Things that make you go hmmmm

The colour of your skin or your gender should have no bearing. The best person should always get the job. In the NFL, as it turns out, most of the those players happen to be black. The problem you have in the PC world today, is that its used for the catch cry of 'racist' and 'sexist'

In the majority of cases I would agree.

Saying that some races have been fudgeed up beyond all recognition by others 

The only way that race has a chance of leading a normal life is a quota system as the incumbent will fight to protect their own 

Exactly.

The NFL got an "A" for diversity yet its teams consist of 70% black players. How can this be considered a success for "diversity"? Surely this tells us that blacks are enjoying some sort of privilege in the NFL and that is why they are over represented? After all this is the argument used against whites in football in the UK for example.

In the name of true diversity surely the NFL needs to introduce a quota for non black players in order to help create a level playing field and give other races a better chance of representation?

Or is this need for "diversity" all just politically motivated sham and not actually about real diversity at all?

Hmmmmm.

There's not much evidence for this approach actually working. 

Equality of Opportunity, not Equality of Outcome. 

True

But there is also plenty of evidence of the downtrodden when not given that opportunity killing the other

Is there equality of opportunity though? Look at South Africa - their national rugby and cricket teams were traditionally filled with white blokes who had mostly been private schooled. Brining in a quota system encourages those filling representative teams at various age groups to look at the talent in other less 'desirable' areas. You only get opportunity if you get seen.

No there isn't Equality of Opportunity across the board, in every industry, for every commodity, etc etc. There is for some things, but certainly not a lot of stuff. 

I am saying put all the effort and resources into creating Equality of Opportunity. Stop wasting it on enforcing Equality of Outcome. It's never worked, it never will, it just makes things worse.

I think you have to try.

When I went to SA for the first time in the early 2000's I was always amazed by the clientele in the business class lounges at airports. All white (perhaps not overly surprising) and no women on most occasions.

These days whilst definitely not 50/50, there is a percentage  of blacks and many more women.

Now people will crap on about tribes and Africa but no one can not say that the blacks were fudgeed over completely by the whites.

Fixing that fudgeed upmsystem unfortunately requires quotas because the whites are not going to give that up otherwise. They are not going to hire blacks or even women into management roles etc unless told they have to do so.

Now because it is so fudgeed up that doesn't happen overnight as you have to do it slowly or everything falls down. It's not done in a generation or even two but gradually you will have a black educated middle class coming through.

The question is if the blacks in the slums of Alexandra will wait two generations. Probably not and if I was living there I wouldn't wait either

Nothing is going to improve until people get jobs.

Unemployment is about 28%. There are more people on social grants than there are people with jobs.

correct, and that is exactly what the quota system is all about, jobs and making a black middle class - you must employ this many blacks in certain positions, this many women etc.

Standards will slip because that quota person hasn't always had the precious advantage of the white, education etc

That middle class blacks son or daughter however may then get that education.

That's why it takes generations

You can't do it too fast or you completely fudge up the country but at the same time it can't be too slow as people won't wait.

The speed is the key and the timing

Unfortunately there will be serious losers in this system and yes the best person will not always get the job. 

However when you move from a system where you can't go to a certain beach because you are black, you need something to address the balance 

Been to SA 3 times, have a number of South African friends (white), and have studied its history and politics pretty closely. Pains me to say it but AP is about 100% correct.

Change had to happen and quickly. Quotas in sport and business sped up that change. But still millions are without work. Not helped by having poor war ridden or poorly governed countries like Mozambique, Angola and Zimbabwe nearby with economic refugees flooding into SA.

The biggest downfall for whites has been huge increase in violent crime. That won’t drop significantly until big drop in unemployment, and higher average wages for blacks. Until then an unemployed, low educated black guy, who may have say lost his parents to HIV, will be tempted to grab a gun when he sees a white person or middle class black drive a nice European car. Not excusing all South Africa’s criminals - but have sympathy for some, when their future seems hopeless.

On the positive front the Springboks have just appointed their first black (not coloured) captain, who was raised in a poor township. Also seemingly an appointment completely on merit by a white coach  (who replaced a black coach).

Then their cricket team has a young black fast bowler (Rabada), who when not suspended is already one of the worlds best.

The sports quota process has undoubtedly sped up the increasing merit selections of blacks in top level SA sport.

Interesting thing about SA is all the talk of the whites coming along and taking things from the locals....but the zulus came from northern africa to South Africa before the whites ever arrived and the zulus stole from, murdered and enslaved other blacks as they traveled south. 

Zulus are not originally from SA.

Why is no-one talking about the terrible things done by the zulus when they came to SA and looking to rectify those in justices carried out by the zulu's?

Anyhow I think SA is fudgeed. Just look how far backwards it has gone in such a short space of time and look at the corrupt politicians.

That's a country going down the tubes imo. They might want to blame apartheid for the woes they face today but imo history will show that the real issue lies somewhere else.

Just like in the USA it is currently trendy to pull down confederate statues but no-one wants to talk about (let alone deal with) black on black crime. 

In 2016 a South African court found a race based quota system inconsistent  with the South African Employment Equity Act.

Because if no one in the world is alive when that happened it doesn't quite have the same significance. You can only really deal with shark and take some responsibility if someone is alive in the world whom experienced it

Trust me crime only became an issue in SA when whites started becoming victims as well as blacks post apartheid. 

That's probably also the reason that no one talks about black on black crime in the good old US of A.

I wouldn't expect that to change under the current regime

'Crime only became an issue when whites started becoming victims.'

That is just a load of crap. I lived there and it was always a concern.

Flawed logic.

I guess we need not worry about the Treaty of Waitangi any more then if we are to apply your line of thinking.

The treaty that was never ratified and therefore not a legal document?

No-one wants to talk about black on black crime in America because it goes against the "blacks are always the victim" narrative being pushed by blm, al sharpton and co. They relentlessly push that narrative and the cucked msm keep lapping it up. Al Sharpton must be laughing at all the liberal whites denouncing their "white privilege" and lying down on the road hoping to be run over by the blm juggernuat so they can atone for their perceived sins.

blm and al always pop up like a jack in the box every time a black is shot by a cop but they are conspicuous by their absence when it is problems within the black community caused by blacks themselves. 

I would take the likes of sharpton more seriously if he showed genuine interest and concern in what his fellow blm buddies were doing to each other, especially with regard to violent crime,  rather than continually playing white on black victim card.

Plenty of whites get shot by cops in the USA too but I am struggling to remember the last time whites rioted in response to a police killing.

Hmmmm.

Hey I am looking forward to when the last person alive during WW2 dies then we can just move on and forget about that period of history (according to AP logic) as it just wont matter that much any more when no-one from that era is still alive

For you CHCH Tramping Safety Interesting article. I've always wanted to go up to the top of Mount Hector but I am not that fit and 57.

I guess you still have got over what happened in the first century either?

Thanks for the link, a sad story of a couple of avoidable deaths had the basic tramping guidelines been followed.

The mountains/high country are beautiful places but totally unforgiving if you happen to slip up in any way. The Tararuas have claimed a few lives over the years sadly.

You never conquer a mountain you just happened to have a moment when the mountain lets you get to the top!

Why has the quota process sped this up? It might have encouraged young black people to try the sport, seeing a black person playing it on the tv, which is nice, but that's not a speed-up of anything, just an encouragement for black people to play rugby, which was not the issue being addressed. 

See the Willemse furore recently? The bitterness there from a famous former player? Still now fighting for his dignity, having to prove that he was a merit-based selection, which we don't know if he was or not. Reduced to tears on national tv, refusing to be on camera with white guys involved in those selections. Quotas have been going for 30 years and they're still arguing about the injustice of it all. 

I remember there was a white flanker in the news constantly in the 90s/2000s for not getting picked, always complaining the quota was keeping him down. Great headline grabber for the media at the time.

The media didn't want quotas to work, they just wanted salacious headlines, and they got em from quotas. 

FYI Ntini precluded Rabada by quite a few years in terms of being one of the world's best bowlers for SA, and being black. And unfortunately he had to battle quota-talk in his first few seasons, before people accepted that yes, he was actually good enough. 

All the black players wanted was equality-of-opportunity, to not be left out due to skin colour, not to be included arbitrarily because of skin colour. They didn't want quotas themselves, it's damaging to be considered a quota player, it's not good by any stretch. The reason Chester Williams was so loved was because he was clearly good enough to be there, not because he was some Eric the Eel getting to have a cute little try with the big boys. 

Basically I don't see any connection between enforced quotas and merit-based selection. One does not naturally lead to the other. At some point quotas have to be stopped, and only then does fairness result. People being selected on merit now, are not thankful for quotas, they are thankful they aren't part of one. 

Equality of Opportunity, not Equality of Outcome. 

Safe will employ "Vegans Only":

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/teach...

On the one hand I say fair enough but on the other hand I wonder how the social justice warriors would react if a job was advertised that stipulated that vegans would not be considered for the job...

...hmmm.

Interesting can of worms has just been opened me thinks

Thoughts?

I think you will find that the Naas Botha's of this world wouldn't want to play with a black or work with one unless you made him. That type of attitude is what Wilemse was objecting to on air

Are you stereotyping certain people?

So many double standards.

Hmmmmm.

nope, no stereo types. I have watched enough of boots and all and met enough South African rugby supporters to speak with authority

So much authority that you can even speak for even those you have never met and you can cast them all under some broad (negative) stereotype.

What next: all maori's are lazy?

All koreans eat cats?

and you're a lawyer. Hmmm

Just goes to show that being intelligent doesn't always equate to having your head screwed on.

Bit of a worry that people like you are working in our legal system!

You are wrong, all Koreans eat dog, not cat. ;)

You missed the one about people from Christchurch being rednecks 

Chill guys please. 

Chill?

Its bloody freezing down here in redneck city :D

Imo Pays not to take the OT seriously, sure I like to have a bit of banter (don't we all) and I like to play the devils advocate from time to time, but at the end of the day its a football forum and that is the shared passion that brings us altogether. If you want to really get triggered go watch Parliament TV :)

Israel can build all manner of hi tech weaponry but they can't discover a way to "suppress protestors without killing them"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/10456252...

Netanyahu should be done for war crimes. He is an absolute tyrant.

And why are they protesting in the first place mr netanyahu? 

Furthermore Israel deployed expert sniper units on the border with Gaza and they picked off people yet netanyahu says of the killings:

"Everything you said, Mr Howard, has been tried, and other things and it didn't work and in fact nobody intentionally went out to kill anyone - people died accidentally," Netanyahu said.

So snipers killed people "accidentally".

Yeah right.

Boycott Israel.

Rosemary talks about being progressive and moving away from what she sees as terrible sexist western culture. Bye bye beauty contests, Dart girls, Formula 1 girls etc

Then next paragraph she says it is not only OK but that it should be allowed to happen that the sexist islamic culture be given priority over normal NZ'ers at the pool in Porirua.

Make your mind up Rosemary: are you for or against sexist cultures? or are you actually motivated by something else?

Hmmmm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104523104/well-do...

Yea I'm not against her viewpoint overall, even if it is apparently biased due to her own insecurity around wearing less clothing, and her blindness to the options available to her (people wear rash vests and all sorts when swimming these days if they feel conscious about it, there are no rules saying you have to wear a bikini or speedos!).

But when she brings up the issue at the end with muslim women wanting pools to be attended by one s*x for a period of time each week, then she is coming across as pretty hypocritical. Does she want progress or not???

Sounds like she'd prefer a return to the days of measuring mini-skirts at the beach. 

What the heck is a rash vest? even just reading the name makes me feel itchy.

Yes Rosemary does come across as rather confused and hypocritical.

Western Patriarchy =  Male dominated western culture is evil and must be condemned in the strongest terms. Stand up women and take your power back! 

Islamic Patriarchy = Male dominated islamic culture is fine, we just have to make allowances for their ingrained sexism, hey its their cultural right to treat women as second class citizens and if you say otherwise you're a bigot and a racist :)

Pretty much!

Also a "rash vest" is basically just a t shirt made of synthetic material, it looks like a wetsuit top but isn't. Parents put their kids in them to prevent sunburn, adults tend to wear them if they are a little self-conscious. At a guess I'd say it's called a rash vest because it was probably designed for surfing/bodyboarding initially. 

Rash vests were for wearing under wetsuits while surfing/bodyboarding. The older neoprene used to rub around the neckline so the shirt has a collar that comes up and over to prevent this happening.

As people became "sunsmart" they they used them for protection for long times in the water when wetsuits weren't require.

I still think the best form of "rash vest" is to cover your neck in Vasoline! OLD SCHOOL!

Trigger Warning

has Trump earned his Nobel Peace Prize? 

Does Kim still needs to get a better barber? 

Frankie Says: Winter is Coming be Prepared Stay Safe NZ