Things that piss you off...

A couple of things though.

First the title does colour the piece, a lot.  the first thing going into it is "this writer is going to shark on my city because...".  It's classic Stuff outrage bait, they want the snarky trolly comments as it gets them hits, and they know a bias and "outrageous" headline gets more clicks and more outrage.

Also while it sucks to be in your situation, needing and wanting a seat, lets not shark on the people who have been shark on from the other side.

In my only a decade here I have had two incidents I can remember off the top of my head. when I first moved to Welly I was a young buck with all of the innocence and the optimism in the world.  In the first couple of months someone on crutches got on to the bus so I offered them my seat.  They want fudgeing ballistic at me, they said stuff like "how pathetic are you that you feel the need to help the poor crippled man, I can do shark on my own and if I want your seat Ill ask rather than being put down as helpless in public", being a long time ago I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember feeling like a small minded little dick head for assuming that my seat may help him more than me.

The issue isn't just "You’re going to let a little pride get in the way of being a good person? You’re not really trying then are you?".  The issue was I felt like a scummy piece of shark who hid away in my corner for the rest of the trip.  I have only felt that bad a few times in my life, and genuinely believed after that interaction that offering up my seat to someone was telling them that they are too weak to stand and to pathetic to ask.  what else was I supposed to believe, that in that interaction the person was wrong about how they felt by my interaction.?

So from that I learned that trying to be nice can offend people, and to avoid offending I shouldn't offer assistance unless it is my job to do so.

Over the years I would very occasionally offer a seat up but I would always say "I'm getting off at the next stop, would you like my seat?", and then get off no matter how far away from my stop I was because I was too scared to be yelled at in public for being ignorant again.  Hell one time I walked a few blocks in really bad (by wellington standards) wind and rain int he same zone so it cost me the same, just so I could offer that little bit of assistance without the risk of being berated in public.

Pregnant women weren't on my list because I didn't quite get how much pain they can be in and thought it would be condescending to offer as I incorrectly believed they were able bodied, until my partner was pregnant and I learned just how permanently uncomfortable they can be.

So a couple of years ago a heavily pregnant woman gets on a bus, looking uncomfortable as all hell standing.  I offered her my seat and I shark you not she says to me (not yelling, but still plenty of people could hear), "oh look at the big hero, coming to save the damsel in distress, does it make you feel good about yourself to help a woman you think its too weak to handle the world for herself? I can stand but maybe this kid who has been waiting for longer would like your seat" gesturing to a teenager in school uniform. There was some other BS in there about me being sexist as well but those words were the ones that stuck with me.

I couldn't even respond I was such a strong mix of fury at the rude bitch and ashamed for offending her by offering assistance.

So whats the moral of the story?  Now I offer no assistance because based on interactions it can offend people to offer, and I don't want to offend people by being a sexist pig and offering a seat.  

I get that you're injured and uncomfortable and need to vent about how strangers didn't offer you thing, but maybe you should ask.

Those strangers don't know how much pain you are in, and they don't know your world views.  Sure some probably are lazy and don't want to give up their seats, but some may have injuries you can't see, or might have had an interaction with someone I dealt with and may not want to offend you.

Lets think about that for a moment again.  You may be criticizing people for not offering up a seat if they are in pain, OR because they may not want to offend you.  You don't know how many of them are just dicks, and how many have read the crap on the internet, or seen these interactions, or been in one of these interactions, and are trying to be nice by not making an assumption about your needs based only on what they see.

So to put it very simply, people who appear to be in need can fudge right off if they are going to write passive aggressive articles instead of just asking.  I am happy to give my seat up to people in need but only they know how much pain they are in so they need to initiate the discussion and fudgeing ask.

Sorry for the angry rant but this really bothers me, people just assuming that the lame excuses they have are the only reasons fopr people not doing what they want.

Looking for a new job.

Let's swap.

I tend to disagree with you on many points - and this is a Wellington issue as it was experienced in Wellington. I tried to get the title changed, Stuff wouldn't. 

Let me just dissect a few of your points...

• "...lets not shark on the people who have been shark on from the other side."

I have offered my seat up plenty of times, been turned down or even had someone hassle me about it. It's not going to stop me offering as people who do that are int he minority. I'd rather continue to help than lets a few miserable people change me as a person

• "...need to vent about how strangers didn't offer you thing, but maybe you should ask."

Should I need to ask? It's kind of the point that I shouldn't. People should just see someone who is incapacitated to some degree and they should want to help. I think the tone of the article wasn't that I was feeling sorry for myself, rather that it had made me more aware of the fact people just don't bother to offer to help people in the situations I witnessed. The problem with many people is that they tend to whinge so much, that they see an opinion that differs from their own OR is counter to what they believe and perceive that person to be whingeing as well. I see it as raising awareness to hopefully (even if a small amount of hope) make a poor situation better. 

• "...but some may have injuries you can't see, or might have had an interaction with someone I dealt with and may not want to offend you"

This is possible but of the 50 people sitting who had a view of the lady with a walking stick, a large portion had injuries or previous bad experiences offering up seats? I'm sorry but that's rubbish.It was a majority of laziness.

• "...So to put it very simply, people who appear to be in need can fudge right off if they are going to write passive aggressive article.."

Possibly one of the worst things I've read on the internet, ever and I've been in the Arsenal forum. If no-one took the time to talk about these issues, debate them and discuss them things will likely just get worse and worse - chances are they probably will but screw it if i'm going to sit around, shrug and not try to influence a few people here and there to TRY and make things a bit better.

I'm sorry that you've had a couple of bad experiences and that this has made you bitter and twisted over this kind of thing but I tend to believe people are mostly good and just need a prod now and again. You've given every excuse in the world as to why not to help someone, but very little insight in what you would to make things better.

Ill tackle your stuff the same way:

• "...lets not shark on the people who have been shark on from the other side."

I have offered my seat up plenty of times, been turned down or even had someone hassle me about it. It's not going to stop me offering as people who do that are int he minority. I'd rather continue to help than lets a few miserable people change me as a person"

 - Who I am as a person is defined by my experiences in my life.  Some of those are people reacting badly to me doing things, and as such a generally try to avoid doing those things again.

People were offended by me assuming they may need my seat.  I chose to stop assuming things about people based on what I see so as to not offend people again.

Just to reiterate.  I don't offer my seat as doing so offended people.  Lets reiterate that.  The problem is people not offering seats, the cause of that can be people not wanting to offend people.  you are saying to people like me that my decision to try to avoid making assumptions about people based on nothing but what I see is a problem.

Not only that you are saying its a Wellington problem that people like me don't want to offend people by making assumptions about that.

Maybe your article should have been about how people sharkting on people just trying to be nice is causing cynicism among people that would otherwise try to do the right thing.

• ""...need to vent about how strangers didn't offer you thing, but maybe you should ask."

Should I need to ask? It's kind of the point that I shouldn't." 

YES.  You wanted something, and are criticizing how someone didn't assume you wanted it and ask if you want it.  

I don't want to offend people so I let the people that have the full story, who know how much pain they are or aren't in, and know they want it to address the situation.  I'm not going to assume that you need something using.  You are informed and able to use your mouth, you can ask.  I will very likely give it up, depending on the circumstances.

• ""...but some may have injuries you can't see, or might have had an interaction with someone I dealt with and may not want to offend you"

This is possible but of the 50 people sitting who had a view of the lady with a walking stick, a large portion had injuries or previous bad experiences offering up seats? I'm sorry but that's rubbish.It was a majority of laziness."

You assume?  or did you ask them?  Are you making conclusions based on guesses or facts?  I don't know so I wont come to a conclusion about those people but as I didn't see anything in your pieces indicating you did I'm challenging it because your comments are directed at the lot, not the offending individuals.  E.g. you refer to specific people making eye contact and looking away.  surely you at a minimum spoke to them so you could understand why they didn't, is it because they are lazy?  did they just get berated by someone for offering assistance minutes before your first encounter? I don't know, do you?

""...So to put it very simply, people who appear to be in need can fudge right off if they are going to write passive aggressive article.."

Possibly one of the worst things I've read on the internet, ever and I've been in the Arsenal forum."

That is really bad if you cut off the last bit.  I said people can fudge off if they are going to write a passive aggressive article INSTEAD of just asking.  If you ask, I will very likely stand up.  If you choose to stand there and write an article about the mean people who didn't make assumptions about you, who may have been happy to give you their seat if they asked.  

So one of the worst things you have read on the internet (with the context of the whole post) is that someone who is avoiding doing things they have done to offend people, while willing to do that thing if someone asks, who is frustrated by people writing passive aggressive articles about how they shouldn't have to ask for something they want and that strangers should correctly assess and assume what they want and then supply it.  

"I'm not sure how much clearer I can be about the headline..."

I am specifically referring to the comments section in that post.  So where in the comments section do you clearly state that Stuff wrote the headline and you don't necessarily think the issue is exclusive to Wellington, you just know you have experienced it in Wellington?  

I may have missed it but if you didn't say that then you are allowing the shark cycle to continue as I have previously stated the title is part of the article and people shouldn't have to assume that you only wrote part of the article.

"but I tend to believe people are mostly good and just need a prod now and again."  And I am trying to do good by not doing an action that I know from first hand experience offends people, I am still very willing to give up my seat but am allowing someone with more information to make the decision as me assuming can offend them. 

You have the opposite view, its better to offend people so that someone who likely has the ability to talk doesn't have to ask for what they want.  I think that's wrong and shaming people like me who are trying to do good and not upset people by having a stranger come up to them and say something offensive doesn't help, it just makes them angry.

Just look at it this way:

Reading that I am being told that I should offend people so that someone who can ask for my seat doesn't have to.  If those people asked for the seat then I wouldn't have to offend anyone and they would admittedly use some kilojoules and effort to ask, but they have that ability, the people I offend by approaching them asking if they need help don't have the ability to not be asked by me as the thing that offends them is 100% in my control.

In the context of life I will always give help to someone who asks for it if I can.  I missed out on a job which would have been my hard fought first step in the industry (it was delayed by 6 months by not getting this job) because a car broke down and their emergency lights came on in the middle of the road.  I offered help as I saw the lights coming on as a need for assistance.  I then missed out on the job because the boss deemed the reasoning not good enough and I would be unreliable.  I never looked back with regret on that as I always try to do the right thing.

The problem is you are telling me offending strangers is the right thing.  I am saying people who have the ability to talk asking for help when they want it is the right thing which is one the worst things you have read on the internet.  so sorry I'm not going to keep doing somehting I know offends people to save you the inconvenience of asking.

This is going nowhere guys, agree to disagree eh?

Think the problem is that some people are dicks.

#unavoidable

but clearly there are exceptions. He said he even walked in the rain to offer someone a seat without offending them. 

As I said earlier, it's a polite thing to do but nobody should expect it. With obvious exceptions, your example of old woman with crutches or whatever being one of them. If it's that clear and obvious that they're struggling then the benefit of giving up your seat outweighs the risk of offending them. 

Looking for a new job.

Pretty much.

The issue is I don't want to risk offending people, why should their day be shark because I made an assumption about their needs?

So in the case with the old lady it is very likely I would try to give her my seat, but to avoid offending her because I wouldn't make all the assumptions Leigh made about her based on her appearance (I don't know if she struggles "to get to work, to do day to day tasks around the house, to make various hospital and doctors appointments, to do the things they enjoy in life, to not let it effect them emotionally, professionally and physically") I would likely do my usual walk or something, or make up a lie that my leg is cramping and so I want to stand or some shark.

But based on someone in a moon boot, who wants to be offered a seat but asking is just too much darn work, I don't feel bad not initiating that engagement, as there is a risk I will offend them, and the option is available for someone who isnt too lazy to ask.

This is going nowhere guys, agree to disagree eh?

Think the problem is that some people are dicks.

#unavoidable

Says fair enough to someone saying agree to disagree guys because its going nowhere fast, responds to a different persons post, I've decided this is the same as saying "I'm going to drop it" and am criticizing him for not doing what I've decided his words mean.

FTFY

I think it's a polite thing to do, but it in no way should be expected (unless there is some obvious reason the person will have difficulty standing - like they're blind, holding a baby, have a disability of some kind, are fragile etc). 

There was a time I had back to back 12 hour+ days of mayhem at work, I was knackered, could barely walk to the bus, was falling asleep on the aisle seat. A guy who was about 50-60, who could quite capably stand by himself, walked up to me and yelled because I didn't offer him my seat. Others started having a go at me too (including some people who had seats themselves funnily enough), eventually one person who wanted to feel superior to me said "*I'll* give you my seat sir, not all of us are disrespectful" and a few people even clapped. 

It was actually mental. What right did that guy who could quite capably stand have to embarrass me like that and expect a seat just because he is older? None. 

To be honest i'm amazed it wasn't posted online in some capcity. Either by A) The person who gave their seat up, trying to white knight all over the shop pretending to be some sort of hero, B) The 50-60 year old, spouting all sorts of nonsense about how disrespectful you are, and by extension every young person is these days, or C) A third party witness mouthing off about how outraged they were by the whole thing.

Of course any of these three would have people falling over themselves in the comments section about how offended they are, because it's 2016 and everyone is offended by something everywhere.

Wut?!

Sorry I will explain.  I didn't say I'm going to drop it, Southern Jeff is saying I did.

I then responded to someone else's post, not the person who I was arguing with.

Southern Jeff was criticizing me for saying I will drop it, then continuing the discussion.

I didn't say I was going to drop it, just that the post was fair enough.  Fair enough doesn't even mean I agree with it, just that it seems reasonable.

for example you said keen to move on, then responded to the next post in the thread.  would it be fair for me to say to you "Agrees to let it go, agree to disagree then 2 posts later............", I would say no.

Hopefully that has cleared it up for you.

Sorry I will explain.  I didn't say I'm going to drop it, Southern Jeff is saying I did.

I then responded to someone else's post, not the person who I was arguing with.

Southern Jeff was criticizing me for saying I will drop it, then continuing the discussion.

I didn't say I was going to drop it, just that the post was fair enough.  Fair enough doesn't even mean I agree with it, just that it seems reasonable.

for example you said keen to move on, then responded to the next post in the thread.  would it be fair for me to say to you "Agrees to let it go, agree to disagree then 2 posts later............", I would say no.

Hopefully that has cleared it up for you.

I think everything that there was to say on this has been said, can we please move along.

If we move along, will you offer me your seat? I feel slightly unstable. 

Sometimes I wonder why people stop frequenting these forums. Then I read this .

What kinda job?

A permanent one... have just finished a 3 mth contract that went for 18 mths (lol gummint), am keen to get back to reality :)

Phoenix need a right back, a centerback. How old are you? And what sort of work are you interested in? I know a place with a lot of vacancies and they are having an evening next Tuesday for information.

Amway?

Amway?

Where i live the front six seats on the buses are for those with mobility problems mothers with prams etc.I never sit there myself.

Where i live the front six seats on the buses are for those with mobility problems mothers with prams etc.I never sit there myself.

These six seats face the aisle of the bus and fold up to accommodate prams and wheelchairs.

But i often see people just get up and move to the back of the bus without saying anything when someone gets on who looks like they need a seat.

An option to offer your seat but not verbally.The person can sit or not sit.

It also pisses me off when there's standing room only on the bus but people won't move down the aisle so everyone gets jammed up at the front

I am quite regularly down near the back of the bus even with empty seats around the back, but one person decided to stand by the back door, and then no one goes past them...

Yeah Ive seen that. Sometimes I stand when there are seats free because on most buses I'm too tall to sit comfortably in most seats, but I always let people past me in the aisle and point out empty seats at the back if there are some 

Awww ain't you a sweetums ?

Yeah Ive seen that. Sometimes I stand when there are seats free because on most buses I'm too tall to sit comfortably in most seats, but I always let people past me in the aisle and point out empty seats at the back if there are some