Watching Patel "bat"...
I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
My father made exactly this point. He said that in his day if a batsman showed an overfondness for backing away to the quicks the coach would bang a stake into the ground just outside leg stump and tie the batsman's leg to it with a short length of cord, then direct the quicks to keep chucking them down until he showed some balls and got in line.
If anything Patel will probably be sent for some sort of one on one counseling with a sports psychologist.
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
The most annoying thing about this is the fact he can bat..... Flynny with a pair of first ballers, not having a great time, great to see BJ standing up though, no questiuons about his spot as a specliasts kepper anymore.
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
The most annoying thing about this is the fact he can bat..... Flynny with a pair of first ballers, not having a great time, great to see BJ standing up though, no questiuons about his spot as a specliasts kepper anymore.
Fuck this stupid game
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
Fair enough that the fans are already angry at the team and I think that's why he's copping it here but what is more disgraceful is the actual batsmen. I suggest people direct their anger to the appropriate players. Afterall none of you have (although not paid to) had to face up to the fastest bowlers in the world either. Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
Fuck this stupid game
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
Fair enough that the fans are already angry at the team and I think that's why he's copping it here but what is more disgraceful is the actual batsmen. I suggest people direct their anger to the appropriate players. Afterall none of you have (although not paid to) had to face up to the fastest bowlers in the world either. Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
I guess thats fair, as I said, I like him, he comes across well as a guy, I don't think he has had a fair go with the ball over his career. The stick he cops from a lot of fans is unfair, as our batsmen never set a platform to allow a spinner a chance - you need runs and time to play with as a spinner and that is something he very rarely gets. I disagreed with Doull after the first test when he did it, but to come out and do it again in the second test just pissed me off, because, as you say, he can bat. As I said, it just seemed to sum up our capitulation to the bowlers, rather than fighting hard.
Agree with you on Ronchi/Watling. Guptill again is a guy I have a lot of time for, gave up the chance of IPL to play county cricket to improve his test game, but he might just not be the answer at opener. I expect Watling will open against England with Ronchi taking the gloves.
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I like Patel, but I actually agree with Simon Doull in that he should never wear the Silver Fern again for repeating that absolutely gutless display with the bat. Show some balls and get in line. To continue to just back away and expose his stumps like that is just an awful symbol of our complete and utter capitulation.
Fair enough that the fans are already angry at the team and I think that's why he's copping it here but what is more disgraceful is the actual batsmen. I suggest people direct their anger to the appropriate players. Afterall none of you have (although not paid to) had to face up to the fastest bowlers in the world either. Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
yep- and he seemed to score more runs than those who got in line and got out first ball. I've got no problem with it, considering nothing else was working. If he'd scored a quick 35 we'd all be happy. The guy can bat, and is being scapegoated.
Franklin was the disgraceful one to my mind- had won the moral battle with Stein by getting him away for a boundary and then holed out. Plus he didn't seem able to play the short ball.
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Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
He's a paid bowler and his test avg is 48. Only ever taken one pfeiffer. Averages 15 overs between wickets.
Only positives i can see. His economy rate is ok (3.20) and he spreads his wickets evenly through top, middle and lower order batsmen as seen here
He's a below par test player.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
He's a paid bowler and his test avg is 48. Only ever taken one pfeiffer. Averages 15 overs between wickets.
Only positives i can see. His economy rate is ok (3.20) and he spreads his wickets evenly through top, middle and lower order batsmen as seen here
He's a below par test player.
Fuck this stupid game
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Jeets is not paid as a batsmen.
He's a paid bowler and his test avg is 48. Only ever taken one pfeiffer. Averages 15 overs between wickets.
Only positives i can see. His economy rate is ok (3.20) and he spreads his wickets evenly through top, middle and lower order batsmen as seen here
He's a below par test player.
That's a fair point.
I certainly wouldn't call him a coward or slag him off personally as i don't know him (although from the outside he seems nice as people like yourself say). But i really don't believe he's good enough to forge any sort of international career.
If he's the best spin option we have at the moment then good on him for being number 1 and getting his chance, but it says more about our spin bowling stocks than anything else if that's the case.
Three for me, and two for them.
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I wouldn't call him a coward, but I maintain it was a gutless display. I don't think that is a personal attack. As I said, I think he has been pretty unfairly treated throughout his career bowling wise, but it is just incredibly frustrating when a guy who I know can bat does that. Same reason I get frustrated with Southee getting out slogging in a lot of situations - it is clear he has more ability than that.
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FYI I have never seen Jeets back away like he did so I think it says a lot about the how our guys think we stand in test match cricket vs South Africa. I certainly hope that attitude changes for the English tour.
Fuck this stupid game
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FYI I have never seen Jeets back away like he did so I think it says a lot about the how our guys think we stand in test match cricket vs South Africa. I certainly hope that attitude changes for the English tour.
Neither have I, thats why I always thought he should be used as night watchman when he was playing - he always seemed technically sound. (From memory he did that reasonably successfully a couple of times). Thus the total frustration!
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I wouldn't call him a coward, but I maintain it was a gutless display. I don't think that is a personal attack. As I said, I think he has been pretty unfairly treated throughout his career bowling wise, but it is just incredibly frustrating when a guy who I know can bat does that. Same reason I get frustrated with Southee getting out slogging in a lot of situations - it is clear he has more ability than that.
I agree. He can be the nicest guy imaginable but as you said before it's the symbolic nature of the surrender that makes it humiliating and in a subtle way damaging to team morale.
I was thinking about Ewan Chatfield today, an awful batsman, but one who always tried to sell his wicket dearly, even after nearly being killed by a bouncer in the 70s. His innings back in '85 when he and Coney put on 50 for the last wicket against the Pakistan quicks to win the test was an example of the kind of determination which seems to be sadly lacking nowadays.
edit: not technically the last wicket of course, but since Cairns had to retire hurt concussed by a bouncer it made Chatfield's effort all the braver!
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Test team I would pick for England (Assuming all fit and available)
Watling
McCullum
Williamson (Sinclair if Ryder not available, and Williamson 5 - yes, I went there, i'm that desperate)
Taylor (c)
Ryder
Brownlie
Ronchi (wk)
Vetorri (Astle if not available)
Southee
Bracewell
Boult
I don't think we need 4 seamers in NZ, and Ryder will suffice or even Brownlie if desperate.
Test team I think they will pick:
Fulton (Oh God why)
Brownlie/Guptill
McCullum (c) because he doesn't like opening anymore, bored of that.
Taylor
Williamson
Watling (wk)
Munro
Vetorri (who the hell knows if he's not available, all we know is it won't be Patel or Martin, because apparently we can't use the same spinners for two series in a row.)
Southee
Bracewell
Boult
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I'm thinking the same aitkenmike apart from adding sinclair in any situation. I wouldn't even consider him if all other plunket shield players were killed in a train wreck (appropriate I thought) tomorrow. Would have Cachopa as the next cab if any of the first choice are out for whatever reason unless it's Ryder in which case it probably has to be Munro/Franklin or another batting all rounder.
Fuck this stupid game
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With all this talk making it seem pretty much a fait-accomplis that McCullum will be no longer opening, I just don't see how he can fit into our middle order. Assuming Watling shifts to open you have Williamson 3, Taylor 4, Brownlie 5, Allrounder X 6, Ronchi 7 (unless you shift Brownlie to open as well, which would seem crazy to me). This gets even worse if Ryder is back, as suddenly you have Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, McCullum and Brownlie fighting for 3 middle order spots (or 4 if Ryder is used as our 4th seamer).
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With all this talk making it seem pretty much a fait-accomplis that McCullum will be no longer opening, I just don't see how he can fit into our middle order. Assuming Watling shifts to open you have Williamson 3, Taylor 4, Brownlie 5, Allrounder X 6, Ronchi 7 (unless you shift Brownlie to open as well, which would seem crazy to me). This gets even worse if Ryder is back, as suddenly you have Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, McCullum and Brownlie fighting for 3 middle order spots (or 4 if Ryder is used as our 4th seamer).
The only way I could see it getting easier would be if they make Watling open & keep...Then you have that extra spot at 7 for the All rounder, and then Williamson, McCullum, Taylor, Brownlie in places 3-6 (assuming Ryder doesn't return yet).
But it gets even worse if the reports of Peter Fulton as an opening option came about (dear God I hope not)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8178734/McCullum-no-lock-to-open-against-England
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Going by what Hesson has been saying it sounds like they will be reluctant to drop anyone or change too much because they want to give the players more time to learn from their (albeit poor) experiences playing. They are talking about moving McCullum down though so that could be the interesting change, who opens then? Seems like we have a team of middle order batsmen but no one who can do the job the job at the top. Been like that for some time.
In saying that Taylor will come back so it's about who replaces him really. If Ryder comes back he replaces Munro and bats ahead of Watling.
Fuck this stupid game
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With all this talk making it seem pretty much a fait-accomplis that McCullum will be no longer opening, I just don't see how he can fit into our middle order. Assuming Watling shifts to open you have Williamson 3, Taylor 4, Brownlie 5, Allrounder X 6, Ronchi 7 (unless you shift Brownlie to open as well, which would seem crazy to me). This gets even worse if Ryder is back, as suddenly you have Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, McCullum and Brownlie fighting for 3 middle order spots (or 4 if Ryder is used as our 4th seamer).
The only way I could see it getting easier would be if they make Watling open & keep...Then you have that extra spot at 7 for the All rounder, and then Williamson, McCullum, Taylor, Brownlie in places 3-6 (assuming Ryder doesn't return yet).
But it gets even worse if the reports of Peter Fulton as an opening option came about (dear God I hope not)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8178734/McCullum-no-lock-to-open-against-England
Fuck this stupid game
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With all this talk making it seem pretty much a fait-accomplis that McCullum will be no longer opening, I just don't see how he can fit into our middle order. Assuming Watling shifts to open you have Williamson 3, Taylor 4, Brownlie 5, Allrounder X 6, Ronchi 7 (unless you shift Brownlie to open as well, which would seem crazy to me). This gets even worse if Ryder is back, as suddenly you have Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, McCullum and Brownlie fighting for 3 middle order spots (or 4 if Ryder is used as our 4th seamer).
The only way I could see it getting easier would be if they make Watling open & keep...Then you have that extra spot at 7 for the All rounder, and then Williamson, McCullum, Taylor, Brownlie in places 3-6 (assuming Ryder doesn't return yet).
But it gets even worse if the reports of Peter Fulton as an opening option came about (dear God I hope not)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8178734/McCullum-no-lock-to-open-against-England
Oh agree that it's too big of a work load, it isn't something I would suggest, but could see them doing it because Brendan doesn't want to keep. I'm with you whichever of them is in the middle order should be keeping.
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With all this talk making it seem pretty much a fait-accomplis that McCullum will be no longer opening, I just don't see how he can fit into our middle order. Assuming Watling shifts to open you have Williamson 3, Taylor 4, Brownlie 5, Allrounder X 6, Ronchi 7 (unless you shift Brownlie to open as well, which would seem crazy to me). This gets even worse if Ryder is back, as suddenly you have Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, McCullum and Brownlie fighting for 3 middle order spots (or 4 if Ryder is used as our 4th seamer).
The only way I could see it getting easier would be if they make Watling open & keep...Then you have that extra spot at 7 for the All rounder, and then Williamson, McCullum, Taylor, Brownlie in places 3-6 (assuming Ryder doesn't return yet).
But it gets even worse if the reports of Peter Fulton as an opening option came about (dear God I hope not)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8178734/McCullum-no-lock-to-open-against-England
Except that you know that there is no chance of McCullum taking the gloves, and as you say, Watling can't both keep and open, and he has to open (especially if McCullum doesn't), so Ronchi has to play. The whole thing is just a shambles. It sounds like Fulton is just about guaranteed a spot from what he has been saying too! :'(
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So it seems like: Fulton, Guptil, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Watling, Vettori, Southee, Bracewell, Boult?
With Brownlie being dumped even though he got a century, that would be hugely harsh on him, but if Fulton is in I can't see them dropping Williamson, unless the drop is Guptil, but that would mean Watling opening and Ronchi keeping, which again leaves Brownlie out of the team. If Vettori is not back would that be Astle? or Jeets?
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So it seems like: Fulton, Guptil, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Watling, Vettori, Southee, Bracewell, Boult?
With Brownlie being dumped even though he got a century, that would be hugely harsh on him, but if Fulton is in I can't see them dropping Williamson, unless the drop is Guptil, but that would mean Watling opening and Ronchi keeping, which again leaves Brownlie out of the team. If Vettori is not back would that be Astle? or Jeets?
I don't see how it can be that, as the current philosophy in fixated on (needlessly imo) having 4 seamers, so an allrounder needs to come into that team somewhere - as I said McCullum moving into the middle order without keeping creates a bizarre logjam of talent considering how poor our batting has been.
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So it seems like: Fulton, Guptil, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Watling, Vettori, Southee, Bracewell, Boult?
With Brownlie being dumped even though he got a century, that would be hugely harsh on him, but if Fulton is in I can't see them dropping Williamson, unless the drop is Guptil, but that would mean Watling opening and Ronchi keeping, which again leaves Brownlie out of the team. If Vettori is not back would that be Astle? or Jeets?
I don't see how it can be that, as the current philosophy in fixated on (needlessly imo) having 4 seamers, so an allrounder needs to come into that team somewhere - as I said McCullum moving into the middle order without keeping creates a bizarre logjam of talent considering how poor our batting has been.
Haha, would help if I could count ;) My team above only has 10 players, so there is your fourth seamer/all-rounder slot :D
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*snip
I like Geenty, he's one of our top cricket writers, I can tell you from experience that that mistake is a sub's fault, not his. Happens all too often.
On the sub's fault - completely agree, the editors on stuff are horrid, I had some great ones, used to run a daily email with some friends of the Editing Stuff-ups
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