Anyone else been following the hilarious "controversy" that Simon Sweetman started in his Dominion Post music blog - Blog on the Tracks: Fat Freddy's Drop
I have to say I agree with Simon's original comments and it's great fun seeing all the angst at a Kiwi sacred cow getting skewered.
I have to say I agree with Simon's original comments and it's great fun seeing all the angst at a Kiwi sacred cow getting skewered.
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Ignoring whether I agree with his position, I thought his comment:
...was patronising clap trap.
The whole point of music that hits you is you can't 'back up' the position, and I can't see why you should have to when given the third degree by a self-appointed arbiter of musical taste. It hits you and you sometimes love or like it and that line makes me think he just doesn't get it.
That line alone undermined the rest of what was as obvious a piece of fishing as me on an Aus football forum and I have not read a word of his self-aggrandising rubbish since.
(and mostly it was just a claim: few who claimed to love the band ever seemed able to back it up)
...was patronising clap trap.
The whole point of music that hits you is you can't 'back up' the position, and I can't see why you should have to when given the third degree by a self-appointed arbiter of musical taste. It hits you and you sometimes love or like it and that line makes me think he just doesn't get it.
That line alone undermined the rest of what was as obvious a piece of fishing as me on an Aus football forum and I have not read a word of his self-aggrandising rubbish since.
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Isn't a blog (as opposed to a review) by definition self-aggrandising, a place to just toss around opinions?
The quote you selected was actually just an aside within another reference that I thought was more relevant:
And I'm sure he was fishing but just look at the catch! The angst! The outrage! How dare he!
Fat Freddy's Drop = Shihad = The Kings of Leon = The Emperor's new clothes.
terminator_x2009-04-14 21:56:43
The quote you selected was actually just an aside within another reference that I thought was more relevant:
There was a period there where, living in Wellington, unless you
claimed to love Fat Freddy's Drop it could feel like you were trapped
in The Quiet Earth.
And I'm sure he was fishing but just look at the catch! The angst! The outrage! How dare he!
Fat Freddy's Drop = Shihad = The Kings of Leon = The Emperor's new clothes.
terminator_x2009-04-14 21:56:43
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I like that Clip of FFD's - "Ray Ray". Not too sure how they relate to each other but the tune is cool and the clip is brilliantly surreal.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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My issue with sweetman is he confuses reviews and opinions. When he does album or gig reviews he always seems to come out with "well I thought it was rubbish but everyone else enjoyed it so they must be suckers". Thats not an objective review that I would expect from a decent paper from a guy who does tend to know a bit about music. I don't know anyone who respects his opinion enough to get any value from a "what does simon sweetman like" review.
On a blog, well that's the place for his own personal musings. Again though, does he really carry enough weight to make big calls like that, i.e. does anyone actually care about his opinions?
I agree sometimes popular music takes on a life of its own but sitting outside in the sun, drinking beer and smoking, that's what FFD is made for. If he doesn't get that, then he doesnt get FFD
Normo's coming home
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I can see that yeah, on a lazy sunny day, as background music, they are good. But as the main attraction at a gig, they are too dull to command attention.
Particularly liked the following from Simon:
But one of its largest audiences sat with wines and beers and chatted while FFD coasted along. I could hear the chatter of people, rigid in their seats, discussing whether it would rain tomorrow, and who would be picking Susie up from camp. But then, when each "song" finally concluded there were hoots of applause, fits of clapping and nods of approval.
I can best describe it as: the largest collection I have ever seen of people prepared to pay $60 for the privilege of ignoring a bland band that is incapable of connecting with its audience only to then worship them when there was a vague idea that each song might be ending.
If you're going to a live gig, you should be engaged by it. Lashings of drugs shouldn't be required to enjoy it.
Perhaps they could try doing a live soundtrack to a film sort of thing a-la Asian Dub Foundation with La Haine.
That would probably suit them more than being the main act.
And they cannot write lyrics to save themselves!
Particularly liked the following from Simon:
But one of its largest audiences sat with wines and beers and chatted while FFD coasted along. I could hear the chatter of people, rigid in their seats, discussing whether it would rain tomorrow, and who would be picking Susie up from camp. But then, when each "song" finally concluded there were hoots of applause, fits of clapping and nods of approval.
I can best describe it as: the largest collection I have ever seen of people prepared to pay $60 for the privilege of ignoring a bland band that is incapable of connecting with its audience only to then worship them when there was a vague idea that each song might be ending.
If you're going to a live gig, you should be engaged by it. Lashings of drugs shouldn't be required to enjoy it.
Perhaps they could try doing a live soundtrack to a film sort of thing a-la Asian Dub Foundation with La Haine.
That would probably suit them more than being the main act.
And they cannot write lyrics to save themselves!
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Ignoring whether I agree with his position, I thought his comment:
...was patronising clap trap.
The whole point of music that hits you is you can't 'back up' the position, and I can't see why you should have to when given the third degree by a self-appointed arbiter of musical taste. It hits you and you sometimes love or like it and that line makes me think he just doesn't get it.
(and mostly it was just a claim: few who claimed to love the band ever seemed able to back it up)
...was patronising clap trap.
The whole point of music that hits you is you can't 'back up' the position, and I can't see why you should have to when given the third degree by a self-appointed arbiter of musical taste. It hits you and you sometimes love or like it and that line makes me think he just doesn't get it.
Are you trying to say that music journalism is pointless, and it's all relative?
No, some music is better than other music (e.g. I don't think anyone would hold up True Bliss as a good NZ band anymore).
You should be able to say why you like something; OK, often not completely, but at least to some extent (e.g. 'the lyrics speak to me about life', 'the energetic guitar excites me').
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My issue with sweetman is he confuses reviews and opinions.
Eh? There's no such thing as an objective review - it's always a personal opinion. To not write what you actually think is dishonest and pandering. I like Simon Sweetman's reviews because he means what he says. I don't always agree with him but at least he's honest.
Anyway, Sweetman is not the main show here. He's just the catalyst.
The bottom line is that Fat Freddy's Drop really f**king suck and there is obviously a significant number of people in Wellington who are glad someone finally came out and just said it.
Fight the power!
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Although i'm a traditional 60's Ska - BlueBeat fanatic I have grown to appreciate Fat Freddy's dub sounds and as did the fans at last years Glastonbury festival wish them all continued success it what they do and produce.
Reviewers have their opinions and so do the paying public who vote with their hard earned!
Skaman2009-04-16 10:08:23
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Opinions are like arseholes. Everybody has (at least) one and most peoples stink! C-Diddy2009-04-16 10:59:08
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
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I just bought Live at the Matterhorn 2001. Only four songs on it but what songs they are. Over 70 minutes of music and Runnin at 21:29 mins is awesome. Best $14.95 I have spent on music for a few months.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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I always thought that FFD were very average, but I am old, not very trendy and think that 'Especially for you' by Kylie and Jason is the greatest song ever recorded.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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My issue with sweetman is he confuses reviews and opinions.
Eh? There's no such thing as an objective review - it's always a personal opinion. To not write what you actually think is dishonest and pandering. I like Simon Sweetman's reviews because he means what he says. I don't always agree with him but at least he's honest.
Nope, completely disagree. "I think this band are $hit" is an opinion. "I don't like [x] but their show was x,y and z" is a review. If I like a band what I want to hear from a review is not whether Simon Sweetman likes their music, what I want to know is is it a good show. Like I said, I doubt very few people make music decisions based on what Simon Sweetman does or does not like, he is not influential. Therefore, I have no interest in his opinions, I'd rather some sort of objective description of events he's paid to attend so I can judge for myself whether I want to go.
And he can voice as many opinions as he wants in blogs or columns, but I disagree when he does it in reviews.
Anyway, back onto Sweetman, who is he and what does he actually bring to the table as a music reviewer (apart from previous working in a record shop, which he doesn't half like to talk about)? I'm not much of a fan.
james dean2009-04-17 04:57:03Normo's coming home
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I think listening to Fat Freddy's Drop has melted your brain because that's just crazy talk.
Let's take a random example using the excellent review site Metacritic. Based on your theorising can you please explain to me how the latest Lilly Allen album can receive reviews ranging from 10/10 (Observer Music Monthly) to 2/10 (Uncut) and an average score across 32 reviews of 7/10. They are all credible publications but depending on which one you pick up you will be lead to believe this album is either a work of genius or a big pile of horse dung.
Is it that all of these reviewers are failing to be objective? No, it's because all of these "reviews" are still personal opinions!!
The idea that there is some kind of single objective truth that reviewers should be seeking out is rubbish. And reviewers who pretend to present such objectivity are dirty rotten liars. Simon Sweetman is being held to some impossible standard here when he is only expressing his opinion (in a blog ffs!)
Anyway, here's a video for all you Fat Freddy's Drop fans:
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yes terminator x- like the NZ Herald: Your Views is the same as a piece of journalism.
The idea of a review might be to put the work in context of the genre, the bands previous work and the style and quality of the recording, as well as blending in a personal reaction to it.
its like on this site- if you come on and say we should Sack Ricki cos he's crap your gunna get short shrift.
Sweetman seems excessively offended by FFD's success, and it seems like an odd piece of vitriol which says more about an uptight music blogger or whatever he is- I have a suspiscion he may be HappyTed!
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I think listening to Fat Freddy's Drop has melted your brain because that's just crazy talk.
Let's take a random example using the excellent review site Metacritic. Based on your theorising can you please explain to me how the latest Lilly Allen album can receive reviews ranging from 10/10 (Observer Music Monthly) to 2/10 (Uncut) and an average score across 32 reviews of 7/10. They are all credible publications but depending on which one you pick up you will be lead to believe this album is either a work of genius or a big pile of horse dung.
Is it that all of these reviewers are failing to be objective? No, it's because all of these "reviews" are still personal opinions!!
The idea that there is some kind of single objective truth that reviewers should be seeking out is rubbish. And reviewers who pretend to present such objectivity are dirty rotten liars. Simon Sweetman is being held to some impossible standard here when he is only expressing his opinion (in a blog ffs!)
Anyway, here's a video for all you Fat Freddy's Drop fans:
Seconded. And I went to a FFD gig once - it was interminably boring.
Cosimo2009-04-20 14:00:43
I like tautologies because I like them.
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I saw them a couple of years ago at the Prince in St Kilda. They were the most boring, self indulgent band I'd ever seen, but as the place was full of kiwis they couldn't play a note without it being met with rapturous applause.
I just didn't get them.
I just didn't get them.
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Great car driving music on long trips.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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Great car driving music on long trips.
As long as you dig snapping awake hurtling towards a tree by the side of the highway..
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runnin is a 21 min 30 secs song, as long as it takes me to get from Upper Hutt to Nauranga.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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maybe their appeal is their inoffensiveness - like Coldplay [shudder].
A band you can bring home to meet you mother, and your mother's all like, "oh my, aren't you just wonderful!", like, a band who will want babies and and be super faithful and work hard to pay the bills so to be able to afford a nice house in Whitby and have the kids go to a nice upper decile school and not be gay but upstanding members of the community, like doctors or systems analysts.
Cosimo2009-04-21 13:13:45
I like tautologies because I like them.
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yes this was a band straight out of Whitby....
haven't seen a live gig, but am a fan of the live at the Matterhorn album, not so much of their debut one, but didn't listen to it all.
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my analogy was about the humdrum/lite/status quo nature of their music, not the band members themselves - they could all be crack addicts for all I know
I like tautologies because I like them.
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Sorry not to have posted on this topic for a wee while.
A couple of weeks ago I decided to listen to their last album again (just to make sure I wasn't being unfair on them) and I only just came out of the coma.
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