Julia Gillard

Actually, if you did, would you hang around after for small talk or bolt the hell out of there  

Your argument hinges on black and white, rather than degrees of right and wrong, which is much more realistic. Are we all capable of what the Nazis did? probably. Does that make us the same as Nazis? no. You are painting basically all of humanity with the same brush, which is your prerogative, but it is very dangerous to cast such damning aspersions - he who lives in glass houses etc. You sound like a person who must be exceptionally moral and ethical to make such sweeping generalisations about the evilness of a large swath of humanity, (am talking about poltiicians/business people in general, as from some of your other posts about Christine Rankin etc) and perhaps you are; I don't know you. However, I think it very likely that you are much closer to the people you seem to despise than you realise.

It is fine to say this policy is bad etc, even morally repugnant, but if I was related to someone who died in the gas chambers, I would take incredible offense to you comparing someone from the Austn Liberal Party to the Nazis. Also, as an aside, it completely cheapens your argument, because that is what children do: hyperbolise to extremes, and I've seen so many terrible internet arguments that end in Godwin's Law that it basically makes the person's argument obsolete.

Everything is relative. Is it that most politicians are terrible in many ways, or that humans are fullstop? I think it is more to do with power creating terrible situations, but that's not restricted to politicians - witness any cruelty by children on one another. If everything is evil, nothing is. That is what I mean by relativity.

Also, why would the media somehow be exempt from personal agendas? Of course it should be neutral and ethically sound, but it is as fallible as any human construction.

PS. I hate Man U, but it is a different hate to people who beat their kids. Is a neighbour who hears a child being beaten as bad as the person who beats their kids? You seem to imply they are, and I disagree. People turn a blind eye to evil every day of the year. Loads more than people who don't. It's not good but it's not going to change. So yes, I am cynical, but at least I can admit I am a hypocrite.







Cosimo2010-08-02 20:38:51

Your original comment was just a load of crap.
What has Downer got to do with East Timor?

Is everything relative? I'm not sure.

beating kids. I'm sure if this was happening next door to you , then you would step in. It's the right thing to do. I don't think there is any need to apply an ideology or credo of Relativism to this. Even if we lack the 'courage' or 'assured' to do it directly there are ways to try and help out.

it's only hyperbole if you don't agree with it. Children also believe things that later turn out to be not true. This generally also cheapens arguments. Sometimes.

Politicians/Humans. Yeah, and again this hark ens back to the responsibility of the citizens in any supposed Democracy. Power may well create terrible situations. Again it's the communities responsibility to limit or denounce or agitate against this.

the Media should have personal agendas in any free society. It's also no sin to ask questions of the accusers. I'm not aware of this happening in this instance. it's not fair dinkum

I fail to see where I have made sweeping generalizations about a large swath of humanity. This is not to say I may not have. FWIW the League of Rights is clearly a derivative of Nazi Ideology. I think this is black or white, i can't comprehend how people can believe differently about this. Do you think the NZ National Front is influenced by Nazi/Far Right thought?

I do make choices corresponding to a Moral/Ethical ideology/belief system. I'm  confident we all do. I'm confident too that my own way of understanding the world and the things I value places me diametrically opposite to the likes of Downer and Rankin.

things can be good and they can change. Open and honest dialog (probably IMO) can play a vital part in this.

nice one Cosimo.

there is numerous quotes around the exploitation rights of both Natural Gas and Oil from him as Foreign Minister. I've drawn the conclusion from these quotes that it is perfectly acceptable for Australia to stand by whilst mass-murder and crimes of aggression are committed because it's good for trade. In fact , that's the way of the world.

However should some mad Arab Warlord invade , say Kuwait, that's entirely a different story.

Maybe, maybe not. Of course it's the right thing to do; that's not in question. But not doing something is not the same as carrying out the beatings. It just isn't. I'm not saying not stepping in is right, what I mean by relative is the degree of right and wrong, not what IS right or wrong. If you don't grasp this, then you have missed the point of my whole post, which is maybe my fault.

Wishing someone harm  is wrong. Hitting someone over the head with a bat is wrong. Are they the same degree of wrong? No.

Re: hyperbole - obviously I don't agree with it, so it must be hyperbole by that rationale.

What you believe doesn't make a difference to the argument; how you argue does. That was my points about Godwin's Law. I don't disagree with your points about Downer being a cock, I disagree with the way you are presenting your argument, w/r/t using Nazis to make a comparison I think is way off base.
Cosimo2010-08-02 21:39:32

When the Indos were invading and killing people in East Timor in 1975, Downer was working in a bank.

Well there we go; banks stand by and let people get into debt and ruin lives. Damn Nazis.

She's mates with Barry Hall, so you better treat her nice...

yes we should give a free pass to those who negotiate trade deals with regimes responsible for genocide. well done Leggy. after all as Downer indicated Australia's National Interest comes first. 

"You like chocolate, Jules? 'Cause I've got half a bar in me shorts."

I reckon they would both be wooding up.

The old "she's a chick in power so she must have a penis" gag?

Shame on you, News, shame.

Nothing do with power... more her being a fright.

Isn't she from Adelaide? How is she suddenly a Bulldogs fan? Oh politicians.....

Born in Wales.  Migrated to Adeliade. Studied in Melbourne.

Nah, she's fair dinkum.

Indeed a fair dinkum ....
Central Coast Fan

Fair Dinkum my bottom.
Turfmoore2010-08-03 20:23:55

Different code, Turfy, come on. 

I know, I know.
AFL Western Bulldog through and through.

Central Coast just a tad opportunistic me thinks.

What do reckon than, Victory or Heart?
Maybe we could have her in the Phoenix end in September so no one is offended.Turfmoore2010-08-03 20:40:14

Pretty sure she's CCM from now on, don't you think?

True. Politicians never change.

NZ polies that I certainly would (especially if they wore nix colours):

Suggest you look up the history of East Timor/Portuguese Timor.

Kristina Keneally, NSW Premier

and again

Try this:

Fark me...why don't we have politicians like this here.



And Sarah Palin as No. 2...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

She rocks my world Cos

You guys can shoot animals out of helicopters together and make Obama-is-a-terrorist jokes

1, Palin, 3 and 9 on the list would all get my vote come election time.

About 7:30 this morning...

Topping the election poll, so to speak.

I guess this means a tight coalition for you Cosimo?

Maybe a position going as senior whip in her party?