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Military Hard(on)ware

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Military Hard(on)ware

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I know theres a few of you out there who like looking at things which are built to kill people.


Little birdy told me that the RNZAF are getting some A-29 Super Tucanos, Turbo-prop and totally bad ass killing machine. Though we'd only use them as trainers if anything.

Almost sounds like Super Taco...



I never thought the RNZAF could do a combat wing again, would assume these will only realllly be used for training, but at least the option is there I suppose.

Also, I think it needs to be mentioned, but am curious what some think of the NH-90's.. I kinda think they should of gone with some Blackhawks instead.. You know, something proven and not totally experimental and a waste of money on a tight budget...Azevo2012-04-30 13:08:09

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Blackhawks cost about $NZ0.5 million more each but nice choppers.

F/A-18's would've been a good replacement for the A4 Skyhawks. Anti-shipping capabilities as well as ground attack & air-to-air.

Embarrassing these days when we can only put up a Hercules &/or a Boeing 757 on a fly pass at ceremonies.Wongo2012-04-30 08:09:23
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think that 0.5 million more is worth it though, at least they are known to be reliable and are proven to be capable for many operations.

I recall talk of the potential for the RNZAF to buy some of Australias older F/A-18's, but am guessing that was scrapped.

Though I know that there is 1 Super Tucano as an evaluation craft somewhere in N.Z, guessing it's almost a deal.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
As cool as strike aircraft are, we don't actually need them though do we? Our best defensive weapon is the thousands of miles between us and anyone else and if any country wanted to start sh*t with us they would have to get here first. The only countries capable of projecting power to NZ are the UK, USA, Russia, France, and maybe China or India in a few years, as they are the only ones with the naval capacity to stage a large scale operation so far from land. Its obvious that no matter how much we invested in our air force we would never compete with any of those so why bother? (Add in that none of them would ever attack us anyway - at least not in the foreseeable future) Better to spend that money on aircraft like the Orions to protect our EEZ rights and transport like the Hercules to get our army to peacekeeping, stabilisation, and aid missions, or on ships too patrol the EEZ as well. If we are attacked one day the strategy of our military planners as I understand it is to drop back into the bush and wage guerilla warfare, and strike aircraft aren't exactly useful in that scenario.
I know some people would argue that it is good to be able to provide aircraft to missions with our allies but I seriously doubt this is a big deal to any of them. We can provide troops and logistical support anyway.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wongo wrote:

Embarrassing these days when we can only put up a Hercules &/or a Boeing 757 on a fly pass at ceremonies.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
As cool as strike aircraft are, we don't actually need them though do we? Our best defensive weapon is the thousands of miles between us and anyone else and if any country wanted to start sh*t with us they would have to get here first. The only countries capable of projecting power to NZ are the UK, USA, Russia, France, and maybe China or India in a few years, as they are the only ones with the naval capacity to stage a large scale operation so far from land. Its obvious that no matter how much we invested in our air force we would never compete with any of those so why bother? (Add in that none of them would ever attack us anyway - at least not in the foreseeable future) Better to spend that money on aircraft like the Orions to protect our EEZ rights and transport like the Hercules to get our army to peacekeeping, stabilisation, and aid missions, or on ships too patrol the EEZ as well. If we are attacked one day the strategy of our military planners as I understand it is to drop back into the bush and wage guerilla warfare, and strike aircraft aren't exactly useful in that scenario.I know some people would argue that it is good to be able to provide aircraft to missions with our allies but I seriously doubt this is a big deal to any of them. We can provide troops and logistical support anyway.



The CT/4 trainers need replacing anyway,

Thats why it would be wise to buy an aircraft which is a great trainer and can have the option land attack, not that it would ever be used for it, but it's there for training. Plus having another outlet for getting rid of ordinance thats about to go out of date..

As much as the Hercs are pretty... o for awesome. Be interesting to see what will be around when they are decommissioned and replaced.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wongo wrote:


Embarrassing these days when we can only put up a Hercules &/or a Boeing 757 on a fly pass at ceremonies.


How so? We should celebrate the fact we don't need KILLING MACHINES surely?
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Azevo wrote:
As cool as strike aircraft are, we don't actually need them though do we? Our best defensive weapon is the thousands of miles between us and anyone else and if any country wanted to start sh*t with us they would have to get here first. The only countries capable of projecting power to NZ are the UK, USA, Russia, France, and maybe China or India in a few years, as they are the only ones with the naval capacity to stage a large scale operation so far from land. Its obvious that no matter how much we invested in our air force we would never compete with any of those so why bother? (Add in that none of them would ever attack us anyway - at least not in the foreseeable future) Better to spend that money on aircraft like the Orions to protect our EEZ rights and transport like the Hercules to get our army to peacekeeping, stabilisation, and aid missions, or on ships too patrol the EEZ as well. If we are attacked one day the strategy of our military planners as I understand it is to drop back into the bush and wage guerilla warfare, and strike aircraft aren't exactly useful in that scenario.I know some people would argue that it is good to be able to provide aircraft to missions with our allies but I seriously doubt this is a big deal to any of them. We can provide troops and logistical support anyway.



The CT/4 trainers need replacing anyway,

Thats why it would be wise to buy an aircraft which is a great trainer and can have the option land attack, not that it would ever be used for it, but it's there for training. Plus having another outlet for getting rid of ordinance thats about to go out of date..

As much as the Hercs are pretty... o for awesome. Be interesting to see what will be around when they are decommissioned and replaced.
Yeah I've got no problems with the Super Tacos as dual role trainers/attack aircraft. My post was more directed at the suggestion of buying F-18s.
The Hercs will never be replaced! How dare you suggest such sacrilege?

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's not the fact that we need killing machines, but more of an economic fact in that our armed forces are really poor.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, having jet fighters would of been rather stupid, it would just take up far to much of the budget to maintain them. luckily it's not happening anymore.. I think. They're quite secretive in our potential purchases.

Well, at the moment, I think there are only 2 hercs which are actually working? The rest are either broken or getting upgraded.Azevo2012-04-30 13:07:28

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Azevo wrote:
It's not the fact that we need killing machines, but more of an economic fact in that our armed forces are really poor.


They should run a garage sale or something....   
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe. 
20/5/20

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
dairyflat wrote:

Azevo wrote:
It's not the fact that we need killing machines, but more of an economic fact in that our armed forces are really poor.
They should run a garage sale or something....    


In Trentham they have a surplus store where they are constantly offloading stuff.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

As always an interesting debate about whether we will ever need them.  But let's say we are human and history repeats and we get to that pointy end, we need to be trained and armed.  So my bet is on a light attack aircraft, that does troop support and marine 'inderdiction'. The usual ISTAR stuff (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition, and Reconnaissance) could be done with an unmanned aircraft like a Global Hawk, though the RAAF decided against this.  I understand there is an 'expression of interest' from the RNZAF (i.e. show us the goods) because of its long range abilties.  The RAAF went with the Heron (two days on watch at 35,000 feet).  I was told the Heron did a trial here back in 2008.  Air superiority isn't a priority in the current climate, so sadly no F-15s .  Must say the new F18 are much improved. Would love to afford an F22, even second hand.

However, I suspect NZ will skip a generation and go for armed unmanned aircraft and simply tool up for whatever mission, troop support, naval support, ISTAR.

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

There's a whole heap of RAF Harrier Jump Jets sitting in the Arizona desert.  Ours for just GBP 115 mill.

Viffing - better than self-abuse

(anyone else got a hard-on yet?)

 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:
There's a whole heap of RAF Harrier Jump Jets sitting in the Arizona desert.

 

The Boneyard.

Airfix, brings back memories.

 

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The Boneyard is superb on Google Maps Satellite.  Have a look at Bremerton on there and you can see the Kitty Hark class carriers and the Hull of the Long Beach.

Also love looking at Military and naval bases and trying to find the supercarriers on there as well.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Wongo wrote:

Airfix, brings back memories.

The fumes from the polystyrene cement.

The fumes from the humbrol enamel paint and thinners.

The fiddly feckin decals which kept tearing when you tried to put them on the tail or the fuselage.

The wheels that kept breaking...

 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:
The fumes from the polystyrene cement.

The fumes from the humbrol enamel paint and thinners.

The fiddly feckin decals which kept tearing when you tried to put them on the tail or the fuselage.

The wheels that kept breaking...

Were you one of these modellers who painted the parts first or after the model was built?

 

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:
The Boneyard is superb on Google Maps Satellite.  Have a look at Bremerton on there and you can see the Kitty Hark class carriers and the Hull of the Long Beach.

Also love looking at Military and naval bases and trying to find the supercarriers on there as well.

Lucky the we didn't have Google Earth/Maps back in Dec 1941 then.

 

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Although it probably would have caused the same isue as an old photo might have said the carriers were there when they weren't.  Much like the actual events.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

The Boneyard is superb on Google Maps Satellite.  Have a look at Bremerton on there and you can see the Kitty Hark class carriers and the Hull of the Long Beach.

Also love looking at Military and naval bases and trying to find the supercarriers on there as well.

Even better

Just did a "google Satellite" on Devonport Naval base... there`s a ton of shit going on there

Must be something big going down Whenuapai Air Base is even more interesting !

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

UK Kiwi wrote:

Hard News wrote:

The Boneyard is superb on Google Maps Satellite.  Have a look at Bremerton on there and you can see the Kitty Hark class carriers and the Hull of the Long Beach.

Also love looking at Military and naval bases and trying to find the supercarriers on there as well.

Even better

Just did a "google Satellite" on Devonport Naval base... there`s a ton of shit going on there

Must be something big going down Whenuapai Air Base is even more interesting !

 

Can see the similar thing if you look at Woodburn Airbase in Blenheim.... All our skyhawks in a line wrapped in Gradwrap!

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

sthn.jeff wrote:

UK Kiwi wrote:

Hard News wrote:

The Boneyard is superb on Google Maps Satellite.  Have a look at Bremerton on there and you can see the Kitty Hark class carriers and the Hull of the Long Beach.

Also love looking at Military and naval bases and trying to find the supercarriers on there as well.

Even better

Just did a "google Satellite" on Devonport Naval base... there`s a ton of shit going on there

Must be something big going down Whenuapai Air Base is even more interesting !

Can see the similar thing if you look at Woodburn Airbase in Blenheim.... All our skyhawks in a line wrapped in Gradwrap!

 

Invisible stealth wrapping.

 

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

30,000 pounds of Freedom, nicknamed the 'penetrator'..   

 

 

 

"The biggest conventional bomb ever developed is ready to wreak destruction upon the enemies of the US, after Air Force Secretary Michael Donley said its record-breaking bunker-buster has become operational after years of testing.

“If it needed to go today, we would be ready to do that,” said Donley. “We continue to do testing on the bomb to refine its capabilities, and that is ongoing. We also have the capability to go with existing configuration today.”

The Pentagon has spent $330 million to develop and deliver more than 20 of the precision-guided Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bunker-busters, which are designed to blast through up to 200 feet of concrete."

 

http://www.rt.com/news/massive-ordnance-penetrator-bomb-bunker-buster-144/

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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over 12 years ago

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9474509/Divers-find-WWII-Japanese-sub

The 122-metre Sen-Toku class vessel - among the largest pre-nuclear submarines ever built - was found in August off the southwest coast of Oahu and had been missing since 1946, scientists at the University of Hawaii at Manoa said.

The I-400 and its sister ship, the I-401, which was found off Oahu in 2005, were able to travel one and a half times around the world without refuelling and could hold up to three folding-wing bombers that could be launched minutes after resurfacing, the scientists said.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago


all nz military does is throw rainbows and glitter at the axis of evil . That's pretty much how our force is these days.

Get one giant super carrier and run the military off that. Airforce, navy and army .I am sure all of nz defence personal would be able to fit on a carrier.

I do however like the look of the NH-90's . Blackhawks do look pretty good to tho. Army need tanks bigger and better ones

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago


ooh ooh also love the military hovercraft

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago
chefmivec wrote:


all nz military does is throw rainbows and glitter at the axis of evil . That's pretty much how our force is these days.

Get one giant super carrier and run the military off that. Airforce, navy and army .I am sure all of nz defence personal would be able to fit on a carrier.

I do however like the look of the NH-90's . Blackhawks do look pretty good to tho. Army need tanks bigger and better ones


Just the small matter of it costing roughly NZ's GDP to run a carrier for a year
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about 12 years ago

A super carrier has a crew of about 5,000.  The whole of the NZDF could fit inside a M1 Abrams.


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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

NZRAF bought some T-6 Texans trainers a while back, am digging the black paint job.

am told the next big purchase will be replacements for the Hercs (SURPRISE!) which might be Airbus A400's.

which I am also told is a bad thing? Not sure why though.

The props look cool though.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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about 11 years ago

Nothing can kick arse like a Black Herc...except maybe a Fairchild A10

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 11 years ago · edited about 11 years ago · History

A-10's always make me drool, seem to be more a counter insurgency craft these days, though they can't really loiter and flip back like a Tucano.

I read a while back that there is an alleged plan to use F-35s as replacements down the line. 

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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about 11 years ago

When the gattling gun gets working EVERYONE dives for cover and craps themselves! Not known as a Tank Buster for playing nice. Youtube has some excellent footage.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 11 years ago

Not sure if it was a modified vulcan or something else? but the gun itself has just become redundant with smart bombs these days, it's such an impressive cannon but only allows for about 16 seconds of continuous fire, but thats not any surprise for a cannon on a craft, bursts usually do the trick, especially as the rounds will probably have depleted uranium tips.

Somehow they're wanting this new fangled quad cannon on the F-35s which is being held up due to congress in the states.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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about 11 years ago

- latest Private Eye

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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