what we've got to do this season".

Lochhead understood the club's position and said he had not lobbied to go to Beijing. "Obviously I would have loved to have gone, but it's not for the right reasons, so unfortunately I can't make it."

Smeltz said it was important for the club to make an impact on the field in the A-League and the start of the season would be crucial to their hopes.

"We're putting in the hard work now and I understand we're a big part of the team. We've decided to stick here and do it together."

While there is an argument to suggest country should always come before club, few clubs around the world would even consider releasing top players for the Olympics.

The pair would have missed six weeks of the pre-season and possibly the first few A-League matches, something that the Phoenix believe would be too detrimental.

Celtic striker Chris Killen and former Fulham midfielder Simon Elliott have been confirmed as two of the three eligible over-age players in coach Stu Jacobs' squad, with Blackburn Rovers captain Ryan Nelsen's availability still up in the air.

Smeltz and Lochhead would have been next cabs off the rank should Nelsen not be released.

Meanwhile, the Phoenix are a step closer to signing attacking midfielder Adam Kwasnik from A-League rivals the Central Coast Mariners. An announcement is expected either today or tomorrow.

Kwasnik, who has scored 15 goals in 62 A-League matches, is believed to have turned down an offer from the Mariners and will sign a one-year deal with the Phoenix.

TELL US:

What do you think? Should the Phoenix have made Shane Smeltz and Tony Lochhead available for Olympics selection, or should they be concentrating on the A-League? E-mail your thoughts to sport@dompost.co.nz --------------------

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I don't think the Olympics audience is anywhere near big enough (for football) to release the players. I scarcely even bother to look at what's going on during olympics/commonwealth games and personally I don't believe that team games that have professional leagues should even qualify for the Olympics.

What's better for NZ Football - The Phoenix starting the season with two key players or fielding the best possible team in a world competition that noone takes seriously. Sure it would be a great experience for the boys to go to the Olympics with the atmosphere and everything, but like others have said we have more to gain by the Phoenix doing well.

By the by - which Australian overage players are going?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If the Olympics Football is so important then someone name the last 3 Olympic champions. I can hear all of you stop and think and now everyone is diving for google - that's cheating. How about just the last one. I know I couldn't. That's how important it is. No-one has even mentioned that it's not actually a FIFA sanctioned tournament which is why it is the clubs decision whether the players can be released or not.

I have to say that Maddafords article is the poorest piece of journalism I've seen in a long time. And let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story. As well as all the points mentioned so far, the t**ser also talks about Ronaldinho and Kaka going to the Olympics. Well AC Milan have already blocked Kaka so he won't be going and Barca have told Ronaldinho he can leave the club so they are not likely to block a player who won't be at the club next season. Hardly a basis for comparison to Lochhead and Smeltz.

I think having either of these 2 away during the most important part of pre-season would be a disaster. Yes, they might be able to get back for the first game but they will have missed the opportunity to build combinations and learn team patterns so the impact would be felt for several weeks after their return. This is a vital season in which the Nix have to do as well as possible to build on last season and truly capture the public support. In that respect I totally support the clubs stance.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Nigeria. Cameroon. Argentina.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I am glad someone else can see it for what it is a second rate event. This is not an important date for the footballing calendar!

Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe.
20/5/20

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

dairyflat wrote:

I am glad someone else can see it for what it is a second rate event. This is not an important date for the footballing calendar!

yes it is a 3rd rate football tournament but i think from an athletes perspective its a bit bigger than football. its about going to the olympics. i understnad the reasoning behind not letting them go and lets be honest it nelsen gets released the whole thing becomes moot. but this was a chance to go to the olympics, which i may be overly sentimental, but its a bloody big thing. so yes the tournament doesnt really matter but for an athlete its a chance to attend something bigger than a football tournament.

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I agree that it's pretty low in the minds of football followers but put 'Olympic' before the word 'football' and suddenly New Zealanders who dislike the game take notice. It is also, as has been pointed out, very important for the athletes themselves. I'm starting to rethink my postion but really, to the public of New Zealand this is big, there'll be more coverage of the Olympic teams than there will when the All Whites make the Confederations Cup.
Critical_Lemon2008-06-25 17:06:26

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

All this speak of Olympics and the chance to raise the profile of football in NZ is bollocks. The only sports that NZers notice is the ones we win medals in, andeven then they forget about them as soon as the Olympics are over until it's six months before the next Olympics.
The sports in which we don't win any medals hardly rank a mention, and are either laughed or scorned at.
Much more important for the Phoenix to play well and hold its own in the A-league than worry about a Mickey Mouse tournament that's simply an excuse for a holiday and a party(at least for over-23 players).

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think we should have made Lochhead available.
No point letting Smeltz go when the U-23s have plenty of strikers, including Chris Killen.

I don't suppose Stu Jacobs can request Vicelich or Chris James or David Mulligan instead at this point?

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

Thats actually a fair point. Maybe the NZ public wont care about it as much as i think...who knows. Am now undecided on that.

Even so,it is negative publicity that we wont release players to help NZF out. The kingz/knightz were highly criticised for this and in the minds of some people we are now going down the same path,which can be the start of a downward slope for the club.

Maybe the club should have waited to see if Nelsen was made available before making such a decision public? Because it could well have been that Nelsen can play and this isnt an issue at all. By announcing this now it has made it an issue

Allegedly

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Malky wrote:

I completely agree with Malky and with LF1.....the pre-season and the start to this season is too important to the Phoenix, Smeltz and Lochhead are too important to the Phoenix and the Olympics aren't a serious football tournament.

In the short term the exposure for NZ football would be good, but the continued growth and rise of the Phoenix and in particular the Kiwi players within the professional set up that is the Phoenix will far outweigh that.

The benefits to the junior ranks of NZ football will be having a successful team to aspire to playing in at home in a professional competition and start a career that earns them a good living from playing football. This will have a knock on effect with more Kiwis playing top level football in the next 5-15 years and we will then have an All Whites team that can qualify for successive World Cups.....

I fully support the Phoenix's decision and admire Smeltz and Lochhead for coming out and explaining their sides the way they have......

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think it should have been up to the players. If they wanted to go, they should have been released. We expect (and get) help from NZF, they should expect, and get, the same in return. For NZF players it could well be the biggest tournament they ever attend. And it is a FIFA tournament isn't it? That's why u23 players who are selected must be made available. And I don't think we as NZ football fans are in a position to judge what is and isn't a "major" football tournament. Every international tournament we play in is important to us.

I understand the Phoenix position but that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Doesn't take away from a poorly written article that draws its own conclusions independent of the facts.

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Maddaford has never written a decent article on football in NZ yet. I had an email exchange with him some 3 years ago and because he's seen more National League games than anyone else in NZ, that makes him an undisputable authority on all things NZ Football....

(tongue firmly planted in cheek)

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