The Economy/Employment situation in NZ

Hey guys, as the thread title suggests, I'm curious to see what the state of play is around the country at the moment in terms of work. We all see the commentary around the place at the moment re: job cuts, people upping sticks and heading across the ditch for more opportunity/$$$, and people taking work below their qualification/skill level just to pay bills etc etc. Just wanting to see who is thriving, who is surviving and where opportunities may lie.

Apologies if this touches a nerve to anyone affected by recent government department cuts, and those who have been affected by the economic downturn in general and are out of work/actively looking for employment as well. It's pretty grim out there at the moment.

If allowed, would it also be possible to share job links for those who may be interested? I know it depends on the region, so it may not be applicable to everyone (I live and work in New Plymouth for example) but I'm sure people may be open to opportunities if they are presented with them.

I'll lead off anyway - Taranaki isn't immune (see Methanex & Ports of Taranaki news recently) but we've been lucky of sorts given a relative diversity of work around the region. I work in manufacturing, but given the uncertainty over the past 3-5 years pre/post COVID and now the seemingly drawn out economic downturn, I don't think I've seen our future pipeline of work look so strong. For what it's worth I know my employer will be on the lookout for about 8-10 people over the next little while, so I am happy to pass on details if anyone is on the lookout.

Curious to hear what's going on out there though, the good, the bad, and the ugly. 

anyone at a govt agency except MFAT is going through massive restructures. My team just survived being cut only to be moved to the depatment next in the firing line.

I hear Corrections is the place to go. Lot's of vacancies around the country.

theprof

anyone at a govt agency except MFAT is going through massive restructures. My team just survived being cut only to be moved to the depatment next in the firing line.

Yeah, I'm not oblivious to it. Wellington (and I'm guessing to a slightly lesser degree, other centres as well) has been pillaged on that front.

Anyone who's worked in the public service, would you be wary about staying with them or finding work in a different department in the future? 

Sort of sums things up unfortunately.

David the idiot talking about teachers stealing children’s lunches must have taken inspiration seeing trump talking about immigrants eating pets.

It’s all about the rich for the next few years and by god they will protect it at all costs even if the growth area of the economy is the prison system and therefore corrections.

First, manufacture a crisis is usually the TINA approach.

I dunno- I’ve lived car free for 6 years and not missed a moment in traffic. Though the walking was supposed to help me not put on weight, which has happened this year in spades. I could probably only do the living car free in Auckland or Wellington in NZ and that’d be with bludging lifts and more car rental bills than we’ve had here. And not getting to the good places you need a car for that much.

Anyway, Mum keeps telling me to look outside Auckland, but I’m not sure I’m still kitted out for that. At least there are no bears!

Bernard Hickey in the Kaka says all the fiscal problems that are justifying ripping up the Health service etc are bollocks:

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So a lot of the depressed economic conditions are the result of the government firing people and cutting spending to fund their pet projects for their backers. Which is a depressing thing to read or think about. 

Hope you’re all doing okay and are more flexible and ninja-like than our primary produce and ex-state owned companies dominated economy. It is intimidating to listen when most of you talk about your skills and the training you’re doing! 

Met someone from Ohakune last week and they’re anticipating closing the business they’ve had there for 15 years once the mill goes.

Great news about Taranaki. It seems like a nice part of the country. For me the only thing would be that in Auckland you have this BS feeling of being part of a multi-cultural international city and you have to look carefully to see the 19th C. 

In Taranaki I felt the race relations, perhaps as a visitor. (Which I don’t and should in the Waikato, perhaps because the river isn’t as powerful on the skyline as the mountain!) It feels hard to hide from the idea that everything between the x and the mountain was taken or ‘sold’ for a pittance. I mean I guess I’ve benefited as much as anyone, but it’s harder to ignore that clear view of New Zealand. It’s more honest I guess. 

The weak economy is mostly due to the Reserve Bank hiking up interest rates the last 18 months. Like all Western economies post the Covid sugar rush stimuli, NZ had a runaway inflation problem. The most effective if blunt instrument to rein that in is raising interest rate rises. It takes time (lag effect) but eventually home owners feel the squeeze (feel poorer) and stop spending. Businesses get cash flow problems with a double whammy of higher debt servicing costs, and customers spending less.

Those same businesses start to lay people off, people start to worry about their jobs (current situation) so consumer spending gets reined in even further. Businesses that post Covid were nicely racking up their prices with lots of demand, have to stop that or even start to drop prices to clear aged stock - get cash. Staff can no longer safely ask for a wage increase. Property developers can't make projects work, as the debt costs are too high, properties go unsold, house prices drop, developers go bust, tradies don't get paid etc etc etc. All that starts to rein inflation.

It causes pain to the economy and yes sadly unemployment goes up, but it all must happen to get inflation back into the desired 2-3% band. You have inflation above that long term, and it just becomes a nasty basket case spiral of hiking prices, hiking wage increases and damaging high inflation. Worst case a Turkey, an Argentina. Fiscal incompetence at it's worst.

And that is by far the major factor now, as to why the NZ economy is currently a bit shark. The RB want & need it so. That and some poor management by the Reserve Bank and Robertson through late 2020-2021. The RB slashed interest rates back then too low, and Robertson put too much liquidity into the economy, pushing inflation higher that it should have gone. Grant has done well to bluff Otago Uni into that nice fat cat $600K plus salary. Though I'll give him some slack as everyone was in many ways driving a bit blind during that time, as no one alive had ever experienced a global pandemic.

Now slowly there are some green shoots, of turning the corner. Inflation getting under control, interest rates now heading down, and the majority of business owners (large and small) being happier with this Govt, lead by the thumb in a suit.
'25 will be better than '24.

coochiee

The weak economy is mostly due to the Reserve Bank hiking up interest rates the last 18 months. Like all Western economies post the Covid sugar rush stimuli, NZ had a runaway inflation problem. The most effective if blunt instrument to rein that in is raising interest rate rises. It takes time (lag effect) but eventually home owners feel the squeeze (feel poorer) and stop spending. Businesses get cash flow problems with a double whammy of higher debt servicing costs, and customers spending less.

Those same businesses start to lay people off, people start to worry about their jobs (current situation) so consumer spending gets reined in even further. Businesses that post Covid were nicely racking up their prices with lots of demand, have to stop that or even start to drop prices to clear aged stock - get cash. Staff can no longer safely ask for a wage increase. Property developers can't make projects work, as the debt costs are too high, properties go unsold, house prices drop, developers go bust, tradies don't get paid etc etc etc. All that starts to rein inflation.

It causes pain to the economy and yes sadly unemployment goes up, but it all must happen to get inflation back into the desired 2-3% band. You have inflation above that long term, and it just becomes a nasty basket case spiral of hiking prices, hiking wage increases and damaging high inflation. Worst case a Turkey, an Argentina. Fiscal incompetence at it's worst.

And that is by far the major factor now, as to why the NZ economy is currently a bit shark. The RB want & need it so. That and some poor management by the Reserve Bank and Robertson through late 2020-2021. The RB slashed interest rates back then too low, and Robertson put too much liquidity into the economy, pushing inflation higher that it should have gone. Grant has done well to bluff Otago Uni into that nice fat cat $600K plus salary. Though I'll give him some slack as everyone was in many ways driving a bit blind during that time, as no one alive had ever experienced a global pandemic.

Now slowly there are some green shoots, of turning the corner. Inflation getting under control, interest rates now heading down, and the majority of business owners (large and small) being happier with this Govt, lead by the thumb in a suit.
'25 will be better than '24.

So punish beneficiaries? For structural unemployment caused by the Reserve Bank being over zealous? That’s just inhumane.

That’s not even covering the significant part of the inflation which was an international issue due to supply chain issues as a result of the war in the Ukraine and other flare ups. 

This is an ideological government where butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. 

They’ve committed to one road that’ll be 10% of all infrastructure spending, not just roading, not just transport, of all infrastructure including hospitals and schools (god forbid our population increases) for the next 25 years. 

The main point being we’re being told everything is in crisis so we have to take our medicine of cut backs, but that’s total garbage. The cuts are an ideological choice which will require more consultants and more private solutions to cover an under resourced public sector. But as consultants recently pointed out, even if PPP were a good idea, (and usually they’re a very mixed blessing) there is a limit to the private capital available for those kinds of projects. Something will miss out.

And we’re planning to open more productive land to housing for which we don’t have the infrastructure for, rather than build up.

Eh, sorry mate, but we’re bad days Manchester United. Run on the ideas of Yanks who don’t give a crap about us, while we keep thinking we are something special and we don’t have to plan properly for the future. Climate change? Leaky stadium? Those aren’t real things, don’t be silly. Heritage, Kiwi, tuatara, tui and the rugby World Cup. Send us those dividends and borrow to get them to us.

Sharke mate, let myself get sucked in to talking politics. I prefer people who piss down, but don’t try and BS ya that it’s raining to this lot, tbh.

When you inherit a fiscal deficit and a blowing out of the national debt, you have to make some hard decisions.

NZ has to be returned to a fiscal surplus to yes see greater investment in infrastructure, education, health and importantly the battle against crime. Crime is complex issue, for sure often connected to poverty, and yeah even me would say a link back to colonialism. But you also have to give your Police & Justice systems all the tools, to deter criminal behaviour. If not it's bad for all, except the crims. 

When I visited ChCh last year, I was shocked to be told I shouldn't park my particular rental car on the street, at my mate's place in Cashmere, as it was at a high risk of being stolen. Apparently it was the make & model car thieves would drive around looking for. That stuff is just unheard of here in Aussie. Of course in a tragic ironic sense Australia is dumping some of it's worse crims as 501s in Aotearoa who have almost zero connection to their birth country.

For last few years some of NZ's best (and worst) have been leaving the country, mostly for Australia. Nearest neighbour, bigger economy, more opportunities, higher av wages, warmer weather, same language, similar culture, no entry visa requirement - it's a no brainer.

Of the ones I meet here in QLD (I've been in Aussie on & off since 2006), the warmer weather, higher wages, far lower crime, and general sense that 'success' is encouraged (a bit more American in that sense/less tall poppy stuff) seem the main factors for the move. Many of those NZers have come here to start a business. Virtually all of them are scathing of the 6 years of the Ardern/Hipkiss Govt. It's a constant refrain they felt no love, their productive hard work not recognised, and life all got too hard.

Where NZ has been shark recently regardless of who has been in government is it's Productivity Growth. Productivity compares the amount of goods and services produced (output) with the amount of inputs used to produce them. Productivity growth is hugely important ito obtain strong economic growth (GDP growth) and thus high GDP per capita. ie without productivity growth your living standards as a nation start to drop. Yes copied from elsewhere!

Since 2011, annual productivity growth in NZ has averaged in at just 0.2% – one of the worst in the OECD. It's a boring topic, but one that should be front & centre in Kiwi's minds. If NZ want's great public services (including being able to look after the most disadvantaged well), how does the poor productivity growth get turned around. What can be done to incentivise the private sector to invest in R&D, increase automation, add value to primary products not just ship them overselves cheaply in a raw form etc etc etc
 
Seeing thousands of people move to Australia, many highly skilled, only to replace them with low skilled migrants to pick fruit, drive an Uber, get ripped off by a dodgy immigration agent - that's just making the productivity situation worse. That's somehow got to be turned around. Needs a bipartisan approach, which of course means it will never get the attention it deserves

The national debt has been well under control. There is no blowing out financial crisis.

And your budget is a set of choices:

You spend your money on one road you exclude other things. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/one-road-to-dominate-10-of-infrastructure-spending-for-next-25-years-with-warning-costs-could-double/CRY7AYNIUFF4ROYNFPSRSYL6KM/

Or tax cuts. Or paybacks to landlords.

Good that those who pissed off to Queensland who you talked to don’t like the Ardern government. Kinda not relevant, but thanks.

In fact I remember moving to Queensland: rent was cheaper, food was cheaper and I could earn in a weekend what I earned in a week in NZ. Why? Unions, award wages and penalty rates. I could earn double time on a Sunday and time and a half on Saturday. Plus Brisbane had better public transport, though the Auckland rail tries very hard. Funnily enough we almost rewarded all those essential workers with industry wages, like Aussie had.

I’m sure all your QLD chums who didn’t get a personal merit certificate from Dame Jacinda, will be out fighting for Wellington retail and hospitality.

There are a lot of businesses there doing it tough because this government decided to abolish their customers.
Worse than COVID they’ve called it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/527396/wellington-venues-use-community-focus-to-deal-with-tough-times-hospitality-group

Productivity growth is a culture issue. No money for innovation. Only money for property. A longstanding one. Funnily enough most MPs are interested parties, having investment properties. The idea of fixing our unbalanced economy to benefit everyone is not considered seriously. We have a property owning oligarchy.

Up until recently here in Japan tge government encouraged children to buy shares by subsidising a certain amount for those below a certain age. American families I’ve met have a culture of buying shares and investing in their companies. This is that capitalist culture. 

And the add value to primary products has been a thing since the beginning of the NZ economy. It’s worse recently because manufacturing in NZ struggles to compete. Ask your mates at Zuru. Certainly clothes made in NZ have almost become a cottage industry from a series of factories making clothes in my lifetime. Our free trade treaties don’t encourage value added NZ goods.

And as for your cheap shots- well I’d take Hunter S Thompson money anytime chum. He’s certainly a better read than all the self satisfied Chicago school economists and their end of history. 

Gotta get back to Hudson-Odoi cutting in and scoring…predictable things. Death, taxes, NZers talking about poor productivity and adding value to their primary exports and Hudson-Odoi cutting inside. 

It’s quite simple Cooch. 

You want the rich and your mates to pay less tax.

Less money comes in so you need to spend less.

So you cut costs and the easiest cost to cut is the employment of the public service.

Then when you finish there you think fudge, we still can’t make up that deficit.

So you then cut health etc etc etc.

Think you should stick to the great work on the kiwi overseas. Because as a kiwi overseas you don’t know too much 

I hope you understand your name as well. 

coochiee wrote : When I visited ChCh last year, I was shocked to be told I shouldn't park my particular rental car on the street, at my mate's place in Cashmere, as it was at a high risk of being stolen. Apparently it was the make & model car thieves would drive around looking for. That stuff is just unheard of here in Aussie. Of course in a tragic ironic sense Australia is dumping some of it's worse crims as 501s in Aotearoa who have almost zero connection to their birth country.

For last few years some of NZ's best (and worst) have been leaving the country, mostly for Australia. Nearest neighbour, bigger economy, more opportunities, higher av wages, warmer weather, same language, similar culture, no entry visa requirement - it's a no brainer.

Of the ones I meet here in QLD (I've been in Aussie on & off since 2006), the warmer weather, higher wages, far lower crime, and general sense that 'success' is encouraged (a bit more American in that sense/less tall poppy stuff) seem the main factors for the move. Many of those NZers have come here to start a business. Virtually all of them are scathing of the 6 years of the Ardern/Hipkiss Govt. It's a constant refrain they felt no love, their productive hard work not recognised, and life all got too hard.

Interesting take on crime and those emigrating to Australia and its one that just isnt true. Particularly about crime i visited both NSW and Queensland twice recently and your take on crime certainly dosnt fit with what i saw on TV and speaking to friends and family. Youth crime is rampant and despite attempts gang crime is still very much a thing. With Aussie exporting many of their worst crims, even though most of them have lived most of there lives over there and its in Aussie where they learnt to be crimes. It hasnt helped much in reducing crime. 
Its a pretty common thread in the Aussie papers how youth crime particularly is rampant and much work is being done to try and fix it. We have had an increase in NZ in gun crime recently but doubt very much it would be at the level it is in Melbourne and Sydney.

Have a number of family and friends who have moved over recently and none of them have felt the need to blame Adern/Hipkins for their leaving. Most left due to higher wages and the perception that they got more for their money when it came to buying a house and in one case they were able to access better medicine .
Have also had some return because they felt it was more relaxed over here.
Love both countries and have blended family so visit regularly but sorry this statement is just not true :
"I was shocked to be told I shouldn't park my particular rental car on the street, at my mate's place in Cashmere, as it was at a high risk of being stolen. Apparently it was the make & model car thieves would drive around looking for. That stuff is just unheard of here in Aussie."
That stuff does happen in Aussie and a lot more than you seem to be aware of.
 

Guys I think YoungHeart has opened this up to talk about where jobs are available and help folks out. 

None of us either burbling or throwing shots is furthering that.

As someone who also had a car stolen in NZ 6 hours after flying in, from a well lit movie theatre car park, losing personally-fitted golf clubs I’d had since I was 14 and indoor football boots I’d had for 10 years and a whole lot of other stuff on December 23rd, which meant no car to drive to the bach Christmas, yeh crime sucks. There was no particular onsell value to any of that, (though there was a lot of personal value) and it was found torched. Welcome to NZ. 

On the other hand I can imagine the outcry if people in the car of a drunk driver started getting criminal charges against them too and it seriously affected their career and standing.

In any case, none of this is related particularly to employment or the economy.

martinb

Guys I think YoungHeart has opened this up to talk about where jobs are available and help folks out. 

None of us either burbling or throwing shots is furthering that.

As someone who also had a car stolen in NZ 6 hours after flying in, from a well lit movie theatre car park, losing personally-fitted golf clubs I’d had since I was 14 and indoor football boots I’d had for 10 years and a whole lot of other stuff on December 23rd, which meant no car to drive to the bach Christmas, yeh crime sucks. There was no particular onsell value to any of that, (though there was a lot of personal value) and it was found torched. Welcome to NZ. 

On the other hand I can imagine the outcry if people in the car of a drunk driver started getting criminal charges against them too and it seriously affected their career and standing.

In any case, none of this is related particularly to employment or the economy.

Yeah that was the angle I was chasing. Thank you. 🙂

I know there was a politics thread in here too, but wanted to keep it separate, even though there are a lot of close links between both the politics of this country and the flow on effects to employment and other areas that affect people in general (health, infrastructure etc etc)

Anyway, if anyone was interested - New Plymouth location. Few different types of rosters around the floor (5 day rotating - Days/Nights/Afternoons, 4x2 roster starting Sunday night through to Friday & 4x4 - 24/7 roster). Christmas/New Years shut down, medical insurance and life insurance to 3x annual base salary, and 5 weeks annual leave per year after 3 years of service.

https://www.seek.co.nz/job/78575995?type=standout&ref=search-standalone#sol=2849ba32479e76c15fca028c5a2eeb12d2ad4e91

Started in the same position/role on about 55k, although I think now starting is about 65k. Room to move and up-skill too. Have almost doubled that starting rate since I've been there. 

We upped sticks and left our beloved Gisborne earlier in the year for the promise of Christchurch and better opportunities and life for us and our kids. 

Ain't much in Gisborne workwise to keep you ticking over unless you can crack it in Forestry or Roadworks. 

My missus took a stab at a longshot promotion with her work that would base her down in Chch and landed it. From there we thought bugger it nothing ventured nothing gained, this is our out. 

Took me the best part of three months to find full-time employment. A lot of getting down to the final interview and prospective employer going with a different option. There's tough competition out there across the board at the moment. The job hunting process is brutal and mentally exhausting.  And it was tight we burnt through all our savings and had about a week to spare before it would have been very grim. 

Truthfully I really am not enjoying the role I've taken up one bit, and would give anything for an exit. I get the impression my missus frels the same about her new role too. But at the same time we just have to grin and bare it because that brief glimpse into the current savage state of the job market was enough to be grateful for what we currently have. I know others who have been laid off in recent times and still struggling to find anything remotely close to their field. We are a few months on the otherside and very lucky to be able to rebuild our foundation and be on the path to hopefully presenting our kids of a world of opportunity they never would have gotten staying in rough as guts Gizzy. 

Sorry YoungHeartHM didnt mean to drag it off topic just didnt like the  insinuation that crime was worse in NZ when just looking at on line Aussie papers show they have it just as bad and in some areas far worse.

As for jobs being retired it dosnt affect me as much but talking to both my children both are worried.
My daughter has worked for the Interislander for over 20 years and with the current stuff going down is very concerned about being made redundant. She says there are to many people commenting on things that they dont really have any idea about. 
 While my son is Head Chef at one of Mr Foleys restaurants and they are doing it really tough.They had managed to get through Covid and things had started to get back to normal. But with all the recent job cuts in Wellington they just arnt getting the foot traffic they used to. Also dosnt help the WCC seems determined to destroy the inner city by either removing parking or charging exorbitant prices and putting in bloody cycle ways every where  He has struggled to get decent staff and finds many have unrealistic views of what they should be being paid.

ballane

Sorry YoungHeartHM didnt mean to drag it off topic just didnt like the  insinuation that crime was worse in NZ when just looking at on line Aussie papers show they have it just as bad and in some areas far worse.

As for jobs being retired it dosnt affect me as much but talking to both my children both are worried.
My daughter has worked for the Interislander for over 20 years and with the current stuff going down is very concerned about being made redundant. She says there are to many people commenting on things that they dont really have any idea about. 
 While my son is Head Chef at one of Mr Foleys restaurants and they are doing it really tough.They had managed to get through Covid and things had started to get back to normal. But with all the recent job cuts in Wellington they just arnt getting the foot traffic they used to. Also dosnt help the WCC seems determined to destroy the inner city by either removing parking or charging exorbitant prices and putting in bloody cycle ways every where  He has struggled to get decent staff and finds many have unrealistic views of what they should be being paid.

No worries all, it's definitely like walking a tight rope out there at the moment, I know what that's like - Started at current employer in January 2020...A lot of sleepless nights over the course of that next year from March onwards.

As for the part about decent staff, well, some things never change -  Seems everyone wants the pay, but no one seems to want to do the hard yards and put in the work. It's probably why I value people who put in the effort over many other attributes, but maybe that's just my manufacturing background that's engrained my attitude towards that. 

Good to see you back on the forums as well Ballane.

Thanks YH. Son was saying many of those that are applying are applying for positions lower than what they are qualified for. Unfortunately hospitality in Wellington is taking a hit at the moment. Have seen claims   where people think its just a normal turnover of businesses. But when we are seeing places close that have been around for a number of years its more than just that.

Its something you never see commented on by those in power about all the job lay offs in the public service. But where do they think all these people are going to find jobs or do they just become yet another hidden statistic on a benefit.

Wellington city has been hit with the perfect sotrm of a shark council killing retail by removing car parks in the street without replacing them with carparking buildings, honestly who the fudge does their shopping on a bike??? That along with job lay offs and flexible working with govt agencies the hospo businesses that relied on your public sector buying their lunch/snacks in town have been hit hard. Businesses in the suburbs seem to be doing ok - its just a shift in the customer base really.

theprof

Wellington city has been hit with the perfect sotrm of a shark council killing retail by removing car parks in the street without replacing them with carparking buildings, honestly who the fudge does their shopping on a bike??? That along with job lay offs and flexible working with govt agencies the hospo businesses that relied on your public sector buying their lunch/snacks in town have been hit hard. Businesses in the suburbs seem to be doing ok - its just a shift in the customer base really.

Yeah but the affects are bit more than just a shift in the customer base. Wellington City dosnt have the nite life it once had. Going out in the city used to be great fun not that i do it any more. But my kids and their friends reckon its not the place it used to be and at times is down right unsafe.
Was in town the other day and there seemed to be heaps of empty retail places and not sure if it was just me but just didnt seem to be the people around there was before.
Not sure how all those who have lost there jobs are able to hold on must be bloody hard. interested to hear where all these people are meant to be getting jobs.

YoungHeartHM

martinb

Guys I think YoungHeart has opened this up to talk about where jobs are available and help folks out. 

None of us either burbling or throwing shots is furthering that.

As someone who also had a car stolen in NZ 6 hours after flying in, from a well lit movie theatre car park, losing personally-fitted golf clubs I’d had since I was 14 and indoor football boots I’d had for 10 years and a whole lot of other stuff on December 23rd, which meant no car to drive to the bach Christmas, yeh crime sucks. There was no particular onsell value to any of that, (though there was a lot of personal value) and it was found torched. Welcome to NZ. 

On the other hand I can imagine the outcry if people in the car of a drunk driver started getting criminal charges against them too and it seriously affected their career and standing.

In any case, none of this is related particularly to employment or the economy.

Yeah that was the angle I was chasing. Thank you. 🙂

I know there was a politics thread in here too, but wanted to keep it separate, even though there are a lot of close links between both the politics of this country and the flow on effects to employment and other areas that affect people in general (health, infrastructure etc etc)

Anyway, if anyone was interested - New Plymouth location. Few different types of rosters around the floor (5 day rotating - Days/Nights/Afternoons, 4x2 roster starting Sunday night through to Friday & 4x4 - 24/7 roster). Christmas/New Years shut down, medical insurance and life insurance to 3x annual base salary, and 5 weeks annual leave per year after 3 years of service.

https://www.seek.co.nz/job/78575995?type=standout&ref=search-standalone#sol=2849ba32479e76c15fca028c5a2eeb12d2ad4e91

Started in the same position/role on about 55k, although I think now starting is about 65k. Room to move and up-skill too. Have almost doubled that starting rate since I've been there. 

Cheers mate. 
Yeh, did have to dash back to NZ for non-holiday reasons last week. It’s a bit less fun flying in from 33 degrees to the end of an NZ winter. And actually the flying back and reacclimatising has been toughest. Was having a good summer- it’s probably about 8/9 weeks of over 30 degrees getting into autumn! 

Getting a real craving for NZ food. Used to get a meat pie at the local supermarket. Even missing the salt and vinegar and chicken chips. The former are super rare and the later non-existent. And a kebab here is chicken and sliced cabbage. Lamb is also fairly rare. 

I found that driving off peak in Auckland was fine. Get in the lane, stay at the speed limit. Not so much doing those connections over the windy mountain open roads that are 100 and then drop to 45 going round a corner! That’s a real NZ drive. And then there were all those landslides which are one of my nightmares.

Had a few people in my orbit move both ways of late. Most basically trying to slot into similar employment situations to what they had, nothing too exciting. If you got in the Auckland property market you’re good, otherwise renting with most salaries and kids is a fun game. 

It does seem that the tourism and education industry is confident, although there was consolidation and the need to gear up quickly. 

Good initiative, helping the Fever out 👍. Means you get a chance of colleagues who you can talk about the Nix with. Solid plan. 

ballane

theprof

Wellington city has been hit with the perfect sotrm of a shark council killing retail by removing car parks in the street without replacing them with carparking buildings, honestly who the fudge does their shopping on a bike??? That along with job lay offs and flexible working with govt agencies the hospo businesses that relied on your public sector buying their lunch/snacks in town have been hit hard. Businesses in the suburbs seem to be doing ok - its just a shift in the customer base really.

Yeah but the affects are bit more than just a shift in the customer base. Wellington City dosnt have the nite life it once had. Going out in the city used to be great fun not that i do it any more. But my kids and their friends reckon its not the place it used to be and at times is down right unsafe.
Was in town the other day and there seemed to be heaps of empty retail places and not sure if it was just me but just didnt seem to be the people around there was before.
Not sure how all those who have lost there jobs are able to hold on must be bloody hard. interested to hear where all these people are meant to be getting jobs.

Oh I agree with you....the nightlife isnt really my thing anymore, but the daytime foot traffic is way down. People dont come into the city to shop anymore cos you simply cant park anywhere - its easier to travel to the Hutt or Porirua to the places with car parks. Lunchtime food places struggle because of all of the lay offs and flexy working meaning less people around (I'm totally pro WFH by the way). Cycleways have killed some retail stores in Newtown, killed of several corner stores in Island Bay. The Berhampore intersection improvements are gonna destroy that shopping centre.

I'm sorry, but here are plenty of car parks available in the CBD.

https://www.wilsonparking.co.nz/parking-locations/wellington/wellington-cbd/?carParkFeature=

2ndBest

I'm sorry, but here are plenty of car parks available in the CBD.

https://www.wilsonparking.co.nz/parking-locations/wellington/wellington-cbd/?carParkFeature=

Sure, if you want to pay through the nose! 

theprof

anyone at a govt agency except MFAT is going through massive restructures. My team just survived being cut only to be moved to the depatment next in the firing line.

The government department I'm at (not MFAT) is safe from job cuts, at least this year. But do know a couple of people impacted in other agencies. 
Been through restructures multiple times before at other agencies so pleased to avoid it this time. My only experience is government (15 years now) so I assume it's difficult to move into private sector when up against others with private sector experience. Maybe it's different now (been happy at the same employer for quite a few years now) but the times I've tried in the past that was always the issue. 

AucklandPhoenix

It’s quite simple Cooch. 

You want the rich and your mates to pay less tax.

Less money comes in so you need to spend less.

So you cut costs and the easiest cost to cut is the employment of the public service.

Then when you finish there you think fudge, we still can’t make up that deficit.

So you then cut health etc etc etc.

Think you should stick to the great work on the kiwi overseas. Because as a kiwi overseas you don’t know too much 

I hope you understand your name as well. 

My misspelling 4 letter word comrade. No Govt, likes to cut public sector services like health, education and the Police. That's longer term political suicide, a zero sum game. Most of the population use one or more of those services in some form at least monthly. The voting masses ain't happy if there is visible deterioration, out you go.

In the 6 years of the Labour lead Govt, the number of public servants increased by roughly one-third, or just under 18,500 employees. Yet there was no discernable improvement in hospital waiting times, education levels, crime stats or whatever metric you want to use. So a huge increase in Govt expenditure for what? Some mint farewell parties. You can't spend $40K on your lunch break getting the appropriate large card, that the receiver turfs in recycling bin on the way home. No a farewell like that takes days of planning, need the proper FTE for that.

Look losing your job for a lot of people sucks. Especially if you have a mortgage, kids etc that brings in stress for sure. Those people have my sympathy. For some (I've been one, and had friends the same) redundancy is a dream outcome. A nice chunky payout, some time off, and knowledge you have the skill set and work ethic to soon enough find another job. Of course it helps when you are younger sans kids and prepared to move around the country. 

Or like a guy here at my local gym in Aus, you take the 12 month full salary reduno payout, and go buy a local bike shop business. 

The scene in 'Up in the Air', the movie where George Clooney & Anna Kendrick are flying around the US in GFC (millions laid off) giving folks the sad news they are being let go. One sacked employee venting to young Kendrick, then wise old sage Clooney looking at the guys's CV and noting he trained years prior as a sous chef or something, obviously the guy's true passion. Clooney calling him out on it, and saying with his payout here was achance to be true to himself, and go back to that true calling. And man ain't that so true in the modern Western world, folks doing dull office jobs that really they shouldn't be, and being miserable.

Anyway the Govt's role ain't to create jobs in the public service, to lessen the dole queue. This ain't socialist Cuba (65-75% of it's workforce in the public sector, depending where you get your data from).

NZ's unemployment rate is 4.6%. So over 95% of the population do have a job. It may not be a job you like, or want to be in long term. But try Spain at 12% job less & youth unemployment 26%. Or try the many countries around the world, where the unemployment benefit doesn't exist. In Peru you don't find a way to make some money, you and your family don't eat. There for most having a 'career' is not in their vocab, that's a first world luxury. You just work, trading your time for cash. That's what your dad did, your abuelo before that. It's all you know. Living week to week until you are dead, or your kids starting caring for you in your dotage.

To me the inference that Mr Thumb is only the PM because he wants to make himself and the wealthy like Rob Morrison, even wealthier is tin foil hat territory. Folk get into politics mostly due to a mix of ego, and a belief they can actually help NZ. 

Who stands to benefit more for having their snout in the great political perks & benefits trough, ex Air NZ CEO Luxon (former salary $4.2M), or ex cinema projectionist/hospo worker Ricardo March. Look at how Darleen Tana is so desperately trying to hang on to her nice juicy salary.


Coochiee is a 35 year old nickname derived from Footrot Flats. The 1989 ARL Grand Final between Canberra and Balmain was the greatest sporting drama I'm ever seen on the telly to that point, in the age of 3 channels. I did a Siggie and for 2 years at Massey Uni dabbled in the working man's game of rugby league. Coronation Park in Palmy, 'smash him bro'. Off to Dannevirke to play the Mongrel Mob. The superfit Army team in Waiouru. Manawatu Prison for game. They didn't play away. Was good fun, I'm a big unit, and enjoyed trying to put on a shot, plus the little sneaky offloads. But the Samoan boys in the team liked to make fun of my beloved Swanndri and gum boot attire. The nickname just stuck. About 2 years ago an American female informed me yeah of a whole different name meaning! Had no idea. The joke is on me.

To Ballane. There is definitely a link between crime and employment - with small businesses anyway. 

Not major businesses closing here due to crime - but they all employ staff, pay tax, and put cash into the economy.

Look there are for sure some dodgy burbs in Australia, with high crime. Broadmeadows in Melbs, pockets of Western Sydney, parts of Logan (Outer Brissy). These sharkter holes all have one thing in common, they are in the Western burbs away from the coast. My advice just don't live there. They ain't nice.

Aussie is a big place, with a massive coastline. There are plenty of smaller cities and towns near the coast with low crime, where housing (renting or ownership) won't cost you a kidney or two. Maybe it's just harder to avoid being a crime victim at some point in NZ, because it's just a small place. It's a short hop from Linwood to leafy Cashmere for those intent on a car thief. In about 15 years total of living in Oztraylia, my sole incident is someone breaking into the street parked old HQ Holden in Collingwood, Melbs (you could open it with a well placed kitchen knife), reclining the front seat for a nice sleep and emptying the parking meter coins. It was July, so I'm guessing a homeless soul looking for a warm bed!


I live on the Sunshine Coast. Interesting reading Rock Hopper above. I was talking to a Brazilian Kiwi here about a month ago. Our kids in the same playground, his boy wearing a Gremio top. Dad & Mum had moved to NZ from Brazil about 20 years prior, lived in Cromwell and other parts before settling in Gizzy for about 10 years. Kids were born in the Poverty Bay.

He said the crime just got to them eventually, and they moved here about a year ago. He's a concreter. Plenty of work. The sun is out most days, so that means concrete gets laid most days. He can park his truck pretty much everywhere without fear of it being broken into.

Look without being traitorous towards NZ, I'd recommend that anyone who was really struggling financially in Aotearoa to look at Oz.  It doesn't have to be forever, but yeah if life is struggle in NZ why not.

We are blessed where we live on the Sunshine Coast. Not the most exciting or culturally diverse place granted (Rangiora by the Beach), but when you are raising young kids as older parents you want it slow paced and just easy. The rug rats are exhausting enough as it is, so who wants to be fudgeing stuck in traffic for hours a day, in a big city. That's a shark outcome in my book.

We have a great local community,with the school, beach, hall/library, shopping mall and local parks centre pieces. Good quality free state run schools. It's a bit like the local rural community where I grew up in the Rapa. Just more jandals than gumboots. Give your kids your time, plus some water and they are happy.

Like NZ the biggest issue is finding somewhere to live, especially when you first arrive. But once you get over that tough hurdle, life is pretty damn good. Plenty of work around. And course if you are fortunate enough to be able to create an income from a home office, it has all you need. Brisbane an hour down the road if you need to see a museum or some other big city caper.

Oh and on the work front, the aged care/disability work space is massive here. This is a newly wed, nearly dead demographic. A Tauranga/Mt Maunganui.

The National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) has exploded here the last 10 years or so. All sorts of employers looking for NDIS workers. You don't need to be a nurse or anything. Though there are some qualifications that are useful to get. A salaried NDIS carer will get $27-37/hour. Plus super (Kiwi Saver), annual, sick leave etc. A privately contracted NDIS carer can get $45-55/hr. You just need an Australian Business Number (ABN). Obviously no annual leave, or sick leave with that. But with the mild winters it's rare to get the flu here for long.

There is a male carer who looks after a tetraplegic guy, who parks up the wheelchair in the shade outside our local library every week day. The carer guy told me the above $ figures. He said it's the most rewarding job he's ever had. He still works part time as a gym PT, but he could work 7 days per week if he wanted as a carer. The NDIS agencies are always looking for carers. The tetraplegic guy is low intensity, and the carer guy mostly just sits there reading a book. Sometimes I see him with his hand on the tetraplegic guy's shoulder, just letting him know he's there.

In our apartment block (purpose built for NDIS patients with wide lifts & hallways etc for wheelchairs) is another carer who spends alot of time outside walking her client's dog, then sitting in the local cafe outside for a coffee with said dog! Tough life.

Of course you get more high intensity clients with mental health issues etc. My cousin's son Luke is another carer, and he got given a young angry guy who a paralysed after a skateboard fall. Luke introduced the guy to wheelchair rugby and apparently that's helped massively with the anger he felt about his accident.

Anyway thought this maybe of some small value to anyone considering a move to Aus, and struggling to figure out what to do if they ever did.

Always fun to see the left v right arguments, feel like I'm at a tennis match, watching the ball go back and forth 😅

Do agree with MartinB & Gareth Morgan on one issue, NZ would be better if less was invested in property and more in shares or businesses as is far more common in the US

If I was in Govt I'd somehow incentivise that cultural shift (don't ask me how), bring in a capital gains tax (CGT) like Aus has (even though that would likely hit me personally at some point), and also means test the pension. If you have say $2M in net assets outside the family home, a reduced pension pro rata down to nothing by say net $5M.

I'd somehow seek to ring fence the tax received from CGT, to only be spent on Govt infrastructure projects. The tax received private asset sales to be spent solely on  building new national assets. A slightly easier sell to the Baby Boomers, or anyone who's worked hard to build an asset nest egg.

Taking away the ability to deduct interest on rental properties was dumb legislation. It was just meaning rents going up even faster. Landlords & renters both hit. And being a landlord is running a business like any other. Landlords should however do the Healthy Homes stuff. The small minority of landlords complaining about those requirements give the rest a bad name.

Lloyd Morrison had some great ideas. A sad loss on many fronts.
GDP per capita NZ $US54K. Australia $69K. So an 'average' Aussie is roughly 28% more wealthy than an 'average' Kiwi. 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/illoyd-morrisoni-time-to-reclaim-status-as-gods-own/GINM7MPCSBGDBJB5GRJJQ7SIQI/

The only way this will be achieved is through the electorate consistently holding governments accountable for progress towards a measurable goal over a very long period of time. We need the "person on the street" to become as passionate about our country's economic performance as he or she is about our sporting results - after all, we don't even tolerate an All Blacks loss in a Rugby World Cup quarter-final (and I'm not suggesting we should).

Calling for a dramatic increase in New Zealand's productivity could be confused with advocating untrammelled growth and short-term gain.

But we've seen what the blind pursuit of short-term profit can do, and we think the way forward is to promote New Zealand's long-term prosperity, rather than pursue growth myopically.

Just to touch on your point above re: infrastructure there coochiee.

I think anyone who can get in and work in infrastructure/infrastructure adjacent industries in this country over the next wee while should be able to set themselves up pretty well for the next few decades in this country. That's things like roads of national significance, whatever 3 waters is called these days, and even stretching to the electrical grid (my personal opinion on this is that electricity transmission will be NZ's next 3 waters - our national grid is old!) 

3 Waters at (iirc) a quoted $180 billion of investment over the next 30 years. Transpower wanting to invest $5 billion over the next 5 years, so you can probably extrapolate that over 10-20-30 years and there's another $20 billion + and that's not even including all the other lines companies around the country who distribute electricity and are responsible for their local networks (think Powerco, WEL Networks, Vector, Orion, Wellington Electricity etc) who already have multi million dollar upgrades going on in their own jurisdictions as it is. 

Lots of opportunities in those type of industry over the next few decades for those out there who may be looking to position themselves.

Just a thought. 

Interesting. My infrastructure knowledge is pretty limited. But I know there are some very big energy projects around QLD (more in the north of the state) planned. Probably like NZ is going to be a huge future demand  for electrical trades, engineering, construction workers and technicians. Like thousands of workers are going to be needed, and already lots of talk about targeted immigration planning.

Many projects here in Oz are financed via Superannuation Funds (think Kiwi Saver funds). ASFA found super funds’ total investment in infrastructure assets had reached $165 billion (8% of total assets) by 2022, up from $30 billion (or 3% of assets) in 2010.

And the investment in green energy projects is increasing, which is good news. I think only WA & QLD (the 2 states with strong mineral lobby groups), are currently dragging the chain re renewable targets to hit.
ASFA analysis found that super funds’ energy-related investments have shifted significantly towards renewables in the past decade.

Energy costs are obviously now a massive challenge for manufacturing. The Ohakune mills closing. Tiwai Point before that. It's one of the few areas where I'd almost consider some form of Govt industry help, especially if it can be shown that longer term spot energy prices will be lower, and these mills profitable again. No idea if that is feasible.

On another infrastruture angle Aussies are used to paying road tolls, especially in the big cities. Even up here on the regional Sunshine Coast where I am, years ago alot of the road network was improved with new toll roads. The toll bridges now removed I presume because they hit their revenue targets. Kiws seem to have an aversion to paying road tolls, but from my limited intel they seem to work regarding getting some of that roading spend eventually paid for.

And they are finally going to build a proper heavy rail line between Brisbane & the Sunny Coast, like there is between Brissy & the GC. But only half will be completed by the 2032 Olympics apparently. Thousands commute down the Bruce Highway to Brisbane each day. Can become a carpark like Auckland's motorways if is an accident. The railway upgrade (park & rides, connecting buses) will make the Sunshine Coast even more popular as a place to call home.

Time for a new thread as getting off subject on this one - “Australia, tin foil and conspiracy theories”

I know this discussion can raise different opinions on the issues but please keep it on topic and not attack other posters. 

Instead of hiding the full comments, I have edits out the personal attacks on previous posts so the rest of their messages stand.

Chur, it certainly caught me off guard. And I thought it was out of character given the exchanges on here previously.

The economy as an idea comes across as a scientific and objective thing, but just to be safe I’m taking the rest to the politics thread and probably not that much anyway because I come here to follow the football. Cheers again 

https://yellowfever.co.nz/categories/off-topic/topics/politics-a-place-to-rant/page/3?highlight=post_1464661