Is the end nigh? (for the NRL... and the NPC)
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With the SBW ta-ta's thing, and the realisation that the AB's are no longer the force they'be been in previous years... I've been wondering...
And... I don't wanna hear about what and who's wrong and why it's crap (there's enough whinge-fests already lol).
I wanna see what people think should be done... in the short & long term... we know the issues... lets have some solutions/suggestions...
- Do we (NZ/AUS) need to wake up and smell the financial coffee... ie: that our national comps cannot compete with the European's (Rugby and to a lessor extent Super League) and thus that our best players will play offshore...
- If we can't beat them, should we join them? ie:make it easier for our best players to make their financial hay and structure it so that they can still wear the black jersey (primarily AB's, though there are clear issues for the Kiwi's in obtaining players from up north - in a workable situation, not the day before a test match). In other words, do rugby codes need to look at the football model and create something similar?
- Should the NZRU wake up and realise that we must allow o/seas players to play for the AB's? Or do we risk the AB's losing their 'aura'. Aside from the fact that they won't be our best players - as evidenced over the last few weeks.
- Will the NRL survive in it's current form with the apparent player unrest over salary caps and external player income? If so, how can/should they adapt? Less teams? Marquee player/s?
- Will/should/can/are our competitions (NRL/S14/16/18...) become feeder competitions for elite players to the bigger dollar competitions in Europe/Asia?
- Do we need to pull our heads in and realise how small a fish we (NZ & AUS) are in relation to the euro and asian markets and that we're deluded if we believe we can maintain our elite players here? (primarily with the 'carrot' of rep football - both in union and league).
- If we could pick an AB team (on form) out of all the players we have playing wherever they are in the world, would we have had the same results as the last few tests?
- Should we all become french player agents?
- Will the dollar beat the heart?
And... I don't wanna hear about what and who's wrong and why it's crap (there's enough whinge-fests already lol).
I wanna see what people think should be done... in the short & long term... we know the issues... lets have some solutions/suggestions...
E + R + O
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I would like to think that many players, want at least initially to play in the best competitions. This is why i think in the Super 14 case we should be chasing players like Wilkinson, Odriscoll etc to get the playing in the super 14. I would think real sportsmen want to test themselves in the best competitions. That would be my way of attacking the problem in super14. Lets go after them as they go after us.
In terms of NRl its a bit more difficult, Clubs cant afford more than they are allowed under the salary cap so getting rid of it would be a bit silly. Maybe a marquee system in the nrl maybe even two players per club. But the NRL is being attacked from two fronts, Rugby( Australian and European) and Super League, but undoubtedly it is still a massive sport in Australia and i don't think that will change so league definitely has a future as a Major sport in Australia.
To be fair i'm more certain about the future of League in Australia as a quality product than I am about Rugby in New Zealand.
In terms of NRl its a bit more difficult, Clubs cant afford more than they are allowed under the salary cap so getting rid of it would be a bit silly. Maybe a marquee system in the nrl maybe even two players per club. But the NRL is being attacked from two fronts, Rugby( Australian and European) and Super League, but undoubtedly it is still a massive sport in Australia and i don't think that will change so league definitely has a future as a Major sport in Australia.
To be fair i'm more certain about the future of League in Australia as a quality product than I am about Rugby in New Zealand.
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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There's a good point in there. I'm sure there is nothing to stop any Super 14 team recruiting from an Australia, South Africa or even Europe, but do they do it? Why don't they?
Royal2008-07-30 16:09:24
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There's a good point in there. I'm sure there is nothing to stop any Super 14 team recruiting from an Australia, South Africa or even Europe, but do they do it? Why don't they?
Because the NZRU, being the body whom the players are contracted to - not the franchises - won't allow them too... case in point: Robbie Deans asked them if he could sign Tim Tam Tahu when he was at Parra and they said no...
Not sure that they (NZRU) realise that exists life outside their square lol
E + R + O
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I would like to think that many players, want at least initially to play in the best competitions. This is why i think in the Super 14 case we should be chasing players like Wilkinson, Odriscoll etc to get the playing in the super 14. I would think real sportsmen want to test themselves in the best competitions. That would be my way of attacking the problem in super14. Lets go after them as they go after us.
Frederick Michalak came to the Sharks but obviously one player isn't enough.
I think that there should be a champions league type comp where the the top club team from each of the top 10 nations plays off for world supremacy. I think southern and northern hemisphere teams need to play more often.
Another idea I heard somewhere would be where the Hurricanes could have Mortlock and F.Steyn and the Brumbies could have Carter, Sivivatu etc. I don't know if players can but just don't want to at the moment. It would create more interest with more player movements. At the moment you very rarely see players changing teams. The Crusaders don't really need to worry about losing Richie McCaw (apart from England deals). It is too easy at the moment for teams to keep players.
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Players cant play for the All Blacks if they play in Australia or South Africa, the money is similar so why would you go if you lose the chance to represent your country.
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Cut the Air NZ cup.
ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH
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Cut the Air NZ cup.
Why?
To destroy Rugby in New Zealand?
f**k off.Gangsta!2008-07-30 17:05:15
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ANZC is my favourite competition. Nothing like provincial pride.
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Well if not cut it, then reduce it from our television screens and replace it with some sort of football.
ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH
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Do we (NZ/AUS) need to wake up and smell the financial coffee... ie: that our national comps cannot compete with the European's (Rugby and to a lessor extent Super League) and thus that our best players will play offshore...
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As apposed to that mindset maybe we need to work out how to get people going through the turnstyle, creating $ so we can pay our players more to keep them. Perhaps the super 14 teams need to be Franchised.
If we can't beat them, should we join them? ie:make it easier for our best players to make their financial hay and structure it so that they can still wear the black jersey (primarily AB's, though there are clear issues for the Kiwi's in obtaining players from up north - in a workable situation, not the day before a test match). In other words, do rugby codes need to look at the football model and create something similar?
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To a point, as much critiscm as It's got I think the Carter clause is a good thing. Make it so they can play Rugby anywhere as long as they turn out for an NZ super 14 franchise. The Rugby League thing is something the ARU needs to work out with Superleague.
Should the NZRU wake up and realise that we must allow o/seas players to play for the AB's? Or do we risk the AB's losing their 'aura'. Aside from the fact that they won't be our best players - as evidenced over the last few weeks.
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I think we need some protection to NZ Rugby. Maybe have some sort of rule where they have to play 5 (or whatever amount) of years professional in NZ before they can go overseas and still be an All Black. By that time new players will have came through and so the local game will stay strong. Perhaps players are taken on a case by case basis somehow.
Will the NRL survive in it's current form with the apparent player unrest over salary caps and external player income? If so, how can/should they adapt? Less teams? Marquee player/s?
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Higher Salary Cap. It needs to be there - Just make it higher.
Will/should/can/are our competitions (NRL/S14/16/18...) become feeder competitions for elite players to the bigger dollar competitions in Europe/Asia?
If the 5 year rule mentioned above happens maybe, but hopefully players will be past there prime anyway.
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Do we need to pull our heads in and realise how small a fish we (NZ & AUS) are in relation to the euro and asian markets and that we're deluded if we believe we can maintain our elite players here? (primarily with the 'carrot' of rep football - both in union and league).
Yes and no. As stupid as it sounds we have to find ways of keeping as many players as possible and live with the fact that some will go for the $.
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If we could pick an AB team (on form) out of all the players we have playing wherever they are in the world, would we have had the same results as the last few tests?
Yes, most of the players that have left were past there prime.
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Should we all become french player agents?
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Will the dollar beat the heart?
Yes and No, Depends on the player.
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Well if not cut it, then reduce it from our television screens and replace it with some sort of football.
Like what.....?
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ANZC is my favourite competition. Nothing like provincial pride.
Exactly. I would much rather go and watch Canterbury V Auckland than Crusaders V Blues. I know that 80% of the players have come through there local system and have a sense of provinsial pride.
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Im with the person who suggested the Super 14 becomes an open market. So NZ players could chase the dollar in south africa and oz, this would require at least partial privatization of franchises which i think would be a good thing. I say partial though because i dont think their is enough money in the nz economy to sustain 5 professional private teams. I like the idea that has been mooted regard the 3 conference structure that would include the US, Japs, Pacific and Argentina. Make it a truly southern hemisphere comp.
You're not currently allowed to get players from overseas unless you get dispensation, cite the episode with that Aussie first five who played for Taranaki in 05 whose name i forget who the Canes wanted but the NZRU wouldn't let them have.
In terms of the NPC it needs to stay but i think it will reach a point where even most s14 players aren't in it. Although this is not ideal, Im a BOP fan and love watching the steamers play, it is necessary for the future of the game.
The other absolute necessity is some movement on a global season, i think if that happens a lot of the problems re player availability might solve itself. Might mean us having to make some pretty major compromises but they have to be made.
You're not currently allowed to get players from overseas unless you get dispensation, cite the episode with that Aussie first five who played for Taranaki in 05 whose name i forget who the Canes wanted but the NZRU wouldn't let them have.
In terms of the NPC it needs to stay but i think it will reach a point where even most s14 players aren't in it. Although this is not ideal, Im a BOP fan and love watching the steamers play, it is necessary for the future of the game.
The other absolute necessity is some movement on a global season, i think if that happens a lot of the problems re player availability might solve itself. Might mean us having to make some pretty major compromises but they have to be made.
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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You're not currently allowed to get players from overseas unless you get dispensation, cite the episode with that Aussie first five who played for Taranaki in 05 whose name i forget who the Canes wanted but the NZRU wouldn't let them have.
Brock James, he ended up playing for the Western Force
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Ahhh thats right, helped Taranaki choke against Waikato when trying to make the semis. On the other hand BOP did make the semis, good times! and if any of you sheep shaggers from down south remind me of the result of that said semi final i will not be happy
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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Ahhh thats right, helped Taranaki choke against Waikato when trying to make the semis. On the other hand BOP did make the semis, good times! and if any of you sheep shaggers from down south remind me of the result of that said semi final i will not be happy
It's not the semi-final that gutted me that year... we were SO close to retaining the shield against Canterbury.
/wearing his Steamers top today
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to the guy who said the all blacks result wouldve been the same if our players hadnt left..????
mate you're dreaming. rudi wulf? nonu at 2nd 5? thompson and kaino? anthony boric? c'mon dude these guys are not as good as the likes of chris jack, aaron mauger, collins, howlett. if last year someone showed me the teamsheet of the all blacks teams this year i would've laughed at them. our team is very mediocre based on some key losses like the ones mentioned above.
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I'd love to see the current team play a Baa-baa's selection of o/seas ex AB's... here's a few:
15. Nick Evans
14. Doug Howett
13. Sam Tuitupou
12. Aaron Mauger
11. Rico Gear
10. Luke McAlister
9. Byron Kelleher
8. Craig Newby
7. Josh Blaikie
6. Jerry Collins
5. Chris Jack
4. Simon Maling
3. Carl Hayman
2. Anton Oliver
1. Clarke Dermody
Not too shabby I wouldn't reckon... and far too many are in their twenties!!!
<!-- bmi_SafeAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img");//--> SurgeQld2008-07-31 19:42:00
15. Nick Evans
14. Doug Howett
13. Sam Tuitupou
12. Aaron Mauger
11. Rico Gear
10. Luke McAlister
9. Byron Kelleher
8. Craig Newby
7. Josh Blaikie
6. Jerry Collins
5. Chris Jack
4. Simon Maling
3. Carl Hayman
2. Anton Oliver
1. Clarke Dermody
Not too shabby I wouldn't reckon... and far too many are in their twenties!!!
<!-- bmi_SafeAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img");//--> SurgeQld2008-07-31 19:42:00
E + R + O
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You can add Greg Somerville and Chris Masoe in there. And Justin Marshall on the bench, would be an excellent match.
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Marty Holah could play as well
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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Manawatu have scored a major boilover in the Air New Zealand Cup in coming back to beat Canterbury 25-24 in their opening round match in Christchurch on Saturday.
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Yays
Had the best Stadium food ever though.
I
Corporate Box 
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Good to see quite a few upsets. Northland over Waikato, Manawatu over Canterbury and possibly Southland over Otago (22-20 to Otago with 13 to play).
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Another boil over coming up. Counties 17-6 up over Auckland with three to play.
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Good to see all these boilover results. Long may they continue.
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Yays
Had the best Stadium food ever though.
I
Corporate Box
Pffft. Sit with real people ffs.
Three for me, and two for them.
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great weekend for upsets. loss of players looks like it's going to hurt the big teams. come on you turbos! rodfarva2008-08-04 13:40:22
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