the Sparc that ignites NZF

the Sparc that ignites NZF

from the article on the front page, it looks like NZF might be about to 'get a bomb up them'

Sparc have the money, though so did FNZ  - til they spent it all (and some)

Sparc have some expertise - FNZ have shown little evidence of financial nous

Is a move to Asia just around the corner?

What's Alan Jones up to?

Is the NZFC threatened by a return to 'club' football?

Should we fan the flames, or piss on the fire?

Interesting aye.  Sounds like SPARC-NZF relations have been at a low ebb.

Not sure about the return to club-based national league though.  From my, limited, recollection the NZFC has been a stronger, more professional, competition than the old National League was.

That's true about the NZFC being better, but still quite a divide between that and the A-league.  I don't think NZ has the depth to support a club-based national league of the same quality.

I don't think we can support a club competition either - Australia couldn't and had to move to franchise system, so it's even less likely we could.  The parocahlism between clubs is more deterimental - heck even rugby doesn't have a national rugby club competition - granted, part of that is historical.

Is the NZFC all round better though? Sure, Auckland, Waitak, Welly are better, but are teams like Canty and Otago?

Sparc is missing the point, success builds growth, nothing will see a rise in grass level particapation and support than New Zealand qualifying for big tournaments.

It's certainly significantly better supported here.

I'm inclined to agree, '82 for us older types was great for the way it made football a topic of conversation in NZ - to a similar extent that the Nix have here in Wellington

the profile of the game was probably at it's highest ever

most of us knew we were in for 3 losses, but the goals against Scotland were cheered heartily

and had the admin not stuffed things up (or so it appears from memory) we could have built on the interest

It's amazing how things just fell away again post-'82. What more could you have asked for as a platform on which to build the game up here, especially with all the interest and public support behind it at the time.

sacking Adshead and Fallon, still seems one of the stranger marketting decisions in world sporting history - NZFA 

whatever their faults - they were the face of football alongside Sumner. Woodin, Turner and Rufer

NO NO NO Not again can we pretty please put this one to bed once and for all.gets depressing to see in rehashed again and again and again.

I was in Spain at that World Cup and I can categorically reassure you that I wasn't f*****g cheering, heartily or otherwise!
Jag2008-02-11 22:37:17

Guess someone must have told you that you were there cause doubt that you would remember it.

I remember bits of it fairly well..........

I'm probably running in the opposite direction to most of the posts on this thread, but I think Allan Jones is absolutely right (and it's a viewpoint he's expressed many times previously).

I think axmfc is onto some good points there in that last post.

Hard News2008-02-13 16:51:47

Spud, Fixed quote tags.

I will say this though, the NZFC is a significantly better competition than the previous club competition as it stood prior to the NZFC.  The football is better, the crowds are bigger, and (you would hope) less clubs are wasting money trying to get promoted out of the regions.

I suspect my last post isn't correct, but it should have been one of the flow-on impacts.
Hard News2008-02-13 16:56:07

I'm sorry Hard News you are so very wrong re NZFC. Spud2008-02-13 17:53:58

The whole issue of a franchise system versus club-based football in NZ is a complex one.  The problem is that neither has been proven to work very well.

i can't see how a club competition would produce a higher standard - more passion from the fans perhaps but smaller crowds and lower quality of players, i would have thought

i do think we need a national competition (even if this only provides an illusion of maturity for the sport, i'd be loathe to give that illusion up)

re the all whites (plus womens and youth) qualifying via oceania, I'm slightly swayed by some of the arguments against this - but at least it puts players like Gleeson etc in the shop window

the call for better coaching and more intense training regimes for the better youth players is hard find fault with (hard also, i expect, to find either enough martyrs or alternately enough money to pay them to give up their day jobs)

finally in this little splurge, if success breeds success the sooner FNZ listen to Terry S and Tony P the better - it doesn't have to be a case of them joining the board (they need to be focussed on the Nix) but surely listening to them would add to the FNZ board's 'wisdom'

Having attended games in every centre (bar the South Island) the crowds in Auckland are comparable. No one watches Waitak, and at Kiwitea, Auckland sometimes get more than Central used to. Hamilton never had a National League side but Melville were lucky to get 100 to a match, Tauranga, not much better.

Hawkes Bay and Napier City Rovers are pretty much the same and have the same base, and Manawatu seem to have about the same at the Arena that the predecessor used to have at the Memorial ground.

Team Wellington gets a significantly larger crowd than Miramar ever did and are a world different.

I can't comment on what has happened to Canterbury, but in the first few seasons at English Park they were the leagues pin-up boys for crowds, and finalists.  A lean season now doesn't suddenly mean the death of Canterbury football.

Did you honestly get 'excited' about Miramar ?  All I heard was people saying I'm not supporting them because they were a rival club at all divisions of local football.  I suspect the truth is that unless you are Miramar you were never excited by National League football, let alone Team Wellington. 

There are some valid points, but I don't see how writing off the NZFC and returning to it's predecessor helps anyone, apart from a few big ego's running clubs that like to chuck hundreds of thousands of dollars on players for a meaningless competition.  I think the NZFC is the answer, it just needs to be done a lot better, a lot more professionally and perhaps more independently from NZ Football's core business.

I will add that a second A-League side is a dream requiring someone of offensive wealth to put up the $$.  Terry turned up at the last minute after a nationwide search.

I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on that being replicated anywhere.

Hard News, what do you think about doing away with a national competition altogether (either club or franchise based) and diverting the resources into the grassroots for the next several years, with the carrot for players being to one day play professionally in the A-League or further afield?  To me it seems better to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent each year on a very weak national competition on the grassroots and truly developing NZ football for the future.

I'm not sure if 'changing' the emphasis to grass roots is going to do the trick either. I believe that any national body should be putting money into elite teams and youth development with a view to getting enough young talent to come through to the elite level. All other participants in the game should be 'user pays'.

It seems like the Hawke's Bay might be putting quite a bit of effort into its juniors and youth Napier Phoenix.  But is it enough and is it being replicated on a national scale, I don't know.  But it does appear to me that something extra needs to be done because NZ is simply generally not producing any talent at the senior level, either technically or athletically.

[QUOTE=axmfc]Hard News, what do you think about doing away with a national competition altogether (either club or franchise based) and diverting the resources into the grassroots for the next several years, with the carrot for players being to one day play professionally in the A-League or further afield?  To me it seems better to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent each year on a very weak national competition on the grassroots and truly developing NZ football for the future.

I can remember that, but it was 25 years ago.  To state that is a viable model 25 years later isn't realistic in my view.

give me time HN, im only young...

anyways, back on topic the NZFC has the opportunity and potential to be a very good competition with decent support. guys like Danny Hay and a few others are guys who many of us grew up (or grew old) and dreamed of following (or our children following) in their footsteps when it came to playing professionally overseas. surely having an ex AWs skipper is a drawcard?

i dont know what the advertising is like in other areas but in chch there doesnt seem to be much advertising. in the press on a saturday there seems to be an advert in the sport section for home games, but it seems to be a bit of a waste as its only about 75mm x 75mm (havent got one infront of me so going off memory) and it just doesnt draw attention...so often i skip over it and then kick myself when i miss the game (if i couldve gone)

i will admit i am not a fanatic follower of Can U, work commitments clash with the home games which seem to always be on a sunday arvo, but im not that upset about it. the last time i went to EP to watch them was a crap experience, a few of us tried to make a bit of noise to support them and got told by some pensioners to "zip it". TBH i'd much rather get along to watch the local comps in the winter as in some cases the players are people i met when i played or ex members of the teams ive coached

Just a little aside to Spud's comments. I've won a prize off of WOF - quite good really. So they do have winners :)

From a CL Club administrator point of view, the thought of having to finance a National League campaign is a nightmare. It almost ruined Welly United a few years ago and I can't see how any other club could do it on their own nowadays apart from maybe Wests. Its even worse these days given the financial muscle of ACFC and Waitak. They would squash us. The income just isn't there for clubs outside the trusts and I can't see them forking out to individual clubs if they won't even fully fund TW.

Fat?  Trimmed from NZF?  Surely not!

One of my major problems is that this doesn't happen, instead you get some clubs who chuck money at players to win a local competition and do nothing to develop facilities or youth.

How do you force them on how they spend the dollars like this ?

Another thought.  How would the best from a region ever get a profile to take them to further things ?  The Phoenix couldn't sign someone from the Otago region because just because you score 30 for Caversham you have no method of knowing how strong a competition is without a wider spread to judge it against.
Hard News2008-02-14 14:15:02

You're right Hard News.  Regional clubs (and probably NZFC teams) throw too much money away on paying players who, based on their skills and ability to entertain, simply don't merit any payment.  Why pay a guy for turning up a couple of nights a week to train and to play once a week where he shows us he can't even trap a ball?  It's hard earned money going down the drain, which would be better spent on grassroots development.  How do you stop it?  Perhaps the answer is simply for NZF to sanction the practice, i.e., impose a $0 salary cap.

I think it is all very well crapping on about the NZFC ... but lets face it football in New Zealand needs heroes...

Sorry for not replying earlier, Citylink having probs. I agree with HN, player payments at CL and below are a blight on the game. I would love NZF to strictly enforce an amateur system, that would blow some egos away. For the record I've spent money this year on coaching and training kit. Barrie Truman, Mark Taylor and Ross are all qualified, add the Newtown facilites to the package and we have something. The idea is for players from 2nd team level up to have access to good coaching so that if they are good enough and ambitious enough they can step into the TW environment prepared. Importantly Stu will know they are prepared. However I'm quite happy to contribute to TW as an A member club and I know that they pay the players and that's fine because they are the elite and work damn hard. So that's where our money goes, no one forced us to do it, but other clubs probably need a nudge down that path.

Martinb, you're absolutely right about the game here needing heros like Smeltz who the youngsters can look up to.  The question is how can we best develop in the long-term (because it's not a short-term fix) a high number of talented kiwi professional footballers.  There's only so much money / resources available.  So how do you allocate the resources, e.g., do you currently focus on the All Whites or do you concentrate on implementing a programme that will develop some real serious All White players in the future?