So i'm doing an assignment for a religion paper (which i've discovered that I don't need to have taken at all but hey I may as well pass right) on "Is New Zealand a Christian nation?"
As a result i've been looking at our last census (2006) and seeing that various forms of Christian religion made up 50% of respondents, and the next highest was "no religion" at 32%. I did some more research and based on age it suggested that the oldies were more likely to be Christian, and the young ins were more likely to have "no religion".
Although i'm personally a Christian I don't bring this up to start a war over who believes what or preach to you, you can get that on Sunday morning on TV3. However I did want to ask those of you who responded as being of "no religion" as to how NZ being labelled as a Christian nation sits with you?
I have no pre-meditated expectations of responses, i'm genuinely interested to hear what you have to say
As a result i've been looking at our last census (2006) and seeing that various forms of Christian religion made up 50% of respondents, and the next highest was "no religion" at 32%. I did some more research and based on age it suggested that the oldies were more likely to be Christian, and the young ins were more likely to have "no religion".
Although i'm personally a Christian I don't bring this up to start a war over who believes what or preach to you, you can get that on Sunday morning on TV3. However I did want to ask those of you who responded as being of "no religion" as to how NZ being labelled as a Christian nation sits with you?
I have no pre-meditated expectations of responses, i'm genuinely interested to hear what you have to say
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It sits badly, because it is a generalisation.
I couldn't really give a toss about one set of beliefs versus another, but (insofar as I care at all) I think it's presumptuous to call New Zealand a Christian nation (or a Muslim nation, or a Hindu nation) just as it would be presumptuous to call New Zealand a white nation, even though most of us are white.
It sounds a lost nicer if the adjective you use is a positive one (New Zealand is a green nation for example) but it's still fairly silly to generalise.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I think a Christian Nation is wrong, a nation of christians (well a majority anyway) carries with it more accuracy.
But I dont really care either way in all honesty.
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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I find it hard to believe you can be a Christian AND a gooner! How do you sleep at night?
Seriously - agree with Smithy. Obviously being a Christian one associates with a firm belief in God/Christ. If you take away that pre-requisite then the values could apply to any other "mainstream" religious leaning and hopefully are ones that most of society buy into.
Pagan-ly yours
The Order of Wor Sir Bobby, his son Alan Shearer and the other one; King Kev.
(Yiddo branch)
Seriously - agree with Smithy. Obviously being a Christian one associates with a firm belief in God/Christ. If you take away that pre-requisite then the values could apply to any other "mainstream" religious leaning and hopefully are ones that most of society buy into.
Pagan-ly yours
The Order of Wor Sir Bobby, his son Alan Shearer and the other one; King Kev.
(Yiddo branch)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Probably stating the obvious but I think the reason we are labelled a Christian nation is because in the early 1800's we were founded on psuedo-christian beliefs (I say Psuedo because I don't think the 6th commandment was go to another country, steal the locals land and tell them to piss off when they ask for it back).
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When the Queen visited our shores many years back Dun Mihaka showed his Christianity by "turning the other cheek". 
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Yeah it's an interesting concept. I mean what does a Christian state mean? Like think of Iran as a Muslim state where the Islamic religion dominates their social, political, and private arenas, where as for us Christianity doesn't dominate our social, political, and private areanas...hmmm
@Junior82...I can be a christian and a gunner, because they play the kind of football I wanna play in heaven
(cheese for the week!)
@Junior82...I can be a christian and a gunner, because they play the kind of football I wanna play in heaven
(cheese for the week!)
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Secular country. Period.
Watched Bill Maher's Religulous found it funny and interesting. Think it's on Google Video actually... link, although won't be very helpful to this project... I don't think.
Watched Bill Maher's Religulous found it funny and interesting. Think it's on Google Video actually... link, although won't be very helpful to this project... I don't think.
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Completeley depends on the lens through which you look at the question, Brumby's.
Your original post suggests a fact based worldview approach, which is limited of course (just because people identify with a religion, doesn't mean they practice other than at Easter and Christmas, so are they qualified 'Christians'?).
A values based worldview might argue that 'middle New Zealand' has elements of Christian values, yet there may be a declining number of people in that cohort who identify with the religion.
I assume Linds is taking a legalistic/ NZ state worldview :-)
A historical worldview might argue that the Canterbury Society and high conversion rate by missionaries before 1840s settlement is indicative of a Christian society.
And a post-modern/structural pair of specs would resist any kind of meta-narrative/universal truth that seeks to oppress minority religions....
(I listened to too many Bad Religion LPs as a spotty teenager....)
Your original post suggests a fact based worldview approach, which is limited of course (just because people identify with a religion, doesn't mean they practice other than at Easter and Christmas, so are they qualified 'Christians'?).
A values based worldview might argue that 'middle New Zealand' has elements of Christian values, yet there may be a declining number of people in that cohort who identify with the religion.
I assume Linds is taking a legalistic/ NZ state worldview :-)
A historical worldview might argue that the Canterbury Society and high conversion rate by missionaries before 1840s settlement is indicative of a Christian society.
And a post-modern/structural pair of specs would resist any kind of meta-narrative/universal truth that seeks to oppress minority religions....
(I listened to too many Bad Religion LPs as a spotty teenager....)
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Completeley depends on the lens through which you look at the question, Brumby's.
Your original post suggests a fact based worldview approach, which is limited of course (just because people identify with a religion, doesn't mean they practice other than at Easter and Christmas, so are they qualified 'Christians'?).
A values based worldview might argue that 'middle New Zealand' has elements of Christian values, yet there may be a declining number of people in that cohort who identify with the religion.
I assume Linds is taking a legalistic/ NZ state worldview :-)
A historical worldview might argue that the Canterbury Society and high conversion rate by missionaries before 1840s settlement is indicative of a Christian society.
And a post-modern/structural pair of specs would resist any kind of meta-narrative/universal truth that seeks to oppress minority religions....
(I listened to too many Bad Religion LPs as a spotty teenager....)
Your original post suggests a fact based worldview approach, which is limited of course (just because people identify with a religion, doesn't mean they practice other than at Easter and Christmas, so are they qualified 'Christians'?).
A values based worldview might argue that 'middle New Zealand' has elements of Christian values, yet there may be a declining number of people in that cohort who identify with the religion.
I assume Linds is taking a legalistic/ NZ state worldview :-)
A historical worldview might argue that the Canterbury Society and high conversion rate by missionaries before 1840s settlement is indicative of a Christian society.
And a post-modern/structural pair of specs would resist any kind of meta-narrative/universal truth that seeks to oppress minority religions....
(I listened to too many Bad Religion LPs as a spotty teenager....)
Impressive HH! you've just raised the level of this whole website to an exponential level of n (where n is a large number).
For double points you will need to use the word "theodolite" in proper context in your next post....
Pote Sniclair
Mastermind Quizzmeister and connoisseur of breakfast table spreads
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I'm confused as to which "God" is actually defending New Zealand???
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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I'm confused as to which "God" is actually defending New Zealand???
�
Any one will do as the SAS are currently in Kabul.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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"theodolite"
Sounds like a Headline from the back page of The Sun...
"THEODOLITE! NORWICH RESERVE KEEPER KEEPS A CLEAN SHEET!!!"
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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"Theodolite - another clean sheet and master of all he surveys."
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Could depend on context.
Compared to Iran we are a pretty Christian nation. Compared to Vatican City we're not.
Compared to Iran we are a pretty Christian nation. Compared to Vatican City we're not.
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I don't think there's much need to classify a nation based on a faith. It needn't be called Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheistic, Zoroastrian (such a cool word) or anything.
I suspect Christianity has a greater influence than any of the other religions, but why umbrella everybody under the title of 'Christian nation' when large numbers are not?
I suspect Christianity has a greater influence than any of the other religions, but why umbrella everybody under the title of 'Christian nation' when large numbers are not?
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I don't think there's much need to classify a nation based on a faith. It needn't be called Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheistic, Zoroastrian (such a cool word) or anything.
I suspect Christianity has a greater influence than any of the other religions, but why umbrella everybody under the title of 'Christian nation' when large numbers are not?
I suspect Christianity has a greater influence than any of the other religions, but why umbrella everybody under the title of 'Christian nation' when large numbers are not?
That's my arguement. I'm also suggesting that in the case of Iran they are an Islamic state where religion reigns over the top and its justified, where as for us it's not. However i'm going to look at our historical links, and also discuss the changing of moral stands around prostitution, gay marrage, abortion etc (none of which i'm against either)...
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I think the concept of "christian nation" has historical roots more than anything else. In popular parlance it really means "a nation most heavily influenced by protestant/roman catholic heritage". Which, I would say, is a fairly accruate description of New Zealand.
However, I would also argue that as a STATE, NZ is secular. In terms of its current official policy, and in terms of reflecting the will of New Zealanders generally - there is no overwheming and consistent religious framework that is "representative" of New Zealand.
Of course there are deeper questions:
1. does state = nation?
2. Is NZ even a nation, or just a state contaning nation(s)
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I am a Jedi, like my father before me!
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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NZ is a drunken nation
I like tautologies because I like them.
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I would interpret "state" as form of governance and we have a 100% secular government.
Whilst some politicians are elected on a religious ticket (Peter Dunne, Jim Anderton) once elected there religious views are restricted to a moral stance as they cant be argued or put forward to justify a argument any other way. If more people wanted religious beliefs interpreted into law, then the electoral system would reflect this with a more significant form of representation.
One current argument that government has to face is Maori groups who claim, land is sacred to them, and certain areas are Tapu. whilst they are protected to an extent with the same rights as any other church group, claiming something is "sacred" is also culturally sensitive, but other religious groups are not afforded this ability to "claim" something from their past based on cultural significance. Does this imply that part of our government is non-secular?
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I am a Jedi, like my father before me!
Sword Fight!!!
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I am a Jedi, like my father before me!
Sword Fight!!!
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I think a Christian Nation is wrong, a nation of christians (well a majority anyway) carries with it more accuracy.
But I dont really care either way in all honesty.
A nation of christians is more personal though,and implies everyone in the nation is a christian.
A christian nation is a generalisation,which means not everyone falls under the scope of it.
But meh,wording.
Allegedly
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Thats a fair call Tegal!
I think we do pretty good for those with beliefs to be able to share them, but I think because of our form of government there is no one able to take over or enforce them upon anyone...
I think we do pretty good for those with beliefs to be able to share them, but I think because of our form of government there is no one able to take over or enforce them upon anyone...
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I am a Jedi, like my father before me!
Sword Fight!!!
Wrong again UberGunner, it is the Schwartz!
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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Church AND state - anagram for "Castrated hutch"
Church OR state - anagram for "A crotches hurt" or "Thatcher scour"
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I am a Jedi, like my father before me!
Sword Fight!!!
Wrong again UberGunner, it is the Schwartz!
May the 4th be with you.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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NZ is not a Christian nation.
I'm sure less than 50% call themselves Christian (last I heard it was around 30%).
It's sad that people believe in religions, are intolerant of others, and afraid of what will happen when we die.
But that seems to be human nature.
I'm sure less than 50% call themselves Christian (last I heard it was around 30%).
It's sad that people believe in religions, are intolerant of others, and afraid of what will happen when we die.
But that seems to be human nature.
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How can anyone NOT believe in religions? ie they are socially constructed forms of control that obviously exist.
Whether the associated deity exists however....HarryHotspur2009-10-08 16:24:50
Whether the associated deity exists however....HarryHotspur2009-10-08 16:24:50
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NZ is not a Christian nation.I'm sure less than 50% call themselves Christian (last I heard it was around 30%).It's sad that people believe in religions, are intolerant of others, and afraid of what will happen when we die.But that seems to be human nature.
I belong to two faiths: Church of Toon and the Divine Light of Audere est Facere.
Both are very tolerant of other beliefs and ways of doing things. EXCEPT FOR GOONERS - they are a blight on the world.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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NZ is not a Christian nation.I'm sure less than 50% call themselves Christian (last I heard it was around 30%).It's sad that people believe in religions, are intolerant of others, and afraid of what will happen when we die.But that seems to be human nature.
I belong to two faiths: Church of Toon and the Divine Light of Audere est Facere.
Both are very tolerant of other beliefs and ways of doing things. EXCEPT FOR GOONERS - they are a blight on the world.
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Pay attention to the Audere est Facere bit there UG.
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Pay attention to the Audere est Facere bit there UG.
I had to google that...bloody spurs. St Tottenham day will happen on Feb 5 this year lads, a birthday present to me hand delivered by a Cesc Fabregas hattrick!
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Pay attention to the Audere est Facere bit there UG.
I had to google that...bloody spurs. St Tottenham day will happen on Feb 5 this year lads, a birthday present to me hand delivered by a Cesc Fabregas hattrick!
That's not very Christian of you Brumbys!
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Hahahaha i'm pretty sure Jesus would have given me a high 5 for that call!
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Hang on tho' wasn't Jesus Yiddo?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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